Garage/Shop Heat

[TAKerry]

I know this is akin to asking what is the best paint colour. But what are you guys doing for heat? I am in the upper end of the mid atlantic. Just below the PA border in MD upper eastern shore. Temps the last couple of days have topped out at 19. Which is not uncommon for this time of year.  I was thinking a radiant tuber heater but for some reason am having a hard time finding them. Also they seem to be on the high end of my price range. I would like to stay under $600. Shop is 24' x 40' with 10' eave walls and a 16' center cathedral ceiling. Insulated with metal ceiling. I thought about the 'hot dawg' type unit heaters which I am swaying towards for the price point. Needs to be run on liquid propane. I have a small radiant ceiling mount in my house garage that is rated for 40k btu but have never hooked it up. Another thought is to use that and purchase another just like it. Wonder if that will be enough heat?

[cudaman]

I have one of these in my three car garage, it works great. 

 

https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200921656_200921656

 

[alsancle]

I heat my goat shed with one of these which works out great.      I think you would hang one over your bench and over your work area.   

 

http://www.amberwayequine.com/products/radiant-heaters-2/

 

Your space is much bigger than mine,  so would need more than one for sure.  

[wmsue]

I use a Williams 30K BTU propane furnace. Outside air intake, direct vent and no open flame. It's only 66% efficiency though.

I put it in 2016 and go through 3 100lb. tanks each winter. I keep the shop at 45 degrees and only heat it up when I plan to work for hours. It does have a standing pilot light.

Tanks cost me $50 each to fill up in Sept.

Shop is 24 x 36 x 9' -  R11 walls and R19 ceiling concrete floor. I need a better fitting front door, but it does a nice job. It does not have an internal fan so I turn on a small reciprocating fan.

 

I think I paid about $600 for it but I see that HD gets double that price now.

I think it's the wrong season to buy one.

 

I installed the Williams 14K BTU in my daughters back room at her house 10 years ago. It's still going strong.

 

Bill

 

 

[edinmass]

13 hours ago, alsancle said:

I heat my goat shed with one of these which works out great.      I think you would hang one over your bench and over your work area.   

 

http://www.amberwayequine.com/products/radiant-heaters-2/

 

Your space is much bigger than mine,  so would need more than one for sure.  

 

Heating a goat shed.........makes me want to yell,at the top of my voice.......City Farmer!

[alsancle]

35 minutes ago, edinmass said:

 

Heating a goat shed.........makes me want to yell,at the top of my voice.......City Farmer!

 

I prefer the term "gentleman farmer".     I'm sure they would be fine without any heat, but I wouldn't be.

[NewOldWood]

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Mr-Heater-MHU50-Big-Maxx-Natural-Gas-Unit-Heater-50000-BTU-with-Propane-Conversion-Kit/37902470?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=1187

 

My shop in Wisconsin was 1500 sq/ft with a 9' ceiling, I heated it primarily with a wood stove but had one of these for when I would be gone for a time. Even in the dead of winter it would heat the shop to 70 degrees. Not sure what it would have cost to use it as a primary heat source as I never did. I'm in S Alabama now, my shop is about 3000 sq/ft with 10-12 ft ceilings and I have two of these same heaters in here. Possibly overkill but it was 32 degrees outside this morning and 72 in the shop. The ones I have now I bought factory reconditioned for about $400 each. Natural gas but come with propane orifices.

[TAKerry]

AJ, that is similar to the heater in my car garage I may 'repurpose' as its currently not hooked up and will cost nothing. Just not sure if its big enough I suppose I can try and add later. Has to be better than the pot heater I am currently using.

 

New Old Wood, thats one I was looking at but only a bit more on the BTU. My brother had one in his shop in MD and loved it but has a radiant tube heater now in his shop in Canada. He said the radiant is the way to go, so much nicer.

 

I found one of those big maxx heaters after doing a search. Website looked completely legit and they offer a wide variety of heaters. The bigmaxx was regular around $700 (which is the going rate). They had it on sale for $199.!! I read through everything a dozen times to see what the catch was. After getting a bit of a comfort level I decided to pull the plug. When I hit checkout a 51% discount popped up and showed the final price of $99!!!!!! I believe there is no such thing as getting something for nothing and this was next to nothing for the product. I was gonna call and place my order with a real person only there is no contact info on the website. No address, no phone, nothing. So I did what a reasonable person would and closed out. Northern Hardware seems to have a good selection I will head back there.

