Bringing Youth Into the Hobby

[1912Staver]

3 hours ago, Pfeil said:

 

"The hardest part about having kids these days is the first 40 years". 

 

I don't get that at all. By the time they are at least 21 they are adults and on their own if prepared right.

 

Lots of the young adults I knew when I was 21 still had some serious growing up to do, myself included { 21 in 1979}. College life included some behaviours that could have some very serious long term consequences,  primarily drugs and alcohol . When combined with the cheap muscle cars of the day there were some really close calls . Fortunately no deaths or life altering injury's within my immediate circle, but ample opportunity. Gives me a cold shiver at times when I think back. 21 is still pretty young with some people.

 None of really got a decent start in proper careers until our later 20's , the 80's were pretty bleak economically in Western Canada. But persistence paid off, life shaped up for most of us by our early 30's. The U.S. is probably different but Western Canada has most of the time over the last 40 years been a difficult place to start a career.

All of us eventually put our substance problems behind us except one. He was the most promising of us all, extremely smart in Uni. eventually a Marine biologist with a partnership in an environmental consulting co. But over the last 4 decades the booze has taken a terrible toll on his health. Very seriously diabetic and a recent limb amputation. He does not drink any more but the light bulb went on 30 years too late.

I would like to think 21 is a milestone for youthful maturity but in my experience not such a certainty.

Actually by 21 none of us were finished school let alone established in a career. Too many interruptions to earn enough to pay tuition and living expenses. Plus a couple of us have post grad degrees. 

As far as " prepared right " I think we were all prepared by our parents very well in my opinion. Middle class, hard working , generally blue collar parents. Work hard and get a good education was the nearly universal parental mantra. We all worked very hard, wouldn't have ended up where we did otherwise. Often juggling work and school, very long hours, very hard work. But definitely played too hard as well.

Greg in Canada

 

Edited September 25, 2019 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[keithb7]

4 hours ago, Pfeil said:

 

"The hardest part about having kids these days is the first 40 years". 

 

I don't get that at all. By the time they are at least 21 they are adults and on their own if prepared right.

 

There many reasons why 21 in 1979 is more like 30 today. Sure legally a person is an adult at 21. However I don’t buy my sons  a new winter jacket and kick them out at 21. Washing my hands financially, saying “good luck out there in the real world.”

 

Raised right? That’s a subjective term. Your idea and mine about how to raise our kids is personal and likely different. 

 

I have coached my kids to push themselves. Stepping out of their cruise control mode in life and school. Becoming uncomfortable in their surroundings means they are learning new things. Whether its on a pitcher’s mound in grade 5 or public speaking in Grade 12 and all points in between. I want my kids to have every opportunity to pick any path they choose in life. If a career in the trades is their choice, great. Do it. Just be the best tradesman you can, do things right, and treat others with respect. I’ll help ‘em get there any way they can if they need help. Or If they choose to become a doctor I’ll help if needed, to overcome any hurdles in their path. Whatever it is. Financial help. Mental support. Maybe I do their car repairs so they can study for a final exam? Whatever. They need to focus on their studies. I say to them “Tell me how I can help you succeed.” We talk about it and come up with a logical plan. Just as an example, getting a PHD is not over at age 21. If they choose that path. 

 

21 is the new 30 it seems. Around these parts anyway. The job market, the cost of living, the taxes, the economy. On an on it goes. Pretty tough for any kid around here to gain  independence by 21. I was exaggerating the 40 age as a joke. Notice the winking yellow face in my last sentence of my first post. 

Edited September 25, 2019 by keithb7 (see edit history)

[1912Staver]

One of my friends sons actually was well on track by 24. 27 now and doing very well in a demanding career.  Hardest working , most determined person I have ever met. But truly exceptional.

 His slightly older brother is almost the exact opposite. Almost exactly the same job environment, genetics, home life , social environment, parental support and guidance. One remarkable success , one vastly more ordinary result.

 My friend and his wife as well as everyone else are baffled to explain the difference.

 

Greg

[Pfeil]

3 hours ago, keithb7 said:

 

There many reasons why 21 in 1979 is more like 30 today. Sure legally a person is an adult at 21. However I don’t buy my sons  a new winter jacket and kick them out at 21. Washing my hands financially, saying “good luck out there in the real world.”

 

Raised right? That’s a subjective term. Your idea and mine about how to raise our kids is personal and likely different. 

