Licence Plates woes they are blaming 3M does the USA have these problems or is it just up here in Canada

[Mark Gregory]

Ontario's new licence plates 'virtually unreadable' at night, police officer says

Driving at night comes with challenges from poorly lit roads to headlight glare, but now many Ontarians say there's another thing to worry about — not being able to read the province's new licence plates in the dark.

The blue plates are being heavily criticized on Twitter with many people posting photos of them at night, when all that's visible is a shiny blue rectangle. The numbers and letters are illegible. 

 

The new plates hit the road Feb. 1. They're blue with white numbers and letters, instead of the blue numbers and letters on the older white plates.

Kingston police Sgt. Steve Koopman posted a photo he took of a car in a parking lot and asked, "Did anyone consult with police before designing and manufacturing the new Ontario licence plates? They're virtually unreadable at night."

 

•  

 

Edited February 19, 2020 by Mark Gregory (see edit history)

[joe_padavano]

I'm curious as to how bad it is when viewed in person. A camera can make something like that look much worse than it is.

[Matt Harwood]

One, that looks Photoshopped. It's like he took the photo to show how bad the plates are, but then wiped the numbers so nobody could identify the car. No way to tell.

 

Two, it's from the Daily Mail (Daily Fail), whose reliability and accuracy record is so sketchy, I'm now doubting that a country called Canada even exists.

 

And if it's somehow true, I just can't quite find it in my heart to feel bad about this. I think the folks who own the 407 up in Toronto are angry that their cameras are having trouble seeing the plates and collecting the tolls automatically. The police like to act like it's a safety thing (how often are they calling in a plate during the heat of chasing a real criminal? Like 0.3% of the time?). The truth is that it just makes it harder for them to be revenue collectors and now their jobs may actually involve paying attention or --gasp!-- getting out of the car instead of letting the plate-scanning cameras do their work for them.

 

Too bad. Not sad. Suck it ticket-generators.

 

 

Edited February 19, 2020 by Matt Harwood (see edit history)

[padgett]

No photo red light identification ?

[46 woodie]

That plate almost looks like that spray they sell for your plates to avoid red light and speed cameras. Looks like our northern neighbors won't have to buy it.

[Terry Bond]

Here in Va those tinted plastic plate covers are really popular.  I think they are illegal but I see them so frequently I doubt anyone cares.

Terry

[54vicky]

I agree with Matt on the toll thieves that was my first thought.apparently they are going to look into no matter it will bill taxpayers as usual for a rush(read RASH) by our donald to draw attention from real needs

[Billy Kingsley]

Ontario has had those white field/blue letter setup for a long time. I don't remember how long, anyone know? I seem to vaguely recall a different design in the 80s, perhaps early 90s. 

[8E45E]

3 hours ago, Billy Kingsley said:

Ontario has had those white field/blue letter setup for a long time. I don't remember how long, anyone know? I seem to vaguely recall a different design in the 80s, perhaps early 90s. 

I believe 1973 was the first year for the blue lettering on white background when they became multi-year plates.  What did change over the years was the one-liner on the top.

 

Craig

[John_S_in_Penna]

13 hours ago, 46 woodie said:

That plate almost looks like that spray they sell for your plates to avoid red light and speed cameras. ...

 

I read an article a few years ago, I think in the 

Wall Street Journal, that said the red-light cameras

not only read all the license plates that go by, but

they STORE and KEEP the data.  That's useful for

tracking and finding a possible criminal, but it also

means that government can track everyone's whereabouts,

the article said.  Imagine what a tyrannical regime could

do with knowing the routes and habits of dissenters and,

in fact, all of its citizens--- 

[Mark Gregory]

This information is from main stream news outlets here in Ontario.

Before this fiasco most of the stencilling on the plates peeled off to the bare metal.

 

https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/government-admits-flaw-in-new-ontario-licence-plates-a-day-after-defending-design-1.4818403

Premier Ford has personally spoken to the President of 3M on two separate occasions seeking an immediate solution to the issues identified with their product."

"The Government of Ontario expects 3M to stand by their product. We are working with them on a path forward and will have more to say shortly." 

