Early Radios

[AHa]

Could I get the forum member who likes old radios to contact me by private message?

[Larry Schramm]

PM Sent

 

[Marty Roth]

PM Sent

[30DodgePanel]

BTW, what is the oldest or first car radio that was ever used in cars? Please post any facts and not theory or speculation.

 

The web claims  Motorola 5T71 was the first radio produced and used in 1930 Ford, but I could find no factual proof.

I've read in other locations on the web that radios were offered in some 1927 Chevy's but again couldn't find proof.

I have confidential bulletins that shows 1930 DC8 Dodge Brothers had a Transitone as an option. The DC8 began production in mid Dec of 1929. 

The bulletins are dated Jan 27th 1930 stating the immediate release of the Transitone produced by the American Radio Corportion of NY.

 

Does anyone have literature that shows anything earlier than Jan 27th 1930 for any vehicle?

 

Edited February 22 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[dibarlaw]

PM sent. Some of my Non-Buick treasures.

[30DodgePanel]

13 minutes ago, jdome said:

Stutz had radios available in 29 maybe a year or 2 before that.

Thanks for the suggestion, but as I mentioned I'm hoping to see some literary proof  to substantiate any other models

 

Does anyone have Stutz or any other makers that show Transitone or any other radios with dates? 

 

Edited February 22 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[Bloo]

8 hours ago, 30DodgePanel said:

The bulletins are dated Jan 27th 1930 stating the immediate release of the Transitone produced by the American Radio Corportion of NY.

The linked images have this as "Automoblie Radio Corporation". I don't see NY, though I am probably missing something. The manufacturer needs close scrutiny here, as "Transitone" radios were made by Simplex of Sandusky, Ohio by the mid 1930s, and I suspect earlier, probably from the beginning. Could Automobile Radio Corporation have been Simplex? Simplex was absorbed by Philco (of Philadelphia, PA) in the late 1930s. Philco took over Simplex's Sandusky factory, and continued using the Transitone name on some models. These were not typically car radios. Any attribution of the Transitone name to Philco you find prior to the late 1930s is almost certainly wrong. EDIT: maybe not.....

 

I assume you've seen this:

 

https://www.radiomuseum.org/forum/first_car_radios_history_and_development_of_early_car_radios.html

 

Sorry, I don't have any primary sources to link.

 

Edited February 22 by Bloo (see edit history)

[30DodgePanel]

4 hours ago, Bloo said:

The linked images have this as "Automoblie Radio Corporation". I don't see NY, though I am probably missing something. The manufacturer needs close scrutiny here, as "Transitone" radios were made by Simplex of Sandusky, Ohio by the mid 1930s, and I suspect earlier, probably from the beginning. Could Automobile Radio Corporation have been Simplex? Simplex was absorbed by Philco (of Philadelphia, PA) in the late 1930s. Philco took over Simplex's Sandusky factory, and continued using the Transitone name on some models. These were not typically car radios. Any attribution of the Transitone name to Philco you find prior to the late 1930s is almost certainly wrong.

 

I assume you've seen this:

 

https://www.radiomuseum.org/forum/first_car_radios_history_and_development_of_early_car_radios.html

 

Sorry, I don't have any primary sources to link.

 

 

Sorry about that, here is part of the last page of the ARC brochure (cover in my previous post). It also mentions NY in another confidential bulletin I have.

 

 

Note the phrase World Wide Wireless (WWW) was being used in the 1920s. This does need scrutinized as I'm not quite sure how it all ties in yet and I'm not sure if it has answers any questions for car radios. Just thought the WWW was interesting.

The Book of Radio--Radio Central chapter (1922) (earlyradiohistory.us)

 

 

Here's the first car radio patent I could find (there may be others earlier). Filed Feb 9th 1928 by American Radio Corp (ARC)

Portable radio apparatus - TRANSITONE AUTOMOBILE RADIO CO (freepatentsonline.com)

Portable radio apparatus (freepatentsonline.com)

 

More patents. Scroll to the bottom #172 is the oldest as it's in backwards chronological order from most recent to earliest

FPO IP Research & Communities (freepatentsonline.com)

 

Edited February 22 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[jdome]

There has been some discussion years ago on this site about the 29 stutz radio.  Do a search for "1929 Stutz car radio" and it will bring up some past threads. It might get you so.e contacts of previous researchers. One is an owner of a 29 stutz with an original radio.

[8E45E]

As per Post #4 here----->  First car radio was installed in a Studebaker - Studebaker Drivers Club Forum    1931 was the first year Studebaker offered radios for the cars, although they were prewired from 1930.

 

I posted a photo of a Philco Transistone radio in a 1931 President in Post #9 here-------------->  auto history - Studebaker Drivers Club Forum

 

Craig

[30DodgePanel]

29 minutes ago, 8E45E said:

As per Post #4 here----->  First car radio was installed in a Studebaker - Studebaker Drivers Club Forum    1931 was the first year Studebaker offered radios for the cars, although they were prewired from 1930.

