ANTIQUE CARS any interest in them??

[1937hd45]

Thank you Ben. Somewere in my stuff I have a photo of the First Race in the USA held on a race track in Narragansett Part, Providence, Rhode Island with 4 or 5 early Duryeas. The October 1945 issue of Old Timers News has a lot of info on the Chicago Times-Herald race.

[Guest cben09]

Did ya know that after Sylvester Roper built his steam bike in Darchestah [Dorchester, Ma] in 95,,Stanley built a pacer bike,,with TWO ,,14" boilers,,Hahahh,, S,Roper raced the steam wagon against horses too,,,One of his late buggys is in Ford Museum,,,came out of Lowell ma,around 1930,,,,Cheers Ben

[1937hd45]

Simon Ingersoll built a steamer in Stamford, Ct. in the 1880's. It was driven down Main Street and around the horse track on the Fair Grounds here in Ridgefield. Investors told him to forget the car and invent something useful, and he invented the steam powered rock drill. Ingersoll-Rand is still in business...........................another Rest of the Story.

[Guest cben09]

The Stanley twins became real interested in power wagons,,after riding in Ed Fields steam wagon in Lewiston Maine in 1887,,but they felt it must function automatically,,and worked to that end,,,,At this time in life they were raising RACE horses in mechanics Falls Maine,,west of Lewiston,,,oh yes ,,and teaching school,,The Ed,Field steamer is written up in the Lewiston journal,,,2 feature articles 1887,,,Richard Fraser found this and it is in his""Maine Built Autos"" second edition just out a few weeks ago,,its thick,,,Richard has found stuff all the way back to 1834 for Maine,,,,and I found a 4 wheel drive steam wagon patented in Danvers Mass,,1795,,This is not so easy to find,,,as they had not thot to number the patents yet,,,I'll think of the name ,,,People now think Ford invented the car,,,when in fact it took 100 years for the idea to catch on,,There was an internal combustion engine / and buggy,,,NOT otto cycle,, tested,,ran,,crashed,,around 1830,,,had a carburettor,,!!!,,Duryea in a paper he gave mentions that the Germans should not get credit as Morley had done it in 1826,,so he knew of this,,,,where did HE find the reference,,,We havent scratched the surface yet,,,Cheers,,Ben

[jeff_a]

1937hd45 and cben09,

The 1895 Duryea belonged to Ephram Zimbalist, Jr., according to what I was told. I think the car show may have been put on by him or consisted largely of his cars. I remember it was some kind of special event and everyone had to wait in line to see the cars -- which were all indoors. My father made a big point of telling me that one of the guys in line in front of us actually was Mr. Zimbalist, who was waiting in line just like everyone else, even though it was his collection. I guess he could blend in and hear what everyone else was saying about his cars. I don't have anything to back this story up....in fact, I've never heard anywhere else that the actor had antique cars. I think he was in a TV show about that time called 77 Sunset Strip.

BJM,

Thanks for putting-in a good word about me. The Peerless was titled as a 1929, but is technically one of about 3,500 Model 6-80's built between August, 1927 and August, 1928 that are from the 1928 model year. What you said about me not considering cars newer than 1929 is true to some degree, but I'm interested in cars like 1935 Packard 120's, too.

Edited December 20, 2009 by jeff_a (see edit history)

[Steve Braverman]

Our family fleet has a gap. The newest old car is 1933, and oldest new car is 2001. I like cars of the post-war era, but can't justify the prices. Prices of 20s and 30s cars are way down (unless it's a Ford or Chevy). This year we picked up a fully restored 1925 Franklin touring for $20k. It's not perfect, but it looks great and runs as well as it looks. If it was a 50s or 60s convertible in the same condition, the price would have been double.

I am 35 years old, and the next car I want to ad to my collection will be brass. (Dad has a 1910 Sears, but I'd like at least four cylinders and 30mph. Again, a Model T would be neat, but a Franklin Model G would probably be the same price and four times the car.)

I am trying to drag some of my car friends that are my age into the pre-war ownership group, but it's hard. Even for me, with two small children and a full-time job, it's hard to find much time for cars. As I write this, I am staring out the window through two feet of snow at my Plymouth through the barn windows. I hope to get something accomplished with it over the Christmas Break (being a teacher has its privileges).

