Painting from ground up

[jeff53]

I need some experts on this one- 1st what you need to know to answer correctly--- 1. Since 2017 I had a professional auto painter start painting my '48 (2nd) 2020 and all that was done was the hood/trunk lid and 4 doors was primed with MarHyde Epoxy Primer/Surfacer.  3. I will have to do the finishing of it- I explained in detail what was on the car to the Auto Store I was the one that would have to finish the body /roof and fenders and they were down to the metal told them what product was already on the doors and other parts.. They gave me MP170 Epoxy to finish that part--- so MP170 ( PPG) And Mar Hyde Epoxy are both on the car... I was told my next step was to scuff up the epoxy put Urethane Primer Filler on next...... Here's the problem I'm not experienced but I believe I can do it. However I have serious lung issues and putting on the Proper PPE and breathing was hard with the epoxy.......I don't want to use a spray gun to finish the job--- because once mixed everything has a short shelf life-- and with the epoxy I had to take a lot of breaks and use a nebulizer... Duplicolor/ Rustoleum and Others all make a "primer filler" in rattle cans just not urethane based--- with rattle cans I know I don't have to worry about shelf life/pot life... With rattle cans I can take longer breathing breaks and or come back the next day and continue--- I am quite aware of there's a lot of extra cost..... but it's a lot cheaper than hosp./or doc. visits and easier to do than trying find and losing more money on yet a 3rd professional auto painter... Can I put those rattle can filler on and then finish with the same brand rattle can--- I don't want to do it this way- but at this point I'm just watching money go down the drain- the car isn't going to be in a show--- and nothing like being told 3 years ago "Wow This car has almost no rust- then sit and watch it rust before your eyes- surface rust is still metal that gone.--- Once again- right now the car is covered with Mar-Hyde epoxy primer surfacer  AND Omni MP170 epoxy.... The finish was going to be Omni - my end goal is to find another way- to finish "WITHOUT USING URETHANE or the spray gun--- It'snot going to be judged or for show- but I do want it to at least look decent....I'll put up photos later- for answers if needed-- thank you guys.

[W_Higgins]

From what you describe with your lung issues, the sub-par materials you're proposing to use, and your criteria that it doesn't need to be show quality, see if you can find a MAACO (or equivalent in your area) that will just knock it out and get it done for you.  You will still get a higher quality job than what you are proposing to do at home without exposing yourself to the health risks.  

 

 

 

 

[TerryB]

At a recent visit to my family doctor he told me about having his 1956 Chevy wagon painted by a mobile paint guy that does farm and construction equipment.  It was two stage paint and the doc buffed it out himself.  He had a young guy going to an auto body training program help him with the prep work.  

[joe_padavano]

If breathing is an issue, get a supplied air breathing system. HobbyAir is one brand. This is a much better solution, both from a personal safety standpoint and from a paint materials quality standpoint. The air supply pump goes outside the painting area so you are drawing only fresh air.

 

Edited July 11, 2020 by joe_padavano (see edit history)

[TAKerry]

Need some more info. First I can understand your frustration, you are not the first person I have heard this story from. Is the car assembled? If not, you might want to do that first. I would second giving MAACO a shot at it. I believe they are locally owned and you may have to check out a couple before you find one that will do the job. I had talked to my local shop a few years ago when I did my car. I was to do all of the prep and they were going to shoot the top coat. In the end after spraying all of the primers on I figured what the heck and ended up doing the paint/CC too.  Unless I missed something your car is a 1948 model, which by standards is probably a somewhat large car. I would bet that maaco would charge upwards of $3k-maybe? 

Have you priced materials? Paint is not cheap, especially one spray bomb at a time and while the aforementioned fresh air mask is the cats meow, they are not cheap either. Between the supplies and air mask youre already close to $1500 or better towards a paint job.

Now this ONE is going to sound REALLY CRAZY, but if you just want colour and quality is a very low priority, get the rustoleum enamel by the gallon can. Get a small foam paint roller (we call them hot dog rollers), put a bit of flo-trol in the paint so that it evens out nice and smooth and go to town. We paint steel doors, jambs etc. all the time this way and the paint comes out as smooth as a babies butt! IF you want a bit more work, you should be able to lay down a couple of heavy coats and then buff and polish (i admit i have never buffed or polished rustoleum). Lots of smarter guys on here than me but I thought I read at one time that the early Rolls Royce cars were brush painted then buffed.

