Graham Man Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 Came across this body tag on a Graham... I would think it would have a number if it were real... doesn't look like any others I have seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMoneyPit Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 Especially when it’s dated… I would think it’s a fantasy plate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K8096 Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 Let’s see a picture of the car the tag is on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Man Posted October 28, 2022 Author Share Posted October 28, 2022 https://www.mecum.com/lots/DA0922-522006/1930-graham-paige-roadster/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 🤐 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 That is an attractive car. It needs a full history to bring good money. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 12 minutes ago, alsancle said: That is an attractive car. It needs a full history to bring good money. Gonna be interesting to see if the story is history, or pure fiction. 🤔 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malo48 Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 For some reason, the fonts (especially the lowest line in italicized) look too modern to my eyes. It's nicely done but just looks new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 Pretty cool looking car, but it appears as though the body and chassis were not married from the get-go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Man Posted October 28, 2022 Author Share Posted October 28, 2022 What bothers me the most on the car other than it is a standard Graham roadster body is the double belt line on the door, only the small sixes had this detail all the eight only had one body line. 1930 GP Roadster Small six (GP body) 1930 GR roadster Eight cylinder car 827 (Briggs Body) Notice the door body lines, the blue roadster is an eight.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K8096 Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, West Peterson said: Pretty cool looking car, but it appears as though the body and chassis were not married from the get-go. Thank you. I had never seen a Graham that looked like a 734 Packard roadster before. Edited October 28, 2022 by K8096 (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 (edited) Bad photo or is there something really odd about this car? Edited October 28, 2022 by 1937hd45 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 27 minutes ago, 1937hd45 said: Bad photo or is there something really odd about this car? Either the hood is not fully closed or the cowl and the hood do not map to each other correctly. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Man Posted October 28, 2022 Author Share Posted October 28, 2022 anybody recognize the hood? Not Graham, we think the engine is Studebaker This is a Graham hood, notice the squared off raise around the vents? and 4 louvers, the blue car has 5 and rounded corners...no chrome tabs on the Graham On the hood alignment the hood dose not look latched but the cowl top line dose not match the hood correctly... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Man Posted October 28, 2022 Author Share Posted October 28, 2022 (edited) Not a Graham hood Edited October 28, 2022 by Graham Man (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Man Posted October 28, 2022 Author Share Posted October 28, 2022 Just noticed the front mounted water pump in the block, behind the fan... what year did that start? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 Noticed it is right hand drive, that always raised a flag, to check for welded to rim wheel spokes and a miss mash of parts to keep things rolling. Once saw an L29 Cord with Model T Ford U joints in the front end. The belt line in hoods and bodies should be level, not form a V where they meet at the cowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne sheldon Posted October 29, 2022 Share Posted October 29, 2022 Right hand driven means almost anything is possible, right or wrong? It also makes everything questionable. Anybody confirmed what the engine is? When one of our Graham experts is questioning the engine? And the hose doesn't line up in an obvious way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max4Me Posted October 29, 2022 Share Posted October 29, 2022 I don’t know if it’s my old eyes, but on the shield in the middle of the tag, the letter ‘R’ in GRAHAM looks like the letters ‘A’. Even enlarged it looks like an ‘A’ except for a tiny indentation on the right side. The stylized ‘H’ looks very much like an ‘A’ but does have a clear separation at the top. Is this common script for this car? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted October 29, 2022 Share Posted October 29, 2022 Looks like GAAAAM to me. Did anyone notice that the shape of the Logo matches the shape of the tail light, I like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_S_in_Penna Posted October 29, 2022 Share Posted October 29, 2022 32 minutes ago, Max4Me said: ...on the shield in the middle of the tag, the letter ‘R’ in GRAHAM looks like the letters ‘A’. 19 minutes ago, 1937hd45 said: Looks like GAAAAM to me. Excellent points. And the heads of the 3 men in the logo are flat and indistinct. To me, that's the mark of a poor copy; no manufacturer would show its logo so poorly. And no custom-body company would prepare its customer's logo with such poor workmanship. I think the sleuths on this thread have done a good job. It's clearly not original. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted October 29, 2022 Share Posted October 29, 2022 Car looks great…….too good. Some talented hands worked on this one. Of course, anything this good looking comes under 100 percent suspicion till proven. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Man Posted October 29, 2022 Author Share Posted October 29, 2022 Engine is close to 1931 Studebaker... head matches, water cover matches oil filter ports match... except this one has the external water pump. any Studebaker experts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnseeker Posted October 29, 2022 Share Posted October 29, 2022 I sold some literature not long ago from the early 30's and there were a few pieces in the batch that there were a few companies that had roadster bodies for sale. They produced them for certain manufacturers but had some extras and they were available new from the factory freight for something between 200 and 300 and they included the top and everything. Basically a complete swap body. Maybe this body is one of those? Unfortunately I don't have the sales sheets anymore, but they had pictures of the bodies as well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
58L-Y8 Posted October 29, 2022 Share Posted October 29, 2022 Pure, 'what's it' confectionary conglomeration, built to deceive. A Graham-Paige LeBaron roadster built from 'floor-sweeping". A tip-of-the-hat to Ed for the perfect characterization... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