 

I have coached my kids to push themselves. Stepping out of their cruise control mode in life and school. Becoming uncomfortable in their surroundings means they are learning new things. Whether its on a pitcher’s mound in grade 5 or public speaking in Grade 12 and all points in between. I want my kids to have every opportunity to pick any path they choose in life. If a career in the trades is their choice, great. Do it. Just be the best tradesman you can, do things right, and treat others with respect. I’ll help ‘em get there any way they can if they need help. Or If they choose to become a doctor I’ll help if needed, to overcome any hurdles in their path. Whatever it is. Financial help. Mental support. Maybe I do their car repairs so they can study for a final exam? Whatever. They need to focus on their studies. I say to them “Tell me how I can help you succeed.” We talk about it and come up with a logical plan. Just as an example, getting a PHD is not over at age 21. If they choose that path. 

 

21 is the new 30 it seems. Around these parts anyway. The job market, the cost of living, the taxes, the economy. On an on it goes. Pretty tough for any kid around here to gain  independence by 21. I was exaggerating the 40 age as a joke. Notice the winking yellow face in my last sentence of my first post. 

 

Raised right simply means: If you've done your job as a parent your kids should be  prepared to face the world and stand on their own two feet at least 21 years of age.

 

If what you say is true that kids only reach the mental maturity of us old folks did at 21 now can only achieve this at the age of 30, then perhaps we should change the voting age to 30 to reflect their maturity.

The exception to the voting age requirement of 30 would be for people entering the military. It's amazing how ( 9-12 weeks)  fast these kids grow up with a good dose of BMR and Discipline. That's Basic military requirements  that they get in Boot Camp and the structure of the military.

[keithb7]

Agree on the voting age! Great point. 

[Bhigdog]

On 9/21/2019 at 10:56 AM, Matt Harwood said:

 

 

 

 

If you want new car people to be interested in what we're interested in, you need to show them that owning an old car isn't a hardship and doesn't require special skills or a lot of money. Show them that these cars can be driven regularly and reliably and that they still work like regular cars.

 

 

 

Well said, except you are preaching to the choir. Everyone here will shake their heads in agreement that old cars are fun and just as easy and reliable as a new car.  WRONG! The problem is today's youth are NOT part of the choir. They expect everything and they expect it now. If the gratification is not instant they are not interested.

Maintaining an old car takes work and effort to receive some delayed pleasure. A concept alien to most kids today.

Here's the EVERY 1000 mile maintenance schedule for a 1955 Buick, right out of the book:

 

Check engine oil. then change every 2000/3000 or more often. A quart per 1000 is normal consumption.

Wipe clean and grease all chassis suspension and brake and clutch fittings. About 30+ odd fittings.

Cranking motor solenoid linkage..........Apply a few drops of oil.

Oil filter.........Change first 1000 then every 5000.

Synchromesh trans.......... Remove filler plug and check level..

Rear axle..............Ditto.

Distributor............Fill oil cup.

Air cleaner ..............Check oil

Generator................Add 8 to 10 drops 10W oil at filler cups.

Radiator.........Check level.

Battery..........Add distilled water.

Exhaust manifold valve.........Lubricate with graphited kerosene and work oil into bearings.

Steering gear.............Remove filler plug and check level.

Throttle linkage..........Lubricate with engine oil or lubriplate.

Master cylinder........Remove floor board rug and access plate and check level.

Hood latch and hinges........Lightly coat with lubriplate.

Door latches and strike plates...........Ditto.

I didn't get into the minutia of every hinge and linkage including the glove box door.

That takes us to every 5000 miles where wheel bearings, brake drums and adjustments, shocks, points, plugs, etc etc are added to the 1000 mile items.

Contrast to my brand new Grand Cherokee.

Grease fittings.........Zero

Trans oil check.........No dip stick

Battery........I don't know where it is.

Plugs........100,000 miles.

Points..........Nope.

Wheel bearing........Permanent lube.

Shocks...........Not sure there are any.

Steering........Power electric nothing to check.

Brakes..........Power disc. Nothing to adjust.

Air cleaner........Dry with an indicator.

Oil............Full synthetic. In the last 15 years and many 100's of thousands of miles I have never had to add a quart of oil to one of my cars.