Meanwhile on Wednesday, 3M Canada confirmed they are working with the government to address the concerns.

"At 3M we are focused on applying our innovation and technology and are committed to working together with all stakeholders during design, testing and deployment," 3M said in a statement. 

"We stand behind our products and are actively providing solutions to the Ontario government to address the readability issue as quickly as possible." 

MADD Canada expresses concern over new licence plates 

Earlier Wednesday, Mothers Against Drunk Driving Canada (MADD Canada) joined those criticizing the Ontario government’s licence plate design, calling the “night-time visibility issues” a “serious concern.”

[Mark Gregory]

We had trouble here before with this.

I understand the Steel blanks for the plates came from the USA

So there is no Northern State with same weather experiencing this problem ?

 

Flanagan said Service Ontario started receiving complaints about deteriorating licence plates around October 2012.

If someone has a peeling or cracking plate, she said they should come to a Service Ontario Centre. Plates can be replaced under the warranty for free for up to five years. After that, people have to pay for new plates, she said.

Flanagan said Service Ontario has not noticed any pattern to the defective plates.

"We're working with our manufacturer to determine the cause," she said.

All license plates in Ontario are made by Trilcor Correctional Industries, which markets products made by Ontario prisoners, to federal, provincial and municipal governments, as well as school boards and not-for-profit organizations.

According to information on the Ministry of Community Safety and Correctional Service's website,Trilcor also makes items such as inmate clothing, bike racks for the Ministry of Natural Resources, and pen and pencil sets for the Ontario Public Service.

[Matt Harwood]

46 minutes ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

 

I read an article a few years ago, I think in the 

Wall Street Journal, that said the red-light cameras

not only read all the license plates that go by, but

they STORE and KEEP the data.  That's useful for

tracking and finding a possible criminal, but it also

means that government can track everyone's whereabouts,

the article said.  Imagine what a tyrannical regime could

do with knowing the routes and habits of dissenters and,

in fact, all of its citizens--- 

 

Seen these little scanners mounted on your local police cars?

 

 

 

Those are license plate scanners, specifically designed to read license plates at speed in all directions, up to 100 yards away. Cruise through a parking lot and they already know who's there. On the road, it's collecting data on who is out driving. They know when you buy groceries and where. They know where your girlfriend's house is. Car in the same place more than two or three days in a row? Logged and marked for follow-up. And if a license plate with a warrant attached shows up, BOOM! RED ALERT!

 

As the victim of identity theft with multiple arrest warrants in my name (that I didn't earn, obviously) when these things showed up about five years ago my life got exponentially more miserable on the road. I went from being pulled over about once every five or six months when a cop was behind me at a red light and ran my plates to being pulled over twice a week. Those things would read my plate, the warrant(s) would pop up, and the cop would spring into action. Older cops would usually listen, look at the paperwork I provided, and understand that I'm not the guy they're looking for. If it was a young guy, I knew I was screwed--he was going to be a hero. I can't tell you how many times a 23-year-old officer took my folder of documentation, threw it back into the car, and said, "Tell it to the judge." I've been strip searched, I've had a panicky little rookie call in reinforcements with body armor and assault gear, I've been handcuffed more times than a crack dealer, and fifteen years ago, I even had my Mustang left by the side of the road WITH THE KEYS IN IT while they took me to the station for a few hours--I can't believe it was still there when I got back. My old cars have YOM plates that I never bothered to register. I'd rather risk whatever ticket I'd get for a bad plate rather than connecting those plates with my name. I can only imagine what the cops would do if they impounded the '29 Cadillac.

 

Even putting all my cars in Melanie's name only slowed it down for a little while, but now she gets pulled over because she's a "known associate" thanks to this database and because our cars are frequently spotted together in our parking lot at work, where cruisers regularly drive through diligently collecting their data. I run a dealer plate now, which seems to have slowed it down, but if a cop is bored it still pops up as a connection in their database and they sometimes spring into action. The last guy came up to my window with his gun out--for Pete's sake, I'm a middle-aged guy in a station wagon talking about superheros with my 11-year-old son, not some desperado. It's embarrassing.

