How did they ever do this in production?

[John348]

The other day a few of my buddies were in my garage and were admiring the set of NOS hubcaps I just picked up and this question came up. How did they apply paint on the chrome, stainless and aluminum trim in production and the detail that was maintained? Plus the paint they used did not lift after all of these years. Just using Chevrolet for example they produced almost 1 million vehicles a year, that is 4 million wheel covers and hubcaps. What ever they did it had to be fast, it is pretty hard to imagine a stencil because placement and "paint loading" would be time consuming and somewhat labor intensive. Also the material that was used seems to pass the test of time. Anybody know?

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

Good question, John!    Might be a good one for the TV show  of similar name. Off the top of my head, can't think of the actual show name or channel.

 

  Ben

[Guest Skyking]

Ben,  your thinking of "How it's Made".

It has always fascinated me how the auto manufacturers made things so perfect back then with little or no technology.

I'm doing my Chevelle over because the quality of the paint and some of the bodywork is not up to my standards and recently ordered new repro aluminum headlight eyebrows because mine have the usual fine Pitts from following cars.  The new ones are junk,  probably made in Taiwan somewhere and don't even fit to the original matting trim.  The original pieces are thicker also.  I'll end up refinishing the originals or gladly pay the price for NOS anything.  

[Restorer32]

Silk screen.

[auburnseeker]

Think of all the steps in painting the centers on 40's Cadillac hubcaps. 

It was also done by subcontractors, so Chevy per say,  assembled the cars,  that their suppliers created the parts for.  Same as today, though some of the stuff is made in house of course.  BLC  made alot of parts as did Autolite and Delco Remy, Guide, etc.  Before they became part of the big three.  

[Pilgrim65]

Interesting , but also brought my attention to a recent problem I have on my 53 Buick hubcaps , they have Buick emblem which is ok, but the surrounding black is peeling off , so I'm going to repaint the Matt black ,but wondered what paint was best on the chrome or stainless surfaces . Thinking enamel but any advice received with thanks 

cheers.  

Pilgrim

[John348]

I know of a member who has a demo kit showing the stamping process for both the Chevrolet and Oldsmobile full size wheel covers, it has a sample showing each step of the stamping process. There is about 15-17 different steps, He said he got from a guy who worked for a company that pressed them out. Looks like they passed it off to another vendor for paint and polish. Next time I meet up with him I will try to get some photos.

[Guest Skyking]

Looking at the hubcap again one has to wonder about the press they used to deboss the flags,  form the six ribs,  form the outer edge to wrap around to the inside and not put a scratch on the stainless itself and to do millions.....  Quite a process!

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

3 minutes ago, Skyking said:

Looking at the hubcap again one has to wonder about the press they used to deboss the flags,  form the six ribs,  form the outer edge to wrap around to the inside and not put a scratch on the stainless itself and to do millions.....  Quite a process!

 

 Yeah, like, who made the press. Farther back, who designed it.  This engineering and production stuff amazes me.

 

  Ben

[John348]

2 minutes ago, Pilgrim65 said:

Interesting , but also brought my attention to a recent problem I have on my 53 Buick hubcaps , they have Buick emblem which is ok, but the surrounding black is peeling off , so I'm going to repaint the Matt black ,but wondered what paint was best on the chrome or stainless surfaces . Thinking enamel but any advice received with thanks 

cheers.  

Pilgrim

 

I had just done some of this and I used a SEM product for stainless and aluminum, I used a 3M fine line masking tape for the edges, it was very time consuming. I also found the hard way to wait as long as possible to remove the tape. The edges were soft and the paint would pull of with the tape, So far so good. Don't forget to wipe down with prep-sol.

[Pilgrim65]

John , 

many thanks for advice ,will take note when I start in spring just tucked ruby up for winter.

 love the car buy the way 

cheers

pilgrim

[joe_padavano]

42 minutes ago, Skyking said:

Looking at the hubcap again one has to wonder about the press they used to deboss the flags,  form the six ribs,  form the outer edge to wrap around to the inside and not put a scratch on the stainless itself and to do millions.....  Quite a process!

