What does the term "Cores for Restoring" mean?

[NewbieSlashWannabe]

I'm essentially brand new to mechanics and I'd like to learn a little more so I started looking around for some beater parts to stick together. While looking at engines and transmissions I kept seeing the term "core for restoring" or "this is a core".

 

So, my question is: what do the sellers mean by "core for restoring" would it be an engine or tranny I can use in my first fit-together project? or does it mean it's not suitable? (and, why not).

 

For clarification:

• I'm simply looking for older Ford and chev parts to piece together a couple of older pickups from parts,
• I'm aware I can find whole trucks to play with, but that's not what I want, I want to piece together these vehicles for my own entertainment and learning,
• I'm not looking for an easy way out, I want to get my hands dirty and scarf my knuckles.

 

Thank you for any assistance.

 

[TerryB]

Usually a core is something in need of rebuilding. At one time if your starter or generator was bad you could buy a rebuilt one at the parts store and you would pay a “core” charge like $10 extra until you returned your old part so it could be rebuilt by the company whose product you just purchased.  If you returned your old one you got the $10 back, if not the parts store kept your money.  You can’t be in the rebuilt business unless you have a “core” to start from.

[AL1630]

Generally it means a non-working part that could be rebuilt. For example, a 'core' fuel pump would be one that leaks gas, doesn't work, etc. but could be put back in service after a rebuild. A core engine is one that's all worn out and may or may not run, but could (probably) be rebuilt and used again.

Edited June 7, 2021 by AL1630 (see edit history)

[NewbieSlashWannabe]

Thank you, both helpful explanations which have elucidated the "core" concept. Therefore, given I'm only just learning to locate, select, and put together parts, I'd probably want to simply avoid any parts requiring repair or rebuilding and save that level for a next step. I figure I'd learn to put the puzzle pieces together before diving deeper.

[joe_padavano]

What sellers mean by "core for restoring" is that this part was too far gone for them, but maybe they can foist it off on some unsuspecting buyer.

[NewbieSlashWannabe]

Thanks Joe, I guess that's the [read between the lines] aspect, eh?!

[hook]

It also means sometimes that the seller doesn't know what condition it's in, having not tested it, and doesn't want to infer that the part is good or bad. Kind like a cop out.  

[joe_padavano]

1 hour ago, hook said:

It also means sometimes that the seller doesn't know what condition it's in, having not tested it, and doesn't want to infer that the part is good or bad. Kind like a cop out.  

 

Like the ads that say  "...appears to be NOS...", "...told it was rebuilt...", and the ever popular "...ran when parked...".

[hook]

2 minutes ago, joe_padavano said:

 

Like the ads that say  "...appears to be NOS...", "...told it was rebuilt...", and the ever popular "...ran when parked...".

Ran when parked! Of course that was before the engine was removed and the 2 foot diameter tree was placed there........

[Zimm63]

48 minutes ago, hook said:

Ran when parked! Of course that was before the engine was removed and the 2 foot diameter tree was placed there........

 

 

C'mon now, getting those trees in there is a lot of work.  Worth big $$.

 

[RansomEli]

If I can offer some advice, your best bet would be to work with 70's-80's Chevy 350 V8s. You can still find them in junk yards for cheap prices ($300 for a complete engine). There are plenty of YouTube videos to help you learn, replacement parts are cheap, and machine shop work is available anywhere. Most importantly, if you really screw up you haven't wasted much money. 

 

3-speed manual transmissions are cheap learning experience, too

 

You can just work with an engine or transmission at first - it won't take much space in your garage.

 

1970-80 Chevy/GMC trucks and parts are still around in junk yards, although prices for complete vehicles are climbing. Get yourself a truck needing lots of work and you'll have a wonderful, frustrating, enjoyable time. 

 

And keep us informed.

[TerryB]

1 hour ago, Zimm63 said:

 

 

C'mon now, getting those trees in there is a lot of work.  Worth big $$.

 

That so you have a ready made source for wood in the rotted out body.

[Bloo]

As previously mentioned, cores are a starting point for rebuilding. The word "core" comes from exchange programs for parts at auto parts stores where there would be a "core charge" on top of the price of the rebuilt part you buy that would be refunded to you when you returned your old broken part to the store. They would then send it off to the rebuilder.

 

The quality of the parts from these exchange programs varied wildly even in the beginning. Some were fine. By the 1990s they had become a really bad joke. Today when restoring a car, the owner will often find that he has some part that is incorrect. Close enough to work, but not close enough in appearance for a restoration. Or, he finds himself with a part that is so damaged from the "rebuild" process that no one can fix it. Often both of these things are true.

 

So, armed with information about what the correct part looks like, and what numbers might be stamped, cast, or painted on it, the owner heads off to Ebay to buy a "core" that is the correct part, and in good enough shape to rebuild. Then he either does, or hires out to a competent restorer, the quality rebuild that should have been done in the first place.

 

Some guys providing cores may be "copping out" on the condition just to get rid of some junk, while others are intentionally providing a service to people who are looking for good correct rebuildable cores. In either case it is up to the buyer to correctly identify what he is buying from the pictures provided. Often sellers have no idea what they are selling and an overwhelming majority of the descriptions on Ebay are missing critical information or just plain wrong.

