Period images to relieve some of the stress

[Bob Jacobsen]

On 7/11/2021 at 7:41 PM, K8096 said:

A happy owner with his new 1929 Stutz in San Francisco 

 

 

Wow - the same architect must have designed the Pierce-Arrow building (shown here under construction circa 1914) in San Francisco (still can read the "Pierce-Arrow" chiseled in the masonry at the top):

 

[alextheantiqueautoguy]

On 3/16/2020 at 6:40 PM, Gunsmoke said:

PART 3: L'Automobile et le Tourisme: Oct 04 1930;  I've never seen one of these, not sure if any were built. Illustration of a Raincey circa 1899, the whole drive-train turns with the front steering, maybe an early similarity to the Selden Patent but a bit more sophisticated looking.

A great illustration of a de Riancey voiturette but the Selden car should be taken for what it became, a fraud on the American public. In 1899 no one in France had heard of the Selden vehicle or the Selden Patent. After all, it was not until 1899 that efforts to collect patent fees from US automakers were made. Since no Selden vehicle had been  made at that point, the whole idea was just a drawing on an unfinished patent. The actual vehicle was cobbled together after 1900 using little of Selden's powerplant. 

On the other hand, the de Riancey vehicle decends from the French and German avant moteur. It was the intention of some early European engine makers to replace all of the horse-related towing gear with an axle-engine combination; that way the consumer would not have to replace the entire wagon. The idea never really caught on as the money-saving device it might have been. 

In retrospect, this proves that the requirements of the horse-drawn wagon and the requirements of the automobile are vastly different. The avant moteur was seen on some US early trucks, the Barrows cars and the early US urban taxis. Personally, I like the 1895 Barrows, the motor and batteries hang out front, so heavy that it probably had to be steered by the rear wheels.

[HK500]

Al Jolson Drives an American Austin somewhere in Los Angeles

[HK500]

And an early straight 8 Packard Phaeton - looks like with some sort of tonneau windshield in the back - up on the Richfield gas station lift, Los Angeles,  sometime in the 20's.

[keiser31]

16 hours ago, nzcarnerd said:

From the AACA facebook page. Posted by Bob Westiniky. His dad behind the wheel and his uncle holding the rear door. 

 

The car - a 1931 Chrysler??

 

 

 

1931 or 1932 Chrysler.

[twin6]

2 hours ago, HK500 said:

And an early straight 8 Packard Phaeton - looks like with some sort of tonneau windshield in the back - up on the Richfield gas station lift, Los Angeles,  sometime in the 20's.

Sport model, 2nd series, cool!

[nzcarnerd]

From a facebook page. Only info is what is on the photo - 

 

[nzcarnerd]

Another one from facebook. Rhyolite, Nevada, August 1907.

 

From left to right - maybe - White steamer, Locomobile, Pope-Hartford??

 

An EDIT to this one - Seems the from left to right it is circa 1906 Thomas, circa 1906-07 Apperson and circa 1906 Pope-Toledo. And another Apperson in the background.

 

[nzcarnerd]

A Regal Underslung in Forest Park, St Louis.

 

[nzcarnerd]

Five photos of a 1929 Chrysler Imperial Locke body roadster from the early 1960s, through several owners,  to the last one, a photo I took at the International vintage car rally in Rotorua New Zealand in 1980.

 

The car's history prior to the 1950s is unknown.

 

I believe the car has gone overseas but its whereabouts is unknown.

 

1961

 

late 1960s

 

1980.

[jukejunkie1015]

On 7/24/2021 at 8:51 AM, keiser31 said:

1931 or 1932 Chrysler. 

1931 CD-8, The 1932 CP-8 had the rear tail light attached to the fender and not the bumper supports

Edited July 26, 2021 by jukejunkie1015 (see edit history)

[twin6]

19 hours ago, nzcarnerd said:

Another one from facebook. Rhyolite, Nevada, August 1907.

 

From left to right - maybe - White steamer, Locomobile, Pope-Hartford??

 

Far left looks like an early Thomas.