 

Adding to all that is: air conditioning, power EVERYTHING, cruise control, GPS, entertainment systems, blue tooth, voice enabled controls, automatic system checks up the wazoo. This is the new normal and is what today's kids EXPECT in a daily driver. They are looking forward to self driving electric cars.

If one thinks they can convince today's kids that an old car is really a fun and easy thing and they would love it if they would just try it, they are delusional. Hell, you couldn't convince me and i like them.

Yes, there are a few that will take to old cars. Nurture them and help as best you can but don't expect that giving a kid a ride in an old car is going to mean squat in the long run................Bob

 

 

Edited September 26, 2019 by Bhigdog (see edit history)

[Joe in Canada]

Well this is my youngest grandson at 8 months and he is my last hope to have another car guy in the family. Seeing the older ones have their own ideas of an interesting hobby. He has the right idea as the car weighs in at 5,600 lb. so maybe this will give him some leverage. I do not think I could do this maneuver. 

[Pfeil]

2 minutes ago, Joe in Canada said:

Well this is my youngest grandson at 8 months and he is my last hope to have another car guy in the family. Seeing the older ones have their own ideas of an interesting hobby. He has the right idea as the car weighs in at 5,600 lb. so maybe this will give him some leverage. I do not think I could do this maneuver. 

That's a great shot. They are so special.

[Matt Harwood]

10 hours ago, Bhigdog said:

 

Well said, except you are preaching to the choir. Everyone here will shake their heads in agreement that old cars are fun and just as easy and reliable as a new car.  WRONG! The problem is today's youth are NOT part of the choir. They expect everything and they expect it now. If the gratification is not instant they are not interested.

Maintaining an old car takes work and effort to receive some delayed pleasure. A concept alien to most kids today.

Here's the EVERY 1000 mile maintenance schedule for a 1955 Buick, right out of the book:

 

Check engine oil. then change every 2000/3000 or more often. A quart per 1000 is normal consumption.

Wipe clean and grease all chassis suspension and brake and clutch fittings. About 30+ odd fittings.

Cranking motor solenoid linkage..........Apply a few drops of oil.

Oil filter.........Change first 1000 then every 5000.

Synchromesh trans.......... Remove filler plug and check level..

Rear axle..............Ditto.

Distributor............Fill oil cup.

Air cleaner ..............Check oil

Generator................Add 8 to 10 drops 10W oil at filler cups.

Radiator.........Check level.

Battery..........Add distilled water.

Exhaust manifold valve.........Lubricate with graphited kerosene and work oil into bearings.

Steering gear.............Remove filler plug and check level.

Throttle linkage..........Lubricate with engine oil or lubriplate.

Master cylinder........Remove floor board rug and access plate and check level.

Hood latch and hinges........Lightly coat with lubriplate.

Door latches and strike plates...........Ditto.

I didn't get into the minutia of every hinge and linkage including the glove box door.

That takes us to every 5000 miles where wheel bearings, brake drums and adjustments, shocks, points, plugs, etc etc are added to the 1000 mile items.

Contrast to my brand new Grand Cherokee.

Grease fittings.........Zero

Trans oil check.........No dip stick

Battery........I don't know where it is.

Plugs........100,000 miles.

Points..........Nope.

Wheel bearing........Permanent lube.

Shocks...........Not sure there are any.

Steering........Power electric nothing to check.

Brakes..........Power disc. Nothing to adjust.

Air cleaner........Dry with an indicator.

Oil............Full synthetic. In the last 15 years and many 100's of thousands of miles I have never had to add a quart of oil to one of my cars.

 

Adding to all that is: air conditioning, power EVERYTHING, cruise control, GPS, entertainment systems, blue tooth, voice enabled controls, automatic system checks up the wazoo. This is the new normal and is what today's kids EXPECT in a daily driver. They are looking forward to self driving electric cars.

If one thinks they can convince today's kids that an old car is really a fun and easy thing and they would love it if they would just try it, they are delusional. Hell, you couldn't convince me and i like them.

Yes, there are a few that will take to old cars. Nurture them and help as best you can but don't expect that giving a kid a ride in an old car is going to mean squat in the long run................Bob

 

You make my point for me, Bob. The impression young people have (and a majority of the hobby that doesn't have stock pre-1960 cars) is that old cars are fussy, uncomfortable, hard to drive, and expensive. My point was that if you drive them like real cars and let the general public, including "young" people (I agree that we're really talking about people my age: 40s and 50s), see them being real cars being used as real cars, that impression will change.