[jeff53]

To Mr. Higgins- I thought about Maaco and my boy Earl ( no longer around)- Maaco I would do in a flash but there's none close- approx.80 mi. to the closest one and my cars not road worthy-or legal.

To Terry B.- Isn't a 2 stage paint -the paint and an activator? Both of which I trying to avoid--- fumes are terrible and were terrible with the MP170 and it was what the store guy called 2 stage ( I think)-  The filler he gave me is the "urethane filler",  an activator , and a "reducer- 4:1:1: Plus whatever you mention- the most important was you didn't mention  several things--- what brand??  Is it Urethane?Enamel? or Lacquer? and sine I mentioned I'm NOT a pro Will those paints adhere to /stick/ not peel off- If I use them with Mar-Hyde Epoxy Primer Surfacer and PPG brand Omni MP170 ( I think that was a "single stage- just the paint and activator) Primer is pretty easy to put on-  because you're going to have to sand it later anyhow- so you don't need to be a pro ( it'll save you sanding if you are)

joe_padavano-- looks great if I had more than 1 car- (next car I'll have towed to another city after a ton of research) or towed the 80 plus miles to find a Maaco. If I had  to do The list of cars you do or did I wouldn't hesitate--- I have at the most- 4 stages left from what I'm told- the rest is just labor and I'm an X factory rat with really bad lungs --so the work so the work won't hurt

 

[TerryB]

Two stage was base coat with clear coat.  The person spaying did all the painting in the doc’s garage that was vented with fans.  Doc buffed out the clear coat with buffing compounds.  The traveling painter does several vehicles a week and apparently is good at it!  Not a show finish but really good. I saw the docs car and it looked really good.  

Edited July 11, 2020 by TerryB (see edit history)

[jeff53]

To TAKerry-- yes I have priced materials-- I already have a quart of the final coat color- and to put it into rattle cans It would cost about $120-130 bucks and I would get about 8. (15 bucks each can)

It's kind of not the cost anymore- it's the cost of weighing- so do I risk it and hope I my wife doesn't beat me half to death for having to run me to spend more money saying high to everyone at the hosp.docs office or put on a decent rattle can job- be done with it- a paint job lasting almost 3 years is ridiculous and I'm not qualified, have the right space , the experience or the lungs to finish it right-. I only put the Omni MP170 on because that's what the auto store recommended-- but the fumes were really hard on me-- then the store said I needed to put "URETHANE BASED PRIMER FILLER ON" that's when I thought I'm either in trouble- because of the fumes or need to start checking out rattle cans- and with my having to start and stop a lot and maybe not continue 'til the next day- got me worried about the pot life or shelf life and sure enough that would be a product wasted and money down the drain-if I had to stop in the middle of applying it...

    Yes the car is a small land yacht-- or very large tub. I was plan on painting it the original 2 tone with and update of just being the same colors- just a nice metallic.

        I had no interest in learning to paint a car ... but this kind of feel into my hands- and just kind of tired of losing money and getting it back thru court

           In short- my main problem right now is what brand of rattle paint FILLER would adhere to the Omni MP170 and The Mar-Hyde Epoxy primer surfacer. ( been told the "filler is the last painting step before the base coat or color coat ( whatever it's called)

[jeff53]

Terry B. I'm sorry but I most not be too clear- ( my mistake) a traveling painter guy doesn't do me any good unless he's willing to get paid AFTER the job is Completed--- I've already lost a sh*t load on deposits and wasted almost a year in the courts on the 1st "professional auto painter". 2,nd you don't mention his name or where he travels too- so again that's no help. You don't mention the brand of paint- and whether or not it comes in a rattle can or adheres to/ sticks to or doesn't peel off-- of again--- Mar Hyde epoxy primer surfacer or PPG-MP170--- that's what is on the car now- and I'm told the next step is "Primer Filler" and again- I have some that is a 4:1:1 and URETHANE- and because of my lungs and very little experience and just want to get the car coated and finished after 21/2 -3 years-- I just want to be done with it- but I'm trying to at least have it look kind of good

[jeff53]

