Best driving 1930-1934 cars

[John_S_in_Penna]

On 9/13/2022 at 11:29 PM, Rusty_OToole said:

There may be more to this than meets the eye. A dealer may have bought a car that was sitting unused for years and spent thousands of dollars and a hundred hours cleaning, polishing, and repairing... 

Perhaps, but not in cases which I have seen.

For example, several years ago, a 1934 Buick

50 series 2-door sedan was for sale in the Buick Bugle

for $37,000, which eventually went down to $32,000.

The car was said to be a near 400-point show car with

no needs.

 

A dealer bought it, probably for around $30,000, and

immediately raised the price to over $60,000!  That same

dealer had that car for over 4 years, unsold.

 

On 9/12/2022 at 10:06 AM, John_S_in_Penna said:

...And such a statement can be documented,

because a car may be for sale by a long-time owner for

a certain amount, and said to have no needs, and then

reappear at a dealer's for double the price.

 

[60FlatTop]

In my own mind, just to make the first cut, I would rule out most restored cars. I have driven quite a few and the well maintained original ones have usually been the best drivers and the fit 'n finish seemed much better.

 

I spent a warn summer afternoon giving a Terraplane 8 a good cooling system test. The convertible coupe is kind of small but it is a hot little car. Flathead Cadillacs are probably my favorite '30's drivers. I have always wanted a '38 60S.

[Den41Buick]

All great suggestions. I would love a Pierce or Packard but there have been few and far between club sedans. I am  looking at an unrestored 33 Cadillac. I will let you know how that goes. 

[John_S_in_Penna]

6 hours ago, Den41Buick said:

I would love a Pierce or Packard but there have been few and far between club sedans. 

Den, here is a link to a 1934 Pierce-Arrow.  It is what

would be termed a club sedan.  I can't vouch for the 

car or the dealer, but this is a start.  They are asking

$54,500.  The user "Edinmass," who is often on the forum,

specializes in Pierces and may be able to give good advice.

 

https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/pierce/unspecified/2609572.html

 

Edited September 17, 2022 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[Grimy]

5 minutes ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

Den, here is a link to a 1934 Pierce-Arrow.  It is what

would be termed a club sedan.  I can't vouch for the 

car or the dealer, but this is a start.  They are asking

$54,500.  The user "Edinmass," who is often on the forum,

specializes in Pierces and may be able to give good advice.

 

https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/pierce/unspecified/2609572.html

 

Pierce-Arrow called that model a "sedan."  It is a model 836A, the lowest cost model that year, and a one-year model at that.  The only other 836A body style offered was a 2-door sedan termed a "brougham."  The 836A has the previous year's 366 cid engine (3.5 x 4.75) and solid lifters.  My concern is that of potential overheating, as the 836As as offered initially lacked hood side vents that were on other Pierce cars offered that year.  Apparently overheating was an issue then, because most 836As were retrofitted with hood side panels from 1935 model 845 (3 vents in a row).  The 840A came in 139- or 144-inch wheelbases, had a 385 cid (3.5 x 5) engine continuing with the hydraulic lifters begun in 1933.  The build quality was the same as the senior cars; no liberties were taken.

 

The 836A had a unique body and virtually no body panels interchange with the model 840A.  This seems to be a very nice one, but in the Pierce community, that's a love it or hate it body style.

[edinmass]

The 836A is a tiny car, and not a club sedan. That said, club sedans are not too hard to find…….I think I have had five Pierce club sedans over the years. This is my “keeper” a parts car when I bought it at 24 years old. I can’t believe that was 32 years ago. It’s been a great car. Photo is a 800 mile tour in Maine about seven years ago.

 

 

[Rusty_OToole]

8 hours ago, Den41Buick said:

All great suggestions. I would love a Pierce or Packard but there have been few and far between club sedans. I am  looking at an unrestored 33 Cadillac. I will let you know how that goes. 

There is a 1936 Pierce Arrow on the Hemmings site for a good price. I did not mention it because of your 1934 cutoff date. But if you like a Pierce it may be worth a look.

 

https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale/pierce-arrow/1601/2569212.html

Edited September 17, 2022 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)

[edinmass]

I’m familiar with the car for sale in Connecticut. It was owned for decades by a good friend of mine. Nice car.