 

They ARE watching. They ARE tracking. And if I could get a plate that was unreadable, I'd do it in a heartbeat. I see this "issue" as a feature, not a bug.

[Brass is Best]

License plates used to be 2 colors with high contrast. 

Edited February 20, 2020 by Brass is Best (see edit history)

[JACK M]

I think eight different formats in current issue in Oregon, with several more additional themes.

Of coarse you would pay extra should you be a Blazer fan or a fisherman etc.

Pretty sure the vets, fire fighters and such get a deal though.

 

https://www.oregonlive.com/multimedia/2014/11/oregon_license_plates.html
 

Just read, 55 choices.

Edited February 20, 2020 by JACK M (see edit history)

[coachJC]

I was driving down the QEW just outside Hamilton yesterday, in the middle lane was a new Mercedes SUV with a new blue license plate on it right in front of me and a car in the left lane with a 1yr old Blue lettered on white background, I could not read the numbers on the new blue plate in front of me but I could on the car to my left with the old style plate.

 

The peeling plates that we had trouble with were from a batch that started with BXXX-***, and you could have them replaced free of change at the license bureau. I had to take in a set off my wife's Ford Flex as the paint had peeled right off.

[8E45E]

4 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

 

Seen these little scanners mounted on your local police cars?

 

 

 

Those are license plate scanners, specifically designed to read license plates at speed in all directions, up to 100 yards away. Cruise through a parking lot and they already know who's there. On the road, it's collecting data on who is out driving. They know when you buy groceries and where. They know where your girlfriend's house is. Car in the same place more than two or three days in a row? Logged and marked for follow-up. And if a license plate with a warrant attached shows up, BOOM! RED ALERT!

 

As the victim of identity theft with multiple arrest warrants in my name (that I didn't earn, obviously) when these things showed up about five years ago my life got exponentially more miserable on the road. I went from being pulled over about once every five or six months when a cop was behind me at a red light and ran my plates to being pulled over twice a week. Those things would read my plate, the warrant(s) would pop up, and the cop would spring into action. Older cops would usually listen, look at the paperwork I provided, and understand that I'm not the guy they're looking for. If it was a young guy, I knew I was screwed--he was going to be a hero. I can't tell you how many times a 23-year-old officer took my folder of documentation, threw it back into the car, and said, "Tell it to the judge." I've been strip searched, I've had a panicky little rookie call in reinforcements with body armor and assault gear, I've been handcuffed more times than a crack dealer, and fifteen years ago, I even had my Mustang left by the side of the road WITH THE KEYS IN IT while they took me to the station for a few hours--I can't believe it was still there when I got back. My old cars have YOM plates that I never bothered to register. I'd rather risk whatever ticket I'd get for a bad plate rather than connecting those plates with my name. I can only imagine what the cops would do if they impounded the '29 Cadillac.

 

Even putting all my cars in Melanie's name only slowed it down for a little while, but now she gets pulled over because she's a "known associate" thanks to this database and because our cars are frequently spotted together in our parking lot at work, where cruisers regularly drive through diligently collecting their data. I run a dealer plate now, which seems to have slowed it down, but if a cop is bored it still pops up as a connection in their database and they sometimes spring into action. The last guy came up to my window with his gun out--for Pete's sake, I'm a middle-aged guy in a station wagon talking about superheros with my 11-year-old son, not some desperado. It's embarrassing.

 

They ARE watching. They ARE tracking. And if I could get a plate that was unreadable, I'd do it in a heartbeat. I see this "issue" as a feature, not a bug.

Don't forget, if your vehicle has One-Star or Nav., it can be tracked on private property in a closed garage or a parkade, and of course if you are carrying a Smartphone around with you, one doesn't have to be in their vehicle to know where you are.

 

Craig

[Matt Harwood]

1 hour ago, 8E45E said:

Don't forget, if your vehicle has One-Star or Nav., it can be tracked on private property in a closed garage or a parkade, and of course if you are carrying a Smartphone around with you, one doesn't have to be in their vehicle to know where you are.

