May need to call it quits on our 32 Project

[CTCV]

Not sure just yet but might need to call it quits, we ran over on time. Those that put in the most work graduated last year and current interest is limited.

Here is how it sits now. It came a long way but still a ways to go. 

Not sure how to put a value on it other than adding up receipts. 

Tony

[CTCV]

NC and Mr Earl, I know just how you feel. 

[60FlatTop]

 

I figured it was a school project. This will help explain.

 

 

Here is an update and a bit about us. My students wanted to build a rat rod. A local gentleman had this and basically gave it to me . Once I found out what it was I was not going to cut it into a rat rod. Obviously it could never go back to what it was originally so the plan was to put it back to the tow truck. 

I decided that any parts that can be used to help others restore their Buick to original will be offered up to help us complete our project. But we are determined to keep the original drivetrain. We do not have a budget to buy everything so we are making the best of what we have and putting money where it can do the most. Many may feel we are not restoring this vehicle properly but considering we need to finish this project by June leaves us few options. We will post a few pictures as we move forward. We plan to fire up the engine in a month or so.

Here is an update and a bit about us. My students wanted to build a rat rod. A local gentleman had this and basically gave it to me . Once I found out what it was I was not going to cut it into a rat rod. Obviously it could never go back to what it was originally so the plan was to put it back to the tow truck. 

I decided that any parts that can be used to help others restore their Buick to original will be offered up to help us complete our project. But we are determined to keep the original drivetrain. We do not have a budget to buy everything so we are making the best of what we have and putting money where it can do the most. Many may feel we are not restoring this vehicle properly but considering we need to finish this project by June leaves us few options. We will post a few pictures as we move forward. We plan to fire up the engine in a month or so.

 

[CTCV]

Yes, it is a school project but just to be clear there are no school funds used. Over the years I try to fund projects as students show genuine interest. 

I rebuilt the engine in my spare time at a local machine shop and thought that once students heard it run it may inspire them to continue. Well its running but only a few wish to continue. We will try and hang on but once it is no longer a tool for instruction and training it is time for it to go. 

Those who worked on it did a great job for their limited experience. The remaining work is beyond their skill set at this time.

But thanks for posting what we were trying to accomplish. 

T

[BUICK RACER]

Unfortunately this is a problem, we had a similar deal going here with the college and the Back to the Bricks committee, and had to bail out too. but there are others that are doing a great job with students, what's the difference. location or leadership has to be one or the other, tell us more!

[MrEarl]

Tony, what an interesting project. Curious as to whether there were any of the tow truck crane parts were still with it when found. Also what color was it originally 

[CTCV]

Buick Racer

The first problem is I insist on staying within my budget or less. There will never be a budget that can support a project like this because even if the school funded it there is no way to get the money back out for the next project. No one wants the liability. Second, no one will keep throwing money at a project when students can accidentally blow up their 10K dollar motor and just hand you another 10K. Finally, I am probably the only person willing to make the gamble that if things don't go right I loose the money invested. 

Hey ,students had success and great practice they can use use in their future. Regardless the money lost its a win.

[CTCV]

7 minutes ago, MrEarl said:

Tony, what an interesting project. Curious as to whether there were any of the tow truck crane parts were still with it when found. Also what color was it originally 

Mr.Earl, 

There were no crane parts. The car was originally a model 97 which would have been two tone blues I believe.  The colors we painted it are what we believe we're the tow truck colors with the exception of the wheels.

Tony

[MrEarl]

8 hours ago, CTCV said:

There were no crane parts

Darn, I was starting to dream of it sittin in front of my Buick Sales and Service 😁

 

what were your plans for the rear deck? 

[MrEarl]

I just spent a jaw dropping hour reading and viewing the photos on the  Wilkes-Bare Technical Center site   as well all your associated posts here on the forum. You and the students have done some amazing work so far. In my view, you're on the home stretch, I'd be interested in hearing more about your comment

13 hours ago, CTCV said:

The remaining work is beyond their skill set at this time

 

 

 

13 hours ago, CTCV said:

We will try and hang on but once it is no longer a tool for instruction and training it is time for it to go. 

Those who worked on it did a great job for their limited experience.

 

I truly hope that the students who are still dedicated and interested will get motivated and win over others who will want to see this project through. Or perhaps one of the previous students can purchase it and carry it through to completion. Please keep us posted on its status.       

[MrEarl]

Wondering how something like this old shop crane could maybe be retrofitted to the rear deck. I see them sometimes on Craigslist, tha’s where I found this one. 
just a thought 

 

 

Don’t mind the hound dog here he’s always photobombing 😆

 

 

[CTCV]

1 hour ago, MrEarl said:

Darn, I was starting to dream of it sittin in front of my Buick Sales and Service 😁

 

what were your plans for the rear deck? 

