Jump to content

Pierce Arrow on my lawn this morning....

keiser31

By keiser31
in General Discussion

 Share

Recommended Posts

keiser31 25,000+ Points

keiser31

Posted
Posted

My friend, Jack came by this morning on the way down south. He stopped by to show me his 1932 Pierce Arrow that was going in for an engine refresh. What an absolutely GORGEOUS vehicle it is!

IMG_2962.JPG

IMG_2963.JPG

IMG_2964.JPG

  • Like 16
Link to comment
Share on other sites
zepher 10,000+ Points

zepher

Posted
Posted

What a treat to see such a stately vehicle.

I have yet to drive a '32 Pierce but experts like Ed say they are the best drivers of all the later year cars.

And that is saying something since I absolutely love the way my '29 drives.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
edinmass 25,000+ Points

edinmass

Posted
Posted

1932 Pierce eight is a one year only engine, with lots of quirks that can be challenging. Hope they have their ducks in a row..........

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Grimy 25,000+ Points

Grimy

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, edinmass said:

1932 Pierce eight is a one year only engine, with lots of quirks that can be challenging. Hope they have their ducks in a row..........

You're going to have to explain that to all of us, Ed.  Some components are a few years only.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
keiser31 25,000+ Points

keiser31

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, edinmass said:

1932 Pierce eight is a one year only engine, with lots of quirks that can be challenging. Hope they have their ducks in a row..........

Apparently, it just has a "tick" somewhere....maybe a lifter. Valves were adjusted....still has a tick.

 

Edited by keiser31 (see edit history)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
edinmass 25,000+ Points

edinmass

Posted
Posted (edited)

One year only crankshaft, one year only oil galleries and lines are different, one year only oil filter and lines,  new style motor mount and timing cover, split one piece thin style cam bearings.....steel backed that can’t be reused, block is one year only...........get the oiling system wrong and you will smoke the motor. We have a do over 32 eight in the shop right now........the “new” motor “professionally done” didn’t make it 1000 miles. And we have TWO more coming in from the west coast next week that are also “new” do overs........one that won’t stop overheating............on a 500k restoration. Yes.......they are all easy, till you have to get them to last and go down the road. 
 

Fact is fifty years ago, 80 percent of the machine shops that built engines could easily knock out a straight eight with 9 main bearings..........today, 99 percent can’t do it correctly.  
 

They are chasing a tick from the above comments, they may get lucky and not have to pull it or tear it down. Although I must admit a “tick” is a strange noise in a Pierce eight of any year. While I have no idea when or who did the engine on the 32 shown above........if it were easy, why ship it from up north to Southern California?

 

 

Actually there are a few tricks to making these motors from 32 less problematic.........but they cost time and money. 29’s-31’s are easier to do. Also, are they using the fixed or floating pin rods? Figure two grand to swap it over to inserts instead of babbitt. We could also talk pistons......if they are the factory invar strut units.........that’s a whole neither discussion. 

Edited by edinmass (see edit history)
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Fossil 25,000+ Points

Fossil

Posted
Posted
On 11/1/2021 at 11:54 AM, Walt G said:

Great color choice as well.

That was the first thing that crossed my mind. The second was how do you dare take that radiator ornament out in public? 

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
edinmass 25,000+ Points

edinmass

Posted
Posted

Tick and valves on a 32..........I wouldn’t consider a “upgrade” to hydraulics a plus........the oil galleries are less than half the size of a 33 to the lifters. My first thought on a 32 with a “tick” is a broken piston skirt or strut. Speculation doesn’t help the owner of the car or the shop..........a correct diagnostic approach is what they need.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Grimy 25,000+ Points

Grimy

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Fossil said:

The second was how do you dare take that radiator ornament out in public?

Trimacar has a yellow rain slicker and hat for his archer.  The teenage son of a friend rode shotgun in my 1936 for a day and complained about "having to look at a guy's chrome behind."

  • Like 1
  • Haha 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Walt G 25,000+ Points

Walt G

Posted
Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, edinmass said:

Fact is fifty years ago, 80 percent of the machine shops that built engines could easily knock out a straight eight with 9 main bearings..........today, 99 percent can’t do it correctly.  

TRUE WORDS INDEED. SO this is progress, modern button pushing information and instant satisfaction and problem solving. , a button will tell the machine how to do it. or some "expert".  Hey go and Google the solution..........

Hope this doesn't sound to sarcastic ( yeah it probably does) but I encounter the same when asked about both automotive history and general/local etc history. Everything can be "found on line" - No it can't. Someone has to go to the primary source or primary source material to see what really happened IF you know where to look  and IF it is available at all.

We are all learning great lessons here thanks to a number of learned people who have experience because they did the deed first hand - hands on. Like Ed, Joe Puleo etc.

