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I have a 1936 Dodge that looks nice, but runs badly indeed. Valves loud, etc, etc...

I'm not as knowledgeable as I wish I was.

I just bought the car here in Canada.  The old owner bought the car from his brother in 1961,  again, all this occurring in Canada. I'm told its a Canadian made car.

Presently it has a Mopar 23 1/2" block.  Last owner told me he'd bought this engine in Ohio, years back to get the car running.  This makes sense.  It appears to be a US block. Surprisingly (to me) there’s about 3"  space between the back of the block and the firewall. Just lifting the hood, you can easily see the bell-housing bolting to the block because of this 3" gap.

Questions:

1) What engine did this car come with originally ?  How can I find this out  ?

What year did they started putting the  25 1/2 block in Dodges in Canada ?

2) I have a new 25 1/2" (longer) engine I'd like to bolt in - with a (new) original 37 Borg Warner overdrive.  Any advice ?  Will it bolt in ? What problems should I expect ?

My guess is it may have had a 25 1/2" block originally because:

- there is that 3" gap between end of block and the firewall

- (I'm told) its a Canadian car, and the longer 25 1/2" block was almost always used in Canada.

3) Should I try using existing FRONT motor mounts altering the back Motor mounts ?  Or the other way round :  Move the  rad forward (there's room) - using existing back motor mounts and alter front motor mounts ?

4) Anyone done this 'swap to a longer Mopar block' first hand ?

5) Lastly, brakes scare me.  One chambered Master cylinder ? And I hope to put in an overdrive ?  Any ideas as to how to ensure it stops reliably ? I'd like to keep existing wheels, but I want to stop.

Thanking you in advance (!!) 

PS. I also need tail-light stands for a 35 Plymouth. My stands measure  7 3/8" total length tip to top. (The 'pot' is extra.)

Peter

<pdmudry@gmail.com>

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1936 Dodge 1 .JPG

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I could be wrong, but that Gap looks pretty normal to me.  I can't go check mine right now, but I wouldn't want it much closer to the firewall.  

 

Are you just trying to get the "correct" engine?  Personally, I'd leave it if it works.

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That's a nice looking car! I pretty sure that the U.S. cars used the 218 engine which was the shorter one. I think export cars may have had the 201 depending on where they were shipped which is also a short block. I agree, I wouldn't fool with it if it runs well. To use an overdrive , I believe that you'd have to shorten the driveshaft. Original brakes, if working correctly will provide good stopping !

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What a beautiful car you have.  I have a 1936 rumble seat coupe that I hope to drive again someday.  If it were my car, I would locate and original engine and take my time restoring the engine to new condition while I enjoyed driving it with the engine in it now.  Best of both worlds that way.  When I was driving mine, every day, I never had any problems at all with it stopping with the original brake set up.

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OMG you didn't say you bought a *CONVERTIBLE*!!!  Beautiful.
Here's a shot of the engine in my 36 four door sedan.  It's definitely the original engine per the build record microfilm image.  Gap looks the same to me.
 

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Oh, as for the 35 Plymouth tail lights, what body style is the car?  Some have the lights mounted on the fenders (as in your convertible) and others mount to the sides of the body (touring coupe/sedan).  I have a pair of very nice tail lights from a 36 Plymouth touring sedan.

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Dear Folks !

 

Thank You Very Much - to each and every one of you responding !!!  Very Helpful !

 

Though I'd much like to reply to each person individually, I'm a "newbie" to this site and  I'll 'mess up' just trying to reply to everyone in one message, let alone trying to respond to each person in turn as they deserve.

Let's see if I get this single message of reply posted...

 

It was very helpful indeed to see the picture of the 36 Engine compartment, which does look like my spacing.  The comments were likewise very helpful, because they show that both my car and the pic provided were not -  'coincidence' - but instead the general consensus.

 

Sadly I'm getting older, and want to drive the car SOON - and want it running well sooner rather than later.  (The more sensible option, was suggested by those who wrote in !)  I was also helped by the brake comments. Yep, perhaps I should try to get the original brakes working - so what they are like - and go from there.

 

Lastly, to the helpful gent who provided the pics of his tail-light stands Thank You !  The tail-light stands I  need for my 35 Plymouth, are not the same as those pictured on the 36 Dodge earlier, above.  You asked for body style; there's now a pic below.