 

[ericmac]

On 7/25/2021 at 9:41 PM, nzcarnerd said:

Five photos of a 1929 Chrysler Imperial Locke body roadster from the early 1960s, through several owners,  to the last one, a photo I took at the International vintage car rally in Rotorua New Zealand in 1980.

 

The car's history prior to the 1950s is unknown.

 

I believe the car has gone overseas but its whereabouts is unknown.

 

1961

 

late 1960s

 

1980.

Oddly enough,  every time someone decided to "improve " the paint the look of the car suffered. In this case the car deteriorated in appearance from a real class act to downright tacky. What a difference paint can make. 

[LCK81403]

Regarding the 1929 Chrysler roadster.  Is it fitted was a version of a second windshield similar to what is found on a dual-cowl?  This photo is the only instance that I have seen of what appears to be a windshield / windscreen for occupants of a rumble seat.  How and where is it stored, how is it supported; support arms of any sort are not observable in the photo.

 

Several comments have been made about the various paint schemes on this vehicle.  Agreed, so what color/colors of paint would look good?  What about the wide-white wall tires?  Regardless of the paint the wide-whites seem to overpower the visual presentation of the car overall.  The first thing I see is the white-whites, then I need to ignore the tires and view the car and that is wrong.  It does seem that plain black wall tires are more complementary for this car.

[hddennis]

I could be wrong as I too have never seen this windshield variation. To my eye it appears that the rumble lid is short and when closed only extends to the door jam of the right door. The windshield looks like it would fold down and close the space from the door jam forward.

 

Howard Dennis

[LCK81403]

Howard, it does appear that you are correct.  The rumble lid does look like it is short and the windscreen could be on a hinge and mate with the lid in collapsed configuration.  Hmmm, kind of wonder if it rattled?

[LCK81403]

Here is an article in Popular Science Monthly, May, 1938, page 34.

 

"Rubber Spokes Give Bounce to Airless Safety Tires

 

Hard wood, embedded in rubber, forms the rim of a new safety tire invented by J. V. Martin of Garden City, N. Y.  Said to be more resilient and lighter than pneumatic types, the safety tire has hoops of hickory incased in rubber and fitted with criss-cross spokes of ribbed rubber.  Puncture proof and blowout-proof, the airless tires absorbed practically all vertical movement when a springless test car drove over four-inch blocks strung along a concrete road in a recent trial, it is claimed."

 

The airless tire of 1938, shown in the magazine photograph, appears to be a finished product at that point in time.  Having been associated with Research, Development, Testing and Evaulation (RDT&E) for many years I know that a finished and marketable product had a number of R-D-and T versions and underwent a number of evaluation tests (and failures) before reaching the market.  Some good inventions are too ahead of their time and are not marketable.  In the case of the airless tire produced by Mr. Martin, it has been involved in renewed testing of materials and markets into the 2000s.

 

Although no documentation has yet been found regarding airless tire prototypes and testing prior to 1938, a photo of such a tire hull or husk was presented earlier in this forum.  A photo of that particular tire clearly shows an interwoven husk of what appears to be metal hoops underlying a heavy rubber tread that is fitted over a standard rubber tire.  The underlying rubber tire may or may not be inflated, but regardless of inflation the pneumatic tire hull is supported by the interlocked wire hoops.  The wire hoops appear to interlock much like middle-ages chainmail armor.

 

A number of tire manufacturers today continue to work with the airless tire technology, including Michelin, Bridgestone, Goodyear and others.  Modern rubber compounds, chemistry, synthetic materials and fibers greatly improve on the 1930s "hickory hoops" of wood encased in rubber.  Airless tires are produced for automobiles, all terrain/utility vehicles, and heavy earth moving vehicles.  Because of a significant savings in weight of airless over pneumatic tires, perhaps one day airless aircraft tires may reduce the dead weight of commercial and military aircraft.

 

 

 

[twin6]

Another serious looking entry for Ed's class at PB.

[oldcarfudd]

That guy's legs would go so far forward, there'd be room for only a single-cylinder engine!

[nzcarnerd]

20 hours ago, LCK81403 said:

Howard, it does appear that you are correct.  The rumble lid does look like it is short and the windscreen could be on a hinge and mate with the lid in collapsed configuration.  Hmmm, kind of wonder if it rattled?