[Rusty_OToole]

Or for half the money there is this Studebaker President Eight. I like this car although I am sure some will find it too loud with its paint job and white wall tires. Could be a good car although I would not expect it to keep up with interstate hiway traffic.

 

https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale/studebaker/president/2608829.html

[Grimy]

1 hour ago, edinmass said:

The 836A is a tiny car, and not a club sedan.

That "tiny car" (836A) has a 136" wheelbase; Ed's 1936 1602 (V-12) club sedan sits on a 139" wheelbase--all of 3 inches longer than that of the "tiny car."  🙂

[edinmass]

George, the 836A is nine inches narrower in the front seat and body It’s like sitting in economy on an airplane. There is no comparison between them. I wasn’t referring to chassis length.

Edited September 17, 2022 by edinmass (see edit history)

[Den41Buick]

8 hours ago, Rusty_OToole said:

There is a 1936 Pierce Arrow on the Hemmings site for a good price. I did not mention it because of your 1934 cutoff date. But if you like a Pierce it may be worth a look.

 

https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale/pierce-arrow/1601/2569212.html

Yes. I saw it. Talked with the owner. It has been sold. Off to a new home.

[prewarnut]

    I dunno, I'd look at the Graham. It has such an unadulterated appearance, free expression of clean art deco lines, minimalist, and I love the anachronistic use of artillery wheels on mid '30s cars when we has better designs. I'd be tempted to see if a light compounding would bring out the maroon color better but then again if I couldn't restrain myself perhaps it might notbe the car for me.🙄

 

[prewarnut]

    I dunno, I'd look at the Graham. It has such an unadulterated appearance, free expression of clean art deco lines, minimalist, and I love the anachronistic use of artillery wheels on mid '30s cars when we has better designs. I'd be tempted to see if a light compounding would bring out the maroon color better but then again if I couldn't restrain myself perhaps it might notbe the car for me.🙄

 

[prewarnut]

    I dunno, I'd look at the Graham. It has such an unadulterated appearance, free expression of clean art deco lines, minimalist, and I love the anachronistic use of artillery wheels on mid '30s cars when we has better designs. I'd be tempted to see if a light compounding would bring out the maroon color better but then again if I couldn't restrain myself perhaps it might notbe the car for me.🙄

 

[60FlatTop]

4 hours ago, edinmass said:

There is no comparison between them. I wasn’t referring to chassis length.

I just noticed how a Studebaker was mentioned a couple entries later. I wonder what brought that to mind.

[Rusty_OToole]

3 hours ago, 60FlatTop said:

I just noticed how a Studebaker was mentioned a couple entries later. I wonder what brought that to mind.

I'm convinced the Pierce straight eight was based on a much modified Studebaker President straight eight. Would be interested in Ed's comments.

Edited September 17, 2022 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)

[Highlander160]

No matter what you pick try for something that has an almost cult status in club support. Packard, Studebaker, Auburn, Pierce (somewhat), and of course Cadillac/LaSalle. All pretty strong club support. Odd cars may have clubs too but their scarcity tends to carry into parts availability as well. Lots of swap meet searches just for spares to have on the shelf, where you can get dadgum near anything for a Packard. I said NEAR, I well know there's unobtainiums in all makes. But you Will tell us what you picked, right?

[Den41Buick]

Yes,  I will certainly tell you what I choose. 

[Den41Buick]

On 9/13/2022 at 9:46 PM, edinmass said:

If I can only have one old car………..and that thought scares the hell out of me, it would be a 1932 Series 54 Pierce. 

Do you know of any that may be coming up for sale?

[Buffalowed Bill]

On 9/17/2022 at 11:36 AM, Rusty_OToole said:

I'm convinced the Pierce straight eight was based on a much modified Studebaker President straight eight. Would be interested in Ed's comments.

I agree, having owned both and presently own a President, it has always mystified me why some Pierce people continue to argue against what seems so obvious.

[Rusty_OToole]

It might be because the engine was changed so much as to be practically a new design. 9 main bearings in place of 5, different bore and stroke, different alloys used for block casting and other parts, added niceties like the oil temperature regulator, and later hydraulic valve lifters. I don't doubt that they were different engines that share a common origin.