Has anyone used Dupli Color/ Krylon and I saw one on the Haderty site called Automotive Restorer( I think) or any other brand on to of the Epoxy Primers I mentioned. Sounds like rustoleum I need to stay away from.. I'm trying to keep away from URETHANE FILLER..  unless it comes in a rattle can

 

Edited July 11, 2020 by jeff53 (see edit history)

[Matt Harwood]

I think that the advice about using MAACO or some other inexpensive bodyshop is your best bet. You're trying to find a workaround and use a mixture of materials and brands that may or may not work properly together. Add in your health issues that may even be exacerbated by the whole painting process, and, well, finding a buddy with a trailer or even paying for a flatbed ride the 80 miles to the MAACO shop might be money well spent. I've had two cars painted by MAACO and as long as I did the disassembly and prep work, I got pretty good results. The spraying of the paint is the easiest part of the job, so they do that well. They also have the tools, the equipment, the facility, and the paints so you get a system that works and the final result will be far better than you trying to do it at home with spray cans. They will spot things you may not and even if they aren't the greatest bodyshop in the world, the guys there at least have experience using the materials and what to look for on any job, which is an intangible part of any task that you can only learn with experience. They already have it, and that's often worth a few extra bucks.

 

Paint is the kind of thing that is immediately obvious when it's not done properly. It's the #1 thing people see on a car and it is the main thing that will always frustrate you in the future if it doesn't turn out well. It's a difficult proposition to accept when you're trying to save money, but letting the pros handle a job delivers a superior result with less hassle, and it's often cheaper in the long run. Yes, it's harder to do it piecemeal and spend money a little at a time, but when it comes to a paint job, cut corners are always VERY visible.

 

Good luck!

[The 55er]

This whole thread sounds like a recipe for total disaster for both you (healthwise) and your car (appearance-wise) especially when you start mixing different brands, types, and manufacturers products together. There is no such thing as a quality Rustoleum or rattle can paint job. It will look bad and you will not be happy with it. Also it will not last indefinitely. My advice is to farm the job out to MAACO or equivalent as W_ Higgins originally suggested. Otherwise you will be wasting your time and flushing your money straight down the toilet.

[TAKerry]

I suffer respiratory issues as well, i am sure to a much lesser level than you (op) though. I have a pretty good respirator that i use (not a fresh air makeup) and I still suffer a bit when I paint. If my issues were any worse I dont think I would even risk it. I am in total agreement with the guys that say to 'farm' it out, but I am sure you are quite wary of that, being burnt at least once before. Just throwing this out there for arguments sake: theres a company called 'automotive touch' up that can mix/match just about any paint you want. They sell their product in every form from bottle brush touch up to gallons for the spray gun. They have a product called 'ready to spray' which does not need an activator, and has a very long shelf life. If you want to spray one fender today, not a problem. Put the rest back in the can. It wont go bad, because there is no hardener mixed into it. I have used their stuff before and have been very happy with the final results. Downside is, I dont think they have an equivalent clear. That would have to be mixed and shot all the same time. 'AT' may have a single stage paint that doesnt require a clear coat though. 

[TerryB]

Jeff, the things I posted here were ideas for you to consider.  I’m in PA, not too far from Hershey so it may not be possible to use the same painter.  The paint job with paint and supplies was under $2k, not sure of the exact amount.  

[jeff53]