 

Right now, the only image most people have of old cars is that they are too precious to go out on the road, too difficult to drive, too dangerous to risk being in traffic, too slow, too unreliable, and too hard to fix if you do try to drive them. Look at them sitting on the lawn! Isn't that pretty! The guy just burned through a gallon of spray wax to make sure every speck of dust was gone--ooh! There he goes again! Good thing those "rich" guys can afford a whole staff to maintain them and move them around in big, enclosed, air-conditioned trailers. Boy, I'd never risk driving something like that on the road!

 

Meanwhile, they're looking at nothing more exotic than a Model A Ford.

 

The choir knows the deal. What I'm telling the choir is that they need to go out and use their cars as cars and let everyone see them doing it. Dispel this notion that all old cars are needy, expensive, and dangerous. Knock it off with this only driving to shows at the crack of dawn when nobody else is around and when the forecast says no rain for the next 40 days and nights. And when you get there, don't put up a fence around the car and whenever you have to leave the car you cover it and lock it because--god forbid!--someone might get too close and breathe on it wrong! The guy cleaning between his tire treads with a Q-Tip and Armor-All is doing as much harm to the hobby as the guy who feels the need to change everything to 12 volts. It just looks like too much goddamned work to most people on the outside looking in.

 

They're just cars. That's all they ever were and it's all they ever will be. Remind the rest of the world of that fact. Change some minds.

 

 

Edited September 26, 2019 by Matt Harwood (see edit history)

[Bhigdog]

The title of the O P is getting young people interested in the hobby. That's what I was addressing.

As for using "old cars" for near daily or even often use there are more than a few things that auger against that becoming a reality. First is registration prohibitions if registered as antique as well as insurance limitations. There is the lack of creature comforts ( AC  and climate control ). Safety concerns such as lack of seat belts, air bags, anti lock brakes etc etc. and the fact that they DO require MUCH more care and feeding than newer cars. That alone is often a deal breaker for a mid aged family man trying to balance his time and resources on a limited budget, often with limited space, and an often disinterested family.

I regularly use my 1939 Chevy JC for my "go to breakfast" vehicle and have for 25 years. It often generates conversations and comments. I can honestly say in all those years I've never got the impression it ACTUALLY created a desire to enter the hobby and I've NEVER been approached by any one considered "young" by any stretch of the imagination.

I'm going to have to stick with my afore mentioned predictions that despite any efforts to entice a new and young generation into the hobby demographics, technical advances, changing attitudes, politics, cost, and just plain lack of interest will drive the car collector of the future into being an obscure eccentric....................And so it goes.............Bob

 

[Mark Shaw]

1 hour ago, Matt Harwood said:

They're just cars. That's all they ever were and it's all they ever will be. Remind the rest of the world of that fact. Change some minds.

Exactly!!

[60FlatTop]

13 hours ago, Bhigdog said:

They expect everything and they expect it now. If the gratification is not instant they are not interested.

Maintaining an old car takes work and effort to receive some delayed pleasure. A concept alien to most kids today.

 

That made me laugh.

 

I was imagining all I read as if it was done in a Donald Duck voice. And the list of tasks as rites of passage into the inner sanctum.

 

 

That sounds a lot like the reception I got into the hobby 50 years ago. I know for sure I never worked as hard as anyone in the generation that came before me. And I don't recall ever having a "hard earned nickle of my own".

When I was in my 30's I was scolded by my father-in-law for not rolling an electric cord up and tying it like a house hitch. He thought I'd care.

 

Here is a quote-

" Nothing is certain in this life but death, taxes, and the existence in every generation of fuddy-duddies who carp about things not being what they used to be. This centuries-spanning collection of gripes seems to suggest that the golden era of stability and contentment these geezers long to return to may never have existed in the first place."

[Bhigdog]

31 minutes ago, 60FlatTop said:

I was imagining all I read as if it was done in a Donald Duck voice. And the list of tasks as rites of passage into the inner sanctum.

 

The list of tasks is not mine but Buick's straight from the 1955 shop manual. Not a rite of passage but simply a list of what's required to maintain, in this case, a 1955 Buick....... An "old car".

I do take your point of every generation carping about the latest one. My point on the latest generation was only as it might relate to the topic at hand: I.E. their interest in joining the old car hobby.