[Gary_Ash]

Not so fast, Rusty!  The Studebaker President engine went to 9 main bearings in 1931, shared the same 3-1/2" bore as the P-A engine.  Studebaker stroke was 4-3/8, P-A stroke was 4-3/4. Both engines were cast in the Studebaker foundry in South Bend, IN, and it is unlikely that the alloys were different because of the complexity of changeover in the foundry, though we know the rumor persists.  Many engine parts are interchangeable between 1928-33 Presidents (and older models) and 1929-31 P-A eights, including pistons, piston pins, oil pump gears, valves, valve guides, solid lifters.  Also brakes, king pins and bushings, axle shafts, and wire wheel hubs, plus UU-2 and UUR-2 carbs on some models.  The cylinder heads were different, though a P-A head might fit a President.

 

One aspect of choosing an old car as a "driver" is the transmission.  By 1935, there were synchromesh transmissions that no longer had straight-cut gears, and you could get overdrive.  Things were changing fast, so a little later car can be very different from a 1929-31 car.   

[Buffalowed Bill]

1 hour ago, Gary_Ash said:

Not so fast, Rusty!  The Studebaker President engine went to 9 main bearings in 1931, shared the same 3-1/2" bore as the P-A engine.  Studebaker stroke was 4-3/8, P-A stroke was 4-3/4. Both engines were cast in the Studebaker foundry in South Bend, IN, and it is unlikely that the alloys were different because of the complexity of changeover in the foundry, though we know the rumor persists.  Many engine parts are interchangeable between 1928-33 Presidents (and older models) and 1929-31 P-A eights, including pistons, piston pins, oil pump gears, valves, valve guides, solid lifters.  Also brakes, king pins and bushings, axle shafts, and wire wheel hubs, plus UU-2 and UUR-2 carbs on some models.  The cylinder heads were different, though a P-A head might fit a President.

 

One aspect of choosing an old car as a "driver" is the transmission.  By 1935, there were synchromesh transmissions that no longer had straight-cut gears, and you could get overdrive.  Things were changing fast, so a little later car can be very different from a 1929-31 car.   

All of what Gary says is true plus a great deal more. As a very good friend, noted restorer and a PA owner, said one day when we were discussing the subject. One company buys the other (Studebaker bought PA)-six months later there are new models for both in the showrooms. Both cars resemble one another, and no other American marque, but both cars look like the offerings of one of the company's 1928 models, and have no resemblance to the other company's 1928 models. No 1928 PA parts or technology transitioned into the 1929 PA. To put it bluntly no car company could do the engineering required, put a new model into production, and get it into the showroom in 6 months. Not then, not now, not ever.

[John_Mereness]

A 1934 Auburn 850 would be the best driving in a CCCA and a 6 cyl in a non-CCCA = Yes, the cars are that good and for 1935 and 1936 too.  People will be quick to tell you it is something else in a car that will drive better (ex a Packard or ....) and the answer is that it is just a different feel.  Keep in mind that the Auburn is a "pocket luxury" car and about equal to a Buick in quality, though the advantages are the reduced weight also allows for agility and speed, the horsepower is good, gearing is good, Columbia 2 speed axle is nice feature, airplane style tube shocks, cars have nice seating, great storage space, good looks, the Phaeton/Convertible Sedans are all steel construction and ....  The faults are that Lycoming was not known for its casting quality and the Columbia has some design issues.   As to current/today, the faults would also be parts availability (too many poor condition cars have been restored for the quantity of available parts).   

 

As to the finest pre-war car as to driving it will be a Cord 810 or 810 (about the best things made pre-1953-ish - that said they are also not known for being user friendly (though if you are engineer geared ....).  You do get great looks though !!!

Edited September 21, 2022 by John_Mereness (see edit history)

[Flivverking]

I’m on the floor laughing my old booty off... This is stupid, The more money you can spend on the biggest best car you can afford from the era you like is going to bring you the best drivable car period ....duh!  

 A 1932 Buick is going to be heads over a 1932 Ford any day..for drive and comfort.   For silly wast full fun maybe not.  For class ...and construction yes.

[edinmass]

Having actually rebuilt examples of both Stude(President) and Pierce engines, they are related cousins. Probably second cousins. Having driven both of them also, a Stude is similar to an Auburn in build quality. Simply put, a Pierce will run circles around the Stude........displacement then and today are still kings of the road. Both are fine automobiles. They are apples and oranges. That said, the Pierce is a MUCH better road car. The original price proves it. I would own a Stude President if I cam across the right body style. The smaller Stude's don't interest me. 

