alextheantiqueautoguy

Great Information, history and a fabulous photo! I believe the identification is right on target, too. Type 8 "King of Belgium" Touring Car. The other Type offered in that period, differed in that the tonneau door connected with a straight line to the driver's seat bACK. I believe the car's year is 1904 because by 1905 Peerless had moved the rear fender further back to make a more useable side-entrance. In 1905 the models offered were Models 9, 10, 11 and 12. In 1904-5 there were not a lot of manufacturers who could make a car dependable enough to avoid being stranded in the desert under that kind of use! A couple of makers might but Peerless was the leader by far, IMHO. Thanks for the great post!

I have heard of this collection for years but I have read that getting in is usually reserved for groups. I've contacted the dealerships a couple of times over the years and gotten stonewalled.

The idea of having a car in the family dining room and keeping it in the family for over a hundred years makes an antique car fan smile. But I don't think this is an Olds of the 1908 vintage. That year Olds had three rather large touring cars, the models M, X and Z, along with a Flying Roadster. If I fantasize, I would hope this family had one of Ransom Olds' pre-1900 cars... but it's likely not.

With no radiator visible, do you think it's electric?

I had thought about Knox at one time. I am not a Knox specialist but almost all of the photos I saw of Knox show them as left-hand-drive so I discounted them as a possibility. Also, the Knox bodywork is of a lot higher quality than this thing, with it's obtuse but angled front. Electric? You may be on to something!

Peerless cars carried a 4-cylinder Kellogg air pump until 1915 or 16. They converted to the single cylinder model in 1914, similar to the one in your picture. I cannot find anything else online. All of this is from ­­­­Peerless Automobiles In the Brass Era: 1900 ~ 1915. One of the accessories furnished with the 1911 Peerless car is a four cylinder air pump, manufactured by the Kellogg Manufacturing Company, of Rochester, N Y. The pump is driven by means of a metal clutch from the secondary shaft of the transmission. This is operated by a lever at the side of the car. A hose which is connected to the pump is coiled under the front seat. To inflate a tire this hose is merely coupled to the tire, the lever moved and the engine started. [1] [1] “Kellogg Four Cylinder Air Pump,” The Horseless Age, November 2, 1910, Vol. 26, No. 18, p602. [1] “Kellogg Four Cylinder Air Pump,” The Horseless Age, November 2, 1910, Vol. 26, No. 18, p602.

A friend, who is a published automobile researcher in Russia and Europe, has been trying to identify this auto. Most likely, it is European but there's still a chance that someone posting on this forum can identify it. Some US makers would call this a double phaeton. 12-spoke wheels front and back, RHD unless the photo has been reversed, single light. I don't think it is electric but... somebody knows more than I do. Thanks!

The Franklin Company commissioned four coachbuilders to make models for 1930. The list included Dietrich, Derham, Walker and Brunn. There are engineering drawing and photos of cars available online.

Franklin Manufacturing did NOT hold the Selden patent. The Association of Licensed Automobile Manufacturers (ALAM) was a group of American auto companies that decided to pay a license fee rather than try to battle the owner of the Selden copyright. It was a scheme to bilk the American consumer, and it worked until 1911. Selden never built a working model or any car at all until after 1905. In short, he did not have a valid application since he had no working model. He filed a partial application in 1877 and it languished in the Patent Office until the Electric Vehicle Company (EVC) of New York and Philadelphia bought the patent. Pushed it and began enforcing it. Basically, electric car production was in a shambles and EVC wanted to be paid for Winton's production of cars. It was a terrible idea and, out of fear, many auto companies paid the fees. An attempt was made to make an original Selden car and a famous photo was taken with Henry Ford as the passenger. He looked like he had been sucking on lemons in the photograph because he knew it was a sham. This may have been Henry Ford's finest hour. He fought the patent on engineering grounds where the Supreme Court ruled that Selden's patent covered autos that had an improved Brayton engine. The cost of the case was said to be the longest and most expensive ever before the SOCTUS at that time. Ford summed up his opinion of the Selden scheme, "We believe that the would have been just as far advanced to-day if Mr. Selden had never been born." Ford launched a successful court case against the patent and won in 1911

I have heard several stories like that. Most notably the Bugatti here, but.... ,not to forget the Citroen 2CV, buried and hidden from the Nazi's.

I'm still trying to figure out Hudson's naming pattern BUT... I understand the 1939 Hudson 112 is aka the Series 90 with a 112" wheelbase. The car is advertised as Series 92 which would make it the Hudson Standard Six with a 118" wheelbase. The pod headlights were only on the Series 90 cars, so I believe the car being offered is a 1939 Hudson 112, Series 90 4dr Touring Sedan. Can anyone clear this up for me?

