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Mistery Hearse Body

Hearsecrazy

By Hearsecrazy
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Hearsecrazy

Hearsecrazy

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I have a beautiful carved hearse body that was removed and stored in the 30s. I'm told they repurposed the chassis. It is right hand drive and I am including a photo of the firewall. It looks to be a 4 cylinder? Any information would be greatly appreciated. One gentleman suggested Stutz, another suggested early Cadillac. Thanks!

IMG_1143.JPG

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Rusty_OToole 25,000+ Points

Rusty_OToole

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Where are you? Where is the body? Can you show photos, the more the better?

 

"It is right hand drive" that would be normal in England and Australia. In the US, not so much. There were a few US cars that clung to right hand drive as late as the early twenties, this could be an important clue if you were not in a right hand drive country, which of course we have no way of knowing.

 

When they sold a chassis it usually came with radiator, hood, cowl, and fenders. The shape of the cowl could be an important clue to the chassis make.

 

Car sales were more regional then. Strongest in a certain radius of the factory. Example, Pierce Arrow (Buffalo) Mercer (Trenton NJ) most popular in the northeast. Peerless (Cleveland) Stutz (Indianapolis) in the midwest.

 

Certain coach builders had a relationship with certain car manufacturers, and most of their bodies were on one or two makes of chassis. If you could identify the coachbuilder it might be a clue to the chassis make. There should be a builder's plate on the body, perhaps on the floor in the front, on the sills, or under the hood.

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Rusty_OToole 25,000+ Points

Rusty_OToole

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Hearse makers sometimes used stretched passenger car chassis. They would cut the chassis with a hacksaw, pull the ends apart, and bridge the gap with pieces of channel iron, overlapped and bolted together. I have seen this on a 1926 Buick hearse chassis. Dodge would be easier than Buick because the open drive shaft is easier to lengthen.

 

Dodges were tough cars and could handle the extra weight. The Graham brothers got their start in the automobile business, by building light trucks on Dodge car chassis. After a few years they sold out to Dodge, and bought the Paige car company. I don't know if they made long chassis for hearses but it is a possibility.

 

I don't know how you could make a positive ID. If the original chassis is long gone and the company records have been destroyed. The only chance might be if you find a car whose hood is an exact fit to the cowl.

 

 I don't know what your intentions are. But, if you wanted to put the body on a chassis and put it back in running condition there are a lot of twenties cars with rotten bodies but restorable chassis. They turn up from time to time.

 

Later... After reading the coachbuilt write up on Cynthiana and looking at your pictures it seems most likely to be an early twenties body for a Dodge chassis.

 

Have you posted these photos on the professional car forum? It's the first link at the bottom of the Cynthiana write up at the Coachbuilt site.

Edited by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)
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mike6024 10,000+ Points

mike6024

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http://www.coachbuilt.com/bui/c/cynthiana/cynthiana.htm

 

Cynthiana Carriage Company moved from Cynthiana to nearby Covington, Kentucky in 1924. Their catalog featured a number of carved-panel funeral coaches mounted on Dodge chassis that included small oval windows behind the driver. Cynthiana customers had a choice of two different carved coach designs. The first was a pillar-less design that featured half-height subtly carved-panels while the other coach had the traditional 8-columns with traditionally carved drapes that included a small center window. 
For 1926 Cynthiana marketed a boxy limousine-style coach mounted on a Dodge chassis which featured two-tone paint, window shades and styling first seen in the late Teens. Bodies could be supplied on Cythiana's assembled 60hp Continental-equipped chassis, Studebaker's  purpose-built professional car chassis or on any chassis albeit new or used supplied by the customer.  

Like many other small builders, the Cynthiana  coaches that appeared in 1927 and 1928 mailings were beginning to look old in the tooth and lacked the modern long & low look typified by the glamorous late-Twenties Kissel professional coaches.

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MCHinson 25,000+ Points

MCHinson

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Just to point out that the shape of the cowl might not be a totally accurate way to tell what chassis was used on an early hearse, I am attaching a photo of a hearse that is on a Model T Ford chassis. The coach builder apparently decided that it also needed a different radiator shell to make it look a bit different from more common production line Model T Fords. I am not sure of the exact year of this hearse, and I have no idea of who the coach builder was but the car is located in Southeastern NC. It has been in the same small town since it was a new hearse. 

 

I would suggest that the dimensions of the body compared to dimensions of different period chassis might be a better way to determine what chassis would work to restore the body, and thus probably what the original chassis was.

DSC_0022.JPG

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Rusty_OToole 25,000+ Points

Rusty_OToole

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On further thought and looking at the pictures I think the body is more likely late teens than twenties. The cowl resembles those used with the straight sided hoods of the teens, not the more streamlined look of the twenties.

 

What makes you think it was right hand drive? Was this a common feature of hearses back then?