Matt- I'm not really trying to save money, I'm trying to to waste it anymore around this area- Rattle cans aren't saving money.. I hust can't to find someone that will do the whole job in a reasonable amount of time and without " a huge chuck of money up front... A little  back ground history might help you guys- April 2017- took it to a shop, let them know I would pull off all the bright work and lights-  and told them I wasn't looking for a discount- just didn't want them to have to worry about losing  it cause stuff would be hard to replace and it would be my problem- 6-7 trips later it was all off and since it was only " going to be outside a little while no problem- skip to Aug.2017 still outside now a little water sitting in the trunk and on the floor by the back seat-- it sat thru several storms uncovered- but each time I asked- they would be pulling in "next"..... While having the car I knew it needed windows and window channels " Oh we can do that" okay then add it to everything else--- They pulled out everything okay- but then said " our guy can't put the windows back in- I call a auto window glass place- they go over and say things are now missing and they wouldn't touch it.. oh only paint was scratched up on 3 or 4 panels- but not the complete car.--- in the mean time because they "could do the 11 windows" I ordered all the stuff they needed from Steele-- Finally I had enough- got my car back- short version- We ended up in small claims and I got most not all my money back ( that was the 1st  prof so called certified ASE ( Ithink )shop. 2nd prof. I can finish it for you ( 2017 dec) you  take off the rest of the car  doors hood/ deck lid ect.. bring'em to my shop I'll  prime them and then you bring the whole car here we'll put it back together and I'll put the rest of the primer on it finish any needed body work and paint the whole car at once and we'll take it back to my  garage and put in the windows and weather stripping--- No problem sounds like a plan-- but first He needed a huge deposit- no problem --that was Dec 2017- and I sanded the car down to the metal- again didn't ask to have anything taken off--- here it is 21/2 years later,it's back in my hands or maybe wait 'til next year and no protection on the metal and I had to finish putting the epoxy on, and I did that just about a week ago and that's when I found out hard it would be to finish--- with the fumes and my inexperience- heck had to postpone the upholsterer 3 times- and you should know how hard it is to get in to see them---- anyhow that's when I figure there's got to be a way for me to finish- but I just wasn't sure what brands of paint I could put on top of the Mar-Hyde and MP170.- just wanted to avoid Urethanes ( unless in a can)  activators and reducers because of the fumes--- That's all just looking for another way to do the next step- which I'm told was the "Urethane Filler- with Activator and Reducer--- I only figured rattle cans because 1 I'm not a professional anyhow so there's gonna be flaws and why spend a ton of money on excellent paint if I can't put in on right to begin with( regardless of how hard I try)- Plus Urethane has a pot life  that is very short ( I'm told)--- my breathing alone would or might interfere with that and I may end up buying dbl and working a lot harder redoing stuff. That's why I'm looking for a decent alternative- that won't peel and will stick to the epoxy primer brands already on the car-- Here's a look when I painted the car in rustoleum implement Ford- just to save it from rusting before taking it to the pros----2017( 1ST Photo 16 total cans of rustoleum) 2nd photo- but I wanted a "professional paint job-- April - May - June July and Most of Aug- it took them that long  to scuff up only part of the car  oh and all the nuts and bolts- tossed into a donut box together ( still trying to figure out what goes with what- like the 2 bolt/screw that holds the stone guards inside the wheel wells 1 bolts to the chassy and the other to the wheel well itself- but nothing fits and no sign of them yet). 3rd photo- down to the metal but doors already stripped bare  by me and at the 2nd pro painters place.  So sorry guys for all the goofy question, this might come natural for real gear head- but I was a factory rat and a locksmith and a long haul semi driver--- which none dealt with taking over for a pro.... no picture- but like I mentioned it does have epoxy primer on everything now.

[Bloo]

As someone with respiratory issues, this is not something you should do. It isn't something you should do anyway. First of all, rattle cans do not give good results on panels. You would need to spray and you DO NEED PROPER PROTECTION EQUIPMENT for that. It really doesn't matter if you can afford it or will ever use it again. The paints we used to use in the driveway are no longer available, and anyway were more dangerous than we knew. Today, basically everything is a catalyzed 2-part system, maybe epoxy, maybe urethane. Longevity is better. The trouble is both will kill you. I have two dead friends from that.

 

Google "Isocyanates". You may not like what you see. It soaks in through your skin right out of the air in a spray environment. It is a related chemical to super glue. What we didn't know back in the day, or maybe didn't pay attention to, is that the "hardener" used in Acrylic Enamel and Synthetic Enamel contains that too. If you don't put hardener in, and you get a run or something, and have to spray more paint on to fix it, it will lift and you get to sand the whole panel (or maybe the whole car) back down to the primer and start over. This is also true of Rustoleum. They don't even sell hardener for it but you can get it (Majic or Valspar). I wouldn't want to spray that. Maybe i'd do it with a roller or brush.

 

My friend Dennis sprayed a bunch of Acrylic Enamel and Urethane. You never saw anybody in the sort of moon suit and air pump back in those days like you see now. Just masks and cartridge respirators. It isn't enough, and today the paint supplier will tell you what you need if you ask. Dennis drug around an oxygen tank for the last 8 years of his life and couldn't climb stairs. He had multiple near death experiences in the hospital. He's gone now, as is another friend of mine who sprayed a bunch of paint with hardener in it in the days before air systems....

