Cadillac LaSalle Club changes policy

[Restorer32]

and will now judge modifieds, hot rods and resto mods in their own class.

[John348]

Was this something the membership wanted or the board trying to reinvent the club?

[Guest AlCapone]

Times must be getting tough ! Wayne

[edinmass]

That's why I sold my Cadillac's and left the club.

[K8096]

The real problem with the Cadillac LaSalle Club is it's been overrun with the newer cars, which is a turn off to the people with pre war cars.  My father has been a member since 1958, and I've been to many National Meets over the years.   I remember going to a National Meet at Greenfield Village in the early 1980's when I was a kid and there was a whole row of V8 Cadillac touring cars from the teens.  Another row of early one and four cylinder cars. Then a whole row of V 16's.  That made a big impression on me as a 10 year old kid.  I went to the National Meet in Columbus, OH a couple years ago.  There was one one cylinder car, no 4 cylinder cars, maybe one V8 from the teens, and only 2 V 16's.  Columbus, Ohio is very centrally located and is within a half day drive of Cleveland, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Chicago, Detroit, Buffalo, and Indianapolis.  To get that kind of turnout of early cars at a National Meet in July is pathetic.  The weather was perfect too.  1/3 of the parking lot was 1970's-1990's Cadillacs.  The club accepts cars as new as 10 years old for display and judging.  Older folks would rather drive a modern Cadillac with power steering & A/C than a historical one.  During the meet, the section of the parking lot with the 1970's & newer cars looks like a ghost town as no one was looking at them.  I'm not saying some 1970's or 80's Cadillac aren't collectible, some are and should be cherished & restored, but when 1/3 of the show field is populated with them, to me it's not a balanced representation of the 110 year history of Cadillac.  Sorry if what I've said isn't politically correct, but sometimes the truth hurts.           

Edited July 9, 2015 by K8096 (see edit history)

[joe_padavano]

The real problem with the Cadillac LaSalle Club is it's been overrun with the newer cars, which is a turn off to the people with pre war cars.  My father has been a member since 1958, and I've been to many National Meets over the years.   I remember going to a National Meet at Greenfield Village in the early 1980's when I was a kid and there was a whole row of V8 Cadillac touring cars from the teens.  Another row of early one and four cylinder cars. Then a whole row of V 16's.  That made a big impression on me as a 10 year old kid.  I went to the National Meet in Columbus, OH a couple years ago.  There was one one cylinder car, no 4 cylinder cars, maybe one V8 from the teens, and only 2 V 16's.  Columbus, Ohio is very centrally located and is within a half day drive of Cleveland, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Chicago, Detroit, Buffalo, and Indianapolis.  To get that kind of turnout of early cars at a National Meet in July is pathetic.  The weather was perfect too.  1/3 of the parking lot was 1970's-1990's Cadillacs.  The club accepts cars as new as 10 years old for display and judging.  Older folks would rather drive a modern Cadillac with power steering & A/C than a historical one.  During the meet, the section of the parking lot with the 1970's & newer cars looks like a ghost town as no one was looking at them.  I'm not saying some 1970's or 80's Cadillac aren't collectible, some are and should be cherished & restored, but when 1/3 of the show field is populated with them, to me it' s not a balanced representation of the 110 year history of Cadillac.  Sorry if what I've said isn't politically correct, but sometimes the truth hurts.           

 

Sorry, but the truth that hurts is that people collect cars that were popular when they were kids.  That means that those of use who are boomers will gravitate towards the 60s and 70s cars.  I can appreciate prewar and older cars, but I don't want to own one.  If a club won't accept new blood with newer cars, it will die.  That's the truth.

[K8096]

I'm 41 and an primarily interested in pre WWII cars.  

[danleblanc]

Joe is correct. The shift is moving towards what it collectible.

At the 2013 board meeting in Lake George last year a cap was put on vehicles entered for class judging at the 1999 model year. Also at that time, a new chief judge was installed. Bill Anderson is revamping the judging system to more reflect the car's condition as it was delivered new to the original owner. Judging is becoming more precise and cars will not compete against each other. They will compete against the scoresheet based on authenticity manuals.

The CLC has had a modified chapter for many years with many CLC members in good standing who felt shunned and unwelcome at Grand Nationals. The adoption of this new class of judging was an effort to include all members and has received positive responses from the feedback I've gotten.

We are merely adapting to meet today's demands to ensure the long term viability of the club as tastes change as new enthusiasts enter the fold.