If my logic is flawed, and I hope it is, I'd be interested in data showing an increase in the hobby participation by "young" people or even a cogent explanation of the logic supporting a premise that the hobby will expand rather than contract, regardless of age of entry........................Bob

[1912Staver]

I am afraid the at times astonishingly low auction prices pre - war , non Ford sales prices show definitely supports the theory that interest is waning. Post war interest might be making up the difference in overall numbers but segments of that market are falling as well. I think we will continue to see the trend of pre - war cars being sold overseas. Some of the auction prices in the Lincoln thread and other auction result threads are quite an eye opener.

 

Greg in Canada

[John_Mereness]

19 hours ago, 1912Staver said:

I am afraid the at times astonishingly low auction prices pre - war , non Ford sales prices show definitely supports the theory that interest is waning. Post war interest might be making up the difference in overall numbers but segments of that market are falling as well. I think we will continue to see the trend of pre - war cars being sold overseas. Some of the auction prices in the Lincoln thread and other auction result threads are quite an eye opener.

 

Greg in Canada

I am not sure interest is waning - we have gone through a period of good car value appreciation matched to a larger group dying off than a newer group with money to buy at appreciated prices - you are starting to see a market adjustment currently and my guess is that will continue.   Keep in mind people 50 years ago and ...were complaining about the high cost of really desirable open/convertible cars and I doubt that will ever change. 

Edited September 27, 2019 by John_Mereness (see edit history)

[Pfeil]

26 minutes ago, John_Mereness said:

I am not sure interest is waning - we have gone through a period of good car value appreciation matched to a larger group dying off than a newer group with money to buy at appreciated prices - you are starting to see a market adjustment currently and my guess is that will continue.   Keep in mind people 50 years ago and ...were complaining about the high cost of really desirable open/convertible cars and I doubt that will ever change. 

 

 

  Keep in mind that we have governments around the world that have legislated gasoline and diesel cars out of existence, schools and the media that teach our kids that our cars are a evil necessity and the sooner they are gone the better. Fifty years ago there was none of that going on. Oh yes, there were the early environmental Wacko's of the first earth day in 1970, but today many of them are in government, schools and media. 

[John_Mereness]

1 minute ago, Pfeil said:

 

 

  Keep in mind that we have governments around the world that have legislated gasoline and diesel cars out of existence, schools and the media that teach our kids that our cars are a evil necessity and the sooner they are gone the better. Fifty years ago there was none of that going on. Oh yes, there were the early environmental Wacko's of the first earth day in 1970, but today many of them are in government, schools and media. 

Paul, also very true !

[Pfeil]

4 minutes ago, Pfeil said:

 

 

  Keep in mind that we have governments around the world that have legislated gasoline and diesel cars out of existence, schools and the media that teach our kids that our cars are a evil necessity and the sooner they are gone the better. Fifty years ago there was none of that going on. Oh yes, there were the early environmental Wacko's of the first earth day in 1970, but today many of them are in government, schools and media. 

You know kids look at all of this and say why should I get involved and spend money in something that either will not be there in 20-30 years or if it does it will be for the very few , and those very few will have to have pots of money to enjoy to enjoy a loosing proposition 

[1937hd45]

3 hours ago, Pfeil said:

You know kids look at all of this and say why should I get involved and spend money in something that either will not be there in 20-30 years or if it does it will be for the very few , and those very few will have to have pots of money to enjoy to enjoy a loosing proposition 

Those kids are losers, the losers my Grandchildren will make a fortune off of. Bob 

[Pfeil]

1 hour ago, 1937hd45 said:

Those kids are losers, the losers my Grandchildren will make a fortune off of. Bob 

 

 Those kids you mention are the majority and they will say what goes. Dream On.

[1912Staver]

Policy makers around the Western World are jumping on the anti fossil fuel bandwagon.  A series of lifestyle adverts on British Columbia TV these days showing young , prosperous , happy family's and their electric cars is in fairly heavy rotation. . Also promoting the tax payer funded program to significantly reduce the purchase price hurdle on electric cars. Quite mainstream, and clearly the writing on the wall of overall opinion  for many younger , urban family's in these parts.

 The future is happening fast and it does not appear to have much interest in fossil fuels. Urban British Columbian's are often very health and environmentally active / concerned. Quite a bit of support for electrics.

 

Greg in Canada , all for a healthy lifestyle and environmental protection right on up to the gasoline vehicle elephant in the room.