I was leaving the rear deck til the end because although a crane would be nice the cost and availability is an unknown. 

Our option was a stained tongue and groove hardwood stained to match the running boards.

[CTCV]

2 minutes ago, MrEarl said:

Wondering how something like this old shop crane could maybe be retrofitted to the rear deck. I see them sometimes on Craigslist, tha’s where I found this one. 
just a thought 

 

 

Don’t mind the hound dog here he’s always photobombing 😆

 

 

I'm sure I can install a steel deck that can handle that. That one would certainly look good on it.

[jeff_a]

CTCV and Mr. Earl,

   Excellent shop project you have gotten through to the point you can see the finished Buick. Love the color and side-mounts.  You and your students have taken it from Junkyard Refugee to Clunker to Damn That's Looking Good despite an LTN budget(Little To None). What kind of paint did you use, urethane basecoat/clearcoat? Looks pro.

   You could make it into a shop truck w/o a crane, or a wrecker with one. I've seen pictures of retrofitted shop  or service vehicles that had that kind of rear body work(side panels w/ rails) which went to service breakdowns on the road, haul parts, etc. There's even a picture here on the forums somewhere of a 20s Duesenberg fitted that way...they were usually kept in slick promotional condition, with dealer logos on the side.

 

1924 picture of Model "A" Duesenberg service car from Hemmings Classic Car DEC, 2013 article "Full Classics Earning Their Keep" by Jim Donnelly.

I think it says "DUESENBERG CALIFORNIA CO., Distributors" and "For Service Call Sunset 2136".

 

   About once a year I see hand-crank wrecker assemblies F/S online. Manley, and Weaver Auto Crane were 2 brands. A general internet search might turn up one. In 20 minutes looking on fordbarn.com, I found several entire wrecker vehicles, some parts, and a couple of crane outfits for sale. Here's one from back in 8/9/14:

.........Weaver Auto Crane, $2,500, South Bend, IN, cannot ship 

.........1920-30's vintage, 3-ton, original & complete incl. chains, crank, handle, etc.     

......... user: "Colonel" #(219) Three Three One -1465 

 

          old post ---but no comments on it re: sold or not ---- bet these weigh a ton!

       

Edited November 9, 2019 by jeff_a (see edit history)

[MRJBUICK]

Man what a cool project for the youth to learn on

i wish they had something cool like that when i was in auto shop

i hope you can see the project all the way through it would be a nice thing for all involved to be proud of

question: did that come out of Englers in New Angola PA i never saw it there but he had things tucked here and there?

good luck keeping it going, there are just to many ideas running through my head looking at that, and not enough space or pocket change lol

[CTCV]

Jeff a and Mr. BUICK

Great info and appreciate the comments. It did have rails and I have them to put back on. 

To my knowledge and due to the assistance of another member I believe the vehicle came from Hazelton at a garage called Johnnie's on the corner of First and Arthur. Inspection station #691

I have to make the doors because the original modification does not allow the belt line to match up. But they will be painted as the image.

Tony

[CTCV]

Sorry Jeff -a 

I forgot to mention I have been a fan of single stage urethane.  My favorite was always Chroma One. I don't think it's available anymore unless someone has it on the shelf. I bought up the remaining black from a local store years ago. 

Tony

[jeff_a]

Tony,

Like Mr. Earl, I was fascinated reading about the project you started & hope the stars are right for it to continue to completion. I suspect an observant straight-eight Buick person would see the value added to the abandoned hulk someone found in the woods...and be interested in buying it and doing it up proper. Is it possible that another group could take the ball and do the finish work? Like the restoration programs at Gilmore*, McPherson*, or Wetaskiwin*? There's also those boys at the International Towing Museum in Chattanooga. Photo below of one of their tow rigs.

 

I worked at a body shop for awhile and helped prep and unprep a few cars for the paint shop and know it takes lots of work. I can see the faint traces of that straw body color hanging on where the door logo is. If MrEarl got ahold of one of these, he'd be rescuing every old car east of the Appalachians. The one in my picture even looks like a Buick, but it's hard to tell. If you sold it, I'd think the motor & paint improvements alone would be worth at least 10 or 12 grand. 

 

 

Jeff

 

*I'm sure these places have policies of not taking in orphans and strays -- but this isn't your usual rust-bucket full of bullet holes -- plus your facility makes you a colleague.

Edited November 12, 2019 by jeff_a (see edit history)

[Buickborn]

         Tony -- as a retired high school teacher (not shop, alas), I'm wondering what, specifically, you're encountering in the form of lack of interest on the part of students in your extremely impressive Buick project.  Are there fewer students enrolling in your shop classes?  Have they become more difficult to motivate?  Are they expected to put in any of their own time (always an issue with students these days)?  Or do they just want to work on more modern vehicles?

