great way to waste a bunch of time skill and money, and ruin a good generation one

[my first riv]

10 hours ago, Wayne R said:

Thought i would give my perspective on this topic,, mainly because i have owned about 12 different  make models of classic cars from 

my first restoration a 39 Buick special sedan in New Zealand back in 1979.

It really all depends on  the classic   Make , year, model,  and value.

Some i will list.

11 Buicks  1939--1989. / 5 Porsche 911  1969--1984/  3 Jaguar 1963---1966/ 5 Mercedes 1963---1978/ 4 Alfa Romeo 1969---1974

3 Cadillac 1976---1979/  The others   are  alot of european  and Australian    NZ   classics i wont mention.

With high end Mercedes  ,Porsche  and other classics   what is happening   is  Original  factory stock  all ways wins out.

Here is a example i experienced  back  about 6 years  ago  at  Scottsdale David Gooding president of Santa  Monica  auction Conpany bearing his name,--quoted   how ideas are changing about what a classic car should look like ,he gave an example 2 virtually identical 1956 Mercedes Gullwing coupes, both black, red  interiors which were offered at his auction,--one was a perfectly restored 100point car, ran superbly,

the other untouched dirty, torn seats, sagging head liner, etc,--the untouched car sold  for just under $1,900,000, nearly$500,000 more than the perfectly restored example.

The same is happening with early Porsche 911---1967  to 1976--if restored to non stock factory  can loose  thousands of dollars.

I think in about 10 years  especially  with Buick this will be the same more so than now,  as the older they become,

values will rise,---older is always better.-----Other American  classics , Chevrolet, especially   can get away  with it a little as  non  factory

because it has thousands of  followers  for there different models, and they started  building non stock  alot earlyer  than most.

photos of  3 Buicks, 39 first restoration,65  best Buick i owned and current Buick probably last 64 Electra  convertible.

I agree that it very much depends on the car, some cars have already gotten to huge evaluations. But, much of that demand is it's rarity and also many are European and they start out at a premium to price just for the fact that they are typically terrible cars for maintenance and quality so finding ones that have either been restored or unrestored and in great shape brings that premium price. Certain cars are great candidates for full restoration, mine is not one of those. If I restored mine to factory correct everything it would be copper colored with silver interior, yup you read that right. Which makes my car with that color combination extremely rare, as in less then 30 1964 Riviera's total were done in that exact combination. I'd bet dollars to dimes that nobody short of those 30 or so color blind people would ever feel they would want to pay a premium for that god awful color combination and I would feel the need to wear a bag over my head to even drive a monstrosity  in that color combo. Which is why my car is prime for customizing, lowered on air suspension, shaved door handles, chrome and a custom paint scheme, Cars like mine actually fetch more money compared to it's stock configuration. Look at any custom LS swapped pro touring car versus it's restored counterpart comparing what the pro touring car came with from the factory versus it's exact same car with all the same factory options and the pro touring version wins hands down every time. I would totally restore a rare factory car if it was worth the trouble of a nut and bolt restoration, classic corvettes are prime examples of cars that can be worth a full restoration depending on condition of the car at the beginning as you can quite quickly exceed the value of those cars because parts for them are astronomic in pricing. Try to find a mechanical fuel injection system for one priced under $6k! Great looking cars by the way! Don't see to many convertible Buicks!

[kegart]

It's your car, do what you like. When you sell it, if I don't like it, I don't have to buy it.

I can't believe this thread has gone this long.

 

Kevin 

[Riv Eng]

3 hours ago, kegart said:

It's your car, do what you like. When you sell it, if I don't like it, I don't have to buy it.

I can't believe this thread has gone this long.

 

Kevin 

Thank you! I will say Mark has some great points, but otherwise: Can we not just appreciate all the sheet metal out there be it stock, modified, or custom?!? Nobody is forcing anyone to buy or drive a car they don't like

[drhach]

On 10/8/2022 at 7:44 PM, Seafoam65 said:

As I stated earlier, I like modified cars because they make the value of my stock car go up.

 

I think that there's a flaw in your logic. Rarity and price don't necessarily go hand in hand. You need a set of buyers with the desire and the means to compete for your car. Rivieras are a hot topic right now. Tastes can change in an instant and nobody will care how original your car is. Markets are fickle and in the toy market, people vote with their hearts, not their heads. Keeping your car stock may increase its rarity, but it doesn't guarantee that its intrinsic value will increase. Probably it will, but it isn't guaranteed. 

