ANTIQUE CARS any interest in them??

[1937hd45]

There are three pages of chatter on 1990's and 2000's "collector" cars, just wonder if there are any Forum members with interest in the cars that the AACA founders had in 1935?

[Guest cben09]

YES,,, Ben

[R W Burgess]

Me, Bob!

My wife and I purchased that '29 Essex and we're spending the winter deciding what to do to improve its performance and make it a better touring car......because AACA Touring is where its at!

Wayne

[Guest Skyking]

37, although I don't own any at present, I like them better than any '90's & above.......

[1937hd45]

Wayne, You do know that the Essex chassis was the chassis of choise in the 1930's for building a dirt track race car.

[MCHinson]

Yes,

(even though cars like my Model A Ford were probably their daily drivers), I really hope to one day own a brass era car. But, I also have interest in some later cars as well. I don't remember that other discussion being about 1990's and 2000's, I remember the 1970's and 1980's being the main focus of that discussion. The great thing about AACA is that it is big enough to cover ALL eras of cars over 25 years old.

[Guest BJM]

Absolutely. I am a Peerless Club member (1901 to 1932), love the Art Deco period 1936 to 1940ish. I have studied virtually every period of this era by purchase of books and subscriptions to magazines.

My friend Jeff Brown just bought a 1927 Peerless project and I could not get him to consider anything newer then 1929 I suspect.

I jsu sent an email to a Nash member who is selling a 1929 Nash convertible 2 door.

Unfortunately I think the 1920's were a static period for some reason. There was not much development in the automobile from a styling point.

Then Harley Earl and the classic period came along and dragged the entire industry far ahead.

[1937hd45]

Yes, the 1920's were equil to the 1970's IMO, square boxes with wheels. There were only a few head turners. MERCER, Stutz, Kissel, Daniels, and HCS come to mind, but it was the Gloden Era of Board track racing, with MILLER and Duesenberg turning out great cars. This had a big effect on the Model T Ford speed equipment producers, and hot rods were born, but the term was never used until after WWII.

[West Peterson]

Some people have interest in all cars, and try to have enough variety in their garage so that they can participate in any era desired. That would be my dream.

[Guest cben09]

My interest is in the nuts and bolts part of the car,,,,not the body,,,,I recall Ed Roy making a statement w/his 50 hp Simplex,,,overtaking a sports car 15 years newer on the outside of track at Thompson Speedway,,,Anglo American tour,,The Simplex really handled superb,,,little unsprung weight on the chane drive axle,,haha,,, that 600cid engine really to purr,, Just think one of the fastest things on the road on 1928 may have been dads car,,modified w / front brakes,,and have chain drive,,,or put a White 4 speed overdrive tranny behind a Packard 4 cyl,, The 66 hp Pierce was a challange,,but was a bit hi off the ground,,,but its 825cid engine could speak with authority in any language,,,,,OR to have been alive [and w/ money enough] to buy a Vanderbilt /Stanley,,,the one w/ 200 real horses and weighing a metric ton [2204 ],,they CALLED it 30Hp,,The regular model K was virtually a off road machine w about a foot of ground clearence and spring travel to accomidate really wild conditions,,,and had a similar powerplant,,Google ,,,Vanderbilt cup 1908,,,and look around if you enjoy the early stuff,,and remember this is long before talkies,,,its silent footage / w music dubbed,,still really great,,,,The metric ton class,,,,Cheers,,Ben

[1940_Buick]

Some folks like what they had when they were younger. But I love the cars from the teens & twenties. I'm in my mid 40's and have had cars from 1911, 1912, 1913, 1923, & 1926. The cars from the 1960's and 1970's are interesting because I remember when they were daily transportation. But the SPECIAL stuff is the early stuff. Back when cars had a romance about them (just read a few Jordan ads). I used to have the newer cars because I couldn't afford the early cars.

My dad grew up in the 1920's and used to tell me stories. Like riding a Lincoln phaeton so fast the top was snapping in the wind. Or the wealthy family down the road with their big Franklin sedans. Or seeing a brand new Auburn in the showroom.