Anyone wishing to get further information on the positive changes is welcome to check out the chief judge's blog here:

http://www.cadillaclasalleclub.org/category/chief-judges-blog/

[Joe in Canada]

I have a 1930 Cadillac coupe and never joined the C L club as they seem to be newer cars that do not interest me. I was at the CCCA Museum Experience in June and there display at their museum also seems to center around the newer cars to me. If you look around most clubs seem to be attracting newer cars no different than cruse nights. I am not into reliving the 60s, 70s or 80s I am just interested in early mechanical technology. The wife and I are headed for Lancaster Pa. for the AACA Vintage Tour the end of the month where I hope I will have the newest car there.

I also got an email to-day from the CCCA club for their Sept. tour 2016 where they are planning to hooking up with the AACA Glidden Tour for a day. Planning to attend that event also with AACA.

[K8096]

danleblanc said:  "The shift is moving towards what it collectible."

 

My response is:  Pre 1950 Cadillacs are not collectible anymore?   

Edited July 9, 2015 by K8096 (see edit history)

[danleblanc]

Collectible doesn't necessarily mean popular. The numbers speak for themselves. I have a 61 Fleetwood and at the vast majority of shows I go to, many times I'm the oldest car there. My 62 is very comfortable, keeps up with modern traffic, and lacks nothing to me. I'm 37.

Many people collecting cars today can't even relate to pre-1950's cars. I also own a 53 Cadillac I'm bringing home tomorrow night to start bringing back from the dead. Last time I checked, not s lot of people are restoring those either.

Whether we like it or not, appeal is shifting. With it means what people enjoy is as well. I have a friend with a beautiful 38 Lasalle. I've driven in it several times and can't envision myself driving it anywhere. At 63, neither can he - it is just too uncomfortable, and he wouldn't dare take it on I-81 in his area. That's why it's going up for sale and he'll find a newer Cadillac he finds he can get more enjoyment out of.

The times, they are a changin.

[K8096]

I don't think 63 is old at all.  Your friend must have health problems.  My father was 76 three years ago when he drove his 1941 Cadillac on I 71 at 60 mph for two hours one way on an 85 degree day to attend the Grand National in Columbus.  

 

As far as restoring 1953 Cadillacs goes, I believe most of the convertibles, Eldorados, and many of the coupe de Villes have already been restored, or are nicely preserved originals, so that's why you don't hear about new restorations on them so much.   To try to do a complete restoration on a 1953 Cadillac sedan (or just about any 1950's sedan for that matter) is an exercise in futility.  The chrome bill alone will be more that what the car is worth done.  

 

Maybe to solution is for the Cadillac LaSalle Club to split in two.  1948 & earlier (last year for the flathead V8), and 1949 & newer including modified (1949 was 1st year for the OHV V8).  

 

Who do you think is going to buy your friends LaSalle?   Don't you want that person to join the Cadillac LaSalle Club?    Or would you rather one of those cable TV shows buy it and destroy it?   

 

You say times are changing.  I consider myself a historian and a preservationist.  I guess those characteristics aren't welcome in that club anymore.       

Edited July 10, 2015 by K8096 (see edit history)

[Steve_Mack_CT]

It seems clubs and times may in fact be changing, which will likely lead to some more division in the hobby. Those who are interested in a particular period will seek the best venues and clubs for their own interests. Cannot remember the last cruise night we attended to see the same stuff I likely wouldn't spend a lot of time on at at a show.

It's true a lot of people are primarily interested in cars of their youth,but their will always be those collectors who look beyond that to eras of interest. Seems like I meet more and more younger guys with prewar stuff lately. Good for the future of those cars in terms of exposure to the public and getting them out on the road.

Edited July 10, 2015 by Steve_Mack_CT (see edit history)

[John348]

I am sad to see this happen. Nothing against those here who desire modified and newer cars. One has to question why people join a club that does not reflect their interest and insist on changing it, why not just start their own club?

 

The same situation last year was attempted by the Vintage Chevrolet Club of America, and a coalition of past Executive Board Members representing the concerned membership and with their help were able to maintain the club to what it it was when everyone joined. I do not know the by-laws of the CLC, but maybe their is a provision for the membership in there to overturn such a decision.

 

Here is the link from that particular issue to a discussion on this site. If you don't like it let your BOD know and get others to do the same

Best of luck

 

http://forums.aaca.org/topic/244715-crisis-in-the-vintage-chevrolet-club/?hl=%2Bcrisis+%2Bvcca

[John_S_in_Penna]

Modified cars may be great for some people, but historical

clubs, I feel, should remain historical.  No modifieds.