[60FlatTop]

Anyone remember Joe Galina from western New York. He didn't even like to hear the name modified. As he said "Buick never built a car called a "Riv". They built a Riviera."

 

And I have called them a Riviera ever since. It's in the details.

[Turbinator]

I’d like to think I’m ready to pack it in when the under taker comes to get my stinkin’’ butt. Until then I’m doing my best.

 

[Turbinator]

The thread regarding value and or custom is from different perspective. Personally, I modified my 63, but you can’t see the mods. The mods were made to improve the overall performance of the car. Electronic ignition, new suspension, better plug wires, better spark plugs, rebuilt engine with upgrade components, heavy duty clutch fan, newly rebuilt original PS pump, starter, AC system, coolant overflow tank well hidden, battery shut off switch, and dual brake master cylinder. Radial bias look tires, Clark’s Corvair factory repro upholstery, etc. My feeling about the upgrades was to make the car reliable and safe for road trips.

I had no intention of ever getting my investment in the car returned. If I were looking for a ROI it would be something else. There are Other avenues I can pursue For investment. A car is an expense, not an investment FOR ME. Others can make money with vintage cars, but not me.

[Turbinator]

16 hours ago, drhach said:

I think that there's a flaw in your logic. Rarity and price don't necessarily go hand in hand. You need a set of buyers with the desire and the means to compete for your car. Rivieras are a hot topic right now. Tastes can change in an instant and nobody will care how original your car is. Markets are fickle and in the toy market, people vote with their hearts, not their heads. Keeping your car stock may increase its rarity, but it doesn't guarantee that its intrinsic value will increase. Probably it will, but it isn't guaranteed. 

I agree 100%. It is great if you can earn money in your hobby. I don’t count on earning a measurable amount of $ in my hobby. The Riviera I have is a piece of time I can go back and remember my time in the early 60’s. Great fun. No expectations for return on investment measured with dollars. I sell a few parts and dressed turbines. All in fun.

[drhach]

I think the big thing is that these companies spend a lot of money hiring people who devote their lives to design and engineering. Then some guy comes a long thinking he can improve on that. I think most of the time it just doesn't turn out that well. 

[Riv Eng]

13 hours ago, drhach said:

I think the big thing is that these companies spend a lot of money hiring people who devote their lives to design and engineering. Then some guy comes a long thinking he can improve on that. I think most of the time it just doesn't turn out that well. 

I dunno man. These cars left lots of room for improvements. Coil overs, electronic ignition... basically everything Turbinator spoke about. In stock form, these cars wallow through corners with all the grace of a walrus on ice skates. 

 

You don't have to be an engineer to make these cars better. It helps (In my opinion anyway) but it certainly isn't required.

 

I think Turbinator hit the 'nail' on the head: "all in fun"  

[RivNut]

You buy a 50+ year old car, you buy 50+ year old technology.  If you want a car to handle like a BMW, go buy a BMW.  They come from the factory with everything that you’re trying to ad to your car. Plus some engineers spent a lot of time making everything work as a unit.  When you add the coil overs, etc to a 50+ year old car, you’re mixing old with new and they’re not designed to be compatible. Waste of time and money.  Enjoy it for what it was designed to be in the first place.

[Turbinator]

10 hours ago, RivNut said:

You buy a 50+ year old car, you buy 50+ year old technology.  If you want a car to handle like a BMW, go buy a BMW.  They come from the factory with everything that you’re trying to ad to your car. Plus some engineers spent a lot of time making everything work as a unit.  When you add the coil overs, etc to a 50+ year old car, you’re mixing old with new and they’re not designed to be compatible. Waste of time and money.  Enjoy it for what it was designed to be in the first place.

