The Wandering White Thread - A Custom 1915 Rare White Finds A Good Home In Florida

[edinmass]

 

Interesting film clip of Teddy riding in a 1917 White........Thanks Orin!

 

https://www.loc.gov/item/mp76000043/

[edinmass]

 

Here is a still from the film.........

 

 

[Cadillac Fan]

Could that be your car?

[edinmass]

1 hour ago, Cadillac Fan said:

Could that be your car?

 

 

I don't think so......It's even possible the car he is in is a 1916 Six Sixty...........I'm guessing they only made a very small handful of the 7 passenger touring cars.........but they built hundreds of 1916 4-45 cars for the national parks..........and they certainly have similar lines. 

[58L-Y8]

Ed:

Just tell anyone who ask, that TR rode in your White, just like all the houses where George Washington slept.   The body appears to have been a Rubay 7 passenger touring.

Steve

[SC38dls]

Unless Covid took away your gift of telling good stories TR riding in your car should be very easy to pull off. Go for it and if you tell it long enough when you’re old and decrepit and want to sell it, some goofy guy at Barrett Jackson will give you or your heirs and extra 50 grand because of it!  
 

Hope you get back to full health asap so you can pick up the stories about the Great White fleet!  
dave s 

[edinmass]

Better Teddy the Bull Moose, than the undesirable (In my eyes.) FDR. My grandparents are turning over in their graves! The “New Deal” was how shall we say it............withheld to prevent the post being sensored.

 

Where’s Al Landon when you need him?  I own his pocket watch......

 

 

Edited January 10, 2022 by edinmass (see edit history)

[SC38dls]

You must be feeling better the stories are already starting. Al’s watch? Sure you do, I suppose it says it’s time for a good cool glass of CR right about now too.  
dave s 

[edinmass]

1 hour ago, SC38dls said:

You must be feeling better the stories are already starting. Al’s watch? Sure you do, I suppose it says it’s time for a good cool glass of CR right about now too.  
dave s 

 

I bought the watch in Boston back in 1986. My father purchased his wife’s diamond watch for my mother, and I went for the pocket watch. I have an Al Landon plate on the front of my 1936 Pierce V-12............

[alsancle]

You might think Ed is a "know it all" with car stuff,  but you are wandering in to his real sweet spot.   

[prewarnut]

What kind of watch? I may be able to give you info if you like. Tonight I just finished servicing and did minor restoration on a Hamilton with an inscription to a guy with the phrase, "from the friends of the EV Company...Hartford, 1904" I looked the guy up in the 1905 city directory and he lived 2 blocks from Pope Manaufacturing and was employed there in the city directory. I believe he was then working for Electric Vehicle, the syndicate Pope and Hiram Maxim and others, after buying the Selden patent, formed when trying to manufacture electric taxis and the like....Anyhow it's neat when history can be verified as you often note.

[prewarnut]

[George K]

Ed 

I was doing some research on wheels / rims. Came across an an interesting entry. Wondering you make of it. White automobiles are hard to triangulate anything on for certain.

[edinmass]

George.....the 1915 White 45 hp had a 25 inch rim, as did the 6-60. My 1915 has 24 inch rims........that don’t match anything published being installed on a White car or truck. The wheels are significantly smaller and lighter than the ones on the 1917 GM chassis (My GM has 27 inch rims, as it should in the list.). It’s only a guess......but I bet the discontinued 30 hp cars from 1914 were probably 24 inch like on mine...........typical of the early car companies “using up what they had left over on hand at the plant.” Rollin White’s grandson has a dozen White cars.......steam and gas. He has never seen ANY White car that used a pressurized gas tank for fuel delivery. According to him, everything was either gravity or vacuum tank. The other 1915 16 Valve Four also has the same fuel system as my car........and a 1915 casting date on the block also.........along with the dual spark plug head, same ignition switch and steering column, steering wheel, ect.........