[Grimy]

On 9/20/2022 at 3:49 PM, Buffalowed Bill said:

All of what Gary says is true plus a great deal more. As a very good friend, noted restorer and a PA owner, said one day when we were discussing the subject. One company buys the other (Studebaker bought PA)-six months later there are new models for both in the showrooms. Both cars resemble one another, and no other American marque, but both cars look like the offerings of one of the company's 1928 models, and have no resemblance to the other company's 1928 models. No 1928 PA parts or technology transitioned into the 1929 PA. To put it bluntly no car company could do the engineering required, put a new model into production, and get it into the showroom in 6 months. Not then, not now, not ever.

As I recall, the sales transaction whereby Stude bought Pierce occurred in June 1928, yet within a couple of months both companies had their 1929 models on the market.  Moreover, Pierce had a policy of aging their castings (blocks and heads, the blocks are dated) for one year before machining, and the Pierce 8 was new for 1929.  I infer that the two companies were collaborating (at least) on at least the engines, but probably the bodies and other components as well, long before the official transaction.

 

BTW Pierce 8-spline axles used 1929-30 were also used by Stude in at least the President through 1931.  (They tend to break)

[edinmass]

Seems fairly certain there was collaborative efforts of the design before the merger. Since Pierce was tiny, and Stude was medium size, the joint effort made sense. Pierce Arrow fenders from the 20’s to the end were made by Mullins Stamping Company. Think Mullins Trailers, kitchen cabinets, and metal boats. Simply put by the mid 20’s sub let suppliers made sense……… Kelsey Hayes wheels were just about the only thing left by 1932…….no one complains that all the car companies used the same supplier. Steering boxes, rear differentials, frames, brakes, spindles, shocks were almost all outsourced by 90 percent of the manufacturers. Hell, Duesenberg designed their own engines and had Lycoming build them. Yes, I know who owned them also, but they sold to other manufacturers also. Cadillac & Cole had V-8’s designed by Northway………..as did others. Toss in Buda, Continental, Hercules, Wisconsin, the list is endless. Think Cadillac, Buick, Chevy, Pierce, Packard, or Auburn made their own trim and door handles……think again, a devision of GM designed, and manufactured them. The famous Pierce Arrow Archer was done at General Motors, they had the talent, and needed the outside work……just like everyone else.

[Buffalowed Bill]

To understand the genesis of the family of engines that became the backbone of the company's successes during the late 20's and early 30's, one has to go back to 1926 when Studebaker hired Delmar "Barney" Roos as head of engineering. I'm not going to delve too deeply into his accomplishments, which were many, but he already had two straight eight engines to his credit, one for Locomobile, and one for Marmon.

 

Regardless of the missteps that Studebaker made throughout it's history, it had to be doing somethings right to have survived as long as they did. The hiring of Roos ushered Studebaker into a period of change, which eventually virtually all of the industry would follow. Studebaker was not the first with a straight eight, but they got the message early and got it right. Had they failed or had some of the other independent car manufactures failed the whole history of what is referred to as "The Classic Era" might have looked very different. The collaboration between Roos and his chief of engine design Karl Wise has to stand out as a major ingredient to the company's survival. Wise of course needs little introduction because of his design of the Pierce V12. 

 

Please excuse me for hijacking the thread, but Rusty did open the door with his question.

[Den41Buick]

Well after years of searching and driving several Buicks, PierceArrows and Packards, I found myself looking at a car slightly outside of the years I was originally looking at. The Buick 90 series proved to be elusive. The Pierce-Arrows I looked at were all beautiful cars, but a Packard stood out above the rest. The reason for this status was the fact that the car has been in the same family for 70 years. Included are maintenance records as well as the condition of the car as evidenced by the condition of the paint, interior and engine. Oh and it was fun to drive as well.

 

My new car...1937 Packard Super 8 Formal Sedan

 

 

[Rusty_OToole]

I'm glad you found a car you love and hope you have some nice drives in it. It is certainly an impressive car but I must say, fun to drive is not the first phrase that jumps to mind. To each his own and best wishes to you.

