1980 Seville Purchase

[Robert G. Smits]

Looking at a low mileage 1980 Seville that has the 6 liter with throttle body FI.  It does not have the vinyl top covering. Any thoughts on the car and motor appreciated.  Plan to use it as a tour car for AACA and VMCCA tours.  My usage will probably be less than 5000 miles/year..  Thanks

[rocketraider]

Biggest thing I'd be concerned about are its rudimentary electronic engine controls and to a lesser extent all its electronic gadgets when they start failing after 40+ years.

 

Other than that the Seville was the finest and most technologically advanced car GM (or about anyone else) had to offer in 1980. Yes, the rear styling can be polarizing, but it IS distinctive. And isn't that part of what owning a Cadillac is about?

 

The TBI 368 is still a better engine than the HT4100 or the V8-6-4, both of which were sprung on Cadillac clientele before they were ready for prime time. Then the General spent the money the other Divisions were making to try and salvage the mess it had made of Cadillac, while the others got their R&D money slashed.

 

Oh, a lot of 80s GM executives should have served prison time for the things they did..

 

[John_S_in_Penna]

Robert, I have a 1980 Cadillac Seville, too.

In my opinion, the 1980 is the best year to have

because of its reliable 368-cubic inch (6.0 liter)

engine.  In 1981 only, the 368 came with the

variable-displacement feature, and Cadillac called it

the V8-6-4.  From 1982 through 1985, the engine was

the less-revered 4.1-liter.

 

Mine has a "carriage top," which must have been a

dealer's add-on, because factory literature says the

carriage tops were first available in 1982.

 

Attached are 2 pictures of mine:

 

Edited November 9, 2022 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[avgwarhawk]

Smooth riding GM. Valor interior. HEI ignition. TBI is reliable from my recollection. 

[EmTee]

Like boat-tail Rivieras, I hated these when new.  Today, both are cars I wouldn't mind having in my garage.  Have I officially become my father..? 

[Pfeil]

Pretty sure a California Seville Gasoline engine is a 350 Olds.

[Frank DuVal]

5 hours ago, avgwarhawk said:

Valor interior.

All I have seen were leather. But that's not that many!

 

Funny, no one mentioned the non-electronic controlled engine of those years😁 I have an 81 Elegante now parts car with one of those. No power but long lasting Oldsmobile bottom end, good for 300K. Oh, you said 1980, nope, that was the last of the cast cranks, not so long lasting....

[TAKerry]

I love these cars and the square back ones as well!  I was at a car show late summer and the design team of the bustle back seville was there. Neat hearing about the behind scene stuff.

[EmTee]

55 minutes ago, TAKerry said:

I was at a car show late summer and the design team of the bustle back seville was there. Neat hearing about the behind scene stuff.

Inquiring minds want to know...  So, was there discontent among the design team regarding the 'bustle-back', or were they all on-board with it?  It was definitely polarizing at the time, as was the boat-tail Riviera...

 

The original Seville was such a hit for Cadillac that I wonder what led them to gamble on the redesign.

 

Edited November 10, 2022 by EmTee (see edit history)

[rocketraider]

1980 was a complete redesign of the car. It had left its Nova origin behind and moved to the FWD E platform. Guess they figured while they were in there... like the best of Cadillacs a 1980 Seville was not a car for an introvert!

 

Gotta say it was and is hard to improve on the 76-79 design, in spite of being a Nova underneath. But the 75-79 GM X-body was the best of that breed too.

[Pfeil]

35 minutes ago, rocketraider said:

1980 was a complete redesign of the car. It had left its Nova origin behind and moved to the FWD E platform. Guess they figured while they were in there... like the best of Cadillacs a 1980 Seville was not a car for an introvert!

 

Gotta say it was and is hard to improve on the 76-79 design, in spite of being a Nova underneath. But the 75-79 GM X-body was the best of that breed too.

And the X body underneath was 2nd generation F body        .     It was done to get the handling and save money. Police liked it too.