Ed, you are reading my opinions not in the right light or I’m not writing good English. Updates to an almost 60 year old car are required if you are going to drive the car and you want to be safe. Rebuilt steering box, radial tires, dual master brake cylinder, replacement shocks, rebuilt engine to stock with some upgrades, replaced 60 year old brake lines and brake cylinders, repaired AC with ORIGINAL R12, and other items are for my enjoyment. I bought the car to take on road trips. Had I purchased the car for annual parades and local car club meets I would not have refreshed the car to the level I have. I drove the 63 Riviera to Branson MO and back to Lutherville with not one item needing attention. Two thousand two hundred twenty five miles is not the longest a Riviera has been driven. I ask how many members would drive that distance without knowing the car was maintained to make the trip? Heck, just out of the blue my fuel delivery system failed summer before last and come to find out the gas tank repair gunk clogged the sender that had no sock. You think a 60 year old car is going to have for certain a good gas tank? So, The whole fuel delivery system tank to carb was replaced. I’m suggesting anyone with numerous Rivieras in various stages of repair at home or in storage with not one Riviera on the highway pause before they say anyone is “ wasting time and money” fixing their car so it runs.

If resources were not available I would not have a 63 Riviera. I want a strong running, safe Riviera driver I can take on trips. …. Louis Jordan said, “ don’t sit there mumbling talkin’ trash. If you wanna have a ball you gotta spend some cash…. Let the good times roll.” 1946 “ Let The Good Times Roll”.

[Riv Eng]

I agree Bob. If you want to drive these cars you need to upgrade it. And Ed, If I want my '64 to handle like a BMW, then what of it? My money, my time, and I can do all the engineering required to make it perform as a unit. If I wanted a BMW, you're right - I would go buy one. But I don't want a BMW. I want a Riv that handles like  BMW  

 

I feel like this thread has gone on long enough, so ill just say one thing before I keep perpetuating this thread further. There seem to be 2 diametrically opposed people on this forum - Stockers and modifiers. Stockers think the car should be enjoyed "as is" and upgrades detract from the design and enjoyment the cars have been engineered for. Modifiers think the original engineering and design left a lot to be improved on. Both have their places, merits, and cons.

 

I know where I fall, but I certainly won't get upset about Seafoam leaving his Riv bonestock. His car, and when he decides to sell it, I just won't buy it. 

 

Let's just enjoy all the Rivs out there. All in fun. 

[kegart]

Upgades to improve safety ,stopping and handling only make sense .

 

Kevin 

[telriv]

Back in the day, even though not advertised as such, these 1st. Gen Rivs handled pretty decently.  I've weighed them & the rears are close to 50/50. 

We've been spoiled by the newer vehicles as even today a lowly Civic will out handle the 1st. Gens.

For the most part none of the things on Turbinators car can be seen, BUT it makes for a much more enjoyable driving experience.

Bob had his engine rebuilt because it was using a Qt. of oil every 800 miles. This was normal back in  the day. Even 500 miles was considered normal.

We both went to Branson in June, doing 75-80MPH all the way. His engine rebuilder & I spent hours on the phone & thankfully he wrote notes & even called me a couple times with questions. As Bob stated almost 2500 miles & NO oil usage. He's down in Fl. now, just shy of Al. 

HE DRIVES HIS VEHICLE & ENJOYS IT FOR WHAT IT IS!!!!  Gudos to him.

With a DynaFlow equipped Riv. the majority of them came with 3.23 gears standard. So at 75-80MPH the engine is definitely buzzing along. 

Part of it has to do with the design of MY FORGED PISTONS. Not cheap by any means, BUT you will get what the engine was designed to do & even MORE/BETTER.

Evidence of NO OIL USAGE.

Don't forget a modest BMW will cost you about 60K+.  LOTS can be done to a 60 yr. old vehicle with 60K, AND Bob hasn't spent that much. Not even close. 

 

I could write for days. It's getting late & I have to get up early in the morning to start my day.

 

Goodnight,

 

Tom T.

Edited October 19, 2022 by telriv (see edit history)

[Turbinator]

On 10/15/2022 at 9:35 AM, drhach said:

I think the big thing is that these companies spend a lot of money hiring people who devote their lives to design and engineering. Then some guy comes a long thinking he can improve on that. I think most of the time it just doesn't turn out that well. 

There are instances when a work around on my 63 Riviera was required. Part substitution had to be put in place. For example, numerous STV Rebuilds that pro shop did failed. I threw the STV away and put an STV BYPASS kit that works. Vacuum actuators on the Riviera 63 numbers 3 & 4 did not work. Out 63 Tech advisor, Jim Cannon, at the ROA gave us a single dual port actuator with vacuum hose routing directions that replaced 3&4 vacuum actuators. Still had the same major AC stock components and R12 with cold air.