Edited December 20, 2009 by Steve Braverman (see edit history)

[Guest cben09]

Hi Dave, et All,,,The man/shop in Lewiston was Edwin F,Field,,,Died [ obit ] 3 July 1909,,,no date for birth,,,Pages 7--17 of Frasers book,, ""Maine Built Autos 1834--1934"" recent 2nd edition,, Really lots of early info ,,500pages,,,ALL have the reference of where the info is found,,so any further reserch can go foreward,,, A glowing report in the first tense of hosting the reporter from th Lewiston Journal,,,on the ""expedition""" ,,,Yes it was a wood fire,,,em/pm me and i'll give you contact info,,More on this later,,,,Cheers,,Ben

[Steve Braverman]

Hi Dave, et All,,,The man/shop in Lewiston was Edwin F,Field,,,Died [ obit ] 3 July 1909,,,no date for birth,,,Pages 7--17 of Frasers book,, ""Maine Built Autos 1834--1934"" recent 2nd edition,, Really lots of early info ,,500pages,,,ALL have the reference of where the info is found,,so any further reserch can go foreward,,, A glowing report in the first tense of hosting the reporter from th Lewiston Journal,,,on the ""expedition""" ,,,Yes it was a wood fire,,,em/pm me and i'll give you contact info,,More on this later,,,,Cheers,,Ben

Huh?

[MCHinson]

I think that is the answer to this question...

Do you have any more information on Ed Field or Fields?

[Guest cben09]

The piece in Frasers book on Field is 10 pages on this,,,E/M me and i'll put you in contact if more info needed,,,,,,,Re Duryea,,I suspect the other one was a Reading Pa,,Duryea,,,a later hi wheeler,,,,This stuff I mention is LOOONG before TV,,so that actor is not related I think,,,Cheers,,,Ben

[boblichty]

There are lots of us who love the old cars. I can never get enough of being around them. Yet, there are lots of old AACA photos from the thirties and forties and early fifiies where cars 10- 20 years old were in attendance at some of the events like the Darby Horse Grounds. I remember one such photo of a couple Duesenbergs sitting at one of the shows in the 1940's. The Duesy's could not have been 10-15 years old at the time. Our wonderful hobby keeps moving along, as younger people get involved so do the cars. I love them all, and let's pray the hobby keeps expanding, while NOT loosing interest in the really old cars too.

[Guest DeSoto Frank]

From the peanut gallery...

I'm presently forty-something; been nuts about cars since I could walk.

If I can remember it being new, I will never be able to think of it as an "antique".

That said, things like GTOs, Malibus, Mustangs, Roadrunners, etc will always just be "cars" (or "used cars" ) to me.

When I was a little kid (five years old?) my parents took me to an antique car museum near York or Lancaster , PA, which was filled with horeseless carriages and brass cars. I LOVED it !

A few years later we stopped at Zimmerman's "Automobile-a-arama" in Harrisburg, on our way to Hershey Park. I wanted to stay at the car museum... the heck with Hershey Park !

My first love are Brass and Nickel cars... followed by Pre-Depression, then Pre-WWII. I take interest in cars made up to about 1960-62.

Am still waiting for the price of "unwanted" brass cars to fall to a level I can afford... right now, they're still "a rich man's play-thing"...

:cool:

[Restorer32]

Gene Zimmerman's Automobile-a- Rama was one of my first introductions to antique cars as well, back in the late '60's. You may be remembering Mr. Hershey's museum along Route 22 North of Lancaster. A two story barn with very unusual cars, all of which were for sale at a price.

