alextheantiqueautoguy

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About alextheantiqueautoguy

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  1. Thanks for your kind notice. This could be a roll up but it is a 1912 model and I haven't found a source for 1912 window cranks. I may even have to edit my first comment to 1914, not 1913 but I'm working on it. Nothing like a fast post to make you scramble to check your sources. Prior to 1914, windows could be raised and lowered by means of a sash that hung inside the door. Effective but clumsy with heavy plate glass windows. Below are photos of the interior of the 1912 48-Six (or the Model K or the Model 36) Limousine. Notice the sash on the door.
  2. (edited) I believe Peerless Motor Car Company will win this debate about the first roll up window. Speaking of changes in the 1914 Peerless Limousines, Cycle and Automobile Trade Journal of September 1, 1913, in an article on page 175 titled “New Peerless Closed Cars” states: "All frames and casements have been eliminated by the use of the Swiss Railway type of window - a heavy plate .glass which moves up and down in a groove. In the side and inner compartment windows are raised and lowered by means of a strap. Those (windows) in the side doors are moved by a special patented device when a handle similar to that on a safe, is turned about." That describes roll up windows, finding a photo of it will be a challenge because of the scaricity of Peerless cars and photos of the interior of Peerless Limousines. This was in the 1914 model year though was functioning by the publication date in 1913. Later references to Peerless cars in 1914 refers to the same system but little detail is given. Perhaps the patent could be accessed...
  3. Yes, it was great and exceedingly rare. One man standing near me asked if I thought it was a Continental engine. I remembered that E.L. Cord added Continental engines to his corporate warehouse and didn't think he would have sold engines to other companies but I was wrong. I think this is a 1929 Model 81-Six Coupe. I'd be very happy to learn if it is not. I like the Stevens-Duryea Model X but what intrigued me the most was the 1914 Stutz that was half covere up.
  4. Jeff, I've been keeping up with your posts, just unable to grab a minute to reply until now. Thanks for your input, especially on the early years of Peerless. I concur with almost everything you've uncovered here. What unstructured time I've had is spent in trying to chase down early Peerless literature. The AACA library has a some "clippings" of early Peerless (1900-1903) but loose material is unverified, I can't use it. Lots of people mismark an old photo and it becomwes history. It's not on purpose but it muddies the water. The Cleveland Historical Library files had early teens cars marked and filed as 1902 models, shessh! Would you consider reading a chapter or two of my work in progress? I'm trundling toward the finish but still learning more details. Maybe I'm way off base and I would appreciate a set of experienced eyes on it, if you are willing. Contact me at alexcauthen at that dot com place with yahoo in front if you are feeling generous enough to try it out. I did order a copy of 2001 Jan-Feb Antique Automobile with the article "From Clothes Wringers & Bicycles to Horseless Carriages." It never arrived and I spent precious free time getting my money returned when the seller insisted they sent it. Too bad. My online order for Golden Wheels didn't arrive either but they didn't change me for it. I need to get back on task for those too.
  5. I wish someone with more information could answer you. I was looking for more general information., not engine specific but, with good sources, I have the following Auburns using Rutenber engines. 1915 Model 6-47 Touring 6 1915 Model 6-47 (Roadster) 1916 Model 6-38 Roadster (Lt. Six) 1916 Model 6-38 Touring (Lt. Six) 1916 Model 6-40A Touring 7 1916 Model 6-40A Roadster 1919 Model 6-39H Touring 5-P The 1915 used the Rutenber 6-45 engine and that is the only Rutenber number I have. The 1919 models used a combination of Teetor, Rutenber and Continental engines to meet an increased demand of more than 500% from 1918. Once the Chicago group bought Auburn, I didn’t see Rutenber listed as a supplier again. Weidly was a one-year supplier in 1923. BUT I was not doing engine specific searching, these finding are just incidental to my general search. I hope this helps some.
  6. Well, I got a bit of an education in the Crawford Auto and Air Museum and in the archives. There was no early Peerless Motorette on display but there was a 1902 Pierce Motorette and, contrary to my firm belief, it was tiller steered and controlled. I will shut my mouth about things I believe but have no proof of, from now on. The archives were a bit of a disappointment. The have very little on Peerless from 1900-1904. but they had enough to educate me on the Type 5. Since I hadn't seen it advertised I assumed it did not exist. Wrong. It did exist and was offered for sale. I marked the booklet for copying services and hope to see my copies within a month or so. Altogether I had about 100 pages marked to copy, so it's a big order. The Museum had less than half a dozen Peerless cars but that did include the fabulous 1932 handmade12 cylinder. And it is a sight to behold. It is easily comparable to the Duesenbergs by Murphy and others in style but it is a it smaller in presentation. If only.... Determined as I am, I'll contact the Classic Car Club and the Horseless Carriage Car Club to ask ahead of time, if they have information on the earliest years. I'm sure the Nethercutt Collection had a large research room when I was there. Any other suggestions would be appreciated. --- The National Electric Lamp Company bought the Peerless Motor Car Company in late1912. Shortly thereafter the new company declared a FORTY PERCENT dividend. Imagine that, a way to get rich quick if ever there was one. National Electric was owned by General Electric and in 1915, GE swept up several car companies they already had interest in to take advantage of the boom in the sales of trucks for the European war. It soon became WW 1 and GE made millions from the sales of trucks for the war effort. I can't help but believe that GE had this in mind all along and the purchase by "the Lamp men" was an intermediate step until circumstances allowed them to get approval from the board. BUT... this is another of those things that I firmly believe but have no information on, so I will shut my mouth for the time being. The photo is of a 1902 Pierce Motorette with tiller controls. That says nothing definitive about Peerless but it does make me think of possibilities.