After all, they don't invite mules to horse shows.

 

I enjoy cars from just about any era.  I wish Cadillac still made

cars like the comfortable, colorful velour-lined cruisers of the 1970's.

But I enjoy seeing the earlier cars too.  Someday I may have at least

one (of various makes) from every decade 1910's-up.

 

A good show should have diversity and include plenty of pre-war

cars--and that does happen to some extent in AACA events here

in Pennsylvania--and as the Teens and Twenties cars become

less popular, their price will fall, attracting some new blood.  

 

The Lincoln and Continental Owners' Club is heavily populated

with 1970's cars too.

Edited July 10, 2015 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[Joe in Canada]

Our grand kids are hoping the price of scrap metal is up when they inherit our cars. No mater if it is a 16 Cyl. Cadillac or a 1964 SS Impala the same price $300. a ton.

[K8096]

"The Lincoln and Continental Owners' Club is heavily populated with 1970's cars too."

 

There are actually 4 Lincoln clubs.  The two that are primarily pre war are the Lincoln Owners Club which is for 1920-1939 model L & K Lincolns, and the Lincoln Zephyr Owners Club which caters to Zephyrs and Continentals 1936-48.    Because of these two clubs, most folks with these cars don't join the other Lincoln clubs which cater more to the newer cars.   

[Matt Harwood]

I was at that Columbus Grand National meet, drove my 1929 Cadillac straight down I-71 and home in a monsoon. I didn't even think of driving my 2010 CTS, which was also welcome on the show field. Heck, I felt like it was cheating by having my wife drive the 1993 Allante we had for sale. Best moment of the show? My 3-year-old son walking up to the owner of a purple 1950s Cadillac with a hood scoop and stating, "I hate your car." Of course we castigated the boy for saying it, but I couldn't disagree with him.

 

I think we're seeing a lot of '70s and '80s cars simply because we allow them, not because of growing popularity. They're cheap, they're easy to drive, they make no demands on an owner beyond gas and oil, and the clubs treat them exactly the same as a 1931 V16. And once in a while, usually while trying to solve a problem by the side of the road, I can understand the appeal of turning the key and knowing you'll get home. As I've said many times, it's very easy to love a new car. Wash it, wax it, buy it a trinket now and then, life is easy. You don't have to bleed for them. People are driving them because it's a painless way to participate and still feel like you're actively involved. It's a little lie they tell themselves, trying to convince themselves that they really do love that putty-colored 1982 Sedan DeVille as much as a 1941 60 Special or a 1954 Fleetwood. They're all Cadillac 4-door sedans, after all...

 

Old cars are about more than getting there on time, they're about the journey. Everyone is focused on convenience and forgets the journey is the special part. I look forward to the drive, not the car show at the destination. In fact, I HATE car shows--I only go because it's an excuse to drive my old car. I know that old cars are a workout to drive, but isn't that kind of the point?

 

These cars aren't popular because they're popular, they're popular because they're easy and because they're permissible. Our society is all about the shortcut, the quick fix, the painless solution. This is but one symptom of it.

Edited July 10, 2015 by Matt Harwood (see edit history)

[61polara]

I think it will help this discussion if someone will post the actual language of what change has been made and what is now allowed.

[Matt Harwood]

Whether we like it or not, appeal is shifting. With it means what people enjoy is as well. I have a friend with a beautiful 38 Lasalle. I've driven in it several times and can't envision myself driving it anywhere. At 63, neither can he - it is just too uncomfortable, and he wouldn't dare take it on I-81 in his area. That's why it's going up for sale and he'll find a newer Cadillac he finds he can get more enjoyment out of.

The times, they are a changin.

 

To me, a 1938 LaSalle is a very drivable car. I could easily see driving such a machine long distances, happily, without complaint. Smooth V8 capable of 60 MPH speeds, good hydraulic brakes, independent suspension, comfortable seating, good ventilation, big trunk. What's not to love? 1938 is a sweet spot for people who like to drive old cars, because they were right on the cusp of being "modern." There's a vast, vast difference between my 1929 Cadillac and a 1938 Cadillac, and it's a shame that you'd feel that it wasn't a road-worthy car. What was missing? What was difficult about it? No power steering? No stereo? No A/C? I just can't wrap my head around the thought that a high-end 1938 car of any kind could be a chore to drive. Too hot inside on a hot day? Maybe. Inferior driving dynamics? Nope.

