A visit with a Pierce Arrow Guru.

[Dandy Dave]

So I took a little trip with some friends and ended up here. Rumer has it Ed Minnie (edinmass) use to be a regular in the shop but he flew the coupe and went south. We dropped off a 1933 Pierce Arrow that needs some fine tuning. John is the man to see to get the carburetor to run on this modern fuel and other finer points on a Pierce. I found that we speak the same language as mechanics and machinists. Had a good time rubbing elbows. Dandy Dave.

   

[Larry Schramm]

I've been there.  Neat place!

[JamesR]

The dictionary could take out the definition of "beautiful" and put a picture of that car in its place.

[edinmass]

The building is a 1922 Moon car dealership. It became a Chevy dealership, then just before the war a candle pin bowling alley. It remained a bowling alley till the mid 70's when it became a motorcycle dealership that we ran selling Kawasaki, Hodaka, Ossa, Rokon, Rupp, Snow Jet, and others. It became our old car shop in 1986 and John and I shared the building until just last month. After 30 years in that location it's now his. It's the back of the building in the photo. It IS the house of Pierce Arrow. 👍

 

The building is in Indian Orchard Mass, a neighborhood of Springfield. It's where the Indian Motorcycle was first developed........AKA "Indian" and the factory plumb color on the motorcycles is the town's color. It's about three miles from the Springfield Rolls plant. 

Edited August 24, 2021 by edinmass (see edit history)

[58L-Y8]

Ed:

Do you have any photos of it when it was a Moon dealership?

Steve

[Dandy Dave]

So hope it is OK to post a photo of this sign. I'm not advertising. Yes. For all things Pierce Arrow be there or be square. Thanks for the history lesson Ed. I saw some electrical boxes with numbers on them just inside of where the overhead door went up. I assume those were part of the bowling alley lane equipment? Dandy Dave! 

 

[lump]

I've got family in Springfield, Mass, and I go there once or twice per year. I would love to see the place. I wonder if that might be ok, with some advance notice? Don't want to be a bother, or slow down their productivity. 

[edinmass]

It's ok to visit....just contact me. Ed

 

 

Productivity? Not in pre war car repairs and restoration.......things move at a glacial speed.

Edited August 24, 2021 by edinmass (see edit history)

[edinmass]

1 hour ago, 58L-Y8 said:

Ed:

Do you have any photos of it when it was a Moon dealership?

Steve

 

No, wish I did. We had it in the family for 55 years.

[1935Packard]

Spectacular Pierce!  Just awesome.

[edinmass]

53 minutes ago, 1935Packard said:

Spectacular Pierce!  Just awesome.

 

It’s “ok” if you like word class CCCA cars. Owned by a true car collector and historian. His focus is New York State cars..........as you can see, he has great taste!

[Joe Cocuzza]

MAYBE, and I mean MAYBE, my 1930 PA will eventually wind up here, too.

Joe

[edinmass]

It’s funny looking at this thread, and the building. That building is where I spent the majority of my off hours the last 47 years.......it’s the most consistent building/place I have ever experienced in my lifetime. Now I have no connection with it anymore. Strange sensation.........such is life.

[edinmass]

Just now, Joe Cocuzza said:

MAYBE, and I mean MAYBE, my 1930 PA will eventually wind up here, too.

Joe

It’s certain you will visit.......most Pierce people do. Over the years we have had countless visitors, events, and most importantly........years of fun in that place. Much of the fun was hard work. Very hard work. It didn’t kill us, and sure opened doors that we could have never imagined. If the walls could talk..........

[TTR]

Is this guy "John" known for rebuilding, among others, L29 steering gear-column assemblies with all new (but modernized) internals ?

[edinmass]

2 hours ago, TTR said:

Is this guy "John" known for rebuilding, among others, L29 steering gear-column assemblies with all new (but modernized) internals ?

Yes, we did the Gemmer 215 boxes and made new worms. Also changed the ratio to make them easier to turn. We did left and right hand drive units. Probably have done 60 or more boxes by now. Worms are no longer made, but we have parts on hand and some used worms. They fit Pierce, Stude, Cord, Stutz, Jordan, and a few others.