The cars from the teens are interesting because you can see different solutions to problems, like carburation, cooling, transmissions, etc. They were still trying to figure out "how to do it".

My 1911 EMF is a ton of fun. Nothing beats gliding down the road, riding high, nothing to block our view, hearing the engine chugging along, brass gleaming in the sun...

[1937hd45]

Ben, Welcome to the Forum. Ed Roy was one of the GREAT early restorers, always enjoied seeing him at the VSCCA meets. A friend bought a very early Porsche from him, and we got to see the six mini SIMPLEX working models he built. Still have the catalog he printed for them with permission from the Simplex Motor Car Company. Wonder who has the company ownership now. Bob

[oldcarfudd]

I'll stop and admire any collector car, but all I want in my garage is the earlies. From youngest to oldest, I'm the temporary custodian of a 1913 Model T Ford runabout, a 1912 Buick Model 35 touring (the entry-level Buick), a 1911 Stanley Model 63 toy tonneau (the entry-level 10-hp Stanley), a 1907 Cadillac Model K runabout (10-hp single-cylinder), and a 1906 Buick model F touring ( 22-hp 2-cylinder). Some are currently under re-restoration, but all get driven on Reliability tours, Snappers tours, HCCA tours, and whenever else I can dream up an excuse.

Gil Fitzhugh, Morristown, NJ

[Shop Rat]

Don't have a vehicle from that era but trust me if I found one of these that I could afford......I would. I love these cars. I would like one in red or white.

[Steve Braverman]

Bob,

Nobody likes that really old crap anymore. So if anyone has any of those slow and unreliable old clunkers, I'll do you a favor and take them off your hands, for a small fee or course.

[R Walling]

My interest lies in the work that I do on the cars and driving them, not any particular model.

I own a 31, a 32, a 38, a 55, a 65, a 71, a 76 and an 85.

The only one that I specifically went out to look for is the 55 Chrysler 4 dr. just like the one that I used to own in 1958 when I was 18, and the 71 that I bought new and have painted 5 times so far!.

[RonHeberle]

Yes, I want a 20's or early 30's Ford or Chevy. Right now I have to finish the house addition so I can build another garage. Currently I do not have any room but if someone has an early Ford or Chevy for sale I would definitely be interested in taking a look, especially one that needs some restoration.

[alsancle]

Hey Bob, I was kinda wondering the same thing. It's the nature of mathematics (and the 25 year rule) that as time goes on the AACA will be less and less about prewar cars. You will see guys like you and I taking refuge in marque specific clubs or other clubs that concentrate on stuff we are interested in. My love is 1930 to 1940, although I like cars from the 40s, 50 & 60s. I lived the cars of the 70 & 80s and despised them at the time and I'm not really feeling any more charitable now. To me the 30s was the crossroad where engineering & power intersected with workmanship, custom coaching building and style.

In the last week I've joined the Hupmobile, Marmon and Nash clubs. I don't own any of those but find them cool.

[Steve Braverman]

I really don't think that interest in Pre-War cars has waned at all. It's just that we are now outnumbered by post war cars simply because car were only built for about 40 years before the war, and it's been over 60 years since the war. Not to mention the fact that cars have been built in much higher numbers every year since.

I do see clubs like AACA dividing in the future, although I hope that doesn't happen. There's room for everyone.

[West Peterson]

Steve

I agree with you. I don't think interest in prewar cars has waned much, if any either. I think part of the problem is that many people that have them fail to bring them out. I hear excuses sometimes that sound like, "I'm not the center of attention anymore, so why bother."

[TexRiv_63]

The older I get, the older my collector cars get. While I was always interested in prewar cars I never owned one until 3 years ago, and now I have two. That said, Santa can still bring me that 2010 Cadillac CTS/V and I will not be unhappy!

[Guest BJM]

Some people have interest in all cars, and try to have enough variety in their garage so that they can participate in any era desired. That would be my dream.