If I was in the market for a Seville, it would be 1975-79

Edited November 10, 2022 by Pfeil (see edit history)

[60FlatTop]

Robert, I have read enough of your posts and think it shouldn't be too hard for you to arrange to side into an early Rolls-Royce Silver Shadow or Shadow II. Make a couple of calls and arrange to just sit in one. Then get into the Seville. I guaranty you are going to really smile.

 

It is a good car. I would pick the 368 in either version. I know how easy it is to shut off the variable displacement.

[Paul Dobbin]

I bought one used in 1987, a 1981 Seville 8/6/4.   Towed our 1978 6 meter Argosy (A painted Airstream) up and down the Blue Ridge Parkway.

That 368 V8 had plenty of towing power and tons of Luxury.   When the clear coat failed, I two toned it in white & silver and added a red stripe just below the side stainless trim.    A friend just bought back his father's 80 Seville after 31 years, still looks perfect, can't find the picture &$#@ 

 

 

 

 

 

[rocketraider]

Had the cylinder deactivation system been disabled? Though I'd think with the Airstream behind it the CDS wouldn't have operated.

[Frank DuVal]

11 hours ago, 60FlatTop said:

I know how easy it is to shut off the variable displacement.

Yep, just unplug the four solenoids!👍 15 second repair.

[misterc9]

I knew guys who deactivated their V864. They undid the high gear switch. My Fleetwood Brougham always worked perfectly so I never undid it.

[TAKerry]

21 hours ago, Pfeil said:

And the X body underneath was 2nd generation F body        .     It was done to get the handling and save money. Police liked it too.

If I was in the market for a Seville, it would be 1975-79

I think X body was the designation of the body style? while the Firebird (and Camaro) are F bodies. There is no 'X' frame on an F body only a front stubframe (some call it a sub frame). The only thing that would be shared would be the stub frame? and I have never heard before that this part is compatible with the Nova (X body). 

 

23 hours ago, EmTee said:

Inquiring minds want to know...  So, was there discontent among the design team regarding the 'bustle-back', or were they all on-board with it?  It was definitely polarizing at the time, as was the boat-tail Riviera...

 

The original Seville was such a hit for Cadillac that I wonder what led them to gamble on the redesign.

 

The show had Cadillac as a featured Marque. The designers spoke on a wide variety of topics regarding design works. The designer of the XLR. 

[TAKerry]

2 minutes ago, TAKerry said:

I think X body was the designation of the body style? while the Firebird (and Camaro) are F bodies. There is no 'X' frame on an F body only a front stubframe (some call it a sub frame). The only thing that would be shared would be the stub frame? and I have never heard before that this part is compatible with the Nova (X body). 

 

The show had Cadillac as a featured Marque. The designers spoke on a wide variety of topics regarding design works. The designer of the XLR was also present.

 

[Paul Dobbin]

17 hours ago, rocketraider said:

Had the cylinder deactivation system been disabled? Though I'd think with the Airstream behind it the CDS wouldn't have operated.

   I didn't deactivate anything.   The power demand for towing kept it in V8 Mode almost all the time.  Occasionallyit would got to 6 cylinders.

[Pfeil]

X & F refer to the body platform not a style. Then we have what is called by GM the "special X" which turned out to be the "K" body or Seville.

X and F bodies share the same subframe, suspension, steering, brakes, drivetrain, rear axle components, my 76 Olds Omega-X body has T/A springs, and sway bars ft & rear and a 9C1 Police Nova variable quick ratio high effort steering box like some Z-28 & T/A's got.

The hot ticket for enthusiast is to use the Seville five on five bolt pattern Seville disc brakes on the X-F bodied cars for more swept area and better heat sink. Lots of interchangeability here if you know what to look for. 

[rocketraider]

3 hours ago, TAKerry said:

I think X body was the designation of the body style? while the Firebird (and Camaro) are F bodies. There is no 'X' frame on an F body only a front stubframe (some call it a sub frame). The only thing that would be shared would be the stub frame? and I have never heard before that this part is compatible with the Nova (X body). 

Yup. X was the GM body platform designation for NOVA and 1st gen Seville. Not 100% sure the F and 70s X subframe are identical but most of the suspension interchanges. With that in mind a GM X body can be made to handle as if it were on rails.