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ron hausmann 5,000+ Points

ron hausmann

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All,

Kissel custom-built alot of hearses in the teens and twenties themselves. I don't know if they outsourced as well, but that certainly could have occurred. I have seen Kissel-built hearses. That being said, this is not, in my opinion, a Kissel Hearse from the late teens or twenties. The fittings, shapes, fenders, cowl, are all different and the cowl wall bears no similarity to contemporary Kissels. It doesn't "feel" like a 1917 - 1929 Kissel to me.

It could be an early Kissel up to 1916-ish, but I'm not familiar with those. I do think it's to old looking to be a 20's car.

Thanks, Ron Hausmann

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Durant Mike 5,000+ Points

Durant Mike

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Although many people don't like to talk about these, and don't like them in their shows, I'm glad they have the Professional Car Society to cover these, Ambulances and flower cars.  The wood craftsmanship in these earlier ones was fantastic and very time consuming. Anyone that has done any kind of furniture building, or antique refinishing etc knows the time and effort that goes into producing all those intricate cuts and shapes.  Fine looking hand made body.

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Layden B 10,000+ Points

Layden B

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As with identifying any unknown body the fit to the frame is a large clue, unfortunately if does not show in juat about all pictures of bodies. Does this fit a flat frame or would the frame have a drop, or double drop? Can you identify mounting bolt holes to the frame? What would be their locations back from the firewall and how far apart ( across the frame).

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1912Staver 25,000+ Points

1912Staver

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My guess is that a body this elaborate would have been built for a more expensive chassis than a Dodge {or a Ford for that matter}.   As Layden suggests some photos of the underside and measurements of mounting holes would definitely help.

 

Greg in Canada

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mike6024 10,000+ Points

mike6024

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Harrison County Historical Society has a little information on Cynthiana carriages.

 

http://harrisoncountyky.us/historical-society/

http://www.harrisoncountyky.us/harrison-heritage-news/hhn-04-08-(aug.)-(4-pgs.)-(dl-scan).pdf

 

"CYNTHIANA CARRIAGE CO. In a review of the various interests of Cynthiana, and factors that have contributed so
much toward the material development of the city and state mention must necessarily be made of a concern whose brilliant
record in the industrial field of Cynthiana for the past twelve years has placed them among the prominent and leading
enterprises of this section. We refer to the Cynthiana Carriage Co., builder of high grade road wagons and funeral cars and
dealer in remodeled hearses, coaches and casket wagons This concern has the reputation of building the strongest and
easiest riding buggies and road wagons on the market, and their funeral cars cannot be surpassed anywhere for quality and
price.
They do all kinds of repair work, retiring, trimming, painting, etc. They also make a specialty of remodeling casket
wagons and funeral cars and are the only firm in Kentucky to do this kind of work, Their plant is modem in equipment and
consists of three buildings containing over eight thousand three hundred square feet of floor space.The Log Cabin, August 17, 1906 - For Sale -

 

We have about ten good second hand buggies, surreys and phaetons on hand, Columbus, Troy and other good makes repaired and painted, Cynthiana Carriage Co. The Log Cabin, September 14, 1906. - The Cynthiana Carriage Co. has sold to John T. Rorer, of Sunrise, a handsome hearse. The Company is doing a large business at this time. Cynthiana Democrat, October 12, 1916. - The Cynthiana Carriage Co., famed for its handsome work, has recently delivered a beautiful auto ambulance and funeral car combination to a Frankfort firm, Cynthiana Democrat, June 8, 1922. - Itis announced that the Cynthiana Carriage Co. will move their plant to Covington in the next few weeks. Scarcity of labor necessary to keep the plant in operation is given as the reason

Edited by mike6024 (see edit history)
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Rusty_OToole 25,000+ Points

Rusty_OToole

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There were hearses built on Dodge and Ford chassis. The size of the body would dictate the size of the chassis. Keep in mind that hearses were used for short, slow trips and did not need to be very powerful or fast.

 

The cowl on the body shown here was obviously made by the coachbuilder not the chassis supplier. It does not look as if it would fit a Dodge or Ford hood. Perhaps it was made for some other make of chassis or maybe they made the hood too. My guess is, if you find a hood to fit the firewall there is your chassis. The shape seems familiar, like an old camel trunk. Rounded top and straight sides.

 

Wish we had a few contemporary photos of the same make of hearse. Might give us a few clues as to how they were made.

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1912Staver 25,000+ Points

1912Staver

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Rad and hood are wrong for American Underslung.  But very intriguing.  Underslung chassis construction is rare , but not quite limited to Regal and American.  This one is a mystery to me . There was a thread last year about a speedster using the chassis from an electric underslung car as a base , a nice Wisconsin T head was the proposed power . I will see if I can find it.

 

Greg in Canada

Edited by 1912Staver (see edit history)
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