 

I posted a photo of a Philco Transistone radio in a 1931 President in Post #9 here-------------->  auto history - Studebaker Drivers Club Forum

 

Craig

 

Craig, unless I'm missing something I have to respectfully disagree.

How would a 1928 Studebaker have the "first" car radio when Philco didn't even take over American Radio Corp until later in 1930? 

Edited February 22 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[8E45E]

2 hours ago, 30DodgePanel said:

Craig, unless I'm missing something I have to respectfully disagree.

Many of us disagreed in those threads, which is why I specifically mentioned those post numbers which corrected the previous poster's comments. 

 

Craig

[pkhammer]

Who among you guys knows about early Philco radios? I have an NOS Philco UN6-500 remote style radio from 1948-1949 era still in it's original box. I was thinking it might be a cool addition to my '51 Ford F1. Almost hate to take it out of the box though.

  Here is the model.

[Frank DuVal]

I know enough to tell you that NOS radio will still have to have the paper capacitors replaced before use. 

[pkhammer]

Unfortunately I know nearly nothing about these early radios. It was not stored in the best environment. I found it on a shelf in a dirt floor garage. I'll post some pics later, it's a neat looking unit.

[edinmass]

Rolls Royce of America had a radio installed per customer request, in 1922. It took up the entire trunk on the back of the car. The antenna had a 20 foot lead, and its own stand. It could only be used when stationary.

[Walt G]

Accessory catalogs issued by the car manufacturers showed radios in the assorted makes. Some mentioned the make of radio some didn't but the car manufacturers were trying to get the customers $ any way they could. Specific paper was issued about the car radios and found its way to the car dealer service area or even to owners by request. My favorite uncle on my mother's side of the family was a huge electronics/radio guy his whole life ( he was born in 1914) . I may have some of his paperwork or papers/catalogs issued by the car manufacturers but that will take some time to look for and right now I don't have time for anything.

Edited February 23 by Walt G (see edit history)

[8E45E]

Car radios got even more interesting just before the second world war, when shortwave was offered.  More common on European cars, but Philco did offer shortwave tuners:  Short Wave Radio? - Studebaker Drivers Club Forum  

 

Of course because of FM's limited range compared to AM (BC)  and shortwave, it never became popular in cars until the early 1960's, although Lincoln did offer a floor-mounted FM tuner around 1960.

 

Craig

[Frank DuVal]

Buick offered Delco radios with shortwave bands before WWII. Enough we’re sold you can find them in 1940 and 41 cars today. 

[Gary_Ash]

In 1922, Col. Edward Green (1868-1936), the son of Hetty Green, "The Witch of Wall Street", installed a radio in his small, custom-built electric car.  Green was living at his estate at Round Hill in Dartmouth, MA and used the car to get around because one leg had been amputated when he was 21.  Col. Green later built a radio station on the property, eventually raising the power to 2500 watts on 680 KHz.  He also added an airport with a blimp mooring mast and hanger, the former whaling ship Charles W. Morgan, and a high voltage experimental lab eventually donated to MIT.  The grand house on the estate is now condos and the town owns the beach.  It's about 10 miles from my house, so we swim there in the summer.

 

The rest of the story on Wikipedia:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Howland_Robinson_Green

 

[Shootey]

32 minutes ago, Gary_Ash said:

The grand house on the estate is now condos and the town owns the beach.

Are the condos a modification of the grand house or did they flat lot the grand house?

[Gary_Ash]

The mansion house is still there, just divided into condo units.  Part of the surrounding land was developed into some very nice houses.

 

History of the mansion:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Round_Hill_(Dartmouth,_Massachusetts)

 

[AHa]

I was hesitant to post here. What I have I believe is home radios, though my question has sparked a very interesting discussion of car radios and now this grand old mansion. I believe it was Larry Dibairy that had posted of his love for old radios some time in the past. I'm looking for somebody who can give me an idea of what I have, some semblance of what it's worth, and where to sale. I will try to dig these out and post a picture to the guys who showed an interest.

[pkhammer]

Here's that NOS Philco I have. It has a small amount of corrosion in spots, likely because of the way it was stored.

 

[dodge28]

On some cars the chicken wire on the roof was used as an antenna, drained batteries were a result of playing radio while standing with the engine off. Only AM signals were available so the transmitting stations had to be close. 

[Frank DuVal]

1 hour ago, dodge28 said:

Only AM signals were available so the transmitting stations had to be close.