Edited February 5, 2022 by edinmass (see edit history)

[edinmass]

George.....this tosses in more monkey wrenches into the discussion...........trucks on cars chassis.......just more proof they could build anything anyone would request. In reality, White had the ability, engineers, and WILLINGNESS to do custom work for the same cost as one of their catalog car offerings.........

 

 

 

 

[Walt G]

8 minutes ago, edinmass said:

typical of the early car companies “using up what they had left over on hand at the plant.”

Absolutely, car manufacturers, especially the independent ones ( large or small independence) never threw anything away, it got used up . I have seen and head this in the past 50+ years of research I have done, talking to people who worked in the plants where the cars were built in the WWI to WWII era , from administration level, to test drivers, to guys on the factory floor all noted that there was no "waste" of materials or equipment - EVER.

[edinmass]

 

George......”the story” is the other 1915 16 Valve Four was a “family car” belonging to the White’s. I haven’t had a chance to speak to them in person yet.......but the story following the car since the 50’s appears to credit the car as a White family car since new. Interestingly, some large car companies built “estate trucks” and similar vehicles for the well to do homes so the help could keep things in tip top shape. Buick for five or six years built estate vehicles that are very light trucks on car chassis. Below is a Buick light truck, with a small four in it. They also built milk wagons, and vegetable wagons.

 

 

Edited February 5, 2022 by edinmass (see edit history)

[edinmass]

Here is a 1914 White 30 hp wheel on a roadster. It looks similar but not identical to my 1915. It’s got the same number of spokes in a similar size. Phil and I will have a bunch more to report on the 1915 & 1917 in about a month..........we are just buried here with cars, shows, and events. Family issues for both of us are also crushing right now. And Amelia is rapidly approaching. It never ends..........

 

 

[Walt G]

Perfect example of use of car or truck chassis was the use by and for estates as Ed mentions. The Depot Hack became the station wagon. The "Depot" and Station" referred to was the train station as the train was the primary mode for long distance travel in the era before airlines .Remember that Lindbergh only proved you could make it across the big pond to Europe without disappearing in water in 1927. If a station wagon /depot hack was ordered the manufacturer or body builder would use what ever chassis the owner of the estate wanted! Cantrell Co. here on long island was a huge supplier of this for all the local estates on the north shore on long island from NY City line east. They also supplied major car manufacturers with the woody wagons for shipment to dealerships all over the USA. G.M. had a plant on the Hudson River in Tarrytown , NY that would ship chassis to Cantrell to mount bodies on, if they didn't have chassis they sent them business coupes and Cantrell would cut the bodies off aft of the windshield to then use the rest of the car for their coach work. I have pictures of all this pre war.

Yes, I have to much information, photos, images etc and to little time.......................... probably to much to say as well.

[prewarnut]

Was this ever an original configuration?

 

[George K]

No but it’s a clever use of an early 20hp drivetrain. Beautiful delicate frame rails. Looks like Model T speedster seats and tank.

[edinmass]

If it were priced realistically I would buy it.

 

George, my 1915 car has the same number of spokes as the 1913-1914 30 hp cars……….

[1912Staver]

It's a very nicely done speedster. Said to have history in this configuration back to the late teens. Is it worth $89,500.00 ? Hard to say, todays market is hard to predict. But it is the small HP White from this time period.

[edinmass]

 

It's all about horsepower................no horsepower, no money. The speedster market is funny.......guys are either broke or have unlimited money. There doesn't seem to be a middle road.

[Dandy Dave]

On 2/5/2022 at 2:01 PM, edinmass said:

 

George......”the story” is the other 1915 16 Valve Four was a “family car” belonging to the White’s. I haven’t had a chance to speak to them in person yet.......but the story following the car since the 50’s appears to credit the car as a White family car since new. Interestingly, some large car companies built “estate trucks” and similar vehicles for the well to do homes so the help could keep things in tip top shape. Buick for five or six years built estate vehicles that are very light trucks on car chassis. Below is a Buick light truck, with a small four in it. They also built milk wagons, and vegetable wagons.