Me too. A Buick friend of mine has a 29 Buick, a 41, a couple from the 50's 2 from the 60's a 70's. It's nice to compare the eras.

Some people say- the modern car is complicated to collect but the cars from the 20's scare me - wood bodies, engines with poured babbit not fit in bearings, complicated steering wheel controls

[Richard Lichtfel]

The interest in the early cars is still there. Just look at the prices. Most of the people that I know with the early cars are older and do not use the computer much. In our Peerless club we have 100 members and only a few use the computer. It is the younger generation that uses the computer and they are the ones collecting the later model cars and are the largest users of these forums. The mechanics of the older cars is also a problem for some people. Years ago it was the mechanicaly inclined people that bought these old cars and restored them. If they broke down they knew how to fix them. Today most of the owners of the early cars don't like to tour for fear of breaking down and not having any one that could repair their car. Can you imagine pulling into a mechanics shop today with a 1916 Peerless V-8? They wouldn't know where to plug the computer in. I think a good business to go into today would be a mechanical shop that specialized in the older cars and knew how to work on them. I have several friends that would love to own an older car if there would be a place to keep it running for them.

RHL

[poci1957]

Hello all, I was active in the "modern collector" thread that inspired this one, as was BJM (hello!) and I am a proponent of the 1970s cars we discussed. But in my case I have very broad interests. My (very) long term restoration project is a 1957 Star Chief and I am VERY interested in prewar cars even though I do not own one. I laughed with Steve Braverman's comments that "no one wants those old, unreliable cars, so he could help out" and take them off your hands.

Actually my favorite part of visiting Hershey is seeing prewar cars and seeing people my age (42) and younger involved, especially with brass era cars. Here in the midwest stock prewar cars are almost never seen and the street rod community has killed interest in restoration and preservation in general (don't get me started!). I do not wish to start another fight on it, but I am far happier with stock 1970s and 1980s cars than street rods of any era, and IMO that is the danger for prewar cars.

With that trend in mind, however, I have been puzzled that older cars not suitable for street rods have not depreciated. By my observation cars from the teens and older should be available cheap as they meet all the reasons people claim they cannot live with a stock old car (primitive mechanicals, hard to find parts, 2 wheel brakes, etc).

But they are NOT cheap. I was at an auction of ancient brass project cars (really!) a few years ago. I liked a circa 1907 Maxwell and after much thought I determined I would bid up to $5000. HA! It sold for $14,000, I do not know to whom. There were also about three Model Ts from 1910-12, they were also about $14,000 each. I am (can you tell?) still bitter and wondering who in the world bought these cars and where they went. Speculator? Probably. But if so the speculator surely thought someone would pay more. So there must still be interest somewhere, there certainly is in my garage. Todd

[Seldenguy]

BJM-- Bryan don't ever be afraid of an early car. "The only things we fear are the things we don't understand". Get to know your car and it's limitations and enjoy many happy miles of trouble free driving. It is immatieral what the year is, it's just a number!-- Bob

[tbirdman]

My old car purchase have gone in this order

64 T-Bird

55 Pickup

32 Packard

1912 Cadillac

Not many years left to go if I keep up the buying progression. I still have the Packard and the Cadillac so I guess my vote is for brass and early 30s cars. I love driving either one to a local show as I will be the only one there with a car like these. The Cadillac gets the most attention driving down the road.

How many youngsters understand what war we are talking about when referring to prewar cars.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

I am really only interested in the prewar stuff these days. It is just where my interest has gone after having some postwar collectibles. I don’t worry about trends because that is not really going to influence my tastes at all. I would say to Bob or BJM to just focus on what interests them. Also, barring the usual care advised in selecting an example of whatever that is, once committed do not fear the unknown (issues of an earlier or complexities of the later car) because if it interests you enough you will figure it out.