[Matt Harwood]

You painted too broad a brush with your statement, basically condemning any Cadillac with PS, power accessories and A/C.  I did not buy my 67 Eldorados for those reasons. 

 

You may be right, perhaps I was a little broad, but even you have to admit that a 1967 Eldorado (one of the great styling and engineering achievements of the 1960s) isn't the same as a 1983 Eldorado with a wheezing diesel engine. There are plenty of interesting cars from the '70s and '80s, but my point is that they aren't ALL interesting yet we act like they are. Maybe that's a little snobbish, but whomever pointed out that the show fields where these cars are parked are completely devoid of spectators is putting a very fine point on it. A hobby whose marquee national shows look like your average used car lot won't survive long at all.

 

To paraphrase a certain Supreme Court Justice: I can't tell you what a collector car is, but I know one when I see one.

[K8096]

Imperial62, You don't have to rich to buy a  top of the line 30's car.  Try this one on for size:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lincoln-Other-K-Model-/291426293558?forcerrptr=true&hash=item43da5c5736&item=291426293558

 

25K buys you this 1937 Lincoln K factory bodied 5 passenger sedan.  rebuilt 414 cubic inch V 12, aluminum coachwork, sidemounts,  And this one didn't need too much work to be really nice again.  No, it's not a convertible coupe or phaeton (which would be priced exponentially more), but it gets your foot in the door and on the same show field with other elite cars.        

 

By the way, when I was born, I came home from the hospital in an all black '64 Imperial.  Nice car!   

Edited July 10, 2015 by K8096 (see edit history)

[Terry Wiegand]

You know guys this discussion could get me in a lot of trouble. As the owner of three Pre-War Buicks, a lot of what has been written here is very near and dear to my heart. I have been playing with 'old' cars for over 50 years now. And I will be the first to tell you all on here that what the

Cadillac/LaSalle Club is doing is no different than what the Buick Club is doing. You have the same management folks running the show at both places. In the Buick Club the pre-war owners very much feel like there is an open and conscious effort to push them off to the side and concentrate on the 1970's and later models. Matt Harwood could not have described the Buick Club National Meet in Springfield, Missouri any better had he been there. The show field

looked like Scholfield Honda/GMC in Wichita, Kansas - plumb full of late model used cars. Some of the owners of these late model cars were heard bitching and complaining that nobody was walking by their vehicles to look at them. Give me a choice of looking at an early 90's sedan or a 100 year old Buick

truck and guess where I will be. I am a Life Member in the AACA and the Horseless Carriage Club. Neither of these clubs allow modified, or hot rods if

you will. Someone is going to have to explain to me why the AACA is gaining new members and some of these other clubs are losing members. This person so

happens to think that it is because of all of the BS and political correctness in the lesser clubs is going to be their downfall. I love my old Buicks

because they hark back to a period in time when life was slower. People took pride in their workmanship and it showed in the automobiles that were built.

My youngest son-in-law is 36 years old and his idea of an antique car is a '55 Chevrolet. I grew up in those things. I remember when they were new. In

my opinion they are just used cars to me. I will certainly agree that there were some very good looking vehicles built in the 50's to late 60's - but I

have no desire to own any of them. You guys on here that are so down on the old, pre-war cars had ought to get in touch with Jay Leno and tell him that

he doesn't know where it's at. I am personally of the opinion that there is room for everybody in the old car hobby. It's just that some of you guys

need to be in the American Hot Rod Association instead of polluting us folks that enjoy and love original cars. I have respect for the hot rodders'

craftsmanship, but, that's as far as I will go. Now, go ahead and holler and complain about what I have said on here, but, remember one thing. We are

supposed to all be adults and able to take some criticism from time to time. There is absolutely nothing that anybody can say on here that will make me

stop liking pre-war Buicks.

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

[Guest]

I am sad to see this happen. Nothing against those here who desire modified and newer cars. One has to question why people join a club that does not reflect their interest and insist on changing it, why not just start their own club?

 

The same situation last year was attempted by the Vintage Chevrolet Club of America, and a coalition of past Executive Board Members representing the concerned membership and with their help were able to maintain the club to what it it was when everyone joined. I do not know the by-laws of the CLC, but maybe their is a provision for the membership in there to overturn such a decision.

 

Here is the link from that particular issue to a discussion on this site. If you don't like it let your BOD know and get others to do the same

Best of luck

 

http://forums.aaca.org/topic/244715-crisis-in-the-vintage-chevrolet-club/?hl=%2Bcrisis+%2Bvcca

 

Couldn't agree more. Well said John.