[alsancle]

If you want to spend the money, then some form of propane furnace is what you really need if you want to keep the place at 60 to 70°. The propane itself is not that expensive but the furnace and installation will set you back some money.

 

 The barn heaters I suggested, are the cheapest things to install, and they actually generate quite a bit of heat. However I’ve never really paid attention to what they might be doing to my electric bill, which is pretty stupid to begin with so it’s easy to hide in there. 

[ex98thdrill]

If you're building new, I have radiant in floor heat.  I've had mine up and running for three years and it's the best thing I ever did, but it isn't worth the expense of jackhammering your floor up to put it in.  In my case there's no dust, there's no pilot lights so if there's ever a fire, the only thing it'll ever be will be electrical.

 

[TAKerry]

Those are exactly what I was thinking about Bill. I still may end up going that route. In floor radiant is out of the question. Too much of a luxury for what time I will be spending in there. At one time my company specialized in building firehouses and just about everyone had radiant in floor heating. Very nice until you want to anchor something to the concrete! 

 

I replaced the oil furnace in my upstairs with propane a few years ago and still have the oil furnace sitting in my attic. I have been tempted to use that as the cost will be minimal. My biggest problem with that is the footprint and the valuable square footage it would take up. I have gone over a dozen scenarios of where to put it and have yet to find something that will work out well. I may keep up at that one too.

[kings32]

I heat with wood furnace Outside pumping in the garage eeps garage about 65  on really cold days . Wood is free  !Kigs32

[Gary_Ash]

I have a 50,000 BTU/hr "Hot Dawg" unit in my 24 x 36 garage, insulated walls and doors, with full 2nd floor loft.  I bought the one with external combustion air and sealed burner so that I won't get an explosion from paint fumes, etc., though I would never paint in the garage.  The other advantage is that it doesn't pump water vapor into the garage to rust parts.  I'm a bit amazed at the open-flame propane units in a shop where painting occurs - scares me!  In New England winters, the Hot Dawg unit gobbles propane at a prodigious rate when it's really cold, maybe not so much an issue in Maryland.  It does work well, provides even heat, is more than enough for the garage area.  

 

However, I don't really burn enough propane to satisfy the propane delivery company.  My only other usage is the kitchen cooktop.  So, they charge me $4.75/gallon this year.  Anticipating even higher prices, I had a mini-split heat pump unit rated at 24,000 BTU put in the garage this fall.  It will heat and cool the garage in all seasons.  This past weekend when the temperature dropped to 3° F, it still kept the garage at about 47°.  I would think that in Maryland, summer air conditioning would be a benefit.  The heat pump system isn't cheap to install but may pay benefits in the long run.  

[ex98thdrill]

13 hours ago, TAKerry said:

In floor radiant is out of the question. Too much of a luxury for what time I will be spending in there. At one time my company specialized in building firehouses and just about everyone had radiant in floor heating. Very nice until you want to anchor something to the concrete! 

You are correct on all accounts.  My father built the shop, and I built the "show barn."  The show barn is where all of the show cars are kept so that things in the shop don't bump into the show cars.  I have a four post lift in the show barn where I have two Mustangs stacked.

 

When my barn was built, I paid the money to put 2 inches of styrofoam down and had pex tubing run through the entire floor with hopes of one day heating the barn floor.  It was set up to where I could've heated the barn with a hot water heater.

 

A year after I got the barn built, I got screwed up in a really bad accident.  I lived through it, I recovered, and when I got the settlement from the insurance company, I tool the money and installed both solar and geothermal into my house and barn.  My barn is kept at 54 degrees year round and it doesn't cost me a dime to heat it.

 

It cost me less than $2,000 to put the pex tubing in my barn floor.  Now that I have a heated barn, I absolutely love it and had I not spent the money putting the tubing in, I'd be in the same boat as you're in.  No dust blowing through the ducts, no pilot lights, to flammable fuels needed to run the furnace.  Heat rises and my barn is nice.  Should I ever decide to buy another fire truck and the wife throws me out of the house, I have a warm place to sleep.

 

If you're building a new barn, the tubing in the floor is a minimal expense that will pay you huge dividends.  

 

My dad was mad when I put the tubing in the floor.  Once it was in, he'd spend more time tinkering in my barn than he would his own on a cold day.

 

LED lighting is another good move because on a cold day, they light up.