Better than me trying to put in an after

market replacement AC. And better than no AC.

In the case of complete engine swaps? The gents that do that kind of modification could care less about keeping the car stock. Putting a different engine in the Riviera other than the nailhead is beyond my comprehension. In the case of engine swaps what is the point? Are you going to make the Riviera a hot rod? Make a hot rod  out of 1960’s Malibu or Chevelle.

Edited October 19, 2022 by Turbinator (see edit history)

[telriv]

EXCELLENT reply Bob.

 

Tom T.

[60FlatTop]

I have been active in the car hobby since the summer of 1958 with no significant period of time away from the hobby. No gaps. So far on this topic I am about here.

 

Before there was Kodachrome there were blind men with an elephant.

 

I have GM cars that are completely as built and function quite well. I recently acquired a Chrysler that has been extensively modified with GM parts. Its modifications are exactly the ones I would have done.

[drhach]

I get exactly what you're saying Turbinator. I'm facing similar issues with some components on my car. I guess what I was talking about was more the guy who thinks he can do better than the designers and engineers. I'll allow that not all design and engineering is good. But for the most part, those people were the "A" players in that world and they knew what they were doing. I just don't think that a lot of the "customizing" that you see is generally better than the original. Most people don't have the training to pull off some of the styling cues that they add to a car. You look at them and it just kind of looks "wrong" for reasons that you maybe can't even explain. The other side of that is you look at these cars as they came from the factory and they just look "right". 

[Turbinator]

On 10/19/2022 at 11:56 AM, drhach said:

 

I get exactly what you're saying Turbinator. I'm facing similar issues with some components on my car. I guess what I was talking about was more the guy who thinks he can do better than the designers and engineers

 

Yes Sir, we are on the save wave length. Without reservation anyone that wants to modify the exterior of a first gen Riviera really better know they are competing with acknowledged automobile design by the industry. I believe one of the first gen Rivieras is known as Milestone design car. In the case an owner believe he/she can improve on the exterior design I was advise to proceed with extreme. If it were a friend of mine getting ready to customize the exterior I would take him for tests of sound mine. Upgrading plug wires since 50 + years ago, better spark plugs available, electronic ignition with one wire and every up grade tucked away so they are invisible to judges ( most judges). I  I pu in all new upholstery kit from Clark’s Corvair and I d dare anyone to point out differences they can prove.

I do have comments about keeping the AC stock because I know the OEM components and R12 can give you cold air. I’d go as far to say the STV really work / if you know how to rebuild to function as intended. I’ll admit the more I try sometimes the worse it gets. In the long run I’ll persist until so get it or I pay someone to get it right the problem the problem will be solved.

Not a man to beat my head against a dead horse. Im going to start another thread how my “ upgraded” components fared at the AACA Eastern National Meet at Hershey PA this past month. Surprising, to me any way.

Gents at our stage of the game we would do better to encourage one another to do our best for betterment for our own enjoyment. I put a lot of stock in reliability and minimal downtime for anything we use in our lives. Back up parts that WE think we might need is not a bad idea for our cars. I know having a back up original radiator for recore and on another occasion having a back up AC condenser right on the property saved downtime. Realistic? Who is that intense and  have the space to store this junk? Fairly Intense Turbinator had those parts on hand to fix his car. Dare say a good relationship with a good OEM SUPPLIER is not a bad idea. Truly can be expensive but you can get what you want when you need it. I can go along with paying premium prices, to a degree, for the collectible item. Balance the great score you got  for when you have to kick it out for pricey essential part you need. It’s all about having great fun with other decent Americans, like the gents in the club,  that love those Rivieras.

Later Gator,

Turbinator

[1965rivgs]

4 hours ago, Turbinator said:

Yes Sir, we are on the save wave length. Without reservation anyone that wants to modify the exterior of a first gen Riviera really better know they are competing with acknowledged automobile design by the industry. I believe one of the first gen Rivieras is known as Milestone design car. In the case an owner believe he/she can improve on the exterior design I was advise to proceed with extreme. If it were a friend of mine getting ready to customize the exterior I would take him for tests of sound mine. Upgrading plug wires since 50 + years ago, better spark plugs available, electronic ignition with one wire and every up grade tucked away so they are invisible to judges ( most judges). I  I pu in all new upholstery kit from Clark’s Corvair and I d dare anyone to point out differences they can prove.