 

 

Larry Schramm's truck. I've been in the driver's seat a time or two. Dandy Dave!

[edinmass]

Dave......all the White vehicles are trucks......just the bodies differ! 😝

[edinmass]

 

Here is a clear scan of the combination car/truck units made for large estates. I bought the ad off of ebay. The first version was just a screen shot.

 

 

[PFindlay]

6 hours ago, edinmass said:

Here is a clear scan of the combination car/truck units made for large estates

I saw this one on a garage tour a few years ago.  It came from some sort of resort or camp in New York State.  Maybe the same one shown in the ad?

 

 

 

[edinmass]

That’s a cool truck.....very early. Probably a 1912 or 1913.

[George K]

Ed I also wish this White survived.

[edinmass]

Phil and I are busier than a one armed paper hanger........but we still try and keep everything moving forward. New hoops arrived today for the 15..............34x5 BF Goodrich........I cried all the way to the bank on that one.....and six new tubes also. Three grand gone in a flash. 
 

It’s insanely busy here this week.....HCCA, AACA, and ACD meets all close by.........add in Boca Concours, and Amelia next week.....and countless visitors to the museum.........we haven’t been able to keep up........getting to Amelia is going to be a hat trick.......lots of overtime..........18 hour days, I figure if everything goes perfect.....we have about ten minutes to spare. Rolling out a Big Boy Toy for Amelia.........if your going, please stop and say hello..........We will be in the special coachwork class..........from a small town in Massachuetts. Can’t disclose our car.....but it’s really neat........looking forward to getting on the green. 
 

Its 10:17 pm and I’m just sitting down to dinner......... Bon appétit!

Edited February 25, 2022 by edinmass (see edit history)

[wayne sheldon]

Sounds like fun to me!

[SC38dls]

Wish I could be there as last year was a great time because of your taking time with us and seeing some nice cars. I may try to run down for a day trip if at all possible. Have fun. If I do I will bring the Wofford. 
dave s 

[edinmass]

Unexpected surprise today......the gentleman who sold me the 1915 White drove up to the gate unannounced. He’s been on the road from Wisconsin for weeks and has done over 6000 miles to get here. We took both White’s for a drive. And explained to him how we fixed the shifting on the 15........he was impressed. Got the car’s history first hand.......which is always a plus. We took photos which I will post soon..........we had a wonderful visit, and is staying with Phil and his wife.........they hit it off immediately. Typical car story...........we join the clubs for the cars, but we stay for the friendships.

[edinmass]

Ken and I out for a ride in the 1917.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 27, 2022 by edinmass (see edit history)

[trimacar]

Ed and I did NOT go for a ride in the 1917.  My fault for not being in the right place at the right time!  Shame Ed has had no fun with this car......sheesh!

[SC38dls]

I think Ed always finds a way to have fun with his cars. If not he just sips a little more adult liquid refreshment and it makes things be more fun. 
dave s 

[edinmass]

Lots of car shows in southern Florida this week. We were visited by the curator of the ACD Museum.......the well known Brandon Anderson. Took him out to lunch in the 1917 White. 

[edinmass]

While I pride my cars run better than most, and are sorted and reliable.......the tubes today can't be trusted...........fortunately we were 100 yards from the shop.......... good old Phil came to the rescue. 👍

 

The initial report was the tire was only flat on the bottom. Lesson learned.......drive over railroad tracks a bit slower than 45 mph......

 

 

Edited February 28, 2022 by edinmass (see edit history)

[trimacar]

1 hour ago, edinmass said:

The initial report was the tire was only flat on the bottom.

When I bought the 1947 Davis, the tires were so petrified that even off the car, the flat space showed.  One of my cousins had a tire shop, he took one of them and put it in the display window with the petrified flat spot on the top, with a sign  "Flats aren't ALWAYS just on the bottom!"