[yachtflame]

I’ve been there numerous times. John and Ed have been working and playing together for sooo long, they act like an old married couple. Both explaining to me how the other doesn’t know s#*+. Funny thing though is that each of these guys are a very deep well of knowledge on antique cars. Both have pulled my sorry ass out of major dilemmas several times. 
 As long as Ed is in Florida fighting the Fla. virus, it’d be a great time to visit the shop! 😆
 

 

[TTR]

22 hours ago, edinmass said:

Yes, we did the Gemmer 215 boxes and made new worms. Also changed the ratio to make them easier to turn. We did left and right hand drive units. Probably have done 60 or more boxes by now. Worms are no longer made, but we have parts on hand and some used worms. They fit Pierce, Stude, Cord, Stutz, Jordan, and a few others.

OK.
I sent out one few years ago and, with exception of return shipping packing, was very pleased. 👍

 

 

Edited August 26, 2021 by TTR (see edit history)

[mike6024]

The Moon Garage Motor Sales Springfield Ma (1922)

 

[mike6024]

Is this the same place?

 

 

MOON – 1905 thru 1929 Moon Motor Car Co. St. Louis, MO
City Garage S. 4th St. and E. Jackson St. – ’10
Springfield Garage Co. 104-106-108 E. Washington St. – ’11, ’12
Springfield Auto Sales Co. 416-418-420-422-424 S. 4th St. – ’12, ’12M
Johannes Bros. 3rd and Cook St. – ’16, ’17M
Moon Motor Sales Co. 216-218-220 S. 4th St. – ’19 (216-218, 218-222), 20, ’20M
Abe Barker Co. 329-331 E. Jefferson St. (N. 4th St. & E. Jefferson St.) – ’20
C. E. Whitehurst 7th and Adams St.) – ’21, ’22, ’23, __, ’24M
Whitehurst Auto Sales, 631 E. Adams St. 7th & Adams St. – ’22, ’22M
The Sanders Garage 920 W. Laurel Street – ’24, ’24M
J. B. Harris 315-317 E. Washington St. – ’24 (315), ’25 (315)
C. R. Brandon 724 E. Monroe St. – ’26, ’27, ’28

 

 

Edited August 25, 2021 by mike6024 (see edit history)

[1935Packard]

3 hours ago, mike6024 said:

The Moon Garage Motor Sales Springfield Ma (1922)

 

 

I think that's a different building -- 1095 State Street in Springfield, a few miles away.  Via google maps today: 

 

Edited August 25, 2021 by 1935Packard (see edit history)

[edinmass]

3 hours ago, mike6024 said:

The Moon Garage Motor Sales Springfield Ma (1922)

 

 

Our building is very similar to this one. Our town has its own zip code, and thus the ad must say Indian Orchard. 

Edited August 25, 2021 by edinmass (see edit history)

[58L-Y8]

Now that we know who is doing Pierce-Arrow parts and service in Indian Orchard, MA, who in Springfield is doing the same for Moon?

[edinmass]

35 minutes ago, 58L-Y8 said:

Now that we know who is doing Pierce-Arrow parts and service in Indian Orchard, MA, who in Springfield is doing the same for Moon?

 

 

No idea.......But the Pierce Arrow building became a Chevy dealership from after the war into the 80's............the neighborhood became so bad I haven't seen it for thirty years and thus I don't know if it is still standing.

[Dandy Dave]

11 hours ago, yachtflame said:

I’ve been there numerous times. John and Ed have been working and playing together for sooo long, they act like an old married couple. Both explaining to me how the other doesn’t know s#*+. Funny thing though is that each of these guys are a very deep well of knowledge on antique cars. Both have pulled my sorry ass out of major dilemmas several times. 
 As long as Ed is in Florida fighting the Fla. virus, it’d be a great time to visit the shop! 😆
 

 

I heard though the grape vine that John and Ed knew each other since High School. Rumer has it they were friendly competitors even back then. 😉 Dandy Dave!  

[trimacar]

Been there too, John rebuilt carb and fuel pump on my 31 phaeton.  MAN, did it make a difference in car performance. He changes jet size, may do some other tricks, but well worth doing.

 

Ed, interesting to hear about the building and your connection to it.

