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1930 Packard 745 2-4 passenger coupe


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The bright red body color on the 745 top area makes it look like it is a top hat, hold your hand over that area to block out the color and the whole profile appearance changes and makes the car look longer. If even that top area of sheet metal were painted the fender color it would make the car look different. The bright red color is what is distracting and lessens the beauty of the styling and overall design.

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On 7/28/2020 at 5:16 PM, 58L-Y8 said:

What a gorgeous rendering!  This 745 coupe would be a case where finishing it to match the colors in the rendering would be desirable. 

Heresy to suggest, but the top height on the rendering looks like that of the '30 734 Speedster sedan or five passenger coupe...

'30 Packard 745 2-4 passenger coupe rendering.jpg


One has to remember that’s not a photograph, but rather an artist’s misconception....and the artist was surely told “make it look long and low”.....

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42 minutes ago, trimacar said:


One has to remember that’s not a photograph, but rather an artist’s misconception....and the artist was surely told “make it look long and low”.....

 

A normal person would not fit in most renderings if they were actually built.   Although this one doesn't look to be the most egregious I have ever seen.  

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1 hour ago, trimacar said:


One has to remember that’s not a photograph, but rather an artist’s misconception....and the artist was surely told “make it look long and low”.....

 

I was actually wondering what color is it? Black? Dark gray? Dark blue? With bright red fenders? Burgundy? Plum? Or a little orange/yellow, like a brick red? How do we interpret those colors if we were to put them on a real car? That's what I find so frustrating about artists' renderings--they don't really show how light moves around the car or what colors actually look like on a 3-dimensional shiny object. People tell me all the time they painted their car like the catalog, but if this was the catalog image they were working from, there are a lot of interpretations as to what color it should be...

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11 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

B790BBFF-6D25-45F7-8DE4-74F9DEDBEC34.thu

 

How can this gigantic car look so claustrophobic?


I think that is the norm. I am amazed how many massive cars from the classic era have no room whatsoever inside them. 

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17 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

 

I was actually wondering what color is it? Black? Dark gray? Dark blue? With bright red fenders? Burgundy? Plum? Or a little orange/yellow, like a brick red? How do we interpret those colors if we were to put them on a real car? That's what I find so frustrating about artists' renderings--they don't really show how light moves around the car or what colors actually look like on a 3-dimensional shiny object. People tell me all the time they painted their car like the catalog, but if this was the catalog image they were working from, there are a lot of interpretations as to what color it should be...

I interpret the rendering colors for the hood, upper cowl, hood sides and body below the beltline and the complete trunk as dark gray; for the chassis, fenders, belt molding and top as burgundy/dark carmine red.  The wheels and window reveal as straw tan/soft yellow.  

 

"and the artist was surely told “make it look long and low”....."  Absolutely, that was the main reason to continue to use artist rendering even after photography was a viable means to present cars for advertising. 

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37 minutes ago, 58L-Y8 said:

I interpret the rendering colors for the hood, upper cowl, hood sides and body below the beltline and the complete trunk as dark gray; for the chassis, fenders, belt molding and top as burgundy/dark carmine red.  The wheels and window reveal as straw tan/soft yellow.  

 

"and the artist was surely told “make it look long and low”....."  Absolutely, that was the main reason to continue to use artist rendering even after photography was a viable means to present cars for advertising. 

 

Interesting--I like your interpretation. But to address the ambiguity of the rendering, I can also see this:

 

2436c2fbdb1565a80e5b98489504318a--retro-

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8 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

 

Interesting--I like your interpretation. But to address the ambiguity of the rendering, I can also see this:

 

2436c2fbdb1565a80e5b98489504318a--retro-

Matt: Yes, I see why there is ambiguity in the rendering.  I'd opine the color choice on this roadster was closer to the 1950's contrasting black and bright red.  In the late 1920/early 1930's sophisticated color combinations were another way to elevate one's cars from the ordinary, run-of-the-mill offerings.   A dark, fine metallic gray contrasted to a burgundy/dark carmine red would be distinctive and not seen on general production cars.   Walt should weigh in on this topic, he has the original color selection documents as proof.

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3 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

 

I was actually wondering what color is it? Black? Dark gray? Dark blue? With bright red fenders? Burgundy? Plum? Or a little orange/yellow, like a brick red? How do we interpret those colors if we were to put them on a real car? That's what I find so frustrating about artists' renderings--they don't really show how light moves around the car or what colors actually look like on a 3-dimensional shiny object. People tell me all the time they painted their car like the catalog, but if this was the catalog image they were working from, there are a lot of interpretations as to what color it should be...