Yes, I wish more early stuff would come out to shows but don’t think it is a sign of little interest, as many of the owners themselves are a bit older. It can be a chore to get these cars out of storage much less fight today’s traffic with one when you are say, 83 years young. But I know there are plenty of 40-somethings like me and younger eager to acquire, restore and maintain these cars as they become available. Another positive along related lines, I think the interest in hot rodding prewar cars (mainly non-Fords) will wane long before the interest in them as antiques will. I think it is kind of a one or two generation thing, and not linked to the nostalgia associated with the era. So the prewar front still looks pretty good to me. I hope to see more of them back on the fields in the years to come. In the meantime, concours events, parades, marque specific club events and certain shows known to draw the older stuff are the best places to see these cars. Cruise nights or shows with a lot of 60s – 80s stuff maybe not so much. It is not so much about exclusion as it is about going where the stuff that interests you the most will most likely be.

On clubs I think it is tough to be inclusive and maintain a balance that keeps everyone happy, something that the AACA is doing well, I think. There are a lot of reasons this is good for the hobby. Not the least of which is that if over time if political climate worsens towards the antique auto community a united front can be invaluable. That said the marque specific organizations do fill a need for those who have more specialized interests, and I think, as Alsancle mentions, they will continue to gain membership as seems to be the trend. Like him, I also lived with the 70s and 80s cars and feel no nostalgia towards the cars of that era, but I think there are lots of interesting cars being made today that may generate collector interest in the future (Don, I think my next CTS may have to be a “V”.). But that is just another opinion…

Anyway, I would peg the Classic Era as my favorite, but getting more interested in brass.

Merry Christmas everyone!

[poci1957]

Yes, I wish more early stuff would come out to shows but don’t think it is a sign of little interest, as many of the owners themselves are a bit older. But I know there are plenty of 40-somethings like me and younger eager to acquire, restore and maintain these cars as they become available.

Another positive along related lines, I think the interest in hot rodding prewar cars (mainly non-Fords) will wane long before the interest in them as antiques will. I think it is kind of a one or two generation thing, and not linked to the nostalgia associated with the era. So the prewar front still looks pretty good to me.

In the meantime, concours events, parades, marque specific club events and certain shows known to draw the older stuff are the best places to see these cars. Cruise nights or shows with a lot of 60s – 80s stuff maybe not so much. It is not so much about exclusion as it is about going where the stuff that interests you the most will most likely be.

On clubs I think it is tough to be inclusive and maintain a balance that keeps everyone happy, something that the AACA is doing well, I think.

Well Steve, I certainly hope you are right about all that, especially the prewar street rod part. I think you are correct about the venue for the cars though, that is probably my problem here in Illinois, and I hope my new AACA region will help in that regard.

On that, I totally agree with your final comment about the mission of the AACA. Actually, I am very dissatisfied with my marque specific club but very happy being in AACA, which now has a marque chapter just waiting for me. Thanks to everybody in Hershey for all your efforts! Todd C

[1937hd45]

Next month my wifes 1985 Ford daily driver will be 25 years old. Following that lump in my 1912 to a show just seams WRONG, and will never happen. I can see PreWar single make clubs gaining membership in the future.

[West Peterson]

Next month my wifes 1985 Ford daily driver will be 25 years old. Following that lump in my 1912 to a show just seams WRONG, and will never happen. I can see PreWar single make clubs gaining membership in the future.

My brother has two cars about the age of your '12. One is a 1910 and the other is an '11. He has an absolute blast with them. What make is yours and what type of shows or tours do you take it on?

[Larry Schramm]

I am a brass era guy that has developed a brass era son. We currently have three vehicles from the teen era and as others noted a challenge to keep them running, safe, and still drive them on the road... but I would not have it any other way. Any one can have a car from the 50's -80's and drive it around but not everyone has the knowledge(or check book) to keep a brass era car going. I am fortunate because my son in the back of the truck in the picture has a stake in our vehicles as the picture below shows along with the wife who knows how to have fun too. I feel that it is only by mentoring our offspring that we can continue to keep the hobby alive and exciting. I got some of my mentoring from a neighbor that had a Model T.