58L-Y8 Posted October 29, 2022 Share Posted October 29, 2022 17 hours ago, Graham Man said: Not a Graham hood The 1930-'31 Hudson Great(er) Eights may be the source of the hood side panels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cole motor car lover Posted October 29, 2022 Share Posted October 29, 2022 I’m definitely not an expert at all when it comes to this stuff as we all know I mainly know about Cole cars. But going through my standard catalog of American cars 1805-1942 it says that graham Paige did use le baron bodies however I don’t know how many and still I don’t know if that changes anyones opinion on this car just thought I should share this. My apologies if it’s not anything you guys didn’t already know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Harper Posted October 29, 2022 Share Posted October 29, 2022 23 minutes ago, 58L-Y8 said: The 1930-'31 Hudson Great(er) Eights may be the source of the hood side panels. Sure looks like a match 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Harper Posted October 29, 2022 Share Posted October 29, 2022 (edited) 17 hours ago, Graham Man said: Here is the motor in a 1929 model 827 for comparison. I am no Graham-Paige expert so I have no clue what the differences would be from a 1929 to a 1930. Edited October 29, 2022 by Terry Harper (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 Bad transition between hood and cowl (I think A.J. mentioned that) What's the extra doo-hickey at the top? Unusual height of turtle deck. Most roadsters, that height is about half. As I said earlier, very cool looking car, but I I feel confident that someone was having a lot of fun making this up. I'd love to find out that it's real, but with Hudson hood doors, I would be surprised if it was so. In regard to the comment that it looks like a Packard Speedster.... the cowl is way too short. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 I wonder what the Coupe looked like, and does this Roadster have the chopped version of rear quarters. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Man Posted October 31, 2022 Author Share Posted October 31, 2022 OK... I think I have it... 1929 Graham-Paige 827 Chassis, fenders, running gear, headlights, grill (cut down); most likely a sedan 1929 Graham-Paige 615 Roadster body 1931 Studebaker 8 engine and transmission, could be a Graham (Borg Warner) not 1931 they had free wheel 1932 Hudson Great Eight hood Imitation LeBaron tag... Don't get me wrong, it is a great looking combination, most likely a great running and driving car. Just don't sell it as a LeBaron custom, call it what it is a great looking combination of a few cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 53 minutes ago, Graham Man said: OK... I think I have it... 1929 Graham-Paige 827 Chassis, fenders, running gear, headlights, grill (cut down); most likely a sedan 1929 Graham-Paige 615 Roadster body 1931 Studebaker 8 engine and transmission, could be a Graham (Borg Warner) not 1931 they had free wheel 1932 Hudson Great Eight hood Imitation LeBaron tag... Don't get me wrong, it is a great looking combination, most likely a great running and driving car. Just don't sell it as a LeBaron custom, call it what it is a great looking combination of a few cars. Which makes it a 1929-31-32 Bitsa (bit of this, bit of that), truly One of One.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrbartlett Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 Sure looks like a Packard fold-down trunk rack on the rear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne sheldon Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 It would be interesting to know the story behind this car. I know, just understanding the era, having seen several rotting survivors, and having read a dozen narratives of such things, that many hundreds of significant and likely thousands of lesser cars were "customized" back in their eras. Such things were done for many reasons. Sometimes just because "everybody needs a hobby"? Sometimes to create a fine automobile for oneself on the cheap using parts of damaged cars? Occasionally because someone had a cast-off body they liked and whatever chassis happened to be available? While it happened more often than we like to realize? That does not necessarily mean such cars are important historically. It does not make them truly special or valuable. And the fact that it "was done" back in those days does NOT without verifiable information and/or photos mean a car such as this was done "back in the day"! Maybe it was? Maybe it wasn't? It actually looks to be particularly well done, parts of a few cars integrated into a single whole. There are a couple things that almost don't fit well, but overall the look and workmanship appear good. For the right price? It could be a wonderful fun car to have for someone that cannot afford the real thing. It would look fantastic going down the highway! Great for a local "cars and coffee". But there are some groups one should avoid being seen with it? (We are a bunch of snobs? Aren't we 😁 ) Looking at the combination of parts, and the quality of the work? I would guess this car was not done back in the day. At that time, craftsmen were going hungry, and labor was cheap. I would expect an era custom to have more real custom work rather than refitting of available parts. But that is just my opinion. Frankly? I would prefer to have a good basic model T Ford, older restoration and well sorted. Or a nice 1920s Buick sedan would be great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Who knows, the car could have been converted into a tow truck at some time, and converted back to something closer to original. I've always like the old car to tow truck conversions. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vermontboy Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 Not all work done back in the day was done by craftsmen - posted this back in 2019 to show this kind of thing has been going on a long time. Sorry for the repost. All of this is nothing new - when I was a kid I bought a copy of Classic Cars and Antiques by Gottlieb and Bowman (1952) - I was fascinated by a chapter on how to buy a classic car - just one example - lots of cobbed up details. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 If you have the time, and wanna understand a classic example of something built in the 40s and 50s and then turned into something completely different in the present read this thread: 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 5 hours ago, Grimy said: Which makes it a 1929-31-32 Bitsa (bit of this, bit of that), truly One of One.... In our shop……….it’s not a Bitsa………..it would be called a Piza……… sxxt. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 A Bitsa only matters when the vehicle is worth about that same as a house in a nice neighborhood. Starting with a $20,000. war chest at Hershey you could buy all the bits to build a 1931 Ford Roadster. Spend the following year restoring it and win a First Junior AACA award at the next Hershey. NOBODY would care. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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