 

Bodywork is incredibly time consuming. If you have not done it before you have NO idea. Maybe lacquer would be ok if you could get any. It is less dangerous but even more time consuming. At least you can fix your mistakes in lacquer and not have it show.

 

Farm it out. Full stop.

 

Edited July 11, 2020 by Bloo (see edit history)

[jeff53]

Terry B - but what brand??

 55er farm it out would be ideal and I'd jump at it in a flash- and monday I may end up calling Maaco-- just was thinking they would even touch the car if someone already started it.

TAKerry- that's the brand that was being used by the author- of the article on Hagerty website...

    to 55er again-- I know I wouldn't be that happy with rattle cans and am only really wanting to use rattle cans on this Urethane Filler step"... but funny you should pick the exact same words my current professional uses every time I would say " you're just to busy to finish- maybe I should do it in rattle cans and just get it over--- No, No no he would say- you wouldn't be happy with it... 

 I'm miserable now- thinking of how to finish- at 2-3 in the a.m.I'm wide awake and  I'm having coffee trying to be the heat and humidity ( that's makes for some tight chested moments) trying to figure out my next step or searching if there's another decent way- one guy did an excellent job- using Duplicolor ( but just on a small car and painted little fender but no epoxy primer- another guys shows how to get an excellent job with rust O. but again no epoxy and all I've ever heard was how it peels, Haderty article was the best-- but not a single one addressed epoxy prime and the brands it will except -- I already have 2 brands on the car- just not on top of each other... So rattle cans or Maaco now is the choice.. I would use rattle can in a minute if someone said how long it stayed on their car and if it was a different brand other than rust O. Heck I just want to stay asleep again.

[jeff53]

Bloo- sorry to hear about your friends and I do have the proper PPE. it 's an automatic no brainer for me always- my problem is asthma- serious enough for 3 lung procedures in 2017- So I'm quite aware of the danger- that's why I'm digging so hard to find an answer- Farm it out would be a god send and I tried it twice not once.... and I'm at a lost how to finish .So it may not be perfect but at least look decent.... heck at this pace- the no rust anywhere car will be a bucket of rust just sitting there

   

 

 Okay guys- here's the 2nd big what if and be truthful as you can be---- Now assuming Maaco isn't open any longer - and I have to finish in rattle cans- even tho I don't want too. which brand would you proceed with For the " FILLER" with the base coat/ finish color and clear coat if needed)  and that's buying about 16-20 cans. of Filler and 16-20 of Base coat  ( or the color) Only rattle cans will do.

    But now Bloo has me considering house/metal shed type building  paint with UV protection.

Edited July 11, 2020 by jeff53 (see edit history)

[Buick35]

Have you considered trying a wrap on your car? I've heard of them but never seen it in person.

[Buffalowed Bill]

Jeff,

 

Sorry for what you've gone through, it shouldn't have been that tough. Hindsight is 20/20 but I probably would have just used your original paint as a starting paint and worked up from that. I used that method fifty years ago on two cars that I successfully showed, still own today, and I'm still proud of the way that they show. The top coat was different on both cars, and after I had spent hundreds of hours blocking the body. The first was done in lacquer, the second in Centari (acrylic enamel) with a hardener added, and later clear coated the color with Sikkens acrylic. I used a seal coat between the prime coat and top color coat on both. I knew going in that I would be color sanding and buffing was going to be part of the process. I will say that the second car would have been just fine if I hadn't wanted a better job, but I had a professional apply the color.  

 

I'm not recommending that you should have done it this way, or what you are talking about should be the way to go, but you did ask. In your condition I would recommend a Maaco job and hope for the best. Most shops will work with a paint that you choose, but will probably want you to buy it, so that it the job fails they have limited responsibility. 

 

Crash repair shops are a dying breed, and few will do a complete paint job. They like to do spot repair for insurance work. That's where they can make the most. They like to farm the completes to a painter who is geared to that kind of job. In some communities Macco fills that niche. In other communities, another shop is usually around who does the same kind of work. Ask at some body shops who the go to people are for a complete. 

 

Ask the local car people who they use. More often then not there is a hobbyist in the area who will be able to do what you need to do.