[1937hd45]

Our '12 is a Model T Touring car built in April, the first "Fore-Door" offered by Ford. Only the passenger side front door opens, drivers is fixed in place. It was the first "old car" I ever was offered a ride in back in the early 1960's. That left a lasting impression on me and I was able to buy it in 1983. It was on the AACA 50th anniversary Tour, and a Gas & Brass tour along with a few local FARTS Tours. Its been in the back of the garage for years, maybe 2010 is the year it comes out. I know the '31 Roadster has to be running for a wedding in June. time to dump money in them I guess..

My brother has two cars about the age of your '12. One is a 1910 and the other is an '11. He has an absolute blast with them. What make is yours and what type of shows or tours do you take it on?

Edited December 19, 2009 by 1937hd45 (see edit history)

[1940_Buick]

A number of interesting points have been brought up.

To address the point of cars from the teens & twenties being "different" mechanically. They certainly are! But that's what's so cool about them. My first foray into the early stuff was frustrating. Problems would take me weeks to figure out. But since that time I've found a number of older guys who know their stuff and I'm always learning more from them. Lots of "Ah ha!" moments when a problem & solution are explained by someone who knows these cars.

The early cars have babbit bearings, but with low RPM engines and low compression, babbit bearings can last as long as insert bearings... and they can be adjusted as they wear. No front brakes... well that just gives you an even better reason to drive slowly and enjoy the scenery (hopefully you have roads you can enjoy like that).

Early cars didn't have factory shop manuals. What manuals were produced, weren't very specific. But what you learn about one car, is useful for most of the other cars from that era.

Interestingly enough these cars, with proper care and maintenance, are very reliable. I've fixed ignition switches in parking lots, repaired a linkage with a bobby pin, and a number of other simple fixes to keep going when on the road. These cars are simple and the solutions to their problems usually are too (once you understand them). Just this past summer my wife and I took off in our 1921 Ford Model T... with nothing more than the usual preventative maintenance and my little tool bag, and traveled from eastern Pennsylvania, to West Virginia, then Maryland, and finally back home. We had no destination or schedule. Our only worry was being able to find a hotel before dark, and the GPS was a great help with that.

These early cars had to endure terrible roads. They may look frail, but they are quite sturdy and capable.

Another point made was that fewer early cars are seen at shows. I have to admit that I'd rather be driving one of my cars than sitting behind it all afternoon at a show. My cars get attention if I so much as stop for gas. Another pet peeve of mine is "registration fees" at some shows. Why would I go to the trouble to bring my early car to a show, and then pay $10, when I can drive my modern car to the show, and walk in for free. What reason would I have for going to the trouble & expense of bringing one of my cars to that show? True, it's an opportunity for the public to enjoy these historic autos. But judging from the smiles and waves when I'm driving around, folks seem to enjoy seeing them "in action" too.

[oldcarfudd]

We brass guys like to say that wherever we park is a car show, and wherever we drive is a parade!

Gil Fitzhugh, Morristown, NJ

[tbirdman]

Another point made was that fewer early cars are seen at shows. I have to admit that I'd rather be driving one of my cars than sitting behind it all afternoon at a show. My cars get attention if I so much as stop for gas. Another pet peeve of mine is "registration fees" at some shows. Why would I go to the trouble to bring my early car to a show, and then pay $10, when I can drive my modern car to the show, and walk in for free. What reason would I have for going to the trouble & expense of bringing one of my cars to that show? True, it's an opportunity for the public to enjoy these historic autos. But judging from the smiles and waves when I'm driving around, folks seem to enjoy seeing them "in action" too.

The registration fee brings people and their cars to these shows. You don't have to stay all day. In fact I agree most of them are too long. I usually arrive late and stay just to see how the voting/judging turned out. If you don't want to pay then arrive late enough so you may not have to pay a fee. That has happened to me. A car show refused my money because I was there 30 minutes after their judges started to judge. However I had no problem parking in the show field (parking lot). So if you don't like to pay the fee, come late with your antique, you may not have to pay a fee and you will won't be there all day long. Now you mention you don't like the trouble of bring your car to a show, so I can't help you there.