 

 

Edited June 7, 2021 by Bloo (see edit history)

[NewbieSlashWannabe]

4 hours ago, joe_padavano said:

 

Like the ads that say  "...appears to be NOS...", "...told it was rebuilt...", and the ever popular "...ran when parked...".

I assume NOS refers to new, old stock?

 

It looks like I'm going to need an automotive terminology course 😉

[JACK M]

Just now, NewbieSlashWannabe said:

It looks like I'm going to need an automotive terminology course 😉

 

Wait until you hear the definitions of terms like like "classic" "original restored" "one owner" and a few more that seem to bring banter on here.

 

[joe_padavano]

5 minutes ago, NewbieSlashWannabe said:

I assume NOS refers to new, old stock?

 

Yes, also sometimes referred to as New Original Stock, meaning replacement parts made for the dealer's parts department by the OEM when the car was new.

[NewbieSlashWannabe]

4 hours ago, hook said:

Ran when parked! Of course that was before the engine was removed and the 2 foot diameter tree was placed there........

I've seen that numerous times; I naïvely assumed the sellers were ignorant of the item's condition, but clearly there could be a situation whereby a seller allays responsibility of knowledge of an item's condition using the caveat "ran when parked".

 

This discussion certainly helps awaken the cautionary tin-foilist within me. As an idealist, I'll need to learn to carefully discern fact from fallacy instead of blindly trusting - my pat position.

 

[NewbieSlashWannabe]

10 minutes ago, JACK M said:

 

Wait until you hear the definitions of terms like like "classic" "original restored" "one owner" and a few more that seem to bring banter on here.

 

Sounds like the start of an in-house urban language dictionary

[JACK M]

Its not an uncommon subject here.

Have fun with it.

[NewbieSlashWannabe]

8 minutes ago, joe_padavano said:

 

Yes, also sometimes referred to as New Original Stock, meaning replacement parts made for the dealer's parts department by the OEM when the car was new.

That [original] makes better sense per the topic. "old" is vague and arbitrary, "original" is more specific and definitive.

[Bloo]

There is no expectation (at least among people in the know) that a NOS part is any good or even rebuildable (It could be a rubber windshield gasket!). When the term is correctly used, it should be an unused original dealer or assembly line part. Similarly, NORS (new old replacement stock) should generally be an old stock replacement made by someone else, like for instance a period NAPA/Echlin replacement for an original GM/Delco voltage regulator.

[Bloo]

2 minutes ago, NewbieSlashWannabe said:

That [original] makes better sense per the topic. "old" is vague and arbitrary, "original" is more specific and definitive.

 

Sadly, the way people use these terms is also vague and arbitrary. Always look closely.

 

[NewbieSlashWannabe]

29 minutes ago, Bloo said:

As mentioned, cores are a starting point for rebuilding. The word "Core" comes from exchange programs for parts at auto parts stores where there would be a "core charge" on top of the price of the rebuilt part you buy that would be refunded to you when you returned your old broken part to the store. They would then send it off to the rebuilder.

 

The quality of the parts from these exchange programs varied wildly even in the beginning. Some were fine. By the 1990s they had become a really bad joke. Today when restoring a car, the owner will often find that he has some part that is incorrect. Close enough to work, but not close enough in appearance for a restoration. Or, he finds himself with a part that is so damaged from the "rebuild" process that no one can fix it. Often both of these things are true.

 

So, armed with information about what the correct part looks like, and what numbers might be stamped, cast, or painted on it, the owner heads off to Ebay to buy a "core" that is the correct part, and in good enough shape to rebuild. Then he either does or (or hires out to a competent restorer) the quality rebuild that should have been done in the first place.

 

Some guys providing cores may be "copping out" on the condition just to get rid of some junk, while others are intentionally providing a service to people who are looking for good correct rebuildable cores. In either case it is up to the buyer to correctly identify what he is buying from the pictures provided. Often sellers have no idea what they are selling and an overwhelming majority of the descriptions on Ebay are missing critical information or just plain wrong.

 

 

I appreciate the caveat and suggestions, both helpful and educational. I have a feeling I'll experience situation such as this first-hand as I progress; I'm expecting an adventure, regardless.

[NewbieSlashWannabe]

Maybe I'm going to need to create a few of my own tongue-in-cheek abbreviated terms, though I've no doubt they may already exist:

RWM: running when manufactured

LMWN: low miles when new

RBES: running before engine seized

 

... feel free to come up with others.

[joe_padavano]

12 minutes ago, Bloo said:

 

Sadly, the way people use these terms is also vague and arbitrary. Always look closely.

 

 

Ever since I crossed to the high side of 60, the term "old" has definitely become vague and arbitrary.

[NewbieSlashWannabe]

5 minutes ago, joe_padavano said:

 

Ever since I crossed to the high side of 60, the term "old" has definitely become vague and arbitrary.

Everything is relative to one's vantage point.

