1938 Packard Super Eight Derham Limo - Custom-bodied 1 of 1

[alsancle]

This was at Hershey and I posted pictures of it in the Hershey thread.     Seller needs advice from one of our car salesmen on the forum on how to take pictures.  A pole barn is not the place.   I think it is very interesting,  although we can argue over the aesthetics.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/165253546384

 

 

This is your chance to bid on a piece of history - an all-original, one of one 1938 Packard Super Eight built by the Derham Custom Body Company of Rosemont, Pennsylvania. This car was commissioned by Mrs. Sarah Brinton Audenreid on February 21, 1938, and was one of several custom Derham cars she had built. Built on a 1938 Packard Super Eight chassis, the body was completely custom per her specifications and includes several unusual features. The most noticeable is the art deco body evocative of a car from the 20s; the curved fenders were modeled after her earlier cars and she was adamant that this Packard include them. The car also has custom coach lamps on both sides, taken from her 1924 Pierce Arrow (also a Derham car), and a hidden radio in the rear passenger arm rest. 

 

You will also notice that there is no Packard badging on the exterior of the car; she had the hood ornament removed and replaced the original white steering wheel with a black one. The car also sports the original custom rims and tires, both made locally in Philadelphia specifically for the car. We have copies of the majority of the written correspondence between Mrs. Audenreid and James P. Derham outlining her specifications - and no expense was spared. There are also multiple letters from Derham to various vendors regarding custom options for the vehicle. Mrs. Audenreid traded in two other Packards, and paid an additional $7300.00 for this car. A typical Derham car ran about $20,000 dollars (equivalent to over $400,000 in today's money).

 

The car is painted a dark olive green and black two-tone, and has faint yellow pin striping and rims. All color options on the car were completely bespoke, per Mrs. Audenreid's wishes. Additionally, the initials "SBA" can be found on each rear door. The driver's compartment has a removable soft top and custom windshield defrosters, and the rear compartment is outfitted in custom upholstery and wood paneling. There is additional correspondence detailing the upholstery specifications included in the documentation. The letters and receipts between Mrs. Audenreid and Derham can be viewed at the link below:

 

https://cccamuseum.org/Explore/Archives/Archive-Viewer.aspx

 

Scroll through the viewer and select the Derham option at the top. Then scroll down and select 1938 Packard. The documentation of the car includes 42 pages and is listed under 1938 Packard (Derham), and there is a single picture of the car listed under the same heading. Above, you will see a picture of the car in Rosemont when it was brand new.

 

The car does not run or drive, but it does roll and comes with a clean title. A new starter has been fitted and the motor turns over. We suspect the car would run with minor work. The car has been stored for the last 50 years, and comes only two owners removed from Mrs. Audenreid. This is a completely one-of-a-kind vehicle, and has been local to the Philadelphia area its entire life. I am happy to answer additional questions regarding the car, and we can share any of the documentation upon request. Please message me with any questions, or call 302-540-0391. This is a truly unique vehicle and there are no others like it. The car is being sold without reserve, as-is. Serious bidders only. Thank you for interest!

 

[alsancle]

And here is the image from the CCCA Museum archive.  So yes,  the car is real.

 

[alsancle]

From Hershey.

[bryankazmer]

 A real "Philadelphia style" car - painted bumper and cormorant, very conservative old money look.

[alsancle]

30 minutes ago, bryankazmer said:

 A real "Philadelphia style" car - painted bumper and cormorant, very conservative old money look.

Agree with the Philadelphia style, but not sure about conservative. At least for a 1938.
 

Looks like it’s original right down to the tires. A shame the condition is just a little too far gone for preservation.

[58L-Y8]

Archaic style for an eccentric client mired in the WWI-Edwardian Era.   Custom coachbuilders accommodated any number of such folks as the current style and taste trends evolved, it was their stock-and-trade.   Oddly enough, the white-wall tires look very contrary to what they were trying to impart to the overall modest style.

 

Although the car did appear to be somewhat beyond preservation, it would be worth a try first to determine if an acceptable appearance could be achieved before moving to a full restoration. 

[edinmass]

 

Interesting car.......some one is going to have to fall in love to do it. 

[Guest]

Rare with an appreciative history but the design choice leaves much to be desired. 

The fender style dates the car so severely as to have made it already look old when brand new.  The rear fender lines are an embarrassment on every level.

This is the circus, side show geek of Packards.

[neil morse]

4 hours ago, 58L-Y8 said:

Archaic style for an eccentric client mired in the WWI-Edwardian Era.

 

You are so right!  How odd that someone would pay a custom body builder to create this styling disaster in 1938 when you consider what it must have cost and what someone could have had for the same money.  This is a freak of nature that maybe belongs in a museum, but that's about all you can say about it.