I do have comments about keeping the AC stock because I know the OEM components and R12 can give you cold air. I’d go as far to say the STV really work / if you know how to rebuild to function as intended. I’ll admit the more I try sometimes the worse it gets. In the long run I’ll persist until so get it or I pay someone to get it right the problem the problem will be solved.

Not a man to beat my head against a dead horse. Im going to start another thread how my “ upgraded” components fared at the AACA Eastern National Meet at Hershey PA this past month. Surprising, to me any way.

Gents at our stage of the game we would do better to encourage one another to do our best for betterment for our own enjoyment. I put a lot of stock in reliability and minimal downtime for anything we use in our lives. Back up parts that WE think we might need is not a bad idea for our cars. I know having a back up original radiator for recore and on another occasion having a back up AC condenser right on the property saved downtime. Realistic? Who is that intense and  have the space to store this junk? Fairly Intense Turbinator had those parts on hand to fix his car. Dare say a good relationship with a good OEM SUPPLIER is not a bad idea. Truly can be expensive but you can get what you want when you need it. I can go along with paying premium prices, to a degree, for the collectible item. Balance the great score you got  for when you have to kick it out for pricey essential part you need. It’s all about having great fun with other decent Americans, like the gents in the club,  that love those Rivieras.

Later Gator,

Turbinator

  "You can't go wrong with the Turbinator, he's fairly intense"

Tom

[XframeFX]

5 hours ago, Turbinator said:

I know having a back up original radiator for recore and on another occasion having a back up AC condenser right on the property saved downtime.

Make that a backup rebuildable Fuel Pump as well. Also, with a kit to do it.

 

I agree totally with the Turbinator. Although downtime not an issue with me. I'd just move on to another project until parts arrive the slowest/cheapest route. Research on unobtainum parts that are ready out-of-the box a huge time sink.

 

Hats off to the Turbinator with his services to help us with our projects. I am selfish, do not provide services to anyone except my own project. Well, I do offer advise, N/C.

 

As for a full custom project. I'm fine with wheels/covers. That's my extent and it's reversible. Buick's Formula V styled steel wheels that started on the '64 Wildcat work well on my '63 Riviera. If I had room, another set. Maybe OE rims (15X6) to mount my tri-shield '63 wirecaps although prefer those turbines.

The are some cars that can impress without a nice finish, patina. However, to distinguish 1st gens from other '60s cars such as a Chevelle, our Rivs need a nice paint finish and when they do, stunning!

 

So, do I need to customize?

Lady in the crowd gathered around my Riv with other classics to their backs: "Excuse me sir. Is this your car?" Yes Ma'am. "Great because I have to tell you what a beautiful car!"

[Turbinator]

On 10/20/2022 at 11:29 PM, XframeFX said:

So, do I need to customize?

Depends on your definition of customize. So ROA gents might think putting an aftermarket AC in your Riviera would be a modification not a customization. Putting other Buick wheels on your car would be a modification. Shaving your door handles on your car would be a custom item. 
I’ve said earlier I’ve upgraded some replacement parts that are not OEM. For instance on one of my starters I have a heavy duty Eckler selinoid. I would accept being marked down on points at a 400 point judging for having the Eckler selinoid.

I attended the ACCA EASTERN FALL NATIONALS AT HERSHEY PA this past month. I showed my car just for fun and being able to participate never expecting.an award. I’ve got plenty missing and upgrades I try to hide. I wrote the judge to get my score. AACA said no scores would given but they would mail. The score sheet only highlighted areas I could improve. Nonetheless a Junior Third award was given. I was quite surprised. Modifications slipped by? Probably. Had a lot of fun looking at the other cars and answering questions about my turbines.

[kegart]

We need to keep in mind that our old cars are a hobby. If you can have more fun with a few modifications, do it.

If your main concern is  investment value and your afraid to drive your old car or make any changes, your missing a lot of fun.

I put a little over 3000 miles on the Riviera this year and probably a little  more road rash but I had fun.

 

Kevin 

 

 

[Turbinator]

7 hours ago, kegart said:

I put a little over 3000 miles on the Riviera this year and probably a little  more road rash but I had fun.