[Pfeil]

9 hours ago, rocketraider said:

Yup. X was the GM body platform designation for NOVA and 1st gen Seville. Not 100% sure the F and 70s X subframe are identical but most of the suspension interchanges. With that in mind a GM X body can be made to handle as if it were on rails.

Correct on suspension changes, I think mounting to body is different (not in dimension-but hard points) and core support and bumper shock mount may be different.

Edited November 12, 2022 by Pfeil (see edit history)

[Robert G. Smits]

Thanks to all who replied.  What an education.  The car is in an estate and probably won't be available until late spring of early summer.  I have only seen photos but plan to purchase it because of the low mileage and condition. Back in 1985 I owned a 81 Seville diesel and loved the car.  Transmission went out at 129K and it was sold.  My wife drove a 79 Olds 98 sedan diesel to 120K before she traded it.  We must have been lucky.

[rocketraider]

Everyone I've known who got good service and miles out of their Olds Diesels used the best quality fuels, oils and filters they could get and changed them all routinely. In some cases adding extra fuel filters and water separators. These cars also saw little to no short trip driving.

 

Granted these folks had previous Diesel experience and didn't buy into GM's "less maintenance" hype, which a lot of owners interpreted as "no maintenance".

[5219]

People forget now, but the bustleback was a winner in its time.  They sold them in big numbers. Lincoln and the Chrysler Imperial both copied the rear end. It was always a polarizing design. I can remember people calling it "The hunchback of Detroit".

[60FlatTop]

21 hours ago, rocketraider said:

There is no 'X' frame on an F body only a front stubframe (some call it a sub frame).

I just bought this 1948 Chrysler Saratoga through an estate only knowing it had a Chevy 350 engine. The car has been sitting for an unknown nunber of years When it was delivered one of the front brakes was locked up. What a surprize when I pulled the 5 on 5 wheel and found a disc brake rotor and caliper stuck. It has a full X body forward steering box Nova/Camaro frame. And it is a very nice conversion. Knowing these Chrysler products I had already cinsidered a disc brake conversion. Turned out every modification was one I would have approved of myself. I am very happy with the car and preparing to rebuild the (also stuck) early 350 engine this winter.

 

It's my style right down to the crossover pipe and quiet muffler.

 

 

[TAKerry]

My brother bought a Cutlass diesel new in the early 80's. Really nice car, he even ordered the gauge package to make it a bit sportier! Car ran great he never had a problem with it. If I remember right the price of diesel was significantly less than gas at the time!! 

[Pfeil]

1 hour ago, TAKerry said:

My brother bought a Cutlass diesel new in the early 80's. Really nice car, he even ordered the gauge package to make it a bit sportier! Car ran great he never had a problem with it. If I remember right the price of diesel was significantly less than gas at the time!! 

That is correct. The price of diesel fuel was lower because it takes less steps in the refining process than gasoline to make. Makes you wonder why the price is so high today in comparison to gasoline. 

Edited November 12, 2022 by Pfeil (see edit history)

[JACK M]

38 minutes ago, Pfeil said:

Makes you wonder why the price is so high today in comparison to gasoline. 

Sure does.

I recall gas wars in the late 50s or very early 60s.

Gas was less than a quarter and diesel was a dime.

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

I had a 1982 Olds Cutlass 4 door with the Diesel.    36 mpg highway.  My wife and a son could not seem to get it to start.  They kept killing the glo plug preheating system.

 I had no problem and liked the car.

 

   In those earlier days, diesel was a "by product" at the refineries.  Now days it is a cleaner premium product much more expensive to produce.

 

  Ben

[Robert G. Smits]

3 hours ago, 60FlatTop said:

 

It's my style right down to the crossover pipe and quiet muffler

What a great find.  Can't wait to see the finished product.  You can't beat being in the right place at the right time.  Reminds me of hearing about a Cadillac Convertible stored in a rural Iowa airplane hanger.  My only regret was that I didn't also but the pristine 1963 Avanti that was also stored there.  The owner wanted 8K and I walked. 

[Robert G. Smits]

14 hours ago, rocketraider said:

fuel filters and water separators.

The early Olds diesels did not have a water separator if my memory is correct.  What were they thinking???