[LINC400]

I have to say that I get real tired of the "nothing but a used car" comments on 1970's cars. They have not been seen on the roads or used car lots in any kind of quantities for at least 25 years. Most of the people making these comments are talking about prewar cars they started collecting when the cars were 20-25 years old, yet a 40 year old 1970's car is not old enough to be considered an antique by them. I like 1970's cars because of their style. I even was impressed looking at some Pintos, a car I used to laugh at, because it was amazing to see all the different colors, options, and interiors available on them as opposed to today's gray econoboxes. I like the flash and fins of 1950's cars also, as well as the streamlining and Art Deco touches on 1930's and '40's cars. But the 1910's - 20's cars look pretty bland to me for the most part. And anything from the 1900's looks to me like it should be being pulled by a horse. But I am glad that someone saves, restores, and enjoys them. I am not going to bash their owners like plenty of people do about 1970's and '80's cars.

 

As far as not seeing enough prewar cars on the showfield, that is because a good portion of them are in museums or private collections and never leave the garage. Of the ones that do leave the garage, at least half are rolled out of an enclosed trailer only long enough to be judged, collect a trophy, and then rolled back in. Whereas I bet the majority of those 1970's and '80's cars are actually being driven and enjoyed. At many shows I have been to, for prewar cars you were looking at a closed trailer for most of the show, while the 1970's and '80's cars were out for the entire week for all to see. Some prewar cars are actually driven and I applaud that. However, I take long road trips that can last for a week, and I would rather do it in a car that can go 75 mph, has a decent radio, a/c, decent heat, a comfy ride, and reliable windshield wipers. I don't see how there is anything wrong with that. I am supposed to sweat, freeze, go 30 mph, listen to static, and get soaked when it rains, otherwise I am not enjoying an old car experience?

 

The older I get, the less I want to work on it. Some people enjoy that, and that is fine. But I would rather spend my time driving and enjoying it. As far as having it worked on, it isn't any easier than a prewar car. Most places don't know what to do with it since they can't plug it into a computer. And restoration places don't want to deal with it either. They don't want to diagnose and repair it. They want a car dropped off with a blank check for a megabuck restoration. Some restoration places even claim it is too new for them to deal with. I have had it 3 different places for a week each trying to diagnose a strange intermittent dying out problem that no one can diagnose. So how is it supposed to be so much easier than a prewar car?

 

As far as parts, you can get way more reproduction and original parts for Packards, Ford Model A's and T's than you can for 1970's Lincolns. You can get some 460 engine parts because they were used in Ford trucks, but for anything Lincoln exclusive, forget it. I was surprised that there were way more reproduction parts available for my father's Nash Metropolitan than there are for my car. A few years ago, I was stranded for several days out of state while a shop custom fabricated a part for my car because no one could locate a part for it, new, used, junkyard, Ebay, or anywhere. So how is that supposed to be so much easier than a prewar car?

 

Sorry, I don't see how owning a 1970's car is lazy, faking the antique car experience, or anything else negative some people have claimed in this thread. Am I supposed to own something I don't like in order to make a few curmudgeons happy?

Edited July 10, 2015 by LINC400 (see edit history)

[sambarn]

When my dad first joined AACA, I remember guys teasing him about his used car and how he needed a proper antique. It was 1978 and our car was a 34 Chevy. If you collect cars so that random strangers will say nice things on the internet about your cars, you enjoy a different aspect of the hobby then I do. If you do it because you love the cars, then love the cars. I don't know whats going on in the CLC but I hope it works well for them. I am interested to see what their interpretation of modified is. My 61 series 62 convertible has non authentic paint (it was a fire chief's car and painted to match the trucks), A/C and a gauge pack mounted under the dash (F%$#$^G idiot lights are not helpful) Would this put me in the mod class? If so then great, it's like a DPC class. As far as 70s Cadillacs go, they are fabulous cars, a hoot to drive and simply gorgeous I have a pair of 73s that I am very proud of but for me the disappointing part of the CLC is the plethora of 90s Fleetwoods and later cars. However I know that some guy loves that car and wants to show it off. And they need a club too. I hope the CLC is able to increase membership and continue their club for a long time. It didn't work out well for VCCA but hopefully everyone was able to learn from that.

[Restorer32]

How many modifieds can there possibly be at a CLC meet?   Does throwing some Crager S/S wheels on a 75 Coupe deVille constitue modified at CLC?

 

I was at the Goodguys Heartland Nationals last weekend as a spectator and there were maybe 15 modified Cadillacs out of 2250 cars. 