Edited by Walt G
spelling error (see edit history)
  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites
zepher 10,000+ Points

zepher

Posted
Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, Fossil said:

That was the first thing that crossed my mind. The second was how do you dare take that radiator ornament out in public? 

 

 

Many years ago, my grandfather installed a chain with a rod at one end that sits down inside the top tank so you can't just spin the Archer off and take it.

You can get the chain out of the tank if the radiator is stone cold but there is no way you could do it after the engine has been running.

 

But there have been instances of the Archer mascot being stolen off cars even when on tour at PAS national meets.

It's a shame.

And it is also why there have been many flat radiator caps made over the years to keep thieves from even contemplating stealing it.

But the car just isn't the same without the Archer mascot leading the way. 

Edited by zepher (see edit history)
  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites
JACK M 25,000+ Points

JACK M

Posted
Posted

OK, at the meet in Idaho pretty much everyone that listened to it figured piston slap. possibly wrist pin.

I can kind of adjust the sound with the foot feed.

Was in the hotel bar one night talking to these two guys and we ended up going out and readjusting the valves, a tiny bit tighter than I had set them.

No change in the sound.

These two guys are in charge of a very private collection in California.

Coincidently they are restoring the exact same car but do not have the correct rear fenders.

Their group was all over this car taking pictures and such so that they could try and replicate my fenders.

Then the offer was made by their engine guy that he would do some investigating. Probably pull the head and pan to check the pistons and rods.

This was approved and encouraged by the collection owner.

He will work on it as a side job because the shop manager and collection owner thought it would be handy for them to have my car there for some comparisons for their project. 

Fingers crossed that it is something simple. Engine holds excellent oil pressure and does not run hot. It actually runs pretty well.

I drove it a few hundred miles up there and it got no worse nor better.

I have been hesitant to drive the car making a noise that I am uncomfortable with.

I dropped it off at their shop north of LA yesterday and am visiting my brother in Palm Springs for a few days before I head home.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites
edinmass 25,000+ Points

edinmass

Posted
Posted (edited)

It’s not going to be a wrist pin. Probably a cracked skirt or a broken invar strut if you have factory pistons, Preforming a cylinder power balance test would ID the hole, and the fact it’s an upper end noise. There isn’t much to make noise in a Pierce eight from 1932. From your description, be prepared to do the entire engine. If you need help with parts, PM me. I would do an oil pump upgrade and install the bigger pump from a later car. Don’t touch the seats with inserts........waste of time, money, and it will trash the block. Valves, guides, and springs are available new in modern materials. Figure 150 a rod for bearings, figure 180 a piston for piston and rings. Main bearings cost a ton of money...........figure five grand. Gaskets another grand. Timing chain and gears may be available.....it’s hit or miss. Decking the block is important, as is decking the water jacket surface. All the accessories should be done.......and it runs into time and money. Obviously do the clutch and flywheel if the motor is out. Overhauling the transmission is easy and the bearings are available over the counter. Basically is is an issue of getting everything done and not being hung out to dry by suppliers. Line boring that crank isn’t fast or easy. Crankshafts are often not straight, and setting up end play can be difficult. Good luck, and maybe you might get lucky and not have to do the entire thing.

 

PS- if it is a piston.......they are ALL bad......and will fail in quick succession. Do them all if it’s a piston.

 

One last note......You can NOT line bore that block for the crank on a modern digital machine jumping from bearing to bearing........it won’t work, and the crank will bind. It’s the most common failure from modern machine shops.

 

My 1932 a few years ago on Martha’s Vineyard on Chappaquiddick Island where Teddy Kennedy went swimming just out of view on the left.

98DC2263-E89D-4D13-9BFF-1C873732D71C.png

Edited by edinmass (see edit history)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
JACK M 25,000+ Points

JACK M

Posted
Posted

Thanks for this info Ed.

I wouldn't have a problem replacing pistons and rings, or rods for that matter.

Rod bearings had been done recently by Greg and he assured me that the mains are good.

Oil pressure is strong and steady.

I am not sure what the Invar strut is but will assume that it is part of the piston.

I have the gut feeling that the rod bearings were done chasing the noise and it didn't fix it.

I suspect something like a cracked skirt as you suggest.

I will forward your comments to the shop.

Love your coupe.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
JACK M 25,000+ Points

JACK M

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, SC38dls said:

Just hope you still have rear fenders when you pick it up.  😁

 

The car they have has some fenders with it but just not the correct ones.

They look to be from a sedan and should not be to difficult to modify to fit the Brougham.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bloo 25,000+ Points

Bloo

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, edinmass said:

One last note......You can NOT line bore that block for the crank on a modern digital machine jumping from bearing to bearing........it won’t work, and the crank will bind. It’s the most common failure from modern machine shops.

 

Why is this? Is this an engine where the main journals are all different sizes? What is the right way to do it?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share
Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...