Coupe...the word has lost all meaning.

[Paul Dobbin]

Interesting discussion here is mostly semantic's of automobile terminology, abused for years by lesser minds than this forum.

As a young man, in the 1970's with a 1934 Ford Tudor, I heard a guy tell me his "father had a Model T Roadster just like it".

Later our 1934 Ford Phaeton was called a "Touring", a "Convertible"' and a "Phantom & 4 door Roadster".  Then last week as

we were enjoying the AACA Sentimental Tour and Canada Joe's 30 Cadillac "Coupe", our 1934 Ford Fordor was called  

"Roadster" by a well meaning admirer.  

I've always taken it all as attempts to sound informed by people who just want a chance to share their stories with owners of

cars they admire.  I just say, "To bad you didn't keep a car that rare, Thank you for your interest.  

No harm done, unlike in politic's where misinformation and deception is rampant and intentional. 

 

[Bhigdog]

I don't care what you call the body but PLEASE, just don't call the engine a motor....................Bob

[Guest]

Before we get too far into embellishing etc. about some person's advertisement we need to remember some English (American) grammer:  "there" is somewhere else, "their" is possessive as in the car has closed quarters.  Also break means not whole (ie. broken) brake means to stop.  Hole means something is missing and whole means nothing is missing.   A lamp assembly (light) on a vehicle is usually made up of a body, a socket, a bulb, a lens (not lense) and a bezel.  None of these pieces by themselves are a lamp or light.  It takes all of them to be a lamp.

Why do we say rear brake light or rear tail light do any of you have an automobile with a brake or tail light on the front? 

I read somewhere about a sliver in someone's eye and a pole in someone else's. Not criticizing or complaining, just saying.  :-}  :-}

[nzcarnerd]

32 minutes ago, Tinindian said:

Before we get too far into embellishing etc. about some person's advertisement we need to remember some English (American) grammer:  "there" is somewhere else, "their" is possessive as in the car has closed quarters.  Also break means not whole (ie. broken) brake means to stop.  Hole means something is missing and whole means nothing is missing.   A lamp assembly (light) on a vehicle is usually made up of a body, a socket, a bulb, a lens (not lense) and a bezel.  None of these pieces by themselves are a lamp or light.  It takes all of them to be a lamp.

Why do we say rear brake light or rear tail light do any of you have an automobile with a brake or tail light on the front? 

I read somewhere about a sliver in someone's eye and a pole in someone else's. Not criticizing or complaining, just saying.  :-}  :-}

The language has always been misused.  A common one in car ads in the local paper in pre internet days was 'rear' instead of 'rare'.  Seeing as most of the ads were phoned in the blame could be laid with the person at the paper typing the ads.

 

Yes, "rear tail lights" is in common usage on this side of the Pacific too.

 

To further what Hudsy Wudsy said rare and scarce are somewhat similar as 'scarce as hens teeth' and 'rare as rocking horse dung' are similar......

[smithbrother]

Olds had a TRUE COUPE in 1939, a 2-door, with possibly seats in back, maybe NOT.  But it was a real coupe, like the 40 Ford coupe, and many other COUPLES.  hehe.

 

Google IMAGES OF 1939 OLDSMOBILE COUPES, and see images.

 

Dale in Indy

[padgett]

I suspect the major element is two doors. And shorter than a sedan. Thus a 70 GTO is a coupe (112" WB) and Tempest 4 door is a Sedan (116" WB).

 

Personally find landau, roadster, convertible coupe, cabriolet, and speedster easier:

Convertible coupe - same interior as hardtop with disappearing top.

Landau: convertible with external hardware

Cabriolet: Convertible with exposed roof when folded

Roadster: top disappears under tonneau when folded - two seater

Speedster: removable folding roof and side curtains - two seater

 

Now if everyone would just agree with this ...

[Restorer32]

11 hours ago, Bhigdog said:

I don't care what you call the body but PLEASE, just don't call the engine a motor....................Bob

Well, unless you are discussing the 1936 Thorne gas/electric milk truck we restored. It had both an engine and a motor.

[Guest Skyking]

The terminology I just can't get over which every import manufacturer uses is "Sports Sedan".  Somehow those two words don't relate.