 

Its a different car, of which I've not posted pictures. (Sorry for the confusion.)  The 35 Plymouth Tail-light

stands I need measure  7 3/8 "  from Tip to start of the pot.  If anyone has some - or some ideas how I could get a pair - I gratefully look forward to hearing from you...

 

Here is a pic of the tail-light stands I hope for; one of the car...

Peter

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If you are going to keep the brakes original -- I have everything in ++ NEW ++

Fresh stock parts --

The Master Cylinder, the Wheel Cylinders, the Brake Hoses, and the Brake Shoes in ++ Asbestos ++ for nice smoooooth braking....

 

If you can call the U.S.A. for free --- Always best to simply call me --

Craig -- 516 - 485 - 1935 --- West Hempstead, Long Island, New York....

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Caution about buying new rear wheel cylinders. Dodge used stepped cylinders on the front and rear. New correct size rear cylinders, to the best of my knowledge, are not available. The originals must be resleeved. New fronts used to be available and may still be. I have the old United numbers if you need them for cross reference.

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I think some clarification is in order.  At least I need some.
The title of this thread is "1936 Dodge" but you you just joined the group and made your profile name is "36 Plymouth 40 Dodge" -- why is that?
You say that you think your 36 Dodge was built in Canada.  This should be easy to establish because, while the US market 1936 Dodge was classified as the D2, the 1936 Dodges built in Windsor, ON for the Canadian market were essentially 1936 Plymouths (P1 and P2) cars.  They used the Plymouth body, engine, and drivetrain and had minor trim differences including the grille and were designated the D3 and D4.  Serial numbers for the D3 and D4 start with 93 and 94 respectively.  The serial number plate is attached to the front, RH door hinge pillar.  Total Canadian production was very low compared to US market production.  Just 6827 Canadian-built cars vs. the 265,005 built in the US.  Checking the serail number plate on your Dodge will tell you exactly what you have.
What is the serial number on the engine in your car?  The number is stamped on the left side of the block above the generator.
You do own the maroon convertible, right?
You don't own the rodded 1935 Dodge touring sedan?  You included that pic to show the style tail light your are looking for?  For a 1935 Plymouth? That has the trunk setup like the rodded car does?
The tail light stands on that rodded car look like aftermarket custom items to me.  They look too fragile to be OEM.  I don't recall ever seeing such long stands on any stock 35 or 36 Dodge or Plymouth

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i want to see the front of your car, beautiful ride. man that's a sleek car, especially with the convertible. 

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2 hours ago, Pete in PA said:

I think some clarification is in order.  At least I need some.
The title of this thread is "1936 Dodge" but you you just joined the group and made your profile name is "36 Plymouth 40 Dodge" -- why is that?
You say that you think your 36 Dodge was built in Canada.  This should be easy to establish because, while the US market 1936 Dodge was classified as the D2, the 1936 Dodges built in Windsor, ON for the Canadian market were essentially 1936 Plymouths (P1 and P2) cars.  They used the Plymouth body, engine, and drivetrain and had minor trim differences including the grille and were designated the D3 and D4.  Serial numbers for the D3 and D4 start with 93 and 94 respectively.  The serial number plate is attached to the front, RH door hinge pillar.  Total Canadian production was very low compared to US market production.  Just 6827 Canadian-built cars vs. the 265,005 built in the US.  Checking the serail number plate on your Dodge will tell you exactly what you have.
What is the serial number on the engine in your car?  The number is stamped on the left side of the block above the generator.
You do own the maroon convertible, right?
You don't own the rodded 1935 Dodge touring sedan?  You included that pic to show the style tail light your are looking for?  For a 1935 Plymouth? That has the trunk setup like the rodded car does?
The tail light stands on that rodded car look like aftermarket custom items to me.  They look too fragile to be OEM.  I don't recall ever seeing such long stands on any stock 35 or 36 Dodge or Plymouth

Hi Pete

I'd like to correct your information on the Canadian Dodge production. The 1936 D2 Dodges were also assembled in Windsor - serial number range 9405681 to 9409408 for 3728 Canadian D2s. The D3s were built in both countries( (1319 in Canada - mainly for export)  while the D4 ( 5645) was a uniquely Canadian thing using a Dodge style front clip on a shorter Plymouth wheelbase.