I think it’s interesting to use artist’ renderings, such as in period ads and catalogs, as a reference if you’re looking for color ideas.

 

I do NOT think you can defend a color choice as “original” from those renderings.  It could be that no car was ever painted in real life as the artist shows it.  
 

Of course, the owner can then fall back on “well,  to sell a car they’d paint it any color you want”.....a statement which actually applies to very few auto makers....

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3 hours ago, trimacar said:


I think it’s interesting to use artist’ renderings, such as in period ads and catalogs, as a reference if you’re looking for color ideas.

 

I do NOT think you can defend a color choice as “original” from those renderings.  It could be that no car was ever painted in real life as the artist shows it.  
 

Of course, the owner can then fall back on “well,  to sell a car they’d paint it any color you want”.....a statement which actually applies to very few auto makers....

 

This is the explanation of how this happened.

 

https://i.etsystatic.com/19233439/r/il/741efe/2088806187/il_570xN.2088806187_t8ux.jpg

https://www.mydreamcar.online/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/1931-REO-Royale-RKM-auction1.jpg

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There must have been extra paint left over at the shop.........Phantom Corsair parked behind it, I’m not a fan, but the name “Flying Wombat” fits.

866A3F33-B0C7-4891-B8E5-718B7D81FAFE.png

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2 hours ago, Fossil said:

What could they have possibly been thinking? 


I don’t ever want to sell it, so I will paint it a color that no one will ever want!

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1 hour ago, edinmass said:


I don’t ever want to sell it, so I will paint it a color that no one will ever want!

 

 

I swear that MUST be what a lot of people think when they paint cars wrong colors. However, why then is it that when they do decide to sell, they want EVERY dollar they spent on its restoration?

 

I don't care if we are talking "hobby fad" colors or restorations of the '50s, the '80s, or 2000-something. The only right color to paint a car is the original era color (with a very few rare exceptions, usually on era show cars that were then repainted before they were three years old).

 

My opinion for fifty plus years now.

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I agree it’s best to use period correct traditional colors, but I have changed it up over the years. Tasteful is what is important, and not transforming a car into a circus wagon. Yet, the circus wagon does have appeal to those who are not familiar with cars. The most successful trophy winning car I ever worked with was a totally incorrect metal flake with pearl in it. The color was totally modern, but fit the car well. It often beat much better cars in competition. It literally won a trophy every time it went out......and I’m not talking about a cruise night show. It’s the 1935 Auto Show car........

F9FD8064-5AD9-483F-86D2-EF721A9B7B12.jpeg

Edited by edinmass (see edit history)
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9 hours ago, edinmass said:

There must have been extra paint left over at the shop.........Phantom Corsair parked behind it, I’m not a fan, but the name “Flying Wombat” fits.

866A3F33-B0C7-4891-B8E5-718B7D81FAFE.png


I think, and Ed can correct me if wrong, that car showed up, freshly restored, at the 100th anniversary Pierce meet in Buffalo.  Beautiful restoration, but the color took your breath away, and not in the good sense.

 

I was sitting next to the then owner at the banquet, and when “best of show” or some equivalent award was given, it went to a Bob Sands car.  The owner slammed his fist on the table, said “I should have won that award, damn good old boy judging, I’m selling the car and quitting this club”.  And, he did, and, he did........

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9 hours ago, edinmass said:

There must have been extra paint left over at the shop.........Phantom Corsair parked behind it, I’m not a fan, but the name “Flying Wombat” fits.

 

Eddy,  how dare you compare that to something very cool!

 

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/10/1938_Phantom_Corsair_%289402801968%29.jpg/1200px-1938_Phantom_Corsair_%289402801968%29.jpg

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28 minutes ago, trimacar said:


I think, and Ed can correct me if wrong, that car showed up, freshly restored, at the 100th anniversary Pierce meet in Buffalo.  Beautiful restoration, but the color took your breath away, and not in the good sense.

 

I was sitting next to the then owner at the banquet, and when “best of show” or some equivalent award was given, it went to a Bob Sands car.  The owner slammed his fist on the table, said “I should have won that award, damn good old boy judging, I’m selling the car and quitting this club”.  And, he did, and, he did........

And the next buyer had it restored in black with grey belt line.  Looks great now. 

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The "Flying Wombat" isn't very cool..............it's a design experiment done with too much money and poor results. It does serve one useful function. Last time I saw it driving around Florida it was smoking so much it was killing the mosiquitoes. The car has it's place in automotive and movie history, but it will never win a class at a major show. It will rack up the special awards, which is fair and appropriate. No one has built a replica............so, I don't think there is that much interest in it's design. It would fit in well with your oddball collection of strange cars.......maybe you should give the museum a call and see if it's for sale. Just one thing........I won't work on it.

