Rewiring a 1930 Rolls Royce 20/25.

[wayne sheldon]

And I thought it looked like hieroglyphics?

 

 

[Dandy Dave]

21 hours ago, rocketraider said:

Dave, have you lost your fear of a Rolls-Royce electrical system?🧐

Have no fear, Dandy Dave is here and on the job. I aint scared of no Roll Royce electrical nothing. Frustrated at times. 😬 But no fear.🤪 

[Dandy Dave]

More success. The wires are run from the fire wall to the rear in the conduit as they should be. From the right, (Near side) of the rear back though the conduit and crossed over to the left side, (Off Side). Looks as if only tail lights were originally on this car. The conduit is small back there and no room for any extra wires. Connection are single where they come out of the frame. Someone at some point added Duolamp's to this car in the rear. These are type B's. Most likely when they added signal lights to the car. Side lights on the top of the front fenders have had sockets replaced at one time to recieve 1157 duel filliment bulbs. Also must have been done when signals were added. It is going to stay that way as the signals and brake lights add safety to our modern highways. 

Edited August 31, 2022 by Dandy Dave (see edit history)

[edinmass]

 

 

Dandy Dave.........I notice the new wires going to the Autovac, be sure you have a heavy enough wire to operate it or you will under volt it. Of course it runs on less than 50 amps............so 14 gauge should be fine; and remember it's a positive earth wiring going to the unit. 😎

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dandy Dave]

58 minutes ago, edinmass said:

 

 

Dandy Dave.........I notice the new wires going to the Autovac, be sure you have a heavy enough wire to operate it or you will under volt it. Of course it runs on less than 50 amps............so 14 gauge should be fine; and remember it's a positive earth wiring going to the unit. 😎

 

 

 

 

 

 

Are you talking about the vacuum fuel pump Ed? This one is vacuum only. Or so I thought. I could hook it up to an Arc welder. Set on 50 Amps DC with reverse polarity and then watch it launch and explode. 🤪 But then how would I explain that move to the owners? 😵

Edited August 31, 2022 by Dandy Dave (see edit history)

[8E45E]

Rewiring this car still appears to be far easier than attempting to rewire a modern car. 

 

First, no 'retained voltage' items to be concerned about for alarms, airbags, and radios cars of this age never had.   Second, nothing electronic including fuel injection, lane change detection, which requires precise voltages and milliamp protocols to function. And no requirement for an OBDII outlet to perform diagnostics.

 

Craig

[rocketraider]

Oh my lord. Can you imagine a Rolls-Royce (or ANY British car for that matter) with all that electronic foolishness?😬

[60FlatTop]

"The level of perfection one can achieve is directly proportional to the number of times they are willing to do it over"

Julio

 

With the greatest emphasis on "willing".

 

And once you feel comfortable with the small one.

[60FlatTop]

On 8/30/2022 at 9:10 AM, Dandy Dave said:

I guess some old dogs just can't learn new tricks.

I taught this stuff for about 15 years at night after working all day. And every semester there was a "Ray Hall" in the back of the room who challenged every word I said.

 

Thanks "Ray Hall" preparing for you did wonders for my learning curve.

[Larry Schramm]

4 hours ago, edinmass said:

 

 

Dandy Dave.........I notice the new wires going to the Autovac, be sure you have a heavy enough wire to operate it or you will under volt it. Of course it runs on less than 50 amps............so 14 gauge should be fine; and remember it's a positive earth wiring going to the unit. 😎

 

If it is more towards the 50 amp continuous current draw, I would suggest a 10 gauge wire.  If there is a 50 amp start up surge and it settles in the 30 amp range 12 gauge wire would be fine.

[8E45E]

3 hours ago, rocketraider said:

Oh my lord. Can you imagine a Rolls-Royce (or ANY British car for that matter) with all that electronic foolishness?😬

Yes, actually.  Around 1986, Richard Langworth did a report about driving a top-of-the-line Austin Maestro with digital dash and voice synthesizer, which was popular at the time. He called it a "Joe Lucas in Darth Vader clothing".  If I remember right, the only way for the digital fuel gauge to reset itself properly was to fill the tank right up to 'full'.  Apparently, it malfunctioned on him because he did not fill it up completely one time, resulting in false readings, and the British accented female voice "Your Fuel Is Low" over and over.  Needless to say, he was NOT impressed with the car.

 

Craig 

[1937hd45]

5 hours ago, 60FlatTop said:

I taught this stuff for about 15 years at night after working all day. And every semester there was a "Ray Hall" in the back of the room who challenged every word I said.

 

Thanks "Ray Hall" preparing for you did wonders for my learning curve.

Who is or was "Ray Hall" ???? I did a Google search like I do with all unknown electrical terms and found nothing electrical. 