[Matt Harwood]

If the guys who pine for a big, plush, American 70's luxo-sedan had the money to design their own car in the '30s, this is what they would have done. "The old style was better, modern cars are terrible."

[1939_Buick]

8 minutes ago, neil morse said:

 

You are so right!  How odd that someone would pay a custom body builder to create this styling disaster in 1938 when you consider what it must have cost and what someone could have had for the same money.

Looks like a 20's body put onto a later chassis

[f.f.jones]

Can you say "UGLY" ?

[edinmass]

6 minutes ago, f.f.jones said:

Can you say "UGLY" ?

 

Mr Jones..........the car is a "double bagger!" And the lady in the back seat? We can only speculate. 😏

[m-mman]

Money and status can be difficult to understand. 

 

But having enough money to spend a lot of it on something that others might not be attracted to, screams; 

"Yeah, I got so much money I dont care what you think of me!"  And THAT is a LOT of money!!

 

Thorstein Veblen would be proud of her. 

[car crazy]

Saw it in the flea market- fascinating car..

 

[58L-Y8]

1 hour ago, m-mman said:

Money and status can be difficult to understand. 

 

But having enough money to spend a lot of it on something that others might not be attracted to, screams; 

"Yeah, I got so much money I dont care what you think of me!"  And THAT is a LOT of money!!

 

Thorstein Veblen would be proud of her. 

Exactly!  This dowager knew her mind and knew her taste...and modern style trends bedamned!  She would have exactly what she wanted, Derham would craft it and for those who didn't find it attractive...well, what did they know!

 

The severely formal quarters, the open rear fenders in carriage-style, the plush interior fitments and open chauffeured town car all hark back to the pre-WWI era.   Without knowing anything else about her other than her motor-carriage, I'd opine she was something of a lace-curtain circus herself...

[Guest]

2 hours ago, m-mman said:

Thorstein Veblen would be proud of her. 

That is a keen reference m-mman, and to the point indeed.

(Paralleled in Billy Joel's Sergeant O'Leary)

 

Edited December 27, 2021 by GregLaR (see edit history)

[alsancle]

The ebay ad misspells the last name of Sarah Audenried who seemed to be quite the character.  

 

 

[alsancle]

This was her primary house:

 

https://www.redfin.com/PA/Philadelphia/1800-Delancey-Pl-19103/home/38228509

 

 

 

[edinmass]

3 minutes ago, alsancle said:

This was her primary house:

 

https://www.redfin.com/PA/Philadelphia/1800-Delancey-Pl-19103/home/38228509

 

 

 

 

"All things being equal.......I don't want to live in Philadelphia......... "

[alsancle]

The white steering wheel was lost along the way.

 

Being a guy who appreciates one of ones I could bite on this if it was just a bit more attractive and in better shape.

[trimacar]

Well, it is fascinating.  If you restored it and proudly showed it, you’d be the subject of a lot of conversations…a LOT of conversations….

 

Rare or one of a kind doesn’t necessarily mean pretty, desirable, nor valuable….

[alsancle]

Here are a few more pictures from Hershey.

[58L-Y8]

Other than the window cranks rather than regulator straps, the rear tonneau interior is right out of 1914.   If only the fenders were bent metal frames covered with patent leather.

[prewarnut]

Ok stupid question, is it an 8 or a twelve? The ad says 8 cyl but it has a 12 hubcap on the rear (I know anything is possible with this). Any way to tell? I think the front bumper is also going to be erroneous on this car....

[alsancle]

19 minutes ago, prewarnut said:

Ok stupid question, is it an 8 or a twelve? The ad says 8 cyl but it has a 12 hubcap on the rear (I know anything is possible with this). Any way to tell? I think the front bumper is also going to be erroneous on this car....

 

[AdamInNH]

19 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

If the guys who pine for a big, plush, American 70's luxo-sedan had the money to design their own car in the '30s, this is what they would have done. "The old style was better, modern cars are terrible."

So, what we have here, really, is a gen-u-wine 1938 Packard “Excalibur”. 

[ericmac]

When I was a high school student I lusted after a Packard, telling myself I would take ANY Packard I could get so long as it was a prewar car and a "capital C" Classic.  I was wrong. As much as I appreciate that it has been saved, I could never fall in love with this hideous monster. 

[alsancle]

I’m wondering if it would be worth the 35K as a garage art? Of course that assumes they would take the opening bid. I didn’t ask the seller at Hershey what they were looking for.

[edinmass]

1 hour ago, ericmac said:

When I was a high school student I lusted after a Packard, telling myself I would take ANY Packard I could get so long as it was a prewar car and a "capital C" Classic.  I was wrong. As much as I appreciate that it has been saved, I could never fall in love with this hideous monster. 