[Guest cben09]

Hi Frank,,,,I too saw those cars you saw,,,,but it was at the Princeton Massachusetts museum owned by Albert B, Garganigo and his brother Sully,, Sept 1948,,,,Sulleys cars got sold separatly,,,He shew me a photo of the 07 Great Arrow,,,in the parade,,,celebrating the end of the war,,,, I said,,46 or 47,,,,OH NO I mean the Great war,,,, 1919,,,4th of july,,,,The car was in the museum with its all white smooth tyres,, original tyres,, Memories,, of Red Fox Farm,,, ,,Ben

[oldcarfudd]

DeSoto Frank, I have no idea what constitutes a reasonable price for you, and I'm not asking. I'll point out that decent, driveable 1914 and 1915 Fords come up for sale now and then, and you'd get change from $20,000 even with an open trailer. 2-cylinder Maxwells bring less than $25,000 - sometimes quite a bit less. These aren't AACA show cars and they don't offer blinding speed, but they're quite presentable and lots of fun to drive. (And even the mega-buck cars that are capable of blinding speed shouldn't be driven that way, 'cause they don't stop worth a hoot.) They're great for Reliability tours, Snappers and HCCA tours - to say nothing of giving zillions of rides to kids of all ages. If you decided, after owning one, that a brass car really wasn't your cup of tea, you could get all or most of your money back. You might look at the classifieds on the MTFCA and HCCA web sites.

Gil Fitzhugh, Morristown, NJ

[1937hd45]

I have two catalogs/brochures from the Garganigo collection one with a 1933 copyright the other with 1937, both use the same photos. I think some of the cars were sold to other collectors before the Zimmerman buyout. I really enjoy collecting info on collections that were started Pre WWII, just think of what they had their pick of! :eek:

Hi Frank,,,,I too saw those cars you saw,,,,but it was at the Princeton Massachusetts museum owned by Albert B, Garganigo and his brother Sully,, Sept 1948,,,,Sulleys cars got sold separatly,,,He shew me a photo of the 07 Great Arrow,,,in the parade,,,celebrating the end of the war,,,, I said,,46 or 47,,,,OH NO I mean the Great war,,,, 1919,,,4th of july,,,,The car was in the museum with its all white smooth tyres,, original tyres,, Memories,, of Red Fox Farm,,, ,,Ben

[Guest cben09]

Hi,,,The core of Garganigo's collection was before ww-I,,,,The cars listed in invetory w/ a x or check mark are brother Sulleys cars,,,,Sulley's cars were sold separately,,,,This info is in conversation over pie and coffee on one of my visits to Sulley,,at his home in Shrewsbury,,,perhaps 10 mi south of Princeton,, The museum buildings are still there,, ,,Cheers,,Ben

[1937hd45]

I wonder if anyone with a lot of cataloging ability has a record of were all the cars are that were once in the Great Collections before they were scattered to the winds? Same thing about cars that were touring or shown at meets before 1960. They exist, but rarely show up at meets today.

[Guest DeSoto Frank]

DeSoto Frank, I have no idea what constitutes a reasonable price for you, and I'm not asking. I'll point out that decent, driveable 1914 and 1915 Fords come up for sale now and then, and you'd get change from $20,000 even with an open trailer. 2-cylinder Maxwells bring less than $25,000 - sometimes quite a bit less. These aren't AACA show cars and they don't offer blinding speed, but they're quite presentable and lots of fun to drive. (And even the mega-buck cars that are capable of blinding speed shouldn't be driven that way, 'cause they don't stop worth a hoot.) They're great for Reliability tours, Snappers and HCCA tours - to say nothing of giving zillions of rides to kids of all ages. If you decided, after owning one, that a brass car really wasn't your cup of tea, you could get all or most of your money back. You might look at the classifieds on the MTFCA and HCCA web sites.

Gil Fitzhugh, Morristown, NJ

Gil,

I don't want to cry poverty, but anything in five figures is beyond my means...

That said, I don't want a perfect cream-puff that's "too nice to drive"... a 1940's-'60's resto or unrestored survivor ( fuctional ) is what I would want.

A model T is probably the most affordable ( no pun intended! ) option for brass... I'm not silly enough to think that I'd get Pierce or Locomobile for less than $20k.

I also think that the recent trend of muscle-cars and "clones" going for six or seven figures is absolutely ridiculous... by comparison, Brass and Nickel are a bargain.

It just seems to me that as far as pre-1930 cars go, while "nobody wants them", nobody's exactly giving them away either...

Happy Holidays !

:cool: