supercargirl Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 (edited) This is a very special car. 1925 Packard 243 Series 8 Cylinder 7 Passenger Touring In the same family until the current owner bought it. One family ownership for 89 years. Two owner car. The car was used in a movie about Franklin Delano Roosevelt. Here are some notes from the owner: Here is a video of my 1925 243 Series 7 passenger Touring Packard Drove the car home after a mechanic went through when I first got it. It is mechanically sound. Cameo at the movie Sun Rise at Campobello. I also have the letter from the production company when it contacted the owner to use the car in the movie The car is featured in the Book "Packard the Glory" It tells some of the history of the car. I also have other documentation on the car that traces the provenance of the vehicle. It was ordered new by the original owner with some additional features. The floor heater is rare on these Packards and it was a special order. It still has most of the original interior except the front seat and the yellow painted dash. The gentleman that performed the work for me said that in fifty years of working with these cars he never had seen one as original that still runs. Packard Blue is the original color of the car. It was painted Red and a new top installed for the movie Sunrise at Campobello. The car was repainted to its original color later in the '70's and the paint it is holding up very well. The top was removed the top and had the bows restored by a wood carver. Not that the wood was terribly bad, but it needed some care. The metal frame sandblasted and repainted. Comes with all new convertible top material and the old convertible top pattern. The engine is clean and neat, will post photos later. Owner spent $4,000 in sorting out the car when he first got it. A similar 1924 version went for $85,000 about 4 years ago in similar condition as this car with a new top. Car will have a new top installed and dash repainted before it goes to its new owner. Asking $110,000.00 will listen to reasonable offers. Located in Texas. E-mail for more information and pictures. Offers are being accepted. Edited April 1, 2018 by supercargirl added info (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 Well, posting a price would help. For reference, here's a virtually identical car, possibly with slightly less restoration, that just sold for a tad over $50k. https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1926-packard-model-243-7-passenger-touring/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 Location would also help. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supercargirl Posted March 17, 2018 Author Share Posted March 17, 2018 48 minutes ago, trimacar said: Well, posting a price would help. For reference, here's a virtually identical car, possibly with slightly less restoration, that just sold for a tad over $50k. https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1926-packard-model-243-7-passenger-touring/ I would say the car on BAT was undersold. This car has some impressive documentation to support its ownership history and it is more original than the example on BAT. One family ownership for over 75 years. Everything is so over restored these days. Truly original cars with known history are rare indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 The car you have for sale is very nice, and anyone would be proud to own it. One family ownership is a nice plus. That said, the dash painted yellow, the front seat reupholstered, the wheels repainted, the engine cleaned up and painted, and what appears to be a body repaint, does not make it an untouched, original, car. I've been wrong before, but I've also seen tops put on 60 years ago (mid 1950's) that appear original but aren't, hard to tell from pictures on that one, but tops are fragile. I'm not knocking the car, it's great, but if one is going to sell such a vehicle, then the price needs to be realistic, and we're just guessing right now what the price might be.......the market shows it's not a $100K car, so assume you're saying that it's north of the $50K comparable somewhere. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 (edited) After watching the video of the car in the movie, I like the more muted current paint scheme of blue body and black fenders more than the red/maroon body that was shown in the movie...and the white wheels in the movie were a little much....sure could hold a lot of people! Edited March 17, 2018 by trimacar (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billety Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 What happened to the photo of the gross yellow dash? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supercargirl Posted March 18, 2018 Author Share Posted March 18, 2018 5 minutes ago, Billety said: What happened to the photo of the gross yellow dash? If you are an interested buyer and not just an insult slinger e-mail for photos. But here is the gross yellow dash just for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billety Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 Sorry not an interested buyer in that price range. One can only speculate why the photo was removed. However I do like yellow on cars having owned the attached car since new. MY opinion is that yellow probably is not appropriate on a highly priced mid 20's "full classic". A quick squirt of paint would fix it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supercargirl Posted March 19, 2018 Author Share Posted March 19, 2018 10 minutes ago, Billety said: Sorry not an interested buyer in that price range. One can only speculate why the photo was removed. However I do like yellow on cars having owned the attached car since new. MY opinion is that yellow probably is not appropriate on a highly priced mid 20's "full classic". A quick squirt of paint would fix it though. Dash picture was probably deleted accidentally when I posted the engine picture. Many pictures are available as well as detailed history on the car to anyone that is interested. This posted in the copy on the car: Car will have a new top installed and dash repainted before it goes to its new owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 Perhaps there is something I'm just not seeing here? While this is a beautiful car with terrific history, I'm seeing an asking price which is just about double the current market value, but the car is in need of an entire interior and a thoroughly good detailing all around. I see a new top is included to replace the worn out one currently in place but is the install to be done by the purchaser as well? Also a lot of green corrosion around the radiator shell. How does the rest of the bright metal work show? Not meaning to disrespect your car, more curious at how you arrived at this record setting asking price? Regards, Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supercargirl Posted March 20, 2018 Author Share Posted March 20, 2018 Greg, Thank you for your comments and I will address them shortly. In the meantime, would you be so kind as to supply at least four comparable sales of 1925 243 seven passenger touring cars sold in the last two years? Not apple to orange comps. But actual comps that adhere to the description of this particular car. One family ownership for over 75 years. Two owners . Inclusion in a movie. Highly original. Documentation since day one. That would be most helpful in determining if the asking price is indeed out of line. Thanks so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 Thank you for the quick reply. I agree, it is difficult to come up with an exact figure for such a unique automobile. A quick search turned up these two model 243's. One looks like reasonable comp condition-wise (excluding any history) which sold 3/13/17 for $50,500. While the other is a superb nut and bolt restoration that sold 3/10/16 for $93,500. I believe both cars sold in an auction style atmosphere so more than one bidder was involved in each sale. I recognize that that is a considerable spread in numbers but probably reflects true values of driveable examples of the marque. Do you suppose your number could be somewhere between the two? Regards, Greg https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/23555/lot/225/ https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1926-packard-model-243-7-passenger-touring/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 Here's a 1924 Model 143, in very nice condition ready to go, for $84,000 or best offer. Based on the superb restored car posted above, that's still probably a little high. The 143 was the first year of the Packard straight eight, and is virtually identical to the 243 and 343 to follow.... http://car-us.com/car/packard-7passengertouring/7331 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozstatman Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 Here's one currently For Sale downunder for AUD$110K, about USD$85K at current rates. http://www.sydneycityprestige.com.au/vehicle/packard-single-eight-25337 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supercargirl Posted March 20, 2018 Author Share Posted March 20, 2018 All beautiful gentlemen. Thank you. Now it is time to appreciate the value in unrestored cars. This car should never be restored. Ever. It should be brought back delicately to the original but never restored. At the Simeone Automotive Museum in Philadelphia Dr. Simeone actually had the paint removed from a Stutz Black Hawk Speedster. It was painted red and that coat of paint was removed to reveal the original coat underneath. How many opportunities do we have left in the car collecting world to show our kids and grand kids the real deal. Let's preserve what we have left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooklyn Fuzzy Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 On 3/17/2018 at 3:54 PM, supercargirl said: I would say the car on BAT was undersold. This car has some impressive documentation to support its ownership history and it is more original than the example on BAT. One family ownership for over 75 years. Everything is so over restored these days. Truly original cars with known history are rare indeed. You really need to put a LOT more facts in these posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooklyn Fuzzy Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 15 hours ago, supercargirl said: Greg, Thank you for your comments and I will address them shortly. In the meantime, would you be so kind as to supply at least four comparable sales of 1925 243 seven passenger touring cars sold in the last two years? Not apple to orange comps. But actual comps that adhere to the description of this particular car. One family ownership for over 75 years. Two owners . Inclusion in a movie. Highly original. Documentation since day one. That would be most helpful in determining if the asking price is indeed out of line. Thanks so much. It would be a lot easier to read if you didn't have clipped sentences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 Holy crap, guys, you're getting a little carried away. Someone even made a brand new account just to shiat all over this car and/or the seller. Not cool. Not cool at all. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supercargirl Posted March 20, 2018 Author Share Posted March 20, 2018 Thank you. Brooklyn Fuzzy. Your comments are greatly appreciated. Interested parties. Please e-mail. For additional information. Detailed ownership history. And pictures available. Now let's all just allow this car the exposure it deserves on one of my favorite forums. Have a great day. Viva unrestored! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
63RedBrier Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 If you want to find out its REAL value, put it on eBay, advertise the eBay listing everywhere you can, and let the market set the value... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old car fan Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 I will chime in.She is a dealer,great posts,the car will sell.I just think, If something is incorrect on the car,by all means, point it out.Would I pay that for the car,no,could a deal be made,maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supercargirl Posted March 20, 2018 Author Share Posted March 20, 2018 Thanks Old Car Fan. Not a dealer but an Exceptional Car Broker (exceptional cars and exceptional clients) that loves cars as much as all of you. I don't tell my client's what to ask. I advise them but in the end it is their decision. I am fully behind this car though. I think that unrestored cars will be seeing a surge in value. They will be harder and harder to find. For goodness sakes - this car is 93 years old and it still runs and drives! That is just mind boggling. Just yesterday I had to sell my beloved 1980 300CD Mercedes Benz because she would not do what this car does with ease - run and drive. One thing though that should be pointed out. The new owner can't be too tall. Maybe not taller than 5'8". A lot of these prewar cars are a pretty tight fit for taller drivers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Povertycove Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 There’s nothing very remarkable about a 93 year old car that runs and drives. Those of us in the HCCA tour thousands of miles in our pre-1916 car every year, and many of these cars are entirely original. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 (edited) You may want to revise your listing and say "8 Cyl" in title: The 8 cyl cars I think have less Horsepower than the 6 cyl cars, but the 8 cylinder cars are 100 times more rare and more desirable. Sidenote: This is an exceptionally well cared for car from new - easy to spot given original interior and top Yep, the Dashboard and the Throttle/Horn Trim Ring on the steering column were originally woodgrained metal (aluminum "caps" - trim round upper part of cowl, doors, tub - both front and rear are generally grained as well). Edited March 21, 2018 by John_Mereness (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 By the way: I am 6'2" and my dad is 6'4" and we both have spent plenty of time behind the wheel of both a 1925 8 cyl touring and also a 1927 8 cyl touring - no complaints other than your shoes scuffing up the door panels as space between seat and door when open is pretty narrow - behind the steering wheel though cars are just fine for tall people. Trick generally is getting behind the steering wheel and getting out - but that is pretty normal with most any pre-WWII era car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidMc Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 I believe the reason the dash has been painted yellow is because it is the base coat color for wood graining using the printers ink method. It would not be difficult to finish the job and greatly improve the look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supercargirl Posted March 21, 2018 Author Share Posted March 21, 2018 Thanks everyone for your great input. I am going to update the posting later today based on all of the helpful suggestions. I was forced to put a price on the car before we were ready but I think now at least I am getting a clearer picture of what the car really is . Still a great car. Just not a truly original example. Thanks to the wonderful people that made this a teaching moment for me. One guy in particular MH! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlander160 Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 You go girl, er rather, supercargirl. The car will sell itself and doesn't need anyone's input. It's a tough time because stocks are rockin it hardcore rt now. "Middle ground" cars like this sit and wait for folks to make their money before they dip their toes into old cars again. My opinion? No, and anyone can do some historical checks on their own to prove it all out. It's a great car and will likely find someone who will love it proper. The price is secondary, the market will speak, buyer and seller will eventually be happy. Best of luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supercargirl Posted April 1, 2018 Author Share Posted April 1, 2018 Thanks Higlander 160. And John Mereness I just saw your note about the 8 cylinder cars being rare. I will update that. I meant to get back on the forum and update this posting and add to the research I have been doing on the Graham Paige in that section of the forum. I appreciate Highlander 160's comment that someone can do historical checks on their own - researching a car before purchasing it is imperative. 