I realise there has been some erroneous information floating around out there and I hope this clears that up a bit.

 

Best regards

Jim

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Again:  'Thank You very much' to each and everyone who responded !

 

I was especially interested (yet concerned) by 'jpage' 's observations:  Caution about buying new rear wheel cylinders. Dodge used stepped cylinders on the front and rear."  Thank You for these comments.

Two days ago, I ordered from Bernbaum's a complete set of wheel cylinders and Master cylinder for this 36 Dodge.  I pointed out to 'Ed' at Bernbaum's that I'd tried ordering wheel cylinders for a 36 Plymouth from them a few years back - and was told then that these were not available.  Ed said that they were now being re-manufactured (China, I presume ?)  -  and were now available for $100. for each rear wheel cylinder.

I hope these are 'correct parts' for my 36 Dodge (?)  If anyone wants to make further comments, please do.

Yep, I'd have checked with "mobileparts" - except I didn't know about them until their recent post.  By then my Bernbaum order was complete. (Next time ?)  Yet mobile parts" seems to suggest (like Bernbaum's ?) that these parts are now available, though they were not available before when I tried.  Did I get this correct ?

***

I was very much helped by the comments of Jim at : "36 D2 coupe". From the serial number on the pic provided below, it appears that this IS a Canadian car.  (I actually thought the seller was likely mistaken.) You've answered my question !  Now if  I only knew the length of the engine they put in this car back in 1936 !  I could try to match that ? (though not the serial number...)

I was intrigued by 'Pete in PA' saying:   "You say that you think your 36 Dodge was built in Canada.  This should be easy to establish because................  The serial number plate is attached to the front, RH door hinge pillar.  Total Canadian production was very low compared to US market production.  Just 6827 Canadian-built cars vs. the 265,005 built in the US.  Checking the serail number plate on your Dodge will tell you exactly what you have."

How did you both know about this ??   I'd really like to know where to access such information, if you could tell me where it is available. A book ? website ? I've been told by a few people that the Canadian information is very hard come by, but again, just words albeit from well-intentioned folks.  Maybe like me, they don't know where this information is available ?   The old owner of the car seemed sure it was a Canadian car, but I presumed he'd simply been told this by someone or other. (?) I had no clue till these recent posts.

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Serial number on the RHS post ? I provide a pic, but I'm older.  Picture a fellow going out with his BRIGHT LIGHT (that's the big thing) his glasses, magnifying glass, and his camera.  Its legible (as you can see) and (thankfully) matches the ownership... (Why are people so cautious about sharing this online ? I see license plates 'blocked out' all the time, yet haven't a clue how to do this myself.  Is it 'scammers' ?)

The plate on the firewall, is highly legible, in comparison. Weird.  As per above posts, the car's last owner told me he had the engine replaced with an engine he had bought in Ohio, so I presume the engine number simply confirms his comments....

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I see I badly need the two little 'brackets' (one on the cowl and one on the grill surround) that hold this 36 Dodge hood in place.  Need to look at mine more carefully; but they're not holding...

And yes, acknowledging the wonderful expertise of those who have replied - I rather do still need (2) 7 3/8"   1935 Plymouth tail-light housings ?!?!!  If anyone has/finds/knows of any such beasts...

Peter.

 

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1936 Dodge 10 .JPG

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Hi Peter

I just had a look at your serial number plate - 9406839 is about 1158 units from the first serial number listed for Canadian D2 Dodges, Your body number of 13 seems about right since there were not that many RS Roadsters built in the production run.

How do I know this stuff? Well I've had our Dodge since 1966 and have accumulated quite a lot of shop manuals, parts manuals and literature - US as well as Canadian - including serial numbers etc.

Occasionally, shop manuals, parts manuals and owners manuals come up for sale. I'll try to contact Dave Gray and see what he has available here in Canada. The shop manuals are 34-36 Dodge all in one. I have never seen one exclusively for 1936 Dodge in over 50 years and have no idea why :huh:

The engine you have in the car looks to be the right configuration. Can you find the engine number - it is stamped on a flat boss on the left side of the cylinder block just above the generator. That number will tell us whether the original owners were able to source a '36 Dodge engine from Ohio and if not we can tell what it did come from originally.