 

Sadly, it appears that the US has lost the ability to fabricate parts like this anymore.  I remember when GM came out with the Chevy SSR as a tribute to the Advance Design 1950s pickups.  Despite being the company that was able to economically stamp the complex fenders on those AD trucks in the 1950s, GM had to go offshore for the SSR fenders because they were incapable of stamping them in the US.  That was depressing.

[John348]

14 minutes ago, Pilgrim65 said:

John , 

many thanks for advice ,will take note when I start in spring just tucked ruby up for winter.

 love the car buy the way 

cheers

pilgrim

 

Thanks, I had owned this car for 30 years, and was on the road and pretty nice all original paint car until I damaged it pulling it on the trailer, not able to match the paint I decided to repaint the entire car and one thing lead to the next so..... now about 20K later and more to go. My goal is to have it ready for the Southeast Meet in Ocala this February. It got a Junior in 2003 but the condition of the originality of the car would never allow it to get a senior. This is coming out better then my 62 Biscayne so I am taking my time now.

As far as your trim you will need the metal to get good and warm as well as the paint, be prepared for frustration! I found it worked best with very light coats.

 

After trying to replicate this finish it raised the question "How did they do this?" and also transport all of these parts without damage,

[Pilgrim65]

John

damage is always annoying and  very disappointing , but doubly so when you do it yourself , been there.

Look forward to seeing the photos in February 

cheers

pilgrim

[1912Staver]

Not to be political, but mass production of complicated products is a large part of what made America , and Canada and all of the industrialised world great.  From the design dept. to draftsman , tool and die men , metalurgists , and assembly line people. Millions of skilled people producing durable consumer goods, that were made in large enough numbers that the unit price was affordable to nearly everyone.

  Unfortunately such widespread industrialization was gradually evolved over 100 years or so, with many serious effects on worker health and safety and generally without regard for the environment. Various parties dropped the ball as far as the long term health of western economies was concerned when it was discovered that it would be more profitable to export industry to third world countries where worker and environmental concerns were unknown. And then simply ship the finished products to retailers.  Unfortunately for the western economies this radical change in how large numbers of its population makes its living has had many detrimental  effects.

 

Greg in Canada

Edited November 25, 2016 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[poci1957]

11 hours ago, John348 said:

How did they apply paint on the chrome, stainless and aluminum trim in production and the detail that was maintained? Plus the paint they used did not lift after all of these years.  What ever they did it had to be fast, it is pretty hard to imagine a stencil because placement and "paint loading" would be time consuming and somewhat labor intensive. Also the material that was used seems to pass the test of time.

 

Very good question John, I would like to know too.  As you point out there were lots of parts like this and restorers today try bead blasting, etching primers and other ways to get "tooth" for paint on a stainless or aluminum surface, with mixed results.  Restorer32 is correct that silkscreening was widely used but how did they get the "tooth" on the recesses of the bright metal fast enough for production and with sufficient durability?

[misterc9]

Chevy small wheel covers in the late fifties and early sixties were usually stamped out of brass. That's why they dent so easily. That's also why they could have such intricate stampings, soft easy to mold material. If  you see a badly weathered one of these caps they sometimes turn green and they're not magnetic.

Edited November 29, 2016 by misterc9 (see edit history)

[John348]

6 minutes ago, misterc9 said:

Chevy small wheel covers in the late fifties and early sixties were usually stamped out of brass. That's why they dent so easily. That's also why they could have such intricate stampings, soft easy to mold material. If  you see a badly weathered one of these caps they sometimes turn green and they're not at magnetic.

 

True the small caps were brass, but this same process was used on stainless, chrome, and aluminum parts as well. The parts below are aluminum. There was no evidence of etching or primer under the paint on those parts as well....... 

[John348]

Here is a stainless piece, we are talking millions of pieces across the entire GM line

 

 

[Curti]

This is a interesting thread. As I write this we are having 100, 34-36 Auburn hubcaps made . They will come to us unplated. 

We need to paint the two rings and the bar across the center. It is very tedious to do by hand.  Any suggestions?

[keiser31]

12 minutes ago, Curti said:

This is a interesting thread. As I write this we are having 100, 34-36 Auburn hubcaps made . They will come to us unplated. 

We need to paint the two rings and the bar across the center. It is very tedious to do by hand.  Any suggestions?