[Peter Gariepy]

At the risk of hijacking this post... at least it wasn't the ever popular method of... 

 

"Coors for restoring!"

[rocketraider]

I wouldn't know. We didn't get Coors here on East Coast till the late 70s. What, you thought "Smokey and the Bandit" was fiction?! That's how we got Coors Banquet if we got it at all! 🍻

 

OP, you'll pick up on old-car-ese terminology quick enough. My hat's off to you for wanting to learn. 

 

Now I'll put me hat back on before I go back to cutting grass. Hot sun on a sparsely covered noggin is no good. Might addlepate me and I do something stupid like buy another old car.🙃

[hook]

3 hours ago, NewbieSlashWannabe said:

Maybe I'm going to need to create a few of my own tongue-in-cheek abbreviated terms, though I've no doubt they may already exist:

RWM: running when manufactured

LMWN: low miles when new

RBES: running before engine seized

 

... feel free to come up with others.

Don't forget the 30/30 guarantee. 30 feet or 30 seconds which ever occurs first. 

[28 Chrysler]

6 hours ago, NewbieSlashWannabe said:

Maybe I'm going to need to create a few of my own tongue-in-cheek abbreviated terms, though I've no doubt they may already exist:

RWM: running when manufactured

LMWN: low miles when new

RBES: running before engine seized

 

... feel free to come up with others.

NEW: Never Ever Works    For all the increasing mileage gizmos

[NewbieSlashWannabe]

6 minutes ago, 28 Chrysler said:

NEW: Never Ever Works    For all the increasing mileage gizmos

MINT: May Induce Night Terrors

[chistech]

Don't forget NORS. New Old Replacement Stock. That means a part usually made by a major auto parts manufacturer for a brand of car. Companies like Doorman or Moog make replacement parts for cars but are not the actual car manufacturer.

[NewbieSlashWannabe]

37 minutes ago, chistech said:

Don't forget NORS. New Old Replacement Stock. That means a part usually made by a major auto parts manufacturer for a brand of car. Companies like Doorman or Moog make replacement parts for cars but are not the actual car manufacturer.

Thank you for the additional information Chistech.

[Restorer32]

And don't fall into the trap of calling 'lever action shocks" as on Packards, "knee action shocks".  Two entirely different things.  Most of the old shocks you see advertised as knee action are in fact lever shocks. One of my many pet peeves.

[Guest]

 There is another use of a CORE charge when it comes to late model trucks.

 

 There is a CORE charge on aluminum fuel tanks.

 I have to cut our the fill cap assembly from the tank and return it to the dealer in order to get my heavy core charge back.

 Not that they are going to re use it, but to make sure that the tank is destroyed in order to prevent further use of it.   🤬

 

 This is a practice on many brand new ( not rebuilt) parts.

 I had never heard of a core charge on brand new oem parts before.

Edited June 9, 2021 by Roger Walling (see edit history)

[rocketraider]

37 minutes ago, Roger Walling said:

 There is another use of a CORE charge when it comes to late model trucks.

 

 There is a CORE charge on aluminum fuel tanks.

 I have to cut our the fill cap assembly from the tank and return it to the dealer in order to get my heavy core charge back.

 Not that they are going to re use it, but to make sure that the tank is destroyed in order to prevent further use of it.   🤬

 

 This is a practice on many brand new ( not rebuilt) parts.

 I had never heard of a core charge on brand new oem parts before.

That makes absolutely no sense, but when zealotes are on a mission to eradicate fossil fuel usage it's not surprising.

 

Is aluminum recycling value really that low?

[Guest]

8 hours ago, rocketraider said:

That makes absolutely no sense, but when zealotes are on a mission to eradicate fossil fuel usage it's not surprising.

 

Is aluminum recycling value really that low?

 Aluminum is up now but the reason that they want you to destroy the tank is so that they then can sell a new tank to someone that would like to buy a used , dented one!

[60FlatTop]

1 hour ago, Roger Walling said:

That makes absolutely no sense, but when zealotes are on a mission to eradicate fossil fuel usage it's not surprising.

On a planet consisting of trillions of tones of carbon and a molten core some inhabitants still believe the fuel is dinosaur and plant parts?

 

Well, at least they aren't throwing young women into volcanoes to stop climate change.

[rocketraider]

What does destroying a usable fuel tank to prevent its reuse have to do with climate change, unless the goal IS to render fossil fueled vehicles unusable? Remember that program a few years back that destroyed a lot of running serviceable vehicles? It had the unintended (or intended, I don't know) consequence of slashing used parts availability.

 

When that happened it occurred to me that recycling might have become a sham.

[Paul Dobbin]

On 6/7/2021 at 8:33 AM, hook said:

Ran when parked! Of course that was before the engine was removed and the 2 foot diameter tree was placed there........

   Once at our county Historical Park, we took the front cross member out of a junked Model A Ford and re-asswmbled it around

   a tree out beside the Village Garage.   It was such a popular place for pictures, we had to put a rail fence around ot to keep kids

   from climbing on it.   

   Some years later a new volunteer at the park cut the tree down, thiking it was improving the display.

   Every body see's art and history differently.