[keithb7]

I wonder how electric cars are really going to have much effect on cleaning up the environment?

 

Fossil fuels and mined resources are very much needed for the manufacturing of electric cars. There are so many statements going around,  it’s difficult to know truth from lies. Fact from fiction. 

 

I hear things like jets burning more fuel than all the cars in the world in a day. All the oil mined from earth, some of it is used to produce oil and gasoline. Yet a lot of it is for other oil based products like plastic for example. There certainly is plenty of plastic in electric cars. Battery technology is another topic that I know little about. Is it true there is no known way yet to recycle or environmentally deal with modern li-on batteries used in electric cars? Where is lithium mined? Do they dig or blast the earth and mine it with diesel powered heavy equipment? Then load the product on to diesel powered ships to move it to other continents for use? Then load it on diesel powered transport trucks and trains to be delivered to battery factories for production?  I don’t know but I suspect thats what is going on today. Perhaps in the future things will improve. 

 

I ask myself why water is captured from a spring in Fiji, bottled up and shipped and sold around here? Among the world’s cleanest and abundant amount of fresh water in the world is found right here in Canada. Yet I see “Fiji Water” on the shelf at the grocery store. People actually buy it. Does this make sense? How much diesel fuel was burned to get that water from Fiji to Canada? Perhaps a change in our culture is needed. 

 

Electric cars seem to be a good, popular target for people to focus on and fuss about. There seems to be so many other things going on. In terms of cleaning up the environment, I wonder if we should be talking about population control? Everywhere. That could have a big impact on preserving the world we live in. 

Edited September 28, 2019 by keithb7 (see edit history)

[cahartley]

I can't imagine even the most zealous environmentalists laying the current state of things at the feet of car hobbyists.

Even if they were when one is facing zealots there is no dealing going on........ 😬

 

 

[nick8086]

Or is this a wake up call for the car clubs..  No new members.. less funds..  I posted that 76% of the collector car are owned by a guy 69 years old.. maybe 5 years ago..

 

One club I drop out of is 9k in the hole. How many years will it take before they  can not  pay it's bills..

 

It helps if you have good leadership.  

 

They do not teach how to set points in technical school anymore..

Edited September 28, 2019 by nick8086 (see edit history)

[1912Staver]

I agree with you keith, electrics are probably little if any better for the environment than IC vehicles. But it is public perception that matters most of the time, facts not so much it seems.

And I have also heard similar evidence about air travel. A very large indeed overall emissions source. Somehow air travel is being almost completely overlooked by many , I guess cars make an easier target.

 I doubt even zealots blame the car hobby for the current state of the environment. But the car hobby does make an easy target in that it is a 100 % optional and in reality unnecessary activity.

 It does not serve any realistic transportation need. Lots of fun , much the same as vacation travel . But no justifiable , "can't do without" purpose.  Motorsport and recreational boating are in a similar spot. As the climate action situation evolves over the next 20 years I would expect all of these " unnecessary " fossil fuel uses to come under increasing scrutiny .

 

Greg

[Pfeil]

12 hours ago, keithb7 said:

. 

 

Electric cars seem to be a good, popular target for people to focus on and fuss about. There seems to be so many other things going on. In terms of cleaning up the environment, I wonder if we should be talking about population control? Everywhere. That could have a big impact on preserving the world we live in. 

 

 

 

 I remember going to the first Earth Day meeting at U.C.L.A. The big concern was Global Cooling and that we would be running out of fossil fuel by the end of the decade and a runaway population time bomb that would eventually consume us.

 The main attraction speaker was Paul Ralph Ehrlich, an American biologist, best known for his warnings about the consequences of population growth and limited resources. He is the Bing Professor of Population Studies of the Department of Biology of Stanford University and president of Stanford's Center for Conservation Biology. Ehrlich was a advocate of Zero population growth and wrote with his wife the Population Bomb.

 

My guess is when all the bad gasoline and diesel cars and airplanes are all electric and are gone that the environmental groups will eventually turn their focus on population control. In other words once they have eliminated all the unnatural enemies they will turn on them/ourselves.

 

 

 

Edited September 28, 2019 by Pfeil (see edit history)

[keithb7]

I am doing my best to keep my 22 year old son involved in my old cars. He’s interested.  Today we are tearing down a 1949 218 ci Mopar Flathead. It was siezed. Rings rusted to cylinders. He pulled it all apart with my guidance. At this point in the photo, he’s disassembling the valve train. 