[alsancle]

Actually, with a prewar sedan you can pick out the "sports sedan" pretty quick.  It is always a blind quarter, seats 4 and a very low green house.  Examples:

 

1. The 20 grand.

2. The Packard Dietrich Sedans

3. Some of the Franklin Dietrich sedans

[Bhigdog]

1 hour ago, Restorer32 said:

Well, unless you are discussing the 1936 Thorne gas/electric milk truck we restored. It had both an engine and a motor.

 

You are correct. One of each...............Bob

[padgett]

I always liked Unca Tom's definition of a sports car (or sports sedan for that matter) as one you can drive during the week and race (competitively) on weekends. Would add the proviso that "race" must include both left and right turns.

[JACK M]

3 hours ago, Bhigdog said:

 

You are correct. One of each...............Bob

 

Then what is a motor car?

[smithbrother]

A  motor car is one with a motor that operates a heater blower.  hehe

 

Dale in Indy 

[Restorer32]

"To  motor" is a verb meaning to drive or ride in an automobile so "motorcar" refers to a vehicle with an engine that one "motors" in. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[1912Staver]

I work as a marine Engineer. If it has a heat engine it is either a "steam ship" or a "motor vessel" .  When I went in for exams I sat for my EK {engineering knowledge} Motor one day and EK General the next.  And all the ships I have worked on have 1  or more great big Marine Diesels . But in official terms they are called Motor Vessels. In fact my certificate states Marine Engineer Motor , would state Marine Engineer Steam if I had served on and written the exams for a Steam Ship.

Greg in Canada

[AzBob]

The oil patch had a position called "Motor Man"  Was responsible for the diesel engine set on an oil rig.

[Bhigdog]

I know. I know. The terms can be interchanged but to me referring to an engine as a motor just sounds amateurish......................Bob

[Bhigdog]

1 hour ago, 1912Staver said:

I work as a marine Engineer. If it has a heat engine it is either a "steam ship" or a "motor vessel" .  When I went in for exams I sat for my EK {engineering knowledge} Motor one day and EK General the next.  And all the ships I have worked on have 1  or more great big Marine Diesels . But in official terms they are called Motor Vessels. In fact my certificate states Marine Engineer Motor , would state Marine Engineer Steam if I had served on and written the exams for a Steam Ship.

Greg in Canada

 

And in the US Navy the guy that sees after the main propulsion plant is rated as an engineman.

 

Enginemen (EN) operate, maintain, and repair (organizational and intermediate level) internal-combustion engines, main propulsion machinery, refrigeration, air conditioning, gas turbine engines, and assigned auxiliary equipment on Navy ships; stand safety watches on auxiliary boilers and other assigned equipment

Read more at: https://www.navycs.com/navy-jobs/engineman.html

[Hudsy Wudsy]

So, back to the subject of coupes for a moment. I'm including a link to a C/L ad for a '34 Olds "business" coupe. A salesman couldn't do much business out a trunk like this one unless he was in the matchstick business. It isn't a great picture, but it's easy enough to see the body style with it's closely positioned seats and abbreviated trunk. I know these bodies to called "Victorias". Do we all agree on that name, or are there other words for this style body?

 

http://siouxfalls.craigslist.org/cto/5607741730.html

Edited June 22, 2016 by Hudsy Wudsy (see edit history)

[poci1957]

 

 

Not so easy, I looked it up and Olds called it a Touring Coupe.  This to denote a 2dr sedan with a built in trunk along with the 4dr Touring Sedan with the built in trunk.  These varying labels could never end!

[Joe in Canada]

Like I said before the auto industry never set any guidelines on body terminology. Only the hobbyist has I believe.

[Hudsy Wudsy]

Yeah, Poci, you're right! I looked it up and Olds did called this body a "Touring Coupe". Buick, meanwhile, called this body style a "Victoria Coupe". I think that they are identical bodies, but at this point I'll think I'll stop exploring the squirmy subject.

 

 

[poci1957]

Yup, so they did, Buick said Victoria coupe so I guess that was right after all.  It doesn't appear they are actually the same body but they are essentially the same configuration.  I agree trying to clarify this further may be futile, I wonder if we should take my 1957 Pontiac Intercontinental and your Olds Business Coupe with room for 5 and start a new thread for bogus classified ad descriptions--- THAT could run on forever!  Todd C

[keiser31]

My business coupes....full trunk with no rumble seat....