[TAKerry]

Nice settup ex98!  When I built my 'shop' most were telling me to "put in the tubing". I have been in the construction business for 40+ years with the majority focused on commercial building. We did Banks, Firehouses and restaurants primarily. So yes I know all of the benefits of radiant and one would think I knew better. Honestly, I just wasnt that concerned and knew there were other options. The pipe is relatively cheap at the onset and doesnt hurt anything if it is never used. But to put in a boiler would be a major expense compared to a $600 shop heater. THIS is my shop and I dont plan to live there. Again after working const. my entire life I am not unaware of working outside in inclimate weather good or bad, so if my shop walls can at least cut the wind I figure thats a bonus+, lol.  I dont mind air moving around as I keep fans running in the summer. I will probably put ceiling fans in as well. The area is first a woodworking shop for my day job so dust is a way of life in there. One reason why I am not crazy about open flames (having had one shop burn to the ground albeit doing car work!).
 

[leomara]

I have 2 10 foot sections of electric baseboard on opposite walls in my attached to the house 24 X 24 foot garage.  I rarely need to use both here in New Jersey.  I can maintain the heat in the garage between 60 and 70 degrees by keeping one baseboard on low to medium (2-3 on a dial) during the night and medium to high (5-6) when I go out there.  It does increase my electric bill but I find it well worth it. 

[ex98thdrill]

3 hours ago, Bills Auto Works said:

All comments Spot On & a nice setup as well! I am happy with my radiant heat tubes, but would have loved the in floor heat. I have spent time in several shops with it, very easy on the knees/joints.

Thank you.  If I had done anything different, I would've gone four feet wider in the barn, and two feet wider under each leanto.  I can get by without it, but I know I'd love it even more.

 

As for the shop, I have been toying with taking out the woodstove and switching to electric heat.  The shop has solar panels on the roof of it to power my mom's house, so I figured I can add electric heat into the barn, then add a couple more solar panels to make up the difference in the electric being used.  I wish that had radiant in floor heat, but I'm not about to empty the entire place, take the entire floor out add radiant in floor heat and then put in a new floor and move everything back in.  Where the lifts are if I can take that to 40 degrees that's still do able.  In terms of the paint room if I add a different zone to that I can raise the temp when we're painting and drop it back down when we're not.

Edited January 19, 2022 by ex98thdrill (see edit history)

[TAKerry]

Is this your shop or a fire station?

 

Im pretty impressed!!

 

My grandfather was a builder/developer. When he built his house around 1960 it was 'ultra modern'. It was a very large ranch style house with all kinds of crazy built in amenities. Built in appliances in the kitchen, crazy lighting etc. It was slab on grade with radiant in floor heating. For 1960 that was just about unheard of. All of the piping was done in copper, the material of choice for the day. After 30 years or so being submersed in concrete the copper started to fail and finding a leak, breaking up concrete, patching pipes and floor became a pain for my uncle (who was taking care of the house). It was finally abandoned and a hot air system installed.

[Marty Roth]

When I lived in New Jersey, we added a run of piping with a shut-off valve to include the garage with the hot water heating system when required.

Now, having spent two winters in Ft Wayne, Indiana, and five years in Richmond, Virginia, I've been back in the New orleans area since 1976 and rarely have a need to heat the 2-car attached garage, but when I do, usually just leaving the door open to the house is enough. In rare instances a small electric "tower" gets plugged in and more than does the job.

[nick8086]

I picked up a mini split heating and cooling unit.. Before the price went up. Still needs to be installed..  in the garage..

 

Cost was $4500.00

 

My wife got her unit first..  Hotel-Style Heating and Cooling Units (PTAC) in the sun room..

 

Cost $4000.00

 

It runs at 60 degrees over the winter..

 

Had to replace a Furnace, hot water heater, air conditioner, refrigerator, stove, two dishwashers and remove Two Trees that were 80 years old.. Not cheap since we had to hire a crane..

 

I had more that was done.. It was an expense year for us..

 

 

 

 

[TAKerry]

On 1/20/2022 at 9:34 PM, Marty Roth said:

When I lived in New Jersey, we added a run of piping with a shut-off valve to include the garage with the hot water heating system when required.

Now, having spent two winters in Ft Wayne, Indiana, and five years in Richmond, Virginia, I've been back in the New orleans area since 1976 and rarely have a need to heat the 2-car attached garage, but when I do, usually just leaving the door open to the house is enough. In rare instances a small electric "tower" gets plugged in and more than does the job.

I am sure a/c would be nice in the summer though.

 

When dad built the house my mother is in now, it was slab on grade. The oil burning furnace is in a separate room in the garage. The boiler generates enough heat to keep the garage nice and warm throughout the year, and he did this without even trying!