[JV Puleo]

9 hours ago, edinmass said:

Dandy Dave.........I notice the new wires going to the Autovac, be sure you have a heavy enough wire to operate it or you will under volt it. Of course it runs on less than 50 amps............so 14 gauge should be fine; and remember it's a positive earth wiring going to the unit. 😎

It's just a conventional vacuum tank...in fact, I replaced the main unit in one on a PII with a Stewart Warner from a teens Buick as an emergency repair once and it worked fine. I think Autovac must have licensed the design from Stewart Warner.

[Dandy Dave]

Proof that the wires are to the rear.

[Dandy Dave]

Also, If anyone is interested the wires came from here. Good company with cloth wire in the proper color combo's for Rolls Royce Autos. Lenths are more than enough. Everything matches the old wiring diagram we have on hand. Dandy Dave.

 

 

[EmTee]

How are you handling the turn signal wires that don't fit into the conduit?

[Dandy Dave]

6 hours ago, EmTee said:

How are you handling the turn signal wires that don't fit into the conduit?

There actually is dedicated color cloth wire for the turn signals that can be supplied by the wire company. We have bought the wires. They will be run down and wire tied to the frame/existing conduit. They were added most likely when the car was shipped here from England after the war and the way it would have been done. Trying to get the owner to spring for the vintage aluminum wire ties so that it is more period correct. They're on the expensive side at $4 buck a pop but what the hey. It is a Rolls Royce. Of course the brake lights need to feed to the signal harness to work correctly. The turn signal control is a Signal Stat model 800. Will post photos as I work through it. Dandy Dave 

Edited September 1, 2022 by Dandy Dave (see edit history)

[Restorer32]

For an encore how about you rebuild the brakes on a '64 Rolls.  Most complicated braking system we have ever encountered.  Not too many cars where you might have to remove the cam shaft to rebuild the brakes.

[Dandy Dave]

So I have encountered the dim, and flicker, mode on these Lucas bi-flex lights. 😁 This automobile has the dipper (low beam) option on this car. It is mounted in the instument board near the box. It had a power feed in and two seperate leads coming out as one would expect. The lights did turn on in the car when we got it but the dipper switch did not work. And there was only one wire running to the lights. There should be two, A black for the dipper mode, and a white for normal. I tried these lights out on a battery to see if the electro magnets did work and found they only work sometimes. 🙃 And when they do flip the light goes out. 😬. I believe due to a set of contact points on the bottom of the electro magnet. The prince of darkness strikes again. The wiring diagrham I have is for a car a few years newer and shows a foot switch. The lights I have also have single filliment bulbs. The wiring diagraham shows single filliment bulbs for cars with three lights and double for cars with two lights. Could use some help as to which lugs on the electromagnet the wires should run to. Also, it looks as though someone has put a bridge in the lights that maybe is not suppose to be there. Any thoughts Folks? 

   

Edited September 3, 2022 by Dandy Dave (see edit history)

[wayne sheldon]

The sound of crickets!

 

It appears to me, that the remaining old wire goes to the bulb filament, though a tenuous set of connections prone to corrosion problems?

From the photo, I can't tell where the "bridge" may be? The solenoid when on, and presumably holding the bulbs in "dipped" position, would pull a bit of amperage. So it may make sense that the fuse would protect the bulb's power if the draw became to much for the circuit to handle?

 

This is all speculation!

 

Maybe lights on powered to between the wire to the bulb and the fuse? And to "dip" the lights the second wire from below the solenoid went to the dipper switch then to ground? In that way, if the fuse blew because the solenoid became hot, the headlamp would move up (undipped?) but still stay lit (hopefully?)?

 

I may not have any good answers? But you have me wondering?

[Dandy Dave]

Sorted through some of it today. The old cracked wire on the end I found needed to be grounded to work the solenoid instead of being hooked where it was. And then it works consistantly. And the light stayed lit in both positions. Someone had been here before messing with it and did not make it work. I guess that's why I'm the chosen one. 😜

[rocketraider]

1 hour ago, Dandy Dave said:

Someone had been here before messing with it and did not make it work.

Good lord. Even Rolls-Royce aren't immune from that!😆

[Frank DuVal]

On 8/30/2022 at 12:33 PM, 1937hd45 said:

Must be and Edison friendship based reason for the AC deal.

Nope. Spinning magnets inside a coil of wire always produces AC current. To make DC you need a rectifier, like solid state diodes, vacuum tube diodes, or the ever popular on generators, a commutator with brushes.

 

A ladder diagram is easy. You have a ladder frame, don't you? Pull it out from under the car and lean it on the wall. You can make it vertical (like an extension ladder to climb up) or lay it on one side, so it doesn't fall over. One side rail is positive and the other side rail the the negative. The cross rails (rungs) are the switches and loads. Ladder diagrams are used to simplify reading HVC and other equipment diagrams. 