 

CAR SNOB! 🤯

 

Welcome to the club, I’ll show you the secret handshake at Hershey in October. 👍

[edinmass]

19 minutes ago, alsancle said:

I’m wondering if it would be worth the 35K as a garage art? Of course that assumes they would take the opening bid. I didn’t ask the seller at Hershey what they were looking for.

Its was obvious at Hershey “what they were looking for”.......... a blind man with a big checkbook. 😏

[ericmac]

40 minutes ago, edinmass said:

 

CAR SNOB! 🤯

 

Welcome to the club, I’ll show you the secret handshake at Hershey in October. 👍

FINALLY I am invited to the society of the Secret Handshake! I never thought this day would come!

 

Car snob? Me? Guilty as charged. 

[Bleach]

I wonder if a regular set of '38 fenders would bolt on. I know that would affect it's originality but at least then it might not be so hideous.

[alsancle]

2 hours ago, Bleach said:

I wonder if a regular set of '38 fenders would bolt on. I know that would affect it's originality but at least then it might not be so hideous.

They might.  Front and rear fenders would cure a lot of the ugliness,  but you would lose the eclectic nature of it.

[Hudsy Wudsy]

My very first thought upon seeing this was Brewster.

[mikewest]

I LIKE IT!  Id like to swap the guy some "Run of the mill" iron for it. It would sell in Livonia!

[prewarnut]

I think the issue is not the fenders so much as the smaller diameter wheels (and whitewalls) in use by '38. The weight of this would likely preclude back-dating the wheels/rims.

Pity the rear compartment is worn/moth-eaten. Who was it's caretaker in the '80s when it had a fighting chance of preservation? This reminds me of Packard 180s. More knowledgable experts can correct me but I thought the allure of the 180 versus a 160 was it's exclusive use of specific interior fabrics, etc - which become moot in a total restoration since they are gone. The same would apply to a restoration here it would seem...which brings me back to my point, who was its caretaker in the '80s?

[m-mman]

My suggestion for anyone who would like to learn more about this car DO go the the CCCA museum website and look up the file on this car. 

 

The letters and receipts between Mrs. Audenreid and Derham can be viewed at the link below:

https://cccamuseum.org/Explore/Archives/Archive-Viewer.aspx   Scroll through the viewer and select the Derham option at the top. Then scroll down and select 1938 Packard. The documentation of the car includes 42 pages and is listed under 1938 Packard (Derham),

 

Something like 40 pages from Derham's files. I read it last night. The notes and tales paint the picture of a professional builder struggling to please a wealthy patron. I imagine they tore their hair out BUT it was a huge commission in the middle of rough times. 

 

It was painted in the official "Audenreid colors"  The bumpers and trim were painted black. The Comorant was removed after delivery (guess she didnt like it) The black steering was ordered from Packard and swapped for the white one after delivery. 

It was delivered with whitewalls and white running boards. 

She paid extra for factory defrosters to be installed which Mr Derham said: "This is a good idea for extra safety"

 

The fenders were removed and adapted from her "Packard town car"  (The trade in - no listing of what year IT was) There were TWO letters asking her to P-L-E-A-S-E  bring the (old) town car to the shop so that they could study and measure the (old car) fenders in preparation for attachment to the new car. "We promise to not keep your chauffer any longer than necessary"  She traded in two old cars on this one (one was the fender less Packard town car) 

Several letters about dealing with the titles "We will need the title to the Packard Town Car (trade in) It will be a white paper with a red border. You should have this in your files"

 

There was also an appointment for her to come to Derham so that she could try out and custom fit the back seat(!)  "Mrs Audenreid likes the seat a little vertical". 

 

The bill of sale from the Packard dealer for the chassis and the payments from Mrs Audenreid. "Yes we will use your country address so that you can avoid the city tax" 

 

Whatever you think of the car, do read the file and you will at least have a better understanding of the car.

 

 

[Guest]

I agree, the car would probably have much more appeal if it had been preserved in a much better state than it was.  While it's not my cup of tea, I can appreciate the man hours put into this one off order and would like to have seen it more in it's original state.  The blacking out of all the bright metal trim seems odd, especially when white walls and white running boards were part of the package.  Also I wonder what type fabric was used on the running boards?

Greg

Edited December 28, 2021 by GregLaR (see edit history)

[bryankazmer]

I think the painted trim is consistent with the other requests.  I've seen a couple of other custom bodied cars done this way.  None of that garish shiny nouveau riche trim - what's next, chauffeurs without uniforms? It's the whitewalls and running boards that are odd.