Edited by edinmass (see edit history)
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I don't know who restored it and painted it purple. A 1931 Won best of show at the 100th anniversary meet. I think Bob won something else. That said.........why would one expect to win anything when a car that looks like that is at the "club" where it belongs. No tougher judging standards in the world than at the club that protects the cars history and scholarship. When it comes to winning a class or major award at ANY show or club, never count your chickens before they are hatched. What is fair, correct, and proper may or may not have an impact on who gets what. Just the way of the world. 

Edited by edinmass (see edit history)
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2 hours ago, edinmass said:

I agree it’s best to use period correct traditional colors, but I have changed it up over the years. Tasteful is what is important, and not transforming a car into a circus wagon. Yet, the circus wagon does have appeal to those who are not familiar with cars. The most successful trophy winning car I ever worked with was a totally incorrect metal flake with pearl in it. The color was totally modern, but fit the car well. It often beat much better cars in competition. It literally won a trophy every time it went out......and I’m not talking about a cruise night show. It’s the 1935 Auto Show car........

F9FD8064-5AD9-483F-86D2-EF721A9B7B12.jpeg

 

Keep in mind - The fellow who owned the Pierce Arrow and the relative with the Packard knew each other most of their lives from High School  (plus Dayton is a pretty close knit car community) - so when topic of PA restoration came up ... (and yes, that was original paint on the Packard - the car survived pretty untouched excepting top and leather until 1990's (to unfortunately be painted resale red in hands of next owner). 

Scan_Pic0004.thumb.jpg.70fcd9564bd7d42b0a7c659a02ebfd68.jpg

 

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Scan_Pic0004.thumb.jpg.70fcd9564bd7d42b0a7c659a02ebfd68.jpg

 

I would describe the car in person as a Turquoise leaning toward more Blue (that Green), pearled with gold metallic flake (it was shiny, but had a pearl look to it and interestingly was done with the Gold Flake verses silver metallic flake).

 

 

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On 7/28/2020 at 4:50 PM, alsancle said:

 

image description

 

 

There was plenty of this color on cars in 30's - keep in mind that Reds are unstable paint colors and the cars were bought by the "live fast die young crowd"  

 

In a 1930 Franklin the color combination would be Satin Red.  

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1 hour ago, edinmass said:

The "Flying Wombat" isn't very cool..............it's a design experiment done with too much money and poor results. It does serve one useful function. Last time I saw it driving around Florida it was smoking so much it was killing the mosiquitoes. The car has it's place in automotive and movie history, but it will never win a class at a major show. It will rack up the special awards, with is fair and appropriate. No one has built a replica............so, I don't think there is that much interest in it's design. It would fit in well with your oddball collection of strange cars.......maybe you should give the museum a call and see if it's for sale. Just one thing........I won't work on it.

 

Where is the down vote option when you need it?    Movie pedigree means nothing to me but unique and cool does.   Just because it is not the round door Rolls doesn't mean we should compare it to the King of Iran Pierce Arrow for ugliness.

 

Btw,  since the engine is just an 810 Cord,  30-35k will make it run like a charm.

 

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2 minutes ago, alsancle said:

 

Where is the down vote option when you need it?    Movie pedigree means nothing to me but unique and cool does.   Just because it is not the round door Rolls doesn't mean we should compare it to the King of Iran Pierce Arrow for ugliness.

 

Btw,  since the engine is just an 810 Cord,  30-35k will make it run like a charm.

 

The movie history was I assume its second life (but, obviously had enough impact on public to be put into film) - would be interesting to know if Rust Heinz had "movies' on the brain when he built it or ...

 

As to Cord engines - no big deal, but when the Aluminum Cylinder Heads go bad then all hell can break loose (same with Auburn's).  And, not a very expensive engine to do (other than supercharging add a whole dimension of emptying a wallet).

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Color, Judging, Awards ....................hummmmmmm. I have never owned any car or restored it to "win awards" I just don't really care for trophies. We all own the cars we own for different reasons. The reasons can include: the beautiful design, historical  pedigree, size ( bigger is better?), body style ( you can be seen more in an open car ), how important it makes you because you have /own it ( and thus pose beside it for photographs) , because someone in your family owned one before you were born, because that's what movie stars owned, because they only built them in low numbers, because it is just a great pleasure to drive down the road in a 50 to 100 year old machine that still works as it did when new. All kinds of excuses - er reasons 🤩.