Kevin, if anyone knows how to message the road rash away it is you.

stay well

Turbinator

[sosuzguy]

On 10/7/2022 at 12:32 PM, RivNut said:

If “modified” first generation Rivieras tend to make your blood boil, DO NOT look at the 63 - 65 Riviera Group on Facebook.  Especially if you’re prone to having nightmares.

Most anything on Farsebook is a nightmare..

[dr914]

my point is with the general total lack of mechanics and body man these days (since all of the industrial arts programs have been closed in high school and replaced with poetry classes) If there is a talented guy out there, he should use his time to save the marque not ruin it

[arnulfo de l.a.]

19 hours ago, sosuzguy said:

Most anything on Farsebook is a nightmare..

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Have seen many rivis on facebook i would be proud to drive

[Turbinator]

On 10/26/2022 at 4:35 PM, dr914 said:

my point is with the general total lack of mechanics and body man these days (since all of the industrial arts programs have been closed in high school and replaced with poetry classes) If there is a talented guy out there, he should use his time to save the marque not ruin it

As a salesman for design build of back office business, mailing, and shipping I gave the customer what they wanted while providing consultation before during and after the sale. As a band leader the customers asked for “ Mustang Sally” 10 times at one gig, they got

“Mustang Sally”. There are times you have to separate what you like and tune in to the guy with the money.

If you make your living in the vintage car repair, modified, customized business, give the customer what they want. Customers vote at your business with dollars. I had one customer that was horribly off balance and I would not sell to him. The customer came in through eBay to make a purchase. Once I saw who it was I promptly refunded his money. Additionally I told him several times before who would probably have what he was looking for. The fellow behaved like I dropped an atom bomb.

In this case I should have taken the money and keep peace.

My point is make an informed decision before you work on the customers car.

 

Edited October 28, 2022 by Turbinator (see edit history)

[Turbinator]

On 10/7/2022 at 12:18 PM, Jim Cannon said:

To each their own.

Jim, I think you are 100% correct. All of us have been impressed/ influenced about the cars we like and don’t like. I think my view is panoramic when I look at cars in car show. In my area I end up in the minority by having a stock Buick Riviera at local car shows. I wonder where the vintage stock cars are? I thought I’d go to the AACA EASTERN Nationals at Hershey PA and find out. I entered for fun and knew the judges could rip the car apart. The judges did rip it apart and then let me slide a lot. I wrote for my points and got a letter of congratulations for winning my Third Junior award. A lower award, but way past my expectations. The letter highlighted weak areas and showed no point deduction. When I was marked down on my turbines I was surprised

and laughed. I said myself, “

Im the Turbinator! Does that man not know who he judging.”
The cars at Hershey were shown by people who were truly major league restoration folks and superb detailets. Probably the best time I’ve ever had at a car show. Really, a wonderful event I’ll continue to attend. Some of the things the judges said I was weak were my tires. I have American Classic Radial -Bias look tires. The judge said I must have bias tires, not just look like bias tires. I remarked in a courteous way I thought you judged on how the car looked? The judge repeated what he had said. I shook his hand and thanked him for volunteering his time to come and judge. The Judge Captain smiled. It was a beautiful day.

Edited October 28, 2022 by Turbinator (see edit history)

[Turbinator]

10 hours ago, arnulfo de l.a. said:

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Have seen many rivis on facebook i would be proud to drive

Arnulfo, you write like a man who knows what modification, customization, stock is. All three styles can be top shelf or not so strong. All I can say is  I was impressed/influenced by the low rider custom crowd in my neighborhood. Some low riders I rode in had suspension ruined. A number of the Lowriders were really smooth and slow. 
Our American culture is diverse. What might be cool in Kansas might not cut it in a neighborhood in Southern California. I try for an open mind and think about the positives in a man’s car. The work, the money, the pride in ownership is what counts. You don’t have to like the color but you can say an outstanding paint job. We don’t have to like the engine bay but we can say how great the engine is detailed. Being positive just might sound corny to some. I’d rather be positive and be corny, but compliment a man for his hard ass work and money he put in his car. I know exactly how to be any negative person you want to call me. Changing my thinking to being a positive person about a man’s car is not hurting a soul.