[Dandy Dave]

25 minutes ago, trimacar said:

Been there too, John rebuilt carb and fuel pump on my 31 phaeton.  MAN, did it make a difference in car performance. He changes jet size, may do some other tricks, but well worth doing.

 

Ed, interesting to hear about the building and your connection to it.

Yes, That is why the 1933 V-12 Pierce is there. There is no sense in me trying to ream out jets on a trial and error basis if John already has it figured out. I've done it in the past on some old tractors and construction equipment but with those I was also able to adjust the main jet also to rich or lean. On these carburetors the main jets are limited by size alone and no way to lean them out if they are reamed to big. If too big it will run rich and then the jets would need to be replaced with smaller ones. Parts just aren't around the corner. Best to just send it to the man who has been there and done that and knows the correct size that works best with modern fuel. 

Edited August 25, 2021 by Dandy Dave (see edit history)

[SC38dls]

129 main st Indian Orchard 

[Walt G]

SO nice to read here that there are people/collectors /enthusiasts that sincerely appreciate the skills of talented and learned people who are there to solve or restore the 90+ year old used cars we cherish. What would we all do if they weren't around? I used to do the majority of the work o my cars - with the help of friends older then me that had the experience and knowledge to point me in the right direction or assist while I and when I wanted to do something ( like straighten the chassis that was diamond shaped on the 1931 Plymouth model PA sedan I had as my first car (when I was 15-17 years old) . They are all long gone and now age combined with a few health hiccups has diminished my activity - not to mention the past several years of pandemic, and the heat, humidity and rain here on long island. Just be happy there are people around who can skillfully keep these old machines on the road for us. TELL THEM SO.

WG

[SC38dls]

1 minute ago, Walt G said:

SO nice to read here that there are people/collectors /enthusiasts that sincerely appreciate the skills of talented and learned people who are there to solve or restore the 90+ year old used cars we cherish. What would we all do if they weren't around? I used to do the majority of the work o my cars - with the help of friends older then me that had the experience and knowledge to point me in the right direction or assist while I and when I wanted to do something ( like straighten the chassis that was diamond shaped on the 1931 Plymouth model PA sedan I had as my first car (when I was 15-17 years old) . They are all long gone and now age combined with a few health hiccups has diminished my activity - not to mention the past several years of pandemic, and the heat, humidity and rain here on long island. Just be happy there are people around who can skillfully keep these old machines on the road for us. TELL THEM SO.

WG

Walt- well said but today we older guys are even luckier- we have some very good younger guys that are decent enough to share their skills and knowledge. The younger generation is not all bad and only into their electronic toys, some have great toys like old cars to work on, play with and drive the wheels off like Ed. He didn't hesitate to help me and then take time to show us around at a show.  Maybe I'm just lucky but I've met a few young guys like that.

dave s 

[Dandy Dave]

On 8/24/2021 at 5:12 PM, Joe Cocuzza said:

MAYBE, and I mean MAYBE, my 1930 PA will eventually wind up here, too.

Joe

If nothing else, at least have John go though your carburetor. The gasoline from the 1920's and 1930's was a lot different than it is today. It had a lower octane back then. It was around 60. Today the lowest Octane is at least 87 for the cheap stuff around here anyway. Around here the better gas is rated at at least 92. Lower Octane fuel burned a little faster and thus caused an ignition knock. That is why our early cars had a spark advance and retard lever. Even if are able to get the non alcoholic gasoline it is still not like the fuel of the 1920's and 1930's. This reminds me of a sign that was at our local Gulf Station. Back when I was young and riding a bicycle and had the get the tube patched from time to time. Oh the days of that, "Good Gulf No-Nox Gasoline." Dandy Dave! 

 

 

Edited August 26, 2021 by Dandy Dave (see edit history)

[TAKerry]

Dave, I was only 4 when that commercial came out but I do remember it.  There was a local old timer HD expert. I was on my way home one evening and we was sitting on the side of the road with his motorcycle. I had to stop and see what help he needed. He said he just filled up and it was bad gas. Was complaining about how the 'new' gas was different than 'old' gas which was causing problems. I never really thought about gas being different until then.