 

Craig

 

Yeah, I don't mind the watching and tracking so much as I mind the arresting and strip searching and hand-cuffing. As far as I know, OnStar doesn't call in a SWAT team on me when I'm getting gas.

 

 

Edited February 20, 2020 by Matt Harwood (see edit history)

[Frank DuVal]

10 hours ago, JACK M said:

Just read, 55 choices.

 

That's not many!  Virginia has over 200 styles!😉

 

Virginia did issue an Autumn Leaf plate that was recalled at first, as the first design had reddish leaves all over the plate, obscuring the plate number! They quickly made new plates with the leaves just around the border so the plate number could be seen on a white background. This version still available.

 

https://www.dmv.virginia.gov/vehicles/#splates/results.asp?Name=Autum

[dei]

I've posted this somewhere on the Forums before but will again relate an experience that happened to my Dad concerning the cameras on what was the new 407 toll road.

 

He received an official looking letter from the 407 Toll Road Department and upon reading it read that he was fined 38 dollars for speeding and if not paid in full within 10 days of the date of the letter it would rise to 85 dollars!

 

To put this in perspective, we live in the Southwestern most part of Ontario. If we were anymore south west we would be in Michigan!

The 407 Highway takes one north of the 401 supposedly avoiding the heavy traffic in Toronto but is a toll road (not unlike the States) but without toll booths. Initially fees were mailed to you instead of paying upon leaving the Toll Road system.

Checking the date and time of the supposed infraction Dad knew he wasn't within three hours of that location on that date so was surprised and fuming at the latter.

When we studied it further we checked the license plate number and guess what plate it was from?

His 1920 Overland touring with it's official Historic Plate!

In Ontario we still have both front and back plates so even "if" the car had been on a trailer and Dad "had" been on that road, clearly the stationary cameras would have had to capture the plate at the back to get her number, if they even do that...

Dad called the long distance number and tried to explain to the person about his antique car not being in the area (or ever for that matter) and likely there was a mistake of some kind as a then 70 something year old vehicle could NOT SPEED, if you will for heavens sake....

The operator was of no help and told him to take it to traffic court! Huh? Drive three and a half hours to fight something as clearly illogical as this!?

Needless to say the 10 days passed and the fine rose to the $85 before Dad tried to call again. This time the operator gave him another phone number to call saying they might be able to help him.

This third call was finally successful when listened to rationally and was resolved but not before Dad receiving another FINAL letter stating it was now 175 dollars and if not paid, there would be a warrant put out! 

Remember, the internet in the 90's was a relatively new thing for the likes of my Dad's generation so speaking on a land phone was the only way to get action, so a fourth call to the last gentleman assured him things would be removed connecting him to the fines and such.

Guess it was, as he never heard anything more, not even a sorry. LOL

 

Funny thing about the 407. I recall reading that the Province soon decided after completion, to get out of managing the Toll roads and contracted out that job. Obviously that company took their pay out before the Province got back the money supposedly slated for the many miles of road maintenance. 

I later read (if I'm correct..) that when that contract was up it was awarded to a company out of Canada....

 

  

 

Edited February 21, 2020 by dei (see edit history)

[8E45E]

17 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

 

Yeah, I don't mind the watching and tracking so much as I mind the arresting and strip searching and hand-cuffing. As far as I know, OnStar doesn't call in a SWAT team on me when I'm getting gas.

 

 

One of our chapter members always counts on a two-to-four hour wait while crossing the border into the US, even though he has a clearance letter from the RCMP.  He has the same first and last name of someone who also happened to be born the same year and in the same province as him who has served jailtime for attempted robbery, rape, you name it.  Every time he enters the US, his name is 'red flagged' and gets stuck having to sit in the interrogation room at the border crossing.  He has been handcuffed and strip-searched on a few occasions while under interrogation at the border over the past 40 or more years.

 

Craig

[cheezestaak2000]

funny thing happened a few years back. delaware stopped making tags in state. they got a bid to do it cheaper in, of all  places, canada.