75% of my job as a broker is researching the car to confirm it is what the owner is claiming it to be. Thank goodness I volunteer at the Simeone Research Center. Best part is Dr. Simeone is a walking encyclopedia on prewar cars. One of my clients called him the Steve Hawking of prewar race cars. So i have access to an incredible amount of material that makes my job much easier. That said there is a lot of information on the car readily available from the owner. I will send it on to anyone that has an interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 Actually, I don't see a whole lot of "original" left on this car. "Unrestored" and "original" are not the same thing. Still a nice car and I hope you get your price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbug56 Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 On 3/17/2018 at 4:11 PM, trimacar said: The car you have for sale is very nice, and anyone would be proud to own it. One family ownership is a nice plus. That said, the dash painted yellow, the front seat reupholstered, the wheels repainted, the engine cleaned up and painted, and what appears to be a body repaint, does not make it an untouched, original, car. I've been wrong before, but I've also seen tops put on 60 years ago (mid 1950's) that appear original but aren't, hard to tell from pictures on that one, but tops are fragile. I'm not knocking the car, it's great, but if one is going to sell such a vehicle, then the price needs to be realistic, and we're just guessing right now what the price might be.......the market shows it's not a $100K car, so assume you're saying that it's north of the $50K comparable somewhere. Why would someone paint a natural wood dashboard at all, let alone with yellow paint? Same with the steering wheel center rim. And is there a viable way to restore that? A few questions (just for my personal understanding). 1. What is the correct type of windshield for a Packard 243 (outside of unusual cars) - single piece or double piece? I've been told that only very late ones (like mine, built May 1926) can be single piece, Series 3 windshield, but that most were double piece (one above the other). 2. Shape of glass in back on the convertible top of a Touring (assuming bodied by Packard)? 3. Would a 243 have had an external drivers side horn? IOTW, was it an available option, or did someone add it later? It certainly isn't necessary. It's nice to have a car which has been in only one or two families. Ours was bought in June 1926 to replace a 1916 Packard Touring Car, and my father bought it in 1966. As to ours, I would never call it original since the top and radiator were replaced, and it was repainted once. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunnyjay Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 @pbug56 I bought this car about 6 months ago (not from this dealer) for MUCH less than the $100k she was asking. Having spent 6 months going through the car, I can tell you it needs a lot of work (they usually do). You're right, there is no way to "restore" the dash. The yellow paint is some kind of epoxy that had to be ground away with an angle grinder. Thankfully, I just got the freshly repaired and wood grained dash back again and it looks amazing! No more yellow! 1. Regarding the windshield, this car was ordered with the (newer) single pane glass windshield as opposed to the double pane, it's a fairly rare option. They become more common in later series. 2. The rear window is a rectangle with rounded corners. Thankfully it came with the yet-to-be installed top. 3. I don't know the story of the outside horn. Likely a aftermarket accessory added years later (it was on the car in the 1960s). Lots of projects to get this car back on the road for it's 100th birthday. I restored the linoleum floor, am cleaning out and sealing the gas tank, replacing the entire fuel line, redoing ALL the wiring, and restoring the vacuum tank system. None of this is a $100k car (not that I mind a project!) but I'm VERY glad I didn't pay more! 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne sheldon Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 Nice to see a wonderful update! Thank you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bloom Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 Share updates and photos if you can. I remember seeing this listed in various ways and through different venues......In my mind some Alfa guy had it listed about a year ago. I wondered where it went. Great Car. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rydersclassics Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 Whatever you gave for this car it's great to see it's once again in the hands of a caretaker who is giving it love. It will draw a crowd, hoping gives you miles of enjoyment! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunnyjay Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 1 hour ago, John Bloom said: Share updates and photos if you can. I remember seeing this listed in various ways and through different venues......In my mind some Alfa guy had it listed about a year ago. I wondered where it went. Great Car. Sure thing! I'll keep you guys posted. Yes, I bought it from the Alfa guy. He had been trying to sell it for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 Glad it finally found a good home! You mention “top not installed”, I’m curious, did someone sew a top using the old one as a pattern, or do you just have material for the top? I’ve quit doing interiors, but I’d do a top or two, early cars only. Let me know if you need advice or help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunnyjay Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 2 minutes ago, trimacar said: Glad it finally found a good home! You mention “top not installed”, I’m curious, did someone sew a top using the old one as a pattern, or do you just have material for the top? I’ve quit doing interiors, but I’d do a top or two, early cars only. Let me know if you need advice or help! Thanks! The car came with several large boxes of top material (and boot) that have been sewn, but not finished or installed. I haven't really dug into that yet as I'm trying to get the car running first, but I'm assuming it was made using the old one as a pattern. I know nothing about upholstery or tops so I'd welcome any advice or help I can get when the time comes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 Glad to help any way I can. I’ll send you my contact info. I’m in Winchester Va. so not too far away! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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