 

K8096 - you act like this is specific to CLC but it isn't. 

 

Regarding the pre-war v post war, does it not make sense to you?   Where are the owners of those impressive Cadillacs you saw as a child?  They are deceased for the most part. Their cars that they paid $100 for and restored for $1000 are now in museums or expensive collections and worth high 5 or 6 figures. 

 

I can't afford one.  The 63 year old noted above may have an issue shifting and trying to steer an old car, no need to call him disabled. 

 

Let me ask you this K, where did those pre war cars go? 

 

The CLC is fine. All clubs are experiencing decreasing membership.  Old car collecting had it's zenith about 15 years ago.  Restorations are non existent. It now costs $75,000 to restore a four door sedan or a convertible.  I am a model train hobbyist and train geek. Average age in our hobby is also around 65.  Not sure where the hobbies as clubs is going. 

 

Others have pointed out the number one reason you see fewer pre WW II cars at meets - any meets - we collect what we craved growing up. YOU K8096 are the exception.  I am 51, and I am pursuing a 1917 Buick but I have owned cars from every decade. Cadillac's high point was not the pre war period. Cadillac's halcyon days were 1941 to 1975, more specifically Harley Earl's power years. 

 

Mitchell's influence on Cadillac created some modern classics, including my favorite 67-69 Eldorado. 

 

If you don't want to be in the CLC because the meets have few pre war cars and are allowing modifieds, then consider the CCCA or AACA.

Restorations are non existent? Guess I better tell my employees and figure out what to do with this 8500sq ft building full of ongoing restoration projects.

[Restorer32]

Apparently CLC will accept any modified however wild. "Modified cars as defined by the CLC Judging Committee are one-off customs, hot rods and resto-rods, employing unique combinations of chassis, body and/or drivetrains that are  limited only by the owner's imagination". Caddy Rat Rod anyone?

[R Walling]

 I own several cars, some modified and some restored stock. When I go to a car show, I only look at cars that interest me, and pass the others without comment.

 

 Just because I don't care for them doesn't mean that they should not be there.

[danleblanc]

 I own several cars, some modified and some restored stock. When I go to a car show, I only look at cars that interest me, and pass the others without comment.

 

 Just because I don't care for them doesn't mean that they should not be there.

Roger.  You took the words right out of my mouth.

 

At last year's Grand National, a chap I know has a 1935 Cadillac sedan.  It has either a Cadillac 472 or 500, leather interior, a/c, radial tires with wire wheels, but, looks stock otherwise.  The car is drop-dead gorgeous to look at, is still all Cadillac, and, most important, is driven and enjoyed.  It's nowhere near a rat-rod.  What's so poor about his car that he should be leaving it behind or parking it out on the street for the meet?

 

Another CLC member in Australia is modifying a LaSalle - the way he's going looks like GM would've actually produced the car.  Should he not be allowed to show his car at a Cadillac meet?

 

In doing my 53, I'm considering an aftermarket EFI system on the original 331 engine and adding a Vintage Air trunk mounted unit using compressor brackets and an A-5 compressor from my 61 parts carfor a somewhat stock appearance under the hood.  What about the RediRad I'm going to mount behind the radio so that I can use the original AM radio to play music.  Other than that, the car will ride on bias ply tires, be refinished in it's original colour, and the interior done in reproduction materials from SMS in the original colour scheme. Does this mean I have to leave my car at home when I go to the Grand National?   Oh, wait, it's a sedan, so I might as well stop now before I start because I'll be highly upside down on the car after getting the chrome done.

 

Who are we, as a club, to say:

 

1.  Yes, you are a Cadillac enthusiast.

2.  Yes, you can join our club

3.  Yes, we'll take your membership fee and send you our magazine

4.  No, your car is not welcome and should be parked on the street because it is not factory correct.

 

How elitist would that be?

 

The CLC does not take policy modifications lightly.  They are extensively discussed at the two annual board meetings.  The regional VP's gather input from the local chapters and bring this to the board meetings - which, I may add, are open to any CLC member to attend.  The dates are always posted for the winter board meeting and the board always meets at a Grand National.  So, none of this was done behind closed doors and without consulting the membership.

 

So, rather than going on another car club's board and bashing the club behind it's back, why not contact your regional CLC VP, or the club president, and express your opinion.

 

I'm not sure if disparaging remarks against other club members are permitted on this forum.  The CLC is the first, and to my knowledge, to this date, the only car club that is a member of the AACA.  We joined in 2014 as a life member.  So, to speak so ill of the CLC and it's new direction would essentially be casting disparaging remarks against another AACA member.