Thin out some exterior sign paint to let it flow into the recesses, then wipe the excess off. I would recommend Sure Shot sign paint.

Edited November 25, 2016 by keiser31 (see edit history)

[John348]

Would the Sure Shot sign paint stick to those types of metal with no primer?

Edited November 25, 2016 by John348 (see edit history)

[1912Staver]

Possibly a laser cut self adhesive stencil. Then paint with something like one shot.  100 caps is definitely enough to justify a little further investment for the stencil.

 

Greg in Canada

[Restorer32]

In the past when necessary we have had self adhesive stencils made to use as masking.

[Curti]

A stencil came to mind, but it needs to be a dome shape.

[Spinneyhill]

A jig with a (pin-striping) air brush?

[John348]

5 hours ago, Spinneyhill said:

A jig with a (pin-striping) air brush?

 

So you think every piece was done by hand? I million cars is four million hub caps........ a lot of labor and time

[Spinneyhill]

2 hours ago, John348 said:

 

So you think every piece was done by hand? I million cars is four million hub caps........ a lot of labor and time

 

No, not at all. By a jig, I mean a machine jig to operate the air brush. Maybe even a set of brushes to form the shape required?

 

The same question might arise about the pin striping on body and wheels. And in some cars, there was a different colour in a depressed area around the windows. Was there a person or persons pin striping every wheel?

[Guest Skyking]

5 hours ago, John348 said:

 

So you think every piece was done by hand? I million cars is four million hub caps........ a lot of labor and time

Add another million in dealer stock piles........

[Guest rb1949]

Clueless as to how they did so many. Wouldn't there still be someone alive who did the process? I only had 4 on the '49 so hand painted them. Black enamel on Stainless.

[John348]

1 hour ago, rb1949 said:

Clueless as to how they did so many. Wouldn't there still be someone alive who did the process? I only had 4 on the '49 so hand painted them. Black enamel on Stainless.

 

 

 

That is why I started this thread I was hoping someone would know or knew someone who was familiar how this was done

[60FlatTop]

I bet the answer is similar to factory wood graining techniques. Lots of hand dabbing with paint on small pads. A person doing piece work at 200 units a day, 6 days a week could knock out over 60,000 in a year.They probably did better than that.

 

My first job after the Navy was as a mechanic at the Superba Cravats tie company where little old ladies ground out the Johnny Carson neck ties. They could push some product through. I can see the same practice in the hub cap industry.

Bernie

[drwatson]

It's so difficult to achieve that even sheen on painted motifs the factory puts out. When I inspect a great restoration, I get down for a close look at painted details; I can always tell if it was done by hand.......sorry!   Often it looks amateur!

[Curti]

 

47 minutes ago, drwatson said:

It's so difficult to achieve that even sheen on painted motifs the factory puts out. When I inspect a great restoration, I get down for a close look at painted details; I can always tell if it was done by hand.......sorry!   Often it looks amateur!

 

I agree drwatson.  I think there was a mask and it was sprayed.  That is easy on a flat surface, but I don't know how to deal a dome, and how do you deal with letters so it doesn't look look a stencil.

[padgett]

My thought is a big stamping machine churning these out, then paint applied with a stencil.

 

If you look at the curves (no reverse) it is consistent with a stamping process (or die casting but not how these were done).

Edited November 26, 2016 by padgett (see edit history)

[Harold]

My 2 cents.....The caps were surface-wiped with grease,  dipped into a shallow pan of paint, and then the excess paint was wiped off. 

Edited November 27, 2016 by Harold (see edit history)

[Restorer32]

Never underestimate how fast the human hand can do a repetitive task. A local company manufactured "widgets" that required an operator to remove the part from the machine and insert another. The workers, mostly women, were paid piece rate. The production dept discovered that the women were routinely completing more parts per hour than the machines were capable of at the speed they were running. Turned out the workers were wrapping masking tape around the drive pulleys of the machines to increase their speed. Those caps were likely painted in on a semi automated silk screening set up using long lasting lead based paints.

[poci1957]

OK, so what about tooth for the paint to stick to the surface?  Was there a self etching paint back in the day that could stick well?

[Restorer32]

Apparently.

[Restorer32]

We tape up and glass bead stainless or chrome before painting. Seems to work well.