Good luck-Bill 

[TerryB]

Where’s Earl Sheib when you need him, any car any color $29.95!

[Guest]

 As a body shop owner, knowing all the things that can. (and do) go wrong, sent it to Maco. 

 An inexperienced painter can make a 1 hour job, last 3 days of 8 hours, and then get a $#!^y job.

 Save your health, patience and money, send it out!

[nickelroadster]

It looks to me to be a big disaster to try to do it yourself, especially with your breathing problems.  Even if a Maaco is eighty miles away, I would find a way to get it there. 

[John348]

2 hours ago, nickelroadster said:

It looks to me to be a big disaster to try to do it yourself, especially with your breathing problems.  Even if a Maaco is eighty miles away, I would find a way to get it there. 

 

I agree 100%, join AAA, get the gold coverage and you are covered for tows up to 100 miles. I think you have to wait a week or two before you call them. AAA Gold or similar service is very good thing to have in this hobby

[Guest]

Sounds like you used a couple of bad shops to start. It's frustrating, I've done the same. You may want to first check out any prospective shops with local car club members. Is there an AACA chapter nearby? Often times they're the best source of up-to-date info on who to use and who to avoid. They may even know of someone local in the business that paints cars on the side. I found a great body repair guy that retired from the local Buick dealership, came highly recommended from a few people in my local club. Ask (call or e-mail, now) around, the more people, the better.

[jeff53]

Okay I want to thank you all- sending it out seems to be my next and best option-and I check and the closest on is about 80 miles away. however it makes me kind of skitzy or gun shy trusting it to another "pro" shop- where I won't be around or have any control.. But seems to be my best option---

    Here's my last question and may be workable........ I know rattle cans are a no..no.. but I think that isn't because of "rattle cans themselves" it's because of the paint companies and quality of the paint- example- No one likes Rust-Oleum because it peels after a year or a few years.

  So here's the question--- without considering the non professional results look--by me.....  

Simple question---- can a person put a color coat/ base coat "DIRECTLY" over Epoxy Primer Surfacer ?? Has anyone actually done it? I know I would have to sand the EPOXY anyway ( it's been past 7 days)...

    But my problem seems to be  the my level of expeirence with a spray gun and this type of paint-shelf/pot life  because I know after mixing- I would run the risk of not being able to finish that same day and possibly end up throwing a bunch of expensive stuff out. and of course the fumes...

     However here's my line of thinking--- It's because Of my breathing problems, wearing the mask which restricts my breathing even more and not being able to stop for long periods....that I don't want to use a spray gun or actually mix the "URETHANE myself.

          However if any of you have gone directly over EPOXY with the color/base coat -- then I could stay with the omni paint I already have- just have them mix it and put in rattle cans---

  That would eliminate the shelf life/pot life worry- I would be able to stop and start however long I needed and not have to throw anything out--- Get rid of most of the measuring and spray gun worries- and most of all get rid of a lot of the fumes.( not all but most)

    So again - is it possible to put the base color coat directly on EPOXY PRIMER SURFACER--- naturally wet sanded first 

[jeff53]

13 hours ago, Roger Walling said:

 As a body shop owner, knowing all the things that can. (and do) go wrong, sent it to Maco. 

 An inexperienced painter can make a 1 hour job, last 3 days of 8 hours, and then get a $#!^y job.

 Save your health, patience and money, send it out!

- And that's exactly the way I plan most things now- if it takes a normal person to do a job in about 3 hours- I allow myself and schedule for a 2 day job... but the mixing and pot life somehow doesn't seem to care- and still goes bad. Going to Maaco seems to be the next to the last option, the towing cost isn't the problem- Main issue is after getting burned by "pros" tahing it 80 miles and not being where I can just run over and check on it- coz seems around here the word " professional craftsman" is a generic term for I get paid to do it so I must be a professional"....

    So I figure they can't do any worse than I can-- but would I pay for someone to do  a job as bad as mine might come out? But would I pay to not have to breath the fumes --- yes- I tried twice maybe the 3rd times a charm...