 

With that, all I will say is that I am a proud CLC member (#27657), am very pleased that the CLC is forward thinking into the future, and that allowing a modified class and a different system of judging for these cars is a positive change.

 

You always miss 100% of the shots you don't take.  Maybe they'll have a slam dunk here, maybe we won't.  At least we can say we took the shot.

[danleblanc]

To me, a 1938 LaSalle is a very drivable car. I could easily see driving such a machine long distances, happily, without complaint. Smooth V8 capable of 60 MPH speeds, good hydraulic brakes, independent suspension, comfortable seating, good ventilation, big trunk. What's not to love? 1938 is a sweet spot for people who like to drive old cars, because they were right on the cusp of being "modern." There's a vast, vast difference between my 1929 Cadillac and a 1938 Cadillac, and it's a shame that you'd feel that it wasn't a road-worthy car. What was missing? What was difficult about it? No power steering? No stereo? No A/C? I just can't wrap my head around the thought that a high-end 1938 car of any kind could be a chore to drive. Too hot inside on a hot day? Maybe. Inferior driving dynamics? Nope.

To me, the car was made for the stature of a person of the 1930's.  I'm 6'1 and a very heavy set guy.  With the two of us in the front seat, the car is very cramped and uncomfortable.  The car has incredible torque - will idle up any hill in 3rd gear, but to me, it would be a trailer queen.  I'm a 50's/60's/70's guy.  After my 53 is done, I can see my Cadillac collection complete by adding a Fleetwood Talisman to the mix.  If I'd be making a week-long trip to a Grand National and back, the Talisman would be the car for me to do it in.  Cars of the 70's have recently started appealing to me.  70's Cadillacs are incredibly affordable, reliable, and all around great cars.  They have that mix of old and new all at the same time.

 

A 77-8-9 Lincoln Town Car is also appealing to me.

 

Some people like filet mignon, some people like a good prime rib.  Both are great, just a matter of preference.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

For me it's not about the latest fads or what club membership trends are. I think in term of clubs you will see more division as described above with lincolns. Whatever year cut off is agreed upon is one thing, but I don't think I would be interested in paying dues for a club that's trending towards cars that don't happen to interest me, especially modifieds. Yes, changes are sad for those of us more or less purists, but other change is happening also.

Used to be if you got involved with a new hobby car first advice would be to join the club. Now I would say, find the right Internet groups. It sure seems to me a lot of knowledge on the older stuff, ironically has migrated to specific groups online.

If you are a younger guy, or older, and the later stuff is your thing, have a ball. But I don't think interest is on the wane as much as one may think based on club trends. Just check out hcca on Facebook to see young guns playing with brass cars. At least half the t guys I know are younger than I am.

Bottom line, these clubs may do what they are going to do, but hobbyists now have alternative choices. Those most concerned with pleasing the masses to drive membership are likely full timers making a living from the club. They are inclined by self interest to expand. There is enough demand for alternative clubs also as illustrated by the lincoln guys.

[danleblanc]

 

 

You say times are changing.  I consider myself a historian and a preservationist.  I guess those characteristics aren't welcome in that club anymore.       

 

We're not saying there is no place for you.

 

At the same token, is it right to say that because your car isn't 100% factory correct (because you've taken a few liberties along the way) you're not welcome in the club either?  

 

What about the sea of over-restored cars I see at Hershey in the show?  Absolutely gorgeous cars to look at, but, you could say they're modified also.  Engine compartments that are shinier than new, glossy paint where the factory didn't use gloss.  Technically, those are modifications from factory specifications.

 

How many radiator supports and inner fenders with zero runs in the paint, with black paint an inch deep and polished to a very high gloss did you see roll off an assembly line when cars were new?  NONE.  How many of those show up at an AACA meet and win national awards?  Many.  In regular class judging at the CLC, that would earn you so many authenticity deductions, that you wouldn't even place at a National Level.

 

One cannot say we are not about authenticity, history, and factory correctness if that is the case.  With the new judging guidelines, factory correct will be held to an even higher standard than it was before.

[Restorer32]

I wouldn't write off the younger generations' interest in pre war cars just yet. Within the last year we have worked on or are working on cars from 1928, '32, '31 and '35 and '42, all belonging to folks under age 40 and all being restored to factory original or in the case of one, being preserved as original.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

That's interesting restorer. Nothing wrong with newer stuff and as mentioned above sometimes it can even be more challenging to work on, etc. But it seems to me that debating finishes on a restoration kind of fits in the types of things one might want to get out of a Marque focused club. Modification cars are a bit different.