Until the sun went down! Then it was game on to listen to all the stations that could now go around the curvature of the earth.😉❗

[Gary_Ash]

There were a number of "clear channel" AM radio stations that had frequencies not shared by any other station within a thousand or more miles and were authorized up to 50,000 watts.  I remember driving at night in the 1960s tuning in WLS in Chicago (Dick Biondi), WABC in New York (Cousin Brucie), WBZ in Boston, WBAL in Baltimore and other far away stations as I drove up the East Coast.  My late father-in-law would sit by his transistor radio at home and try to log distant AM stations as well as foreign short wave stations.

 

Those Buick Super Sonomatic radios from 1941-42 with short wave capability were banned by the government when the U.S. entered WWII.  Owners were supposed to go to their GM dealer and exchange the shortwave radios for AM-only ones. Not everyone did.

 

Col. Edward Green's 100 watt station in Massachusetts, as mentioned above, was heard in England in Sept. 1923 at night.  My current amateur radio setup at home can put out a 1200 watt signal over short wave frequencies, can communicate with other amateurs (hams) almost anywhere in the world.  I haven't worked anyone in China or Australia yet, but I have heard Australia stations.  Perth, Australia is about the most distant place on the planet from my house, 11,700 miles.  Even using 100 watts, I have talked to hams in South Africa, Ukraine, Argentina, all over Europe and the U.S.  Radios are much better now than in the 1930s-1950s.

[Jim Skelly]

WJR in Detroit is another clear channel, 50,000-watt station.  It has been around since 1922.

[SparksNArcs]

On 2/23/2024 at 10:08 AM, AHa said:

I was hesitant to post here. What I have I believe is home radios, though my question has sparked a very interesting discussion of car radios and now this grand old mansion. I believe it was Larry Dibairy that had posted of his love for old radios some time in the past. I'm looking for somebody who can give me an idea of what I have, some semblance of what it's worth, and where to sale. I will try to dig these out and post a picture to the guys who showed an interest.

If you have home radios, I suggest posting any questions about them at the Antique Radio Forum: https://www.antiqueradios.com/forums/index.php

The folks there can identify just about anything, and help you with rough values. However, I do have to caution you that many radios aren't particularly valuable, even to collectors. The larger they are, the harder they become to sell.

Edit: If it's easier to post them here, I can provide rough estimates; I'm a member of the Puget Sound Antique Radio Association.

Edited February 25 by SparksNArcs (see edit history)

[Frank DuVal]

Yes, antiqueradios.com/forum is a good resource. I sent the web address to AHa by PM earlier today.

[8E45E]

6 hours ago, Gary_Ash said:

There were a number of "clear channel" AM radio stations that had frequencies not shared by any other station within a thousand or more miles and were authorized up to 50,000 watts.  I remember driving at night in the 1960s tuning in WLS in Chicago (Dick Biondi), WABC in New York (Cousin Brucie), WBZ in Boston, WBAL in Baltimore and other far away stations as I drove up the East Coast.  My late father-in-law would sit by his transistor radio at home and try to log distant AM stations as well as foreign short wave stations.

I remember doing that at night in the 1960's with our console hi-fi AM radio; searching for distant radio stations. It was able to pick up faraway radio stations, usually along the West Coast, including KOMO in Seattle and KFI in Los Angeles.  All the stations I could clearly pick up started with 'K', until one night, I was able to listen to WHO radio in Iowa, the first (and only) 'W' station that home hi-fi was able to receive from Edmonton.

 

Craig

[Larry Schramm]

14 hours ago, Jim Skelly said:

WJR in Detroit is another clear channel, 50,000-watt station.  It has been around since May 4, 1922.

 

KDKA in Pittsburgh was before that. I believe it is the only station east of the Mississippi that has a K first letter in the station identification.

November 2, 1920

On October 27, 1920, the Department of Commerce issued the first commercial radio station license under the call sign KDKA. On November 2, 1920, Leo Rosenberg broadcast the Harding-Cox presidential election returns, marking the first broadcast by a licensed radio station.

Under the call sign KDKA, Pittsburgh's Westinghouse Electric and Manufacturing Company transmitted the first scheduled broadcast on Nov. 2, 1920. KDKA's Leo Rosenberg announced live returns of the Presidential election between Warren G. Harding and James Cox.

Edited February 25 by Larry Schramm (see edit history)

[Jim Skelly]

WWJ in Detroit has been broadcasting since August of 1920.

[Frank DuVal]

On 2/25/2024 at 9:10 AM, Larry Schramm said:

KDKA in Pittsburgh was before that. I believe it is the only station east of the Mississippi that has a K first letter in the station identification.

KYW Philadelphia. There may be a few more. 

 

Broadcasting and broadcasting scheduled programs are different. Many experimental stations were on the air broadcasting before commercial scheduled programs began. Just like was Corvair or Jetfire the first turbocharged GM production car?😁 It's all in the words used.

 

I'm a member of this also:

 

https://ncrtv.org/