[rocketraider]

1 hour ago, Pfeil said:

Makes you wonder why the price is so high today in comparison to gasoline. 

Years ago, only tractor-trailers, heavy trucks and Diesel-electric trains used it. With more Diesel passenger cars and light trucks there's more demand for it.🤑

 

It's also marked as a "dirty" fuel, so modern Diesels not only have to contend with the high fuel cost but also the expense of that DEF stuff.🤑

 

As Diesel/#2 fuel oil is also a prime home heating fuel in many areas, that makes for more expense, especially when refinery output is manipulated. 🤑

 

Add in the price of everything including fuel is tied to cost of fuel used to transport it.🤑

 

Follow the money. 

[rocketraider]

20 minutes ago, Robert G. Smits said:

The early Olds diesels did not have a water separator if my memory is correct.  What were they thinking???

They gambled and lost trying to meet cost constraints. Later ones incorporated a water detector in the fuel tank, but no means of separating it out of the fuel.

 

The whole GM passenger car/light truck Diesel program was rushed. The Olds V8 had the strongest bottom end, and Olds Engineering was widely regarded as the best in GM, so the Division was tasked with building the Diesel on short notice.

 

The trouble was the Olds engineers had no Diesel experience, knew little to nothing about them, and the corporation wouldn't allow any cross-development with GM's own Detroit Diesel Allison Division, which had been building Diesels since 1938.

 

Things could have been much different if the bean counters hadn't gambled and lost. Diesel engines by design should be overbuilt, but the GM financial people didn't understand that. They may have understood finance, but they certainly did not understand GM's product.

[bryankazmer]

The concept of converting a gas design to diesel, instead of an engine designed for the purpose, was inherently flawed.  Typical of GM in this era, as they suffered a number of half-baked launches.  Dealers in some cases did engine swaps back to gas to sell used diesels.

[Pfeil]

Demand for, https://www.eia.gov/

 

In 2021 the U.S. consumed 46.82 billion gallons of diesel

In 2021 the U.S. consumed 134.83 billion gallons of gasoline

Edited November 12, 2022 by Pfeil (see edit history)

[NailheadBob]

My brother N Law had a gas station back in the "Diesel" Era days, a mechanic rented one of his bays, and all he did was GM Diesel repairs, just one of his accounts was McDonalds hamburger corporate in Oak Brook, IL. office, they had a ton of GM Diesel cars, plus when people drove by gas station and seen all those Diesel cars they would stop in to make appointment. Plenty of Diesel parts cars, and conversions of junked Diesel cars to gasoline motors, after 5 years of Diesel repairs the mechanic retired and moved to Florida, was a good paying gig. OH and my brother N law made out pretty good to.

 

Bob

[Bryan G]

A friend owned a couple 350 diesels and then an early 6.2L. He bought them from a local full-line GMC dealer with decades of experience handling oil burners. I'd say that made the difference. 

 

Into the 80s, the vast majority of diesel engines were in semi-trucks and newer ag equipment. Around my small town, all the school buses, all the farm trucks, all the fire engines, were gas. Late in that decade mom bought a used Mercedes 300SD. The only place to fill it up was a pump way off to itself a the end of the lot at a two-bit filling station. Now? 30 year old woman drive Supercrew Power Stroke F250s to Starbucks, and there's a convenience store with 20 pumps and you can get diesel at any one of 'em.

 

I have to admit, the bustle-backs always sort of hurt my eyes! But of all the new domestic cars available that year, they were a fine choice. I'd trust one on a long trip, something I can't say for many American-made cars from that era.

[60FlatTop]

16 hours ago, Pfeil said:

Demand for, https://www.eia.gov/

Better stay away from that site. Especially the export section. It could make one have visions in their sleep. Or while awake.

 

[Robert G. Smits]

18 hours ago, rocketraider said:

Later ones incorporated a water detector in the fuel tank, but no means of separating it

If my 82 year old my memory is correct didn't GM issue a service bulletin on how to drain water from the furl tank.  Purchased the 79 new from a Des Moines dealer who sold a ton of diesels and draining water from the fuel tank was added to routine service at some time.  There was also a up charge for HD diesel oil.