[jeff53]

5 hours ago, Writer Jon said:

Sounds like you used a couple of bad shops to start. It's frustrating, I've done the same. You may want to first check out any prospective shops with local car club members. Is there an AACA chapter nearby? Often times they're the best source of up-to-date info on who to use and who to avoid. They may even know of someone local in the business that paints cars on the side. I found a great body repair guy that retired from the local Buick dealership, came highly recommended from a few people in my local club. Ask (call or e-mail, now) around, the more people, the better.

I will give it a try- Thanks

[Morgansdad]

Just a thought, we have several Community colleges around here that have an auto body programs. They will and do take cars that need work and will do the work for just the amount of supplies needed. Honestly, they do really good work. Is that an option for you?

[jeff53]

Thanks for all your help guys- I'll consider all the options and just so you know- money is only a consideration but not the bottom line-- because the money bottom line would cost a ton more than towing the cat 160 miles round trip or tossing expired pot life chemicals or paint- 1 sm visit to an E.R. or a 1-2 day Hospital stay would cost a ton more. So while I was just a factory rat tossing money at and over priced trylon- is not where I want to throw the dart... 

    I did find a direct answer to my question which I was actually asking wrong--- ( because I'm not an auto painter).... I should have asked" Can I put the base color coat-- directly over the Epoxy Primer Surfacer??? and skip the Urethane Filler step or if there was a rattle can paint BRAND that would work with my 2 kinds of Epoxy Primer Surfacer---- wrong question to ask...

   To all that this applies to or don't know it--- The answer is a simple--- YES you Can Put a base coat color directly on top of Epoxy Primer Surfacer and go directly to using color coat base.... But you need to let the Epoxy cure- sand to your liking - but don't sand thru epoxy- wet sand seems to be prefered apply your color..... Now with that said- it's recommended and only a recommendation - to use a primer filler  with urethane ( urethane also acts as another moisture  and protection barrier)--- This way it might cost a lot more- but you can have your "Urethane Based Finish coat put into rattle cans" and use the paint brand you choose---- However the pros don't like rattle cans and they are not even prefered by most amateurs- except for small areas-

      Again I'm not an expert and some of this info came from a trusted source we all know--- Eastwood... So rather than trust another pro 80 miles away--- it'll only cost couple of hundred bucks- to find out as oppose $ 1000 or more again. To  me it's kind of like  tipping before the meal- $ 50 dollar meal vs a $10 dollar tip- even if something isn't quite right with the $50 meal.

     Again thanks for all your info- Here's photo with the way it looks now- in about a month or less I'll post a finish color coat ( with luck) Now to fix my next "Professional Craftsman job done by the Amish- but they have at least offered to reimburse/ refund some of the money- they are just to busy to fix it now ( next photo)

[Alex D.]

Have you explored the option of using acrylic enamel? It doesn’t have the toxic fumes that the urethanes have and has a long shelf life if a hardener is not used. At about $120 per gallon and a good respirator it may be an option worth exploring, unless you live in California. https://tcpglobal.com/pages/restoration-shop

[TAKerry]

what part of the country are you located?

[W_Higgins]

2 hours ago, Alex D. said:

Have you explored the option of using acrylic enamel? It doesn’t have the toxic fumes that the urethanes have and has a long shelf life if a hardener is not used. At about $120 per gallon and a good respirator it may be an option worth exploring, unless you live in California. https://tcpglobal.com/pages/restoration-shop

 

This is not true.  Anything atomized (and vapor) and solvent based isn't good for anyone -- healthy or those with lung issues alike.  Aside from that, right there on the site they spec that their product is to be used with a hardener which is the rub with modern paints being more toxic than their predecessors.  The idea that enamels and lacquers are "safe" is a myth.  

 

 

The AE system is an easy 8-1 mixing system, 8 parts AE Color to 1 part AE3001 Urethane Hardener to create a Hi Tech Coating system that is at 2.8 lb./gl VOC as packaged

[erichill]

As others said. Do Not use the inferior products to complete the project. You will have reaction/adhesive issues and in the end will cost more.  You mentioned using Maaco but its 8 miles away. Surely you can get it towed there.  Its sounding like your best bet.

[jeff53]

2 hours ago, Morgansdad said:

Just a thought, we have several Community colleges around here that have an auto body programs. They will and do take cars that need work and will do the work for just the amount of supplies needed. Honestly, they do really good work. Is that an option for you?