[Frank DuVal]

A ladder diagram lays out switches and loads better than a typical schematic:

 

 

 

This is from xckd.com  Comics by a NASA physics guy!

Edited September 4, 2022 by Frank DuVal (see edit history)

[SC38dls]

If you guys are trying to confuse me you are doing a very good job of it. I’m not sure if you are blowing Lucas smoke up my way or if is lightning but either way I’m not getting on any ladders for a long time! 
dave s 

[wayne sheldon]

Looks like common electronic schematics to me! I have read hundreds of them, and repaired thousands of pieces of equipment. I hated being stuck in the shop doing the work bench repairs. Most of my work was out in the field. Farmers weren't the only ones that could be out standing in their field!

[Dandy Dave]

A little side job to break the monotony of pulling wires on a Rolls. My old friend Al called me to get this Euclid going. I use to run this machine 40 years ago and was about the last one to run it before it was parked. Been sitting since the early 1980's. Had a bad starter button switch. Got that fixed and a bad radiator hose replaced and a little cranking, fed it some fuel and it started and ran like it did 40 years ago. Pumped up the flat tire. Got the transmission cable and linkage freed up and drove it out of the hole. This has a Detroit 4-71 for power and an Allison automatic for a transmission. 

  

[Dandy Dave]

A few more photos. 

[Dandy Dave]

A You Tube video...  https://youtu.be/42ScFQIDvYQ

[Frank DuVal]

I like it. Too bad you are so far from my driveway😄

[Larry Schramm]

Now what are you going to do with it?

[Dandy Dave]

15 hours ago, Larry Schramm said:

Now what are you going to do with it?

Not mine. It would just sit around here. But there is mutual friend that wants to buy it from Al. He wanted to see if the engine turned over. Not only did it turn over, It started and ran. 😁 I was surprised that the rack was not stuck as they usually are in these old Detroits that have sat even for 10 years. I rack that up to good service as Al, and his brother Richie, only ran the best oil and oil filters they could in all their machinery, and all the machinery had plenty of maintanance.  I was paid for my services. Now it is up to them to make a deal. The tractor is a 1958. The bowl is a 1951. When larger excavating company's were building roads it was not uncommon to switch tractors with a bowl or dump body to keep the job moving. And then rebuild or part out the worn tractor. Dandy Dave!

Edited September 6, 2022 by Dandy Dave (see edit history)

[Dandy Dave]

Back on this Rolls Royce. These lights illuminate the instument panel. The ends were missing off of one and they were found under the seat. Took awhile to figgure out where they came from as the lights were replaced with newer ones with different bulbs. I fabricated new ends from brass this morning and soldered them in place. 

 

[wayne sheldon]

Nice fabrication work!

 

I guess you can get bulbs for those?

Edited September 6, 2022 by wayne sheldon
Additional thought. (see edit history)

[John_Mereness]

You are doing well - a horrid project to do for anyone.    As a sidenote - my 25/30 cars had no exposed wires under car (both cars had wired in metal tubing and of course the coatings had swollen and all of that had to be replace - fun, fun, and more fun) 

[Dandy Dave]

11 hours ago, wayne sheldon said:

Nice fabrication work!

 

I guess you can get bulbs for those?

Yes Wayne. Festoon bulbs. These look like they have enough length. 1-11/16 inchs. Perko 0070DP0CLR Double Ended 12V / 10W Festoon Bulbs

[wayne sheldon]

This is one of the things I love about this website! Even some old idiot like me that has been around and seen so very much over the years can still find things to learn about!

 

Thank you DD!

[Dandy Dave]

Discoverd a Buzzer under the passanger seat of the Rolls yesterday while rewiring the body light feeds. Wondering if it is loud enough for the driver to hear? Looks like there was a push button in the passanger compartment for it. This car is full of surprises. Has anyone else seen one on a Rolls? 

 

[8E45E]

2 hours ago, Dandy Dave said:

Yes Wayne. Festoon bulbs. These look like they have enough length. 1-11/16 inchs. Perko 0070DP0CLR Double Ended 12V / 10W Festoon Bulbs

Aren't they similar to a GM dome light bulb in design, but perhaps slightly wider between the contacts; and having pointed ends as opposed to flat ends?

 

Craig

[Dandy Dave]

1 hour ago, 8E45E said:

Aren't they similar to a GM dome light bulb in design, but perhaps slightly wider between the contacts; and having pointed ends as opposed to flat ends?

 

Craig

That was my first thought. The GM dome light bulbs from the 70's that I remember, and looked up, have wires on the ends that hook in. Close in appearance but different holding design.