 

I’m proud of him because he went from high school straight into a 4 year university degree. Which he completed. He’s finally got time to hang out with Dad again. Good times here in the shop!

 

 

[1912Staver]

I am sure you are both enjoying the shop time. 

My 19 year old son has at this point little old car interest.  Music and sports yes, old cars no. He just views cars a transport appliances, a necessary evil.

 At least part of the picture is probably the way I have approached the hobby for the last 25 years. Lots of interest, but glacier pace progress. A steady dilemma over hobby cost vs other expenses . I have been involved for over 45 years so by the time my son arrived the only cars that interested me were cars that were on the brink of being unaffordable to someone with my income. So several needy projects, definitely a mistake. All very interesting cars to me, but I now realise young people need to see and experience old cars that can be driven and used if they are going to catch the bug. 

 No easy solution, projects are nearly unsellable these days regardless of price.  And each passing year makes the already scarce hobby money just a bit more scarce.

Even I get a bit discouraged at times despite owning a couple of cars I feel extremely lucky to own , so easy to see how a 19 year old might  see no upside to the hobby. 

 

Greg

[keithb7]

@1912Staver you do a good job of writing out your thoughts and perceptions. Many of us feel the same way, or soon will likely.  I agree on young people’s perceptions of owning vintage cars today. I sometimes feel the same way. 

 

I have one car that is generally down long term for repairs and upgrades. Its a 1938 Plymouth. 4 door Sedan. It has little to no desirability nor resale value after a restoration. So I’m not planning to actually restore it at this point. I am reviving it. Making it a fun, unique driver. Solid power train. The details in paint and upholstery make never be realized under my direction and financing.  We’ll see. 

 

My other car is insured, and a driver. A 1953 Chrysler Windsor Deluxe. Collector plates. Cheap to buy. Cheap to insure. Easy to work on. I am rewarded after every repair I perform. I get to drive it often. It keeps me motivated and interested in old Mopars. 

 

My ‘38 is a great learning platform. I can do whatever I want to it to learn and develop new skills. I am not worried about resale value or a high end restoration at this time. 

 

My ‘53 was restored by someone else who would have more than likely lost their shirt selling it.  Again, another 4 door. It’s been a good fun car to get me active and enjoying the old car hobby. I love all old cars but tend to act on calculated financial decisions. I don’t listen to my heart. There are a ton of other great old cars that I would love to own. I’m doubting I’ll ever land one. 

Edited September 28, 2019 by keithb7 (see edit history)

[1912Staver]

One of my mistake was to start buying up the necessary parts to build a 1914 / 15 Model T speedster. I thought back to when I was 12 years old and that would have been a real thrill to me if my father had have been involved with something similar. My father was a vintage car fan, and took me to lots of shows , the Easter vintage parade etc,.,  But never owned  a vintage car himself. Mainly a sports , hunting and fishing guy with a strong but secondary interest in vintage cars. 

 Trouble was it is not 1970 anymore. A model T has 0 interest to my son, and less than 0 when in parts. In my view a young person could not help but be thrilled with a T as a first car, but much has changed over 50 years and I was slow to grasp that fact.  Placing your own ambitions on your child I now realise is a common parenting pitfall.

 I took my son to lots of events when he was about 8 - 15 years old, but eventually it became clear there were things he would rather be doing. One still hopes, but things don't look very promising.

Greg

[Bhigdog]

12 minutes ago, 1912Staver said:

Placing your own ambitions on your child I now realise is a common parenting pitfall.

 

BINGO!...............Bob

[John_Mereness]

17 hours ago, 1912Staver said:

One of my mistake was to start buying up the necessary parts to build a 1914 / 15 Model T speedster. I thought back to when I was 12 years old and that would have been a real thrill to me if my father had have been involved with something similar. My father was a vintage car fan, and took me to lots of shows , the Easter vintage parade etc,.,  But never owned  a vintage car himself. Mainly a sports , hunting and fishing guy with a strong but secondary interest in vintage cars. 

 Trouble was it is not 1970 anymore. A model T has 0 interest to my son, and less than 0 when in parts. In my view a young person could not help but be thrilled with a T as a first car, but much has changed over 50 years and I was slow to grasp that fact.  Placing your own ambitions on your child I now realise is a common parenting pitfall.