[Robert Street]

TA I am a little bit south of you on the shore. When I built my new shop I hung a propane unit about 90,000 btu as I recall and works very well. But I was having serious humidity issues in the spring even using two dehumidifiers.  So I put in a mini split and humidity is survivable plus I’m liking the AC during our Eastern Shore summers. My shop is a bit bigger but I really believe to hook your propane unit where it is and go with a minisplit

Robert

[ex98thdrill]

On 1/19/2022 at 4:44 PM, TAKerry said:

Is this your shop or a fire station?

 

Im pretty impressed!!

 

My grandfather was a builder/developer. When he built his house around 1960 it was 'ultra modern'. It was a very large ranch style house with all kinds of crazy built in amenities. Built in appliances in the kitchen, crazy lighting etc. It was slab on grade with radiant in floor heating. For 1960 that was just about unheard of. All of the piping was done in copper, the material of choice for the day. After 30 years or so being submersed in concrete the copper started to fail and finding a leak, breaking up concrete, patching pipes and floor became a pain for my uncle (who was taking care of the house). It was finally abandoned and a hot air system installed.

No that is not the firehouse, that is my barn.  That barn is heated with geo-thermal so my only operating costs are the electric to circulate and heat the water.  I put in solar panels, so it costs me nothing to heat it because there's no electric bill.

[Mark Shaw]

On 1/18/2022 at 2:01 PM, TAKerry said:

Very nice until you want to anchor something to the concrete! 

Radiant floor heat tubing is easy to locate with a laser temperature gage.

[Bhigdog]

My Eastern PA shop is a 32 X 48 X 12 pole type bldg with two 12 X 10 insulated over head doors. Walls are insulated with roll type plastic foam. Ceiling is metal with 6" fiberglass batts laid on top. Not exactly the tightest building.

I only heat it when I'm in the shop but it rarely gets below freezing inside. Dark brown color helps.

I heat with a suspended propane furnace about 80,000 BTU. Heats it with no problem.

What I like is all I have to do is flip a switch and it's blowing nice warm air in about 2 minutes.

No water to freeze and virtually no maintenance. No chimney is required, only a 4" horizontal metal flue.

In  23 years the only problem was one time a starling got by the bird stopper  screen in the flue and filled it with straw.

If I had to do it all over again I would do it exactly the same.

As an aside: I just replaced the old 8' flourescent tubes with 8' LED 5000K tubes. YOW! what a difference...........Bob

Edited February 2, 2022 by Bhigdog (see edit history)

[Cizu]

I do heat with wood furnace Outside pumping in the garage eeps garage about 65  on really cold days . Wood is free  !Kigs32

[Paul Dobbin]

This is an old thread, but I have 2cents to share:

My shop is 58 X 36 with open scissor trusses and blown in 5 1/2" foam insulation.  I installed a medium size REZNOR Propane furnace with

a blower that hangs in one gable end and blows the 58" interior..    It does not get super cold here in the mountains, so I set it on 40 degrees

and don't have to winterize anything in the shop.  My primary work area is in the Reznor furnace end of the building .   When I go down there

in the winter, I bump the thermostat up to 55 degree and in 15 minutes it's a perfect work temperature.   Uses abut 120 gallons of propane per

year.

Hope you solved you heat problem.

[Gary_Ash]

It was 94 degrees here today and I wanted to work in the garage.  At the breakfast table, I told Alexa to set the garage thermostat to 73 degrees.  This turned on the Fujitsu heat pump air conditioning and by the time I went into the garage, it was cool enough to work.  Adding a heat pump that both heats and cools works out well in many locations and is cheaper than propane.  In the afternoon, as I was drinking iced tea in the house, I told Alexa to turn off the A/C, turn off the lights, turn off the Radio Paradise music.  It works well.

[edinmass]

Gary, do we want to know what you asked Alexa for after you were done with the iced tea? 🤔

[Gary_Ash]

Sometimes it's difficult to remember that Alexa is just a dis-embodied figment of someone's imagination.  It's not always clear when she's listening and when she isn't.  My sister-in-law claims that she was working on something in the kitchen and when things went wrong, she shouted "S__t!".  Apparently, her Alexa chimed in with, "Now, now!", even when Alexa hadn't been asked for something.  I have taught my Alexa to recite the poem, "A wonderful bird is the pelican..."  But, alas, Alexa cannot provide any physical comforting.