 

Hopefully someone might know where this car is today, and have the opportunity to have a look at its deck lid. You can just see the handle in the 1980 photo and it is not easy to be sure just where it is in relation to the lid.

[LCK81403]

A first showing of a new 1938 Packard - - - with a rear door handle out of alignment.

[LCK81403]

It would be interesting to learn how a Cord in Indiana State Police colors would fair at a judging event.

[hddennis]

On 7/27/2021 at 10:50 AM, LCK81403 said:

Regarding the 1929 Chrysler roadster.  Is it fitted was a version of a second windshield similar to what is found on a dual-cowl?  This photo is the only instance that I have seen of what appears to be a windshield / windscreen for occupants of a rumble seat.  How and where is it stored, how is it supported; support arms of any sort are not observable in the photo.

 

Several comments have been made about the various paint schemes on this vehicle.  Agreed, so what color/colors of paint would look good?  What about the wide-white wall tires?  Regardless of the paint the wide-whites seem to overpower the visual presentation of the car overall.  The first thing I see is the white-whites, then I need to ignore the tires and view the car and that is wrong.  It does seem that plain black wall tires are more complementary for this car.

The more I thought about this the more I knew I had seen something very similar before.  Found this 1947 Triumph this morning.

Howard Dennis

[hddennis]

On 7/28/2021 at 12:03 PM, hddennis said:

The more I thought about this the more I knew I had seen something very similar before.  Found this 1947 Triumph this morning.

Howard Dennis

Ran across this discussion that had this picture. Wonder if Locke put the twin panes in the lid or was it owner modified? This picture shows why it was split panes.   https://forums.aaca.org/topic/291250-how-to-get-in-rumble-seat/

 

Howard Dennis

[auburnal]

On 7/29/2021 at 12:12 AM, nzcarnerd said:

 

Hopefully someone might know where this car is today, and have the opportunity to have a look at its deck lid. You can just see the handle in the 1980 photo and it is not easy to be sure just where it is in relation to the lid.

Hello All I have just been visiting  the site and picked up on the 1929 Chrysler imperial Thread ..This is most interesting as I owned this car from 1977 and I have to admit I was the kiwi who re restored the roadster and chose the Whitewalls and colour scheme which is seen in the 1980 pix, i was very proud of the car then despite some comments as when i purchased her  the lovely body swages were not accentuated  to any real.,effect etc I also was most nostalgic when I saw the the early pix in the 1960,s when the car was painted Maroon as this was the guise I first sited the car in when I was going to High school and lusted after the care ever since not ever thinking that would own it someday. The earlier black and White  pix I had never seen before so thank you to those who posted these . 

when I purchased this car it was the same price as my new house at the time about $17000 as I recall and the car had implement ( harvester) tyres fitted so the New Denmans were a big purchase for me also at the time in old NZ !!

the rear rumble seat lid comprised of a larger main panel and a smaller upper panel which had the original glass inserts fitted to suggest a type of windscreen very similar as suggested to the 1947 Truimph Roadster  .the upper section had adjustable side stays to allow a suitable rake on the front screen when raised , it didnt rattle and had drain channels around the side  the handle was on the larger rumble seat panel which would need to be lifted first as they locked together at the join .

I was never able to find out how this car right hand drive as it was came to be in NZ as there were very few made in this version but the consistent rumour was that the Chrysler had had over 40 owners before myself .

it was resold twice after myself in NZ and i believe it now resides in UK ,

Since reading  this I am going to reach out to last NZ owner whom I still am  able contact and perhaps provide more history , alternativley if the current owner was to read this I would be keen to send images etc of my time with this special car .

This is a great forum and i thank those who have brought this to my notice 

 

Kind Regards Alan Sutton

 

 

[alsancle]

1920 Twin Six with artillery wheels.

 

 

[Walt G]

Note that the spotlight on the windshield frame has the same style rim as the headlamps. By 1920 Packard issued an annual multi page b & w sales catalog illustrating accessories that were on offer for purchase by the Packard factory. PMCC did not make all the accessories themselves but their  team would look at what was being produced and then if deemed worthy they would offer them as official factory equipment.  I have collected a small pile/stack  of factory accessory catalogs from about 1920 to 1941 and it is amazing what could have been purchased and added to the original price of the car. You could have bought a brand new Chevy, Plymouth, or Ford for the cost of a pile of accessories on your Packard.  Add in the general non official accessory supply catalogs , flyers, etc and this would be a multi page article.