Regarding the hood hinge retainer brackets, there is a guy who has remanufactured them and has them for sale on eBay. You will likely want to contact him. On this forum he goes by "knobless" - look him up.  

Regarding the brake cylinders - Bernbaum is reliable - I suspect the wheel cylinders you ordered will be ok. I need to do this myself - cheaper than rebuilding the ones on our car. I'll be calling them soon myself.

That's all for now.

Best regards

Jim

 

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If new "original" wheel cylinders are available now, I'm not aware. They may be.  Stepped cylinders used to be available new years ago, but like a lot of parts..no market..no parts! One of the forum members, AKA Knobless, sells new hinge brackets, so if you get hold of him he can fix you up. I think the longer blocks, at the time, were mostly used for truck engines as  I think they had an extra main bearing but still were only 201 or 218 C.I.D.

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Hagens auto parts of Puyallup, Wa will rebuild your wheel cylinders and master cylinder too. Don't trust anything else called new. I even had my clutch and pressure plate rebuilt too. Who’s to say these parts weren’t switched somewhere along the line?

My car runs about 2500 rpms at 60 mph and that’s as fast as I’m gonna go. I too was considering an overdrive but I’m satisfied with status quo. Any speed higher I believe is unsafe, especially since your talking 80 year old technology.

Thats a beautiful car you’ve got! Enjoy!

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Then and Now Auto in Weymouth, MA will re-build your rear wheel cylinders and have all the remaining parts for complete brake re-do.  Part of South Shore Customs in Plymouth, MA rebuild on my 36 D2.  Brakes work great little different to use thaan modern power brakes.  They will even do a panic stop, lock em up.

Beautiful convertible 

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I had White Post sleeve my wheel cylinders. Not only did they sleeve them, they rebuilt them. New cups, pistons, new boots, new springs, everything. Zeke 

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''Thank You' again for your replies !  Including part and rebuild sources, which eventually I'll need...

I notice that Jim (36 D2 Coupe) is from around London Ontario ?  I am located (1/2 hour) north of Barrie, Ontario, but noticed this doesn’t come up when I put in a comment. Do I need to enter this somewhere ?

Jim said: "I've had our Dodge since 1966..."   If I am not being too forward Jim, what Dodge(s) do YOU have ? 36 D2 Coupe for sure ? (I'd like to see it !)  I'm guessing that your 36 D2 coupe was made in Windsor, Canada as well ?  Do your sources provide 1936 production numbers for Canadian made coupes and convertibles ? (See below.)

Again, you provide very helpful information.

To answer your question about the 36 Dodge engine serial number, it looks to me to be:

(1)12  II2493(0)

I'll explain. Not too sure about the first and last numbers - hence the brackets.   II - looks like two capital i's   but what I put in (above) is the closest this computer will do. My engine pic is so blurry its useless. 

(I need several hands to get a pic of the engine number;  3 hands to hold the hood without the end brackets being replaced; and two hands on the camera. My pic was blurry, I moved.)

- In my recent order with Bernbaum's I ordered a 34-36 Dodge manual, but until it arrives, I've no idea if its a photocopy; a disc needing a computer to access it (I really hope not, I should have asked); nor how many pages it is - but I need something better than my 1936- 1942 general manual. I much appreciate your reaching someone who might have this information, Jim. Thank You Very Much.

- I' tracked "knobless" on this site (excellent 'handle') - so that too was quite helpful ! Thank You !

***

In my attempted research, I saw this aaca website had a post from Sept. 2014 from "1936 D2" - quoting a book called "Standard Catalogue of Chrysler 1924-1990"-  which gave US (?) production numbers for 36 Dodge convertible coupe as 1,525; and (US?) production numbers for a D2 2-door R/S Coupe as 4,317.   Not having this book myself, I was unsure if these numbers were US production ? Worldwide production ?  North American production ? - or something else. Only two pages from it were posted online, which did not seem to have what the numbers exactly represent.