Edited October 28, 2022 by Turbinator (see edit history)

[Turbinator]

On 10/13/2022 at 7:31 PM, Seafoam65 said:

There is absolutely no question that the value of my car goes up every time an original one

is customized....thanks and keep it up, perhaps my car will hit $100,000 when it's the last one on earth

to be left stock.....I can't wait!  The value of something is directly related to how rare it is , simple as that.

It's why 71 hemi Cuda convertibles that sold new for 4,000 dollars fetch 1.5 million dollars.  

Winston, you know you are not selling nary one of those show class cars you have no matter the price. You like what you like and what you like is fine with me. The reason I prefer stock or as close to stock as I can get without bursting a blood vessel is it is easier for me. I personalize my car now and then but it takes an hour or two to move it back to stock. If a gent wants to customize his Riviera I encourage him to have a good time and watch how the value of our cars careen to the sky when all along we are not  selling. I suspect our estate will manage to do something with our stuff.

[Turbinator]

On 10/20/2022 at 9:29 PM, 1965rivgs said:

  "You can't go wrong with the Turbinator, he's fairly intense"

Tom

“ When you deal with The Turbinator you always come out a winner”

Turbinator

 

i appreciate your positive comment in jest, complimentary,  or in any light.

Being able to laugh at oneself has given me some of my best laughs. My intensity is absolutely my Achilles heel and helpful at the same time.

[sosuzguy]

23 hours ago, arnulfo de l.a. said:

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Have seen many rivis on facebook i would be proud to drive

Likewise there are plenty that look like clown cars, but as you said about the beholder...

Edited October 28, 2022 by sosuzguy (see edit history)

[1965rivgs]

14 hours ago, Turbinator said:

“ When you deal with The Turbinator you always come out a winner”

Turbinator

 

i appreciate your positive comment in jest, complimentary,  or in any light.

Being able to laugh at oneself has given me some of my best laughs. My intensity is absolutely my Achilles heel and helpful at the same time.

  Yes Bob, in jest and complimentary...you are The Fairly Intense Turbinator!

Tom

[1965rivgs]

On 10/7/2022 at 11:35 PM, Turbinator said:

" I was delighted one of the Judges knew my Dinsmore Compass was ok."

 

 

[Turbinator]

Outstanding research. Props to those that have the skill to get the correct information. Penchant for bringing home the correct information for those with hard heads is respected.

My course of action is visit the book I used to check for a Buick error. Large corporations have been known to make mistakes in their print literature. One department forgets or overlooks another department  to provide information and their lies misinformation. Now, the only time I’ve made a mistake is when I thought I made one.( now that is a joke). 
In the case I’m mistaken as a result of Buick error I’m happy to stand corrected. In the case I’m mistaken because I neglected to double check the year I’ll stand corrected and blame it on my glasses. I have a collection of compasses I enjoy having for Rivieras and other GM cars. The compass that has a light for night navigation my wife likes a lot. However this turns out it makes for a good abbreviated story.

Turbinator

[EmTee]

I'm of the opinion that period-correct accessories should also be allowed without deduction.  I don't know what the AACA rule book says about that, but something like an under-dash 4-way flasher or Perfect Circle cruise control that could have been dealer installed originally shouldn't be penalized.

[RivNut]

11 hours ago, EmTee said:

I'm of the opinion that period-correct accessories should also be allowed without deduction.  I don't know what the AACA rule book says about that, but something like an under-dash 4-way flasher or Perfect Circle cruise control that could have been dealer installed originally shouldn't be penalized.

Would you consider rally wheels okay on a 63 or 64 if they could be purchased over the parts counter at your local Buick dealer after having driven the car a few years?  There are a lot of guys who show their 63s and 64s equipped with rally wheels as “stock” at the ROA events each summer.

[1965rivgs]

11 hours ago, EmTee said:

I'm of the opinion that period-correct accessories should also be allowed without deduction.  I don't know what the AACA rule book says about that, but something like an under-dash 4-way flasher or Perfect Circle cruise control that could have been dealer installed originally shouldn't be penalized.

  I dont know the particulars of the judging guidelines. I`ve found over the years I usually know more than the judges, as Bob discovered re his turbine wheels...so I dont have much regard for the awards that are produced in the process and I dont pay much attention. But what is the definition of "period correct"? From a points judging perspective, the term sounds like a rabbit hole/ can of worms to me. 

Tom