[keiser31]

Just to ad some information....

[hddennis]

Thanks John, that really clears things up although I have to take exception with the books assumption that the purpose of the glass is unknown. The picture tells it all, there could be no other purpose.

 

Howard Dennis

[NealH]

1909 Speedwell at the New York branch

[twin6]

[nzcarnerd]

9 hours ago, alsancle said:

1920 Twin Six with artillery wheels.

 

 

 

To me 'artillery wheels' are spoked, usually but not always wooden. 

 

These looks like Disteel disc wheels.

 

That fender mirror looks to be in such a place that the only thing you will see in it is the spotlight - 😉

[nzcarnerd]

The thermal region of New Zealand's central North Island has been a tourist destination since the middle of the 19th century. Here is a 1906 postcard. I doubt the car is identifiable but I have an idea I have seen another photo of what might be the same vehicle somewhere. I just have to find it.

 

 

[nzcarnerd]

This photo was posted on a facebook page by Heather Shoal. In the main group photo are her grandparents holding their children.

 

She asks what is the big car?

 

My first thought was circa 1917 Buick wearing a 'Detroit Weatherproof' top. There is a photo of a very similar car in the book 70 Years of Buick.

 

BUT - I think it might actually be a Studebaker. Radiator shape - rear hubs - etc.

 

I think the other car is a Ford.

 

Found this regarding Detroit Weatherproof. - Detroit Weatherproof Body Co., Weatherproof Body Corp., Model T Truck Body, Ford Cab, All-weather truck cab, Corunna Michigan, Owosso Michigan - CoachBuilt.com

 

 

[Larry Schramm]

2 hours ago, nzcarnerd said:

This photo was posted on a facebook page by Heather Shoal. In the main group photo are her grandparents holding their children.

 

She asks what is the big car?

 

My first thought was circa 1917 Buick wearing a 'Detroit Weatherproof' top. There is a photo of a very similar car in the book 70 Years of Buick.

 

BUT - I think it might actually be a Studebaker. Radiator shape - rear hubs - etc.

 

I think the other car is a Ford.

 

Found this regarding Detroit Weatherproof. - Detroit Weatherproof Body Co., Weatherproof Body Corp., Model T Truck Body, Ford Cab, All-weather truck cab, Corunna Michigan, Owosso Michigan - CoachBuilt.com

 

 

 

I am going to say that neither is a Model T.

[nzcarnerd]

9 hours ago, twin6 said:

 

A 1912 Stearns-Knight apparently - credit to Varun Coutinho - 

 

[twin6]

[LCK81403]

Is that an air vent on the roof, center-rear?  Get rid of the cigar and pipe smoke?

[keiser31]

Yes. Roof vent.

[8E45E]

On 7/30/2021 at 7:18 AM, Walt G said:

Note that the spotlight on the windshield frame has the same style rim as the headlamps. By 1920 Packard issued an annual multi page b & w sales catalog illustrating accessories that were on offer for purchase by the Packard factory. PMCC did not make all the accessories themselves but their  team would look at what was being produced and then if deemed worthy they would offer them as official factory equipment.  I have collected a small pile/stack  of factory accessory catalogs from about 1920 to 1941 and it is amazing what could have been purchased and added to the original price of the car. You could have bought a brand new Chevy, Plymouth, or Ford for the cost of a pile of accessories on your Packard.  Add in the general non official accessory supply catalogs , flyers, etc and this would be a multi page article.

That is interesting about Packard.  Studebaker didn't start offering factory accessories until the 1931 model year, according to Richard Quinn:  Can anyone shed some light on this item? - Studebaker Drivers Club Forum

 

Correct that factory engineers would evaluate each potential accessory, and if worthy, inside purchasing and sales would get involved to assess its marketing viability.  I would imagine most Packard accessories would have a 'Packard' label on it somewhere.

 

Craig