[Rusty_OToole]

On 9/22/2022 at 7:47 AM, edinmass said:

Having actually rebuilt examples of both Stude(President) and Pierce engines, they are related cousins. Probably second cousins. Having driven both of them also, a Stude is similar to an Auburn in build quality. Simply put, a Pierce will run circles around the Stude........displacement then and today are still kings of the road. Both are fine automobiles. They are apples and oranges. That said, the Pierce is a MUCH better road car. The original price proves it. I would own a Stude President if I cam across the right body style. The smaller Stude's don't interest me. 

Cousins related by divorce?

[lump]

1 hour ago, Den41Buick said:

Well after years of searching and driving several Buicks, PierceArrows and Packards, I found myself looking at a car slightly outside of the years I was originally looking at. The Buick 90 series proved to be elusive. The Pierce-Arrows I looked at were all beautiful cars, but a Packard stood out above the rest. The reason for this status was the fact that the car has been in the same family for 70 years. Included are maintenance records as well as the condition of the car as evidenced by the condition of the paint, interior and engine. Oh and it was fun to drive as well.

 

My new car...1937 Packard Super 8 Formal Sedan

 

 

CONGRATULATIONS, DEN41! Glad to see you found one that you love. You know, one thing I thought of while reading this very interesting thread is that INDIVIDUAL cars make natural exceptions to the concept of, "...which brand/model/year car is 'better.'" My dad once bought a 1950 Hudson Commodore 6 from the estate of a gentleman, and after all the dust and dirt was cleaned from it, that car was immaculate! And it drove like a dream. I don't know what the mileage was, but it was quite low. After Dad removed the aftermarket seatcovers, the interior was perfect. So my point is, that a car in that kind of condition might often be a better choice than a more preferable model in a lesser condition. Cheers to you! 

[31nash880]

Just read this thread and found it quite interesting. Congrats Den41Buick on a beautiful car.

I have a couple questions to ask yet.

Brand of cars was discussed along with engine size and gearing.

What are some qualities that made the best differences between high and low priced car? 

Brakes: mech or hydraulic 

Wheels/ tires: wood, steel,tall,short

Weight

Additional items like self oiling suspension. 

Automatic shutters on front of grill.

I own a 1931 Nash 880.

Have never driven or even been in another prewar car. So I have no personal comparison.

Edited December 13, 2022 by 31nash880
Add info (see edit history)

[Buick35]

On 9/11/2022 at 11:19 PM, Marty Roth said:

Mr. Bartlett is correct, of course, but then the Auburn would tend to be a bit pricey. Some of the others also fall into that category.

A reasonable option might be a 1934 Buick. With independent front suspension, straight eight engine, power brakes, pretty good parts availability, great club support, and dynamite looks, they are also a fantastic Road Car. Ask me how I know. We toured our 50 series 1934 Buick for a dozen years.

That's good to know because I have a 35 buick,only bad thing is its a 40 series with a 4:33 rear end. I know I could get an overdrive but not sure I want to.

[alsancle]

8 hours ago, 31nash880 said:

Just read this thread and found it quite interesting. Congrats Den41Buick on a beautiful car.

I have a couple questions to ask yet.

Brand of cars was discussed along with engine size and gearing.

What are some qualities that made the best differences between high and low priced car? 

Brakes: mech or hydraulic 

Wheels/ tires: wood, steel,tall,short

Weight

Additional items like self oiling suspension. 

Automatic shutters on front of grill.

I own a 1931 Nash 880.

Have never driven or even been in another prewar car. So I have no personal comparison.

The biggest differences between high-end cars and low end cars was the following:

 

1. Power.
2. Size (usually)

3. Build quality.

4. Materials.

5. Style (not always)

The difference between a $20,000 Rolls-Royce in 1931 and an $800 pick your brand lower price car was the same difference between Mount Everest and an ant hill.

 

 

[58L-Y8]

Den41Buick:

Congratulations, you bought yourself one fine motorcar!  Thanks too for posing the original question, it generated a lot of interesting discussions.

Steve

[Den41Buick]

Arrival day pictures. Couldn’t be happier. 

[edinmass]

Congratulations on buying a very fine automobile. Please……never ever haul a car in a small trailer like that backwards.  It’s a disaster waiting to happen.

 

I expect you will have a lifetime of enjoyment with that machine. They are fantastic drivers and seldom change hands. It’s almost like driving a modern car………..I’m certain you will be smiling for days. Enjoy! Ed