MBCA ran a feature on a 60s SL last year that was modified with a ford engine. OK I guess for a one time feature but I think the club got the message that they would likely see some drop off if it was going to be a common thing. Are some members overly picky, maybe but at 50 bucks or more per year for a lot of these clubs it does give one pause to be sure they are getting whatever value they are looking for in the club. Not a judgment on others cars interests or whatever but more what makes sense in terms of interest.

[8E45E]

The real problem with the Cadillac LaSalle Club is it's been overrun with the newer cars, which is a turn off to the people with pre war cars. During the meet, the section of the parking lot with the 1970's & newer cars looks like a ghost town as no one was looking at them.  I'm not saying some 1970's or 80's Cadillac aren't collectible, some are and should be cherished & restored, but when 1/3 of the show field is populated with them, to me it's not a balanced representation of the 110 year history of Cadillac.  Sorry if what I've said isn't politically correct, but sometimes the truth hurts.           

Great comment, and soooooooooooooo true! 

 

I have always considered the 1966 Fleetwood Brougham the pinnacle of Cadillac's postwar 'Standard of the World' for luxury. It actually outgunned Rolls Royce as far as luxury and performance. Even the build quality was best for the day. What made it so, was the huge amounts of GENUINE wood and leather used inside the interior of these cars. (Click the link in the first post here to see one: http://forum.studeba...light=fleetwood ) Unfortunately, starting in 1967, the real wood trim diminished to nothing by 1971, and it was all plastic made to look like wood after that, while Rolls Royce, Mercedes Benz, BMW and others kept on producing cars with real leather and wood for their interiors. Clearly, the luxury car market was moving UP, and Cadillac and Lincoln were not! In fact, they went down-market in the interest of volume, and for a time, it worked until the hideous Cimarron made it go too far. When Cadillac was still downsizing, Rolls Royce introduced the Silver Spirit model which was larger in size than the Silver Shadow it replaced, and their sales increased. Mercedes and BMW also kept ahead with their 'bigger and better than the previous generation' S-Class and 7-series, respectively. Worse for Cadillac and Lincoln, Honda, Toyota and Nissan didn't sit still, either, and came out with marques that competed for Cadillac and Lincoln's business, effectively banishing the 'cheap tin box' image Japanese vehicles had in the '60's and '70's. While the 'boulevard ride' may be there in these Lincoln Town Cars, they still have a long ways to go to earn back their prominence they had 50 years ago. 

 

I can't say I've seen a modern Cadillac turned into a 'tuner car' yet, but I'm sure I will in due time.  Perhaps the club now has to accept this new generation of Cadillac owner.

 

Craig

 

[Paul Dobbin]

I won't argue with any of you, but look at his car. It's sill a Cadillac.

While would prefer white wall tires, or maybe a different color, it's still a

gorgeous 1935 Cadillac that belongs to another car guy. If he likes blackwall

tires because most 35's came with blackwalls, that his choice. I'd be proud to

park and talk cars with him. Maybe if there is judging involved, we should be

in different classes, but not kicked to the curb.

In 1987 I was refused entry as "non-judged" at a local AACA Show for having Great

American Race stickers on our 34 Ford, right after the Disneyland to Disney World,

a 4400 mile race for pre-1937 vehicles.

Reason given was "it was to commercial".

I hope we can learn to get along with and be civil to people who are not exactly

like us.

[joe_padavano]

I think it will help this discussion if someone will post the actual language of what change has been made and what is now allowed.

 

The link is in Post #8 above.

 

I really don't understand the whole "this is the end of the world" mentality.  The sad reality is that the automotive hobby is losing partiicipants as older members pass away.  Being devisive and critical of other people's car collection choices is both intolerant and unhelpful as far as growing the hobby.  I can appreciate a totally stock restored car as well as a well-build modified or street rod.  The important thing to me is that the owner cares about his/her vehicle and takes care of it.  Fractionating the hobby only serves to kill it off sooner.  There are too many forces trying to do that now.  We should not be helping them.

[60FlatTop]

Does anyone remember what earthshaking transition was happening in July, 1995? Decades go by so quickly.

Bernie

[danleblanc]

Paul.  Love your post - you definitely have the right spirit.

 

While radical departures from stock are not my think, I would absolutely check out that car you posted if it were to show up at a Grand National.  One has to appreciate the craftsmanship that goes into a build like this.