***

There is a fellow (not far from you Jim)  selling a Cdn made 36 Chrysler Airlflow which he says is #3  of only 8 made in Canada that year.  When I met him about a year ago, I never thought to ask how he knew the exact numbers.  I mention this only to support your comment about small production runs occurring in Canada - apparently not only for Canadian made Dodges.  (His car remains for sale.)

***

Referring to Steve9 and his overdrive comments:  I rather agree !  My idea with the overdrive was to drive 60 -  65 on the highway tops; but to reduce engine RPM when I drive that speed.  In the absence of overdrive, I feel I'm "beating on the car" if I drive it 60.  Driving 50 is OK;  55 I suppose; faster seems a bit 'cruel to the car', at least to me ?

***

I wanted to give a bit more information about this car to Jim at '36 D2 Coupe'.  Enclosed is the firewall plate. I did not include it before because I don't know what information its really giving. However, Jim might better know what this plate is saying - so for his and general perusal - I post it now.

Peter

**

 

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Where to begin, where to begin?

Peter, I am far from an expert on the 36 Dodge.  I've always been a mid-60s to mid-70s Mopar guy who stumbled into a D2 just over 3 years ago.  My car was in a nearby home's garage, stored for almost 40 years in partially disassembled condition, and the homeowner wanted it gone.  When a long-stored 80 year old Mopar in decent condition shows up a baseball's throw from your house you buy it.  At least that was my thinking at the time.  Progress has been slow, limited by time, money, and - most of all - a space to work in.  My story appears in this thread and you may find it interesting.
 


I get my technical info, production data, etc.  from the web and also from the car hobby books, service manuals, owner's manuals, parts manuals, etc. that i have collected over the past 4 decades.  Krause Publications has issued quite a few helpful books and I've accumulated several of them.  I think I started with "The Standard Catalog of American Cars 1946-1975" a long, long time ago.  I added the 1976-19XX version at some point and then other brand-specific editions.  Most recently (September of 2017) I scored the "Standard Catalog of Chrysler 1924-1990" on ebay and used that to provide the Canadian car production info.  From what Jim says that info isn't correct or I misinterpreted it.  Whatever the case I yield to Jim's info on this matter since it looks like he's much more experienced and better informed on the subject.  At some point I'll compare the info he's provided in this thread and compare it to what's in my book and see what's going on.

So as we now know your lovely convertible was built in Canada as evidenced by the serial number plate.  It looks to me like that number plate has been sandblasted, probably during restoration of the car.  Do you know any history of the car?  I will attach a pic of the number plate from my D2 so you can see what I think your plate should look like.

Do try to get a clear pic of the engine serial number since I'm interested to identify that engine.   My Chrysler book says that engine numbers start at D2-1001 and end at D2-266089 but does not say whether this applies to combined US and Canadian production.  Maybe Jim can clarify.  I'll also attache a pic of my car's engine number for reference.

Oh, one more thing: my car does not have a firewall plate like the one on your car.  Perhaps this is a Canadian production feature.  I will attach a pic of the body builder's plate found on my car.  It includes no paint info, no interior trim info.

That's all for now!

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Edited by Pete in PA (see edit history)

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'Thank You' for your welcome post.

You say: My car was in a nearby home's garage, stored for almost 40 years in partially disassembled condition, and the homeowner wanted it gone.  When a long-stored 80 year old Mopar in decent condition shows up a baseball's throw from your house you buy it.

Absolutely.

I smiled a bit when I read your earlier need for 'clarification'.  Sadly, these days its difficult to share information with a complete stranger online.  I suspect both of us are rather 'careful' in this regard - all of us have to be - its part of the 'modern world'.  Odd isn't it how 'progress' - seems to make things more difficult ?

There's lots of 'scamming' going on, even on these 'car sites'.  I /we certainly know this first-hand...

However, why I smiled, was mostly aimed at myself.  I am quite defensive about the number of cars I've bought and continue to own  ('caretake'  is the better word). This is because with the skill level I possess, I probably should not have even one of them.  I call the cars I own: "symbols of my stupidity" - and though this is meant partly in humour; I know that its humorous in large part because its true.

Each of our 'stories' is utterly different - and because of this - each of our stories is interesting !  Who could even guess at the other's 'story' ?  I was glad to hear a bit of, a start, to your story.  It starts down the pathway to knowing one another a bit better, and then, maybe 'sharing' our 'stories' ?