  7. I really wanted to go see Boulton's cars at the Amelia Auction but it is such a hassle, travel, hotel, driving and that week on Amelia Island is like Monterey Car week in California. The second photo is definitely a DeDion-Bouton, I have a copy of it with the caption, "1900 DeDion-Bouton Voiturette" from an early magazine. All of the American made DeDion licensed cars that I have seen had steering wheels. That includes Skinner and Pierce. Skinner, located in Brooklyn, was the "sole American importer" for DeDion-Bouton. Peerless cast parts before they made licensed copies. There is a fine photo of Louis Chevrolet driving a 1900 Skinner car with the front seat removed (for racing?). This is not a Peerless but note the steering wheel. Here is a 1900 Banker Brothers ad with the radical, new, horizontal engine forward design of Peerless. They were the first in the US to use this design. Most US cars for the next five decades followed this layout. Extra interest in this ad is the Pierce Runabout advertised below, still a DeDion copy and looking old-fashioned compared to the spiffy Peerless. Take that! Pierce owners. The color photo is, of course, mis dated. Research shows the engine forward started in 1901, possibly developed by Max Hagelstine as engineer. Interesting about the photo in the ad. Peerless sold those cars with an "adjustable" steering wheel that folded over as the driver entered the car. It was a "fat man" steering wheel ten years before the "fat man" steering wheel was invented. The bottom photo is so fuzzy that it's hard to determine. I think it is a Type 4 because of the fenders. The Type 3 had lighter fenders than the 4. I've got one side shot of a Type 3 and I count 5 louvers on the side but I do not know if that was consistently done. Well, it's good to compare notes. When you're on your own, you get in a bubble and instead of bouncing things around you begin to think you know something. Most early information about Peerless is a mystery, they were never big on giving out information. What do you know of the buyout by the National Electric Lamp Co. managers and the later GE buyout?
  8. I'm surprised that he does not list the 1900 Motorettes that Peerless was making. They showed a Type C at the first NY Auto Show, so it is certain that Peerless was in the auto manufacturing business by 1900. Though I have read about the trike, I have never seen it mentioned in the trade magazines of the day, not once. They did not list Motorettes after 1901. I'm not being argumentative below, just sharing what I have. I have not seen the Type 5 mentioned in any year either. The earliest bore and stroke measurment I have is from 1902 for aType 4 is 4x4.5 sourced from Automobile Topics, April 5, 1902, Vol. 3, No. 25, p943. I saw an article about the first car in Lake City, CO and thought their specs were off based on the sources I have but hopefully we will learn something from the Cleveland History Collection. Generally, I find owners are not really good sources for information on their cars. They don't research, they take what they have as urtext and nobody knows what the car may have been through. Don Boulton was an exception to that. I was very lucky to have seen his collection. Got to speak with him briefly. I'm still trying to catch up with you on these posts. More later
  9. I ordered a copy of the magazine through ebay. I'll let you know when it comes in. I'm headed to the Western Reserve Historical Library later next week. A big event I have not seen advertised. The Crawford Museum is opening their warehouse on Saturday (Sept 14) for a "Coffee and Cars" event. This is the first time in ten years and the second time in recent history that they are allowing a public visit there. Macedonia, Ohio. https://www.wrhs.org/events/crawford-coffee-cars-september/
  10. Thanks for your reply, Jeff. I'm still unaccustomed to the layout of the forum, I learned today, posts are not organized by date. I think I can find your reply quicker in the future. I do have the Hendry article from Automobile Quarterly. The other two are new to me and I will track them down. One thing about it, there's not a lot of competition for this kind of thing. You are right about Case Western Reserve, the Crawford and The Cleveland Museum. I'm trying to organize a Cleveland visit in September. Case Western said they have materials but will only give general descriptions about what they have. I understand their response so I think my next call will be to the Crawford, I bet someone there will offer more specific direction. Thanks again, good sources and I will keep you posted on my research if you are interested. Alex
  11. Hi Jeff, I've been lurking here for about six months. You are a veritable cornucopia of Peerless information. I'm looking for information on the earliest years of Peerless, do you think the Case Western Reserve archives would be of any help? Specifically I am looking for photos of a Peerless Motorette and looking for specs on the Type 3 and Type 4. They seem willing to assist once I get there but they don't give much information through email.
  12. Larger images can be seen if you click on "View the full article." On that page, click on the photo for a full size image. Those who have spent a lot of time here already know this stuff but the newbies, myself included, feel let down when the text is too small. The text is very readable if you follow the link. Thanks to the folks at the AACA Library for posting this. I'm a big fan of mid-thirties Hupmobiles among others.
  13. Does anyone know more about Duesenbergs than Randy Ema of Orange, CA? Is either of your cars are a Model J? If so, Ema already has a folder n them. Since he bought the remnants of the Duesenberg factory, he can give you the most direct information. Will he talk to you? If you have possession of two Duesenbergs my guess is that he will.