 I know  they and Pima Jr college used to do that back in the 70's ... But last I heard- insurance was way too high and a lot of school only let student bring their own registered to them or family cars.

    And yes- most of them  do excellent work--- and they have teachers that specialize in all the different areas. Monday comes I'll try the local place.

        I would really prefer to have it done right- that's why I paid the "pros"- but I am at a no return point and schools might be an option- but another professional shop is out--- besides winter is coming- 1st prof. had the car 4-5 months. and ths 2nd professional said maybe done in spring time- that was spring of 2018- 2019- it would be done around march, oct- 2019 for sure in dec.2019- in 2020 april xxx now it's July- I have to either let it sit yet another year and trust "the pros" or take matters into my own hands and settle on the fact- there are no real pros and to quit searching- because at this rate someone will inherit a huge problem... besides as fast as our generation is dropping off- I want at least one more ride... But I've given up on professionalism and ethics in this area-- I can do this bad all on my own.

 

1 hour ago, TAKerry said:

what part of the country are you located?

 

2 hours ago, Alex D. said:

Have you explored the option of using acrylic enamel? It doesn’t have the toxic fumes that the urethanes have and has a long shelf life if a hardener is not used. At about $120 per gallon and a good respirator it may be an option worth exploring, unless you live in California. https://tcpglobal.com/pages/restoration-shop

33 minutes ago, W_Higgins said:

 

This is not true.  Anything atomized (and vapor) and solvent based isn't good for anyone -- healthy or those with lung issues alike.  Aside from that, right there on the site they spec that their product is to be used with a hardener which is the rub with modern paints being more toxic than their predecessors.  The idea that enamels and lacquers are "safe" is a myth.  

 

 

The AE system is an easy 8-1 mixing system, 8 parts AE Color to 1 part AE3001 Urethane Hardener to create a Hi Tech Coating system that is at 2.8 lb./gl VOC as packaged

 

[Harold]

You should probably take a ride to the Maaco shop and talk to them in person.  It would give you the opportunity to see their work first-hand.  I'd also offer to pay them to come out to the car and give you an estimate.  The job can't be properly estimated with only photos.

[Alex D.]

4 hours ago, W_Higgins said:

 

This is not true.  Anything atomized (and vapor) and solvent based isn't good for anyone -- healthy or those with lung issues alike.  Aside from that, right there on the site they spec that their product is to be used with a hardener which is the rub with modern paints being more toxic than their predecessors.  The idea that enamels and lacquers are "safe" is a myth.  

 

 

The AE system is an easy 8-1 mixing system, 8 parts AE Color to 1 part AE3001 Urethane Hardener to create a Hi Tech Coating system that is at 2.8 lb./gl VOC as packaged

I wasn’t implying that it is safe to use without a respirator just that it is less toxic that the urethanes with activators and hardeners. I have used this acrylic enamel without the hardener with very good results and not having to worry about a short pot life, which was a concern. I found this stuff very similar to the old school PPG Delstar sprayed without hardener.  Someone with respiratory   problems should not even be using rattle cans.

Edited July 12, 2020 by Alex D. (see edit history)

[Guest]

 If you take it to Maco, ask them how soon will it be ready, as you don't want it to take over three weeks.

 Tell them that you will be renting a trailer and don't want to have to rent it twice if it isn't ready.

[jeff53]

3 hours ago, Harold said:

You should probably take a ride to the Maaco shop and talk to them in person.  It would give you the opportunity to see their work first-hand.  I'd also offer to pay them to come out to the car and give you an estimate.  The job can't be properly estimated with only photos.

We will be- Although I found my answer- I keeping my options open only as a back-up though--- getting tired of the new "business ethics". Customer service used to mean real service- now it means- we hired someone to answer the phone and say " I can put you thru to their voicemail... So another pro I'm not to thrilled about

[jeff53]

2 minutes ago, jeff53 said:

We will be- Although I found my answer- I keeping my options open only as a back-up though--- getting tired of the new "business ethics". Customer service used to mean real service- now it means- we hired someone to answer the phone and say " I can put you thru to their voicemail... So another pro I'm not to thrilled about

 Just got my quored estimate back from Maaco- $900-$1500... which isn't to bad at all- I figure I would spend at least a half to 3/4 of that in materials left to buy.. Just need to scrutinize their small [print and meet the people face to face.