          The reason I ask is that nearly all of the students I've known are crazy about old cars (they're familiar with the several I own) and endlessly curious about the whys and wherefores of same.  A few years ago, I received a wildly enthusiastic response from students when I offered my unrestored '35 Buick coupe as an auto-shop project -- an offer which was ultimately rejected by the shop teacher on the basis that the car was too obsolete for his curriculum.

          Not long ago, in an entirely different context, I was informed by a Pennsylvanian that old cars are so numerous thereabouts (Hershey, etc.) that they don't generate the excitement and sense of novelty that they do elsewhere in the country.  Could there be any validity to this claim?

           In any case, I often chuckle in recalling the response of a 16-year-old male upon first setting his eye on my 1941 Cadillac:  "What is THAT?  That's the sexiest car I've ever SEEN!"

          And I can't seem to keep kids from crawling all over my '30 Buick roadster.

         They're still out there.

 

          Profuse applause, by the way, for your obvious dedication.

 

              ~ Charlie Manes

[dibarlaw]

Charlie:

 As a retired High School Shop teacher (Industrial Arts) I echo your observations. But as we both know that administration is the one that does tend to put the brakes on many teacher and student project plans. If it does not strictly fall into the objectives of the curriculum (and cost). It can't be done. Everything in my Tech Ed classes had to be of the best in cutting edge technology..... Oh.. read that as affordable …..I had been accused of holding on to the old techniques since that was where the interest of my students seemed to be most stimulated. Guilty as charged.

Below. My favorite Buick service truck. Howard Company from California.

 

[MRJBUICK]

To the above teachers (and everyone else) an example of you never stop teaching

i knew next to nothing about these kind of autos/conversions and just in this thread i have learned quite a bit

so much so that now there is another old car to add to the list of possibilities lol

being in the auto industry/dealer these cars interest me and i could so see cruising in one of these Bad Boys!

thanks for the posts

[CTCV]

Well I hope to answer everyone's questions and hope to not leave anything unanswered. 

My administration does not tie my hands. We do not have unlimited resources so I use school budget funds to meet curriculum requirements and my personal funds for supporting any holes in that process. I have about 20 students in each session, am / pm. My guess is 50% never touched a tool in their life. Another 30% used common hand tools but most likely that tool box had two screw drivers and a pair of vise grips with the back of the jaws smashed from using it as a hammer. Not their fault and I'll leave it at that. 

Most have never had any desire to understand the workings of a mechanical device and although they may now be interested if it is more complicated than a clothes pin they cannot understand it. Not trying to be mean here but when given the brake light switch from the Buick (with the cover off) they could not figure out what it did and how it worked. When I was 8 I made a gondola that spanned my bedroom and would open or close my door from buttons on my bed. We created our own circuit cards like a credit card that when put in a slot would unlock the door. I had 10 years of electrical and mechanical experience before I entered high school. With students now I have to start at fire and the wheel.

There are many classic and antique cars in PA. Hershey is a big meeting place but they come from all over. The lack of new interest I believe is from a lack of understanding. They buy old Hondas because there are so many in salvage yards that they can get parts cheap and watch a YouTube video on how to switch a part. They have no understanding but they can keep replaying the video and follow steps.  When it doesn't repair the car they sell it and buy another junk for 500 bucks.

Fortunately I do have a few students interested and they are in no way obligated to work on a car I own. It is their choice and some prefer to practice on something they can show off rather than a panel or door that will be discarded as scrap. 

Charlie , don't take it personal that an instructor does not take you up on your generous offer. People see the end product of our projects but don't realize that when a student wants to try and install the winshield we don't say no. Even when we know they are going to break it. When it breaks we say , good try. Three windshields later....Success! We don't want to have to tell you we need money for another windshield. 

Enough for now, hope I addressed everyone's interest. Please know we appreciate all the encouragement. 

Tony

 

[Buickborn]

       Tony -- I find your comments extremely interesting because they touch on issues far beyond mechanics, especially in the matter of understanding and the seeking thereof.

        In that connection, your reference to YouTube mechanics reminds me of an experience I had a while back with my Chevy HHR, which had developed a hard shift in the automatic transmission.  Like any modern citizen, I went to YouTube for counsel, where the general consensus indicated that the problem was likely in the engine's VVT (variable valve timing) solenoids.

         Now, like any self-respecting throwback to the Stone Age, I asked next, "What does valve timing have to do with AT operation?"

         Not only could I not find an answer to this question, in spite of considerable persistence, but -- worse -- I couldn't, then or now, find anyone involved in this topic who exhibited the slightest curiosity about the matter. ("Something to do with the computer" etc., etc.) In any case, I did just as advised:  simply sucked it up and replaced the VVT solenoids, thereby immediately rendering the transmission as smooth as a Dynaflow.