Personally regarding color - I like a car that is painted in the period colors available at the time - it can be a car that is painted another makes color not the one specific to your particular make - I love the 1930s "Packard Blue" , but if I own a 1933 Hupmobile and liked that Packard color it would not bother me to see it painted the period color I like. Colors should stay within a reasonable range of years to look authentic and represent the era but yet also please your needs. Contrasting colors can work if they are in the same "family" of colors  and are in harmony - two shades of green would look great but not one that is very light in color and the other much much darker.

I want to see the lines of the car, how the sheet metal flows as did the manufacturers when they built the car 50 to 100+ years ago. They didn't want you to just see a color , they wanted you and all the other perspective customers to see how great a design they thought their car was compared to the competition.

I do not feel that I am a "color expert" I do not believe in the word expert , there is no such person , being , whatever. I value most highly the historic heritage of the vehicles - cars and trucks ( trains, airplanes , ocean liners, zeppelins ) and like to see something that truly represents the era in which they were made. It makes a statement and impression on many who see it if it is done properly and "of the era" . Yes, you own the car but you are sharing it with so many people - car and non car collectors,  kids, any and all kinds of folks. If you aren't sure it will cost some $ but have a quart of color mixed, get a piece of 12 " x 12 " masonite, prime it sand it to the level you would a body panel and then paint it in the color of that quart. Yes, it will cost $ and take time to do but with a panel that size you will get the true picture of what it will look like, a color chip the size of a postage stamp won't do that for you.

There are a few of us that can see a car finished ( fender, body, belt line, wheels, pin stripe  ) painted in our minds and know what will work.  Most people can't.  Before you spend any $ on paint do your homework - if you see a car in a similar body mass/size/shape take a photo and study it , blow the photo up so you can see it and it should be much larger then a postcard!

Edited by Walt G
spelling correction (see edit history)
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3 hours ago, edinmass said:

I agree it’s best to use period correct traditional colors, but I have changed it up over the years. Tasteful is what is important, and not transforming a car into a circus wagon. Yet, the circus wagon does have appeal to those who are not familiar with cars. The most successful trophy winning car I ever worked with was a totally incorrect metal flake with pearl in it. The color was totally modern, but fit the car well. It often beat much better cars in competition. It literally won a trophy every time it went out......and I’m not talking about a cruise night show. It’s the 1935 Auto Show car........

F9FD8064-5AD9-483F-86D2-EF721A9B7B12.jpeg

 

 

 

The car was originally canary yellow......I have photos of the car on the show stand, and in black and white it looks like a white car. In fact, it was BRIGHT yellow. They made a handful of 35 V-12 roadsters, and four were bright yellow.

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On 8/7/2020 at 9:47 AM, Walt G said:

 I have never owned any car or restored it to "win awards" I just don't really care for trophies. We all own the cars we own for different reasons.

My mom generally has for years popped the plates of the trophies and donated them to the local boy scouts - they recycle them for Pinewood Derby awards.  

That said, the Concours d'Elegance events have great awards and I especially love the Dayton Concours d'Elegance awards. 

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I used to own a V-12 production Silver Arrow, that thing ruled the road.  70 mph, solid as a rock, and the fellow who bought it from me went much faster once....
 

Part of the design taken from the show car, not 100% successful but still striking and interesting cars....

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If every restoration was truly a restoration, the vehicle would be the exact color when it left the factory or coach builder. Of course that would eliminate a lot of talk in the hobby.

 

Henry Feinberg

Edited by parrts
Forgot to put in my name. (see edit history)
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27 minutes ago, parrts said:

If every restoration was truly a restoration, the vehicle would be the exact color when it left the factory or coach builder. Of course that would eliminate a lot of talk in the hobby.

 

Henry Feinberg


If you’re talking the exact color that exact car left the factory, then very few cars would meet your criteria. In most cases it would be difficult if not impossible to determine this color, unless the car is a great original, or some documentation exists.  Few if ay 80-120 year old cars were coded to show color.

 

If you mean the exact color a car COULD have left the factory, then that’s a little easier to research, although it wasn’t until the late twenties that “color and style” departments were created at many automobile manufacturers.

 

As to “the factory would paint it any color”, I think that was a rare occurrence, except in very high end cars.  And, some color combinations might be rejected if deemed inappropriate.  The customer is not always right, if the company they’re making the request of is on solid financial ground.

 

The story is told of a customer complaining about his brakes, and wanted his Bugatti sent back to the factory for better ones.  The response from Ettore Bugatti was “Sir, I make my cars to go, not to stop”....

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