It would be great if all shows were free and some are, but the $10 won't kill me. The $20 starts getting a little steep unless it's for a charity which a lot of these shows are for.

I usually pick shows to towns or places I haven't been before and then I enjoy the drive to and from.

[jeff_a]

Dear 1937hd45,

Nice thread you started. I find pre-WWI and pre-WWII cars quite interesting. I always think: "Why get a 70's car when you can get a 60's car...why get a 60's car when you can get a 50's car"...etc. Carried to the extreme, I guess, that philosophy would mean you'd have a garage full of London-to-Brighton Run cars.

I think I read on some old post of yours that you went to a car show at Knott's Berry Farm a long time ago. The first car show I went to was one my dad took me to at Knott's Berry Farm around 1960. I remember that there was an 1895 Duryea there an actor owned, and, even as a kid, I thought that was ancient. I have a 1930 Ford Coupe { I've had this since 1970 } and a 1928 Peerless Roadster Coupe { I've only had it three weeks }. What's funny is that these cars are now significantly older than the Duryea was back then!

I'm the one who started that thread about Barney Pollard's collection a year or so ago that even his grandson contributed to. I usually hang out down on the Peerless Forum instead of up here on the General Interest Forum.

[1937hd45]

Jeff, I was only at Knott's Berry Farm once around 1974-75. I remember the two Pope-Hartford powered railroad service cars parked out back. Hope they are fully restored by now. The bottle house is the only other thing I remember about the place. I'm long overdue for a trip to California. Thanks for your post, I very rarely scroll down to the other Forums.

[Guest cben09]

Jeff,,,If that Duryea was the Waterman--Gibson car,,,,,[ trivia]]] it was registerd as a regular car,,in Keene Nh,,in 1907 [reg list],,,Cheers,,Ben

[1937hd45]

Hello, Can you give us more info on that Duryea? I remember reading it was spotted on a flatbed truck in Pennsylvania by Mt Gibson in the late 1930's maybe mid 1940's. Any ownership history would be gereat to know. Many of then ran in early race events, wonder if this one could be proven to have been raced.

Jeff,,,If that Duryea was the Waterman--Gibson car,,,,,[ trivia]]] it was registerd as a regular car,,in Keene Nh,,in 1907 [reg list],,,Cheers,,Ben

[Guest cben09]

I think there were 13 of this model built,,,and one ov em ran both Chicago Times Herald,,,and later,,1896 ran the GRAND parade celebrating the end of the red flag act,,,,now celebrated as London Brighton,,Frank Perley ,,Rowley ,Massachusetts,, [younger helper on Deryea crew] said there was trouble w/ the differential gear at Chicago,,so they ran solid at London,,,,but were plagued w,the glass jar batterys clanking,,tinking,,pop,,pop,,packin rags between to keep the glass from breaking,,pushin up'n down cobblestone streets,,,,LOOONG before daye break,,Make an' break ign on this remember,,and not so good a design ,,if it was as the patent drawings are,,!!!! and oiling to the big end was worse,,but it ran,,,Belt drive and jockey pulleys where they sholdnt be,,,hahahh,, Harvey Firestone volunteered to make tyres For the 1946 Jubelee at Detroit,,The originals were EARLY tyres by Hartford Rubber,,in Ct,,,Air tyres were NEW about this time,,[93],,Some where in the club mag is a photo of early pioneers at the head table at Detroit,,,//Late thot,,daybreak in London,,Nov is arond 9am,IF,,,IF,,, the truck was a 32 International,,,that would have been,,,,,perhaps Joe Knowles,,,[1910 Stevens -Duryea,,]] also DROVE to Detroit,,from Boston [actually So Lincoln] for the Jubelee,,Cheers,,,Ben