         Problem solved. But it bugs the bejeezus out of me that I don't understand why what I did worked.  And it bothers me even more to consider the legions of folks out there (especially younger people) who are completely indifferent to the matter of properly understanding what they're doing or thinking.

         This kind of thing seems to me to be an epidemic in our current society, and havens from this scourge are every day fewer and further between.  But I strongly feel that one of those havens exists in the old-car hobby, for which understanding is necessarily our lifeblood.

          How to instill the quest for understanding in kids?  Well, that's quite a project, to which I have devoted a career and so, clearly, have you.  Maybe we've gotten to a few.

 

[MrEarl]

On 11/6/2019 at 8:11 AM, CTCV said:

I'm sure I can install a steel deck that can handle that. That one would certainly look good on it.

 

 

[CTCV]

Hello once again. 

Sorry to say but I think it is time. If any Prewar Buick folks are interested in this project Buick let me know.

I cannot give a price at this time because I have not figured what I have invested.

I figure any serious buyer would want to come see it first anyway, which would require an appointment. 

Thanks

Tony

[Steves Buick]

HI Tony,

 

It is with sadness that I see the status of the project as I've been following it from conception. Have you thought of a "go fund me Page"? Would the school and its students be interested in a fund raising campaign? I'm sure that you have considered options, I just hate to see you get rid of it. I would be interested in the engine if you thought of splitting it out of the car, but again I hate to see you do that also. You have my number, call to discuss options.

Best regards,

Steve 

[Bussa]

I think this car / truck is really cool. Very curious about the price.  Thanks, Rob.

[papafarms]

Tony, would like to see some pics of the back and rear bed if they are there, also a price, my email is papafarms1@aol.com, thanks bob

[mikewest]

Can you send me some pictures of what it looks like now? I am interested. Mike west 

[CTCV]

Sorry for the delay getting back.

I tried to send a few messages individually just to find out there is a limit.

For those that wanted to see the back. See pic.

There is no bed in it at this time. Trying to decide if I should build it to tow truck use standards or just for show or just put a wood floor in the bed.

[CTCV]

Well I am back.

Hope you are all well and if not for covid I had hoped one day to meet you all.

We got a bit more done with the only disappointment being that the original students that began the project have since graduated and did not get to see completion....whenever that will be if ever. The "originals" really had to fight against the possibility their work would be pointless since they did see the engine when removed and never believed it would ever run again. Back then I wasn't sure myself. But as mentioned in earlier posts younger generations don't seem to have the same mechanical understanding as us ole folks.

I did run into a few out in the community and showed them video of me driving the it and they actually lit up as if they can now say it was not a waste of their efforts.

Still not done but it is now titled, registered , insured and legal. I will drive it locally to check for issues but if all goes well i am hoping to get it to a show in Allentown and Hershey this year.

If anyone has some common concerns to keep in mind with making those long drives let me know.

Thanks

Tony

[Swear57]

Nice job, way to stay with. A lot of work went into this project. Hope to see it completed

[B Jake Moran]

Somewhere along the line you found a crane job for the back.  

[MrEarl]

Boy that sure would look cool parked in front of the Buick Sales and Service garage! 

[avgwarhawk]

That looks like a lot of fun!  Nice work! 

[CTCV]

9 hours ago, B Jake Moran said:

Somewhere along the line you found a crane job for the back.  

Ya know what Jake ? Sometimes I really get lucky. Maybe I have good karma. Two roads over from my house on a road rarely traveled I found it laying in the weeds. Still has the Manley Crane tag on it. Yada ,yada, ...i inquired and found the gentleman that owned it was also in education at a point in his life and with my great appreciation and a small token to his friend to help load it , it was mine. Small town in America ! Can't beat it.

[CTCV]

6 hours ago, MrEarl said:

Boy that sure would look cool parked in front of the Buick Sales and Service garage! 

It sure would Mr Earl.

Rebuilding my generator now and in a week or so I plan to drive it to the original "Johnnies Garage" and take some photos.

Tony

[CTCV]

Mr. Earl

Where is that BUICK Station you have pictured in your posts?

Tony

[Brad Conley]

2 hours ago, CTCV said:

Mr. Earl

Where is that BUICK Station you have pictured in your posts?

Tony

At his residence!  Isn't that cool?!

[MrEarl]

4 hours ago, CTCV said:

Mr. Earl

Where is that BUICK Station you have pictured in your posts?

Tony

Behind my house 😊

Drive it on down and let’s do a photo shoot. 

 

Edited July 9, 2022 by MrEarl (see edit history)