I have the "Golden Wheels" book. Overall, it is an invaluable resource on cars made in Cleveland. That sounds like a joke but before 1905, Cleveland was the center of automobile production in the US. Detroit bankers and Henry Ford changed that. The information on Peerless in Golden Wheels is not always factually accurate, this is not meant as criticism, only that electronic research is able to cover a vast amount of information that chasing down books in libraries will never compare. Golden Wheels is otherwise invaluable and well written. The purpose of the 824.8 cubic inch engine was prestige. Only Pierce Arrow and Peerless could have engineered an engine of this size. As with Cadillac V-16 in 1932, the motor made a statement about which car company was the leader. And like Cadillac in 1932, the sales never matched the motor. Thanks for Jeff for mentioning my book Peerless Automobiles of the Brass Era. He is a never-ending source of support for Peerless. The book was self-published, and copies are available in the Western Reserve Historical Society library in Cleveland and the Library of Congress.

Thanks, I did see him.

An authoritative answer like this is very much appreciated. The link to Tony St. Clair's blog is also appreciated, what a source he is!

Anyone know of any Peerless items or items of interest at Chicasha Swap Meet this year. This is my first time there. I am not sure that is it the event it was pre-covid when Don Bolton was alive. Any hints will be appreciated.

I'm headed there, looking for literature on Buick, specific years, and Peerless items. I published a book on Peerless and am looking for "stuff" related to Peerless that interests me. https://www.google.com/books/edition/Peerless_Automobiles_in_the_Brass_Era/6Y5tzQEACAAJ?hl=en

I'm always trying to learn. In my research a 6-81 would likely be a Six Cylinder car with an 81 HP engine. Did Peerless make a Six in 1930? I can find only that they made five Standard 8 styles, seven Master 8 body styles and eight Custom 8 styles... along with a single 6-cylinder Model 61A Roadster style. Have I totally missed a Six-Cylinder series? I'm here to learn.

I get mad when I see people standing in front of their cars in these old photos. Don't they realize we want to see the darn car!

Peerless was refused 1st place on the Glidden tour more than once and on the vaguest of technicalities. In 1908 the judging angered Peerless President Lewis Kittredge so much that it caused him to withdraw Peerless from sponsoring factory race cars afterward. The Peerless team for the 1908 Glidden race was a matched set of cars, one painted red, one white and one blue. In the picture below, the middle one is white... you can figure out the red and blue ones yourself.

I wrote to Mr. Faaborg at an address attributed to him but have had no reply. If he is alive, he would be over 90 years old, it is not impossible for him to reply. I'm an optimist. I found a copy of the book advertised on - I think - Spanish ebay. It was out of stock.

I have been up to my neck in research the last few months, and part of it waded into the Peerless Trucks. After the end of WWI, one entrepreneur bought up hundreds of American trucks in the UK and was going to auction them, apparently at very low prices. Over 100 appear to have been Peerless trucks. British truck manufacturers went up in arms to protest! Eventually, the King told the dealer he could not sell the trucks in Britain - even though he bought them in Britain! Next he decided to bundle his trucks on a shipment to the USA where intended to sell them at a auction. The last information I have at this point is that truck dealers in the US had the same reaction, not wanted surplus war trucks sold at cut-rate prices in the US. I have always been under the impression that those surplus trucks ended up in Britain by virtue of a few photographs... regardless of where these particular trucks ended up, I expect there is still a Peerless truck or two in Great Britain. That's my bet.

Sean, I have photos of almost every factory made Buick from beginning until 1939 and not one photo I looked at shows the "D" Shape of the rear side window you have in the photo above! The Model 28-51 Brougham Sedan shows a porthole window in the rear but the 28-47 Town Brougham is one of the few models I do NOT have. Don't get too excited, only TWO of that model were reported to have been made. The Designation of "Master Six" from that period does little to identify your car. In 1928 all of the Series 121 (120") and and Series 129 (alternate 128") cars may have been called Master 6 models, that covers about 10 cars! I hate to present all of the obstacles and no answers. Perhaps, the body of the car you have is NOT a standard Buick design, but a coachbuilt body! If that is the answer, it would not match any Buick numbering. The Fisher Body Data plate may show a standard body but that rear side window is not standard on any Buick between 1924 and 1932... and that presents an identification problem. I'm going with "a coachbuilt body" for the answer.. but it's a WAG. A fine looking Buick you have there!

Very dashing of you to cut the wind wing to support your spot light!

The atached photo is of Walter Marr and his partner J.P. Schneider demonstrating their Marr runabout as reported in the March, 1903 issue of the Cycle and Automobile Trade Journal. It's a rear-mounted single-cylinder of 6.5hp. You will notice the steering wheel, more advanced than Marr/Buick earlier cars which had tiller steering at that time. Those familiar with Buick history know that David Buick RE-incorporated the Buick Co. in May of 1903 and RE-hired Walter Marr as Chief Engineer sometime. That probably ended Marr's own experiments with this car and re-invigorated Buick's first successful car. I have not seen this photo in distribution before, enjoy!

The Peerless Gordon Bennett Racer had cooling pipes all around the car. Not the best idea but at the time it must have seemed to Mooers to be the only way to keep it from overheating.