Its true. I was going to send you (a teasing) e-mail in reply; saying that even on "pain of death"  I will never, ever, ever, disclose what I've bought - because were I to do so - you would then take my wife's side !!! Unthinkable!!  Why ever would I begin to tread down THAT road ?? (The wife is actually OK with it; not ecstatic mind you. Quietly tolerant...)

The car you have is a beautiful one. I wanted one of those for many years, for reasons you could never guess.  But here in Canada, they never seemed to come up, and its rare even now, when many of the older gents who loved and valued these cars are forced to part with them.

Very soon I will join their ranks, if I'm not already among them.

Now this site is about vehicles - not personal history – yet these intertwine.

In my case, my Grandad worked at Chrysler, Windsor, Ontario during the late 20's till the 1950's as a general laborer.  He passed away in 1959.  My Grandmother saved his 1951 Dodge - a 'Plodge' really - and I was given this car,  his car in 1976, after it had sat in his garage for a long time. I really wanted to take my grandmother for a ride in his car, once I got it running and driving - but I was too late.  She passed away before I could do this.  Her sun glasses were still in the glovebox !  I still have this car now. ('Plodge' refers to a canadian made Plymouth with Dodge badges and grill; Jim better described it.)

For years, I wanted a "1936 Plodge" because this was the car my parents went courting in.  My Dad, had to borrow HIS Dad's only car, a 1936 Plodge, to go pick up my Mom.  My parents were married in 1947 - long before my grandad 'traded in' his 36, for a new 1951 Plodge; but the 36 Dodge was a meaningful car for my parents.   His 36 Plodge was needed for their wedding;  Later I used Grandad's 51 Plodge at my own.

Eventually, almost 30 years ago, I found a 35 Plodge up here. They very rarely came up for sale back then.  I’d have preferred a 36 – but the 35 was close to the same car - and I knew if I didn’t buy the 35, I’d never see another one in time. The one I found (sadly) was 'rodded' - but - with a Mopar engine, transmission. Not my first choice (rodded), but a happy one !  I got to take my parents for a ride in it before they both passed away.  My Mom even asked for 'a ride together with my Dad in the back in this car', very uncharacteristic for her.  Happy, I obliged.  My Dad wanted to wash the 35 Plodge.  Why ? It brought back memories of him washing his Dad's car, when his Dad was alive. He told me how one had to wash the hood ornament carefully – or it could cut your hands. (Only time I ever saw my Dad cry, was when he learned of his Dad’s death. This image is forever imprinted on my memory, though I was very young.)

Even now, these cars rarely 'come up' in Canada, even as people who loved those cars are forced to sell.  Few people saved 'Plodges'. But back then they just didn't come up. And now is far too late for my earlier purposes anyway.

Yes, the 35 Plodge pictured above is my car, owned now almost 30 years. I do need two taillight stands for this car, even though the ones in the picture look OK. (They are not.)  They came with the car, and I’ve seen them up here on the only other 35 Plodge I’ve seen. If someone has any ideas where I might get any...

That being said, I do know of one other 35 Dodge (not Plodge, and not a 36) up here – its a DU – the fancier American made vehicle and yes, its tail-light stands are different. Similar, yet a different car.

By the bye:   https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?sts=t&cm_sp=SearchF-_-home-_-Results&kn=Chrysler&an=John+Lee&tn=Catalog+of+Chrysler+1924+-+1990&isbn=

Peter

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Update:

I earlier thought the engine number on this 36 Dodge was 112  II2403 .

Now however, I believe that Jim at  36 D2 Coupe  has a much better idea.

Jim believes it likely is:  " D2  112403 ".  I think I'm wrong and he must be correct. 

Now that Jim points it out; I can see it...

Note:  There is a large “D” on the engine head at the back of the engine.

Enclosed is my best  "engine #"  pic.  (The pic now enclosed was taken in sunshine, rather than indoors with a light.)

**

Jim thought the two initial 11 - are likely both sides of a D. 

He then thought that what I thought were two capital ii's - are really ones.  He believes that is how they made 'one' s back then.

That would give an engine number that makes sense, whereas my earlier post gives an engine number that does not make sense.

What do others think ?

Thank You

Peter

***

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