[Hudsy Wudsy]

 

21 minutes ago, poci1957 said:

Yup, so they did, Buick said Victoria coupe so I guess that was right after all.  It doesn't appear they are actually the same body but they are essentially the same configuration.  I agree trying to clarify this further may be futile, I wonder if we should take my 1957 Pontiac Intercontinental and your Olds Business Coupe with room for 5 and start a new thread for bogus classified ad descriptions--- THAT could run on forever!  Todd C

Yeah, and how about we contact all of these guys directly and tell them that nobody cares if there rear doors are suicide!!! They are still just doors!

Edited June 22, 2016 by Hudsy Wudsy (see edit history)

[Hudsy Wudsy]

John, your coupe is so pretty !!!

[keiser31]

24 minutes ago, Hudsy Wudsy said:

John, your coupe is so pretty !!!

Thanks.

[padgett]

Coupe just needs a J2 Olds and a LaSalle tranny.

 

ps sounds like "Motor" is a UK thing and "Engine" is American. Two countries separated by a common language.

[Guest]

12 hours ago, Skyking said:

The terminology I just can't get over which every import manufacturer uses is "Sports Sedan".  Somehow those two words don't relate.

 I have a 62 Pontiac Catalina two door post sedan. I call it a two door sedan, however Pontiac calls it a sports sedan. I'll bet Olds, Buick and Chevrolet of that era call them a sports sedan as well.

When Pontiac came out with it's first 2 dr. hardtop in 1950 it was called Catalina and it was referred to as a hardtop coupe. When Pontiac introduced it's first 4 door pillar less Hardtop it was called a Catalina Sedan! 

[8E45E]

On ‎2016‎-‎06‎-‎20 at 10:15 PM, Matt Harwood said:

Both BMW and Mercedes are now calling 4-door sedans "coupes" because they have sleeker roof lines. Both have SUVs with four doors that they call coupes.

 

 

I believe they call the four doors "coupes" is because of the factory 'chopped' rooflines which give it that sleeker appearance.  BMW, Mercedes and VW were not the first ones to label a 4-door a 'coupe'.  Rover was the first with its P5 model in the 1960's, noticeable with its lower roofline, and thin window frames.  The car was supposed to be a pillarless hardtop, but they could not make the body rigid enough to do so.

 

Craig

[poci1957]

15 hours ago, 8E45E said:

Rover was the first with its P5 model in the 1960's, noticeable with its lower roofline, and thin window frames.  The car was supposed to be a pillarless hardtop, but they could not make the body rigid enough to do so.

 

Those are a good looking car

[JACK M]

My business coupe.

Does it make my butt look big?

[poci1957]

I think we can all agree that is an actual business coupe, very cool 

[JACK M]

Thank You.

[Vila]

First, I agree with most comments above.

 

The first antique car I bought was a 1933 Chevrolet that I got in 1971 and still own.  I got the car while I was in college and the owner allowed me to buy it on a payment plan since he wanted to buy another car and needed the space taken up by the 1933 Chevrolet.

 

When I bought the car I was new to antique cars and decided I needed to learn correct terminology for older cars.

 

At least for Chevrolet the terms Touring, Roadster, Sedan, Coach, Coupe and 5 Passenger Coupe come to mind for the earlier body styles.  Then later the term Phaeton and other came into play.

 

Some terms are unique to specific brands.  These include terms like Fordor, which I believe is a Ford term that refers to a Ford 4 door sedan.  For me, It is insulting when someone refers to a 4 door Chevrolet Sedan as a Fordor.

 

Same issues apply to aviation.  I have a 42 year military flying background and many of my friends are airline pilots.  Some of the news media aviation terms that have caught on show a lack of knowledge in the aviation field.   Number one is Tarmac.  You know the place where Arthur Kent says they park all airplanes and every news person now refers to the parking "Ramp or Flight Line" as tarmac.  Actually large military and commercial aircraft are parked on concrete so ruts are not formed in the parking surface.  Small airfield used by Bug Smashers may use tarmac for there ramp material, since the aircraft are light, but not normally for large commercial or military aircraft.  At large airfields taxiways and runways are normally "tarmac", but the parking spots are concrete.

 

Don't get me started on the use of the word AN.