 I took my son to lots of events when he was about 8 - 15 years old, but eventually it became clear there were things he would rather be doing. One still hopes, but things don't look very promising.

Greg

You may have hit the nail on the head via one of the largest reasons - we bought a 1931 Cadillac (against everyone's recommendations and I was 7 years old at the time) and started restoration on it to get it done pretty quickly, though it did not hang around too long and then we bought a 1930 Franklin to restore - we had the Franklin maybe 5 months and I bought the 1941 Cadillac and my Dad started touring with it immediately (I was only 14) - we had a blast of a time. In the mean time dad's first employee he ever hired was a regular in our driveway with a 1929 Stearns Knight - many a great time riding in the rumble seat.   My point is I know a ton of people in their teens, 20's, 30's-40's, 50's 60's and even 70's of age who have been working with their dad or a project (of even 80's and 90's who have "been restoring" a car on their own) and have never been behind its wheel on the road, been behind the wheel of one just like theirs, or ...  When I sold the 1935 Auburn 851 Sedan to Craig Birkhold (Craig is Secretary of the Board of Directors  of The Cord Auburn Duesenberg Club), he had been restoring cars for quite a while, though the kids had reached an age he wanted a running and presentable car that his whole family could enjoy while they were restoring the others - and the has been faithful to that with the 1935 being at the Cord Auburn Duesenberg Festival every year since 2007 (and we brought it in 2006), on tours, and ... .  

 

Sidenote: I remember Bob Agle riding with us to out first Franklin meet in 1979 - he had really neat cars that were all unrestored  or under restoration (nothing drivable) - within a year he had a driving 1929 Touring and then got a 1928 cabriolet running while the 29 was sent out for a whirlwind herculean restoration, then he bought an L-29 to drive and .... - he had spent years never behind the wheel prior. 

Edited September 29, 2019 by John_Mereness (see edit history)

[John_Mereness]

17 hours ago, 1912Staver said:

One of my mistake was to start buying up the necessary parts to build a 1914 / 15 Model T speedster. I thought back to when I was 12 years old and that would have been a real thrill to me if my father had have been involved with something similar. My father was a vintage car fan, and took me to lots of shows , the Easter vintage parade etc,.,  But never owned  a vintage car himself. Mainly a sports , hunting and fishing guy with a strong but secondary interest in vintage cars. 

 Trouble was it is not 1970 anymore. A model T has 0 interest to my son, and less than 0 when in parts. In my view a young person could not help but be thrilled with a T as a first car, but much has changed over 50 years and I was slow to grasp that fact.  Placing your own ambitions on your child I now realise is a common parenting pitfall.

 I took my son to lots of events when he was about 8 - 15 years old, but eventually it became clear there were things he would rather be doing. One still hopes, but things don't look very promising.

Greg

Get the T chassis driveable,  mount a buckboard seat on it, and have some fun driving it up and down your drive - it may just tip the scales.   Sidenote:  I see quite a few 16 year old's to 30 plus year old's behind the wheels of Model T's (and A's) - at least in this geography. 

Edited September 29, 2019 by John_Mereness (see edit history)

[60FlatTop]

17 hours ago, 1912Staver said:

Placing your own ambitions on your child I now realise is a common parenting pitfall.

 

This is the one I figured out, but it gets a little deeper. Many times the child feels they are in competition with your aspirations (love or passion).

 

My father liked cars. He bought a new one every 3 years and it was always cleaned and maintained, never had an old one. He worked a regular 40 hour week. My grandfather had a business where he worked two nights a week and Saturdays. Luckily when I got old enough I worked at that family business with him on the Saturdays.

 

We had a few chances to do old car things together and they are memorable due to the infrequency.

 

The only thing I look back at as a competition for our times together was his work, which I know he hated. If I had been competing with a car that he obviously loved I might not be as involved in the hobby.

[Matt Harwood]

For me, the old cars were just a way to spend time with my dad. Granted, the cars caused him unending grief, but for me, it was uninterrupted time with him that I really enjoyed. I didn't matter which car we were using, it was just the two of us. 

 

Are we looking at this wrong? Maybe not how to get kids interested in cars, but maybe how to get fathers and children to spend time together playing with cars...

[1912Staver]

He is 19 now, spare time in his life is all about girls, his music buddies , his sports buddies. Not much space for old cars.

 

Greg

Edited September 29, 2019 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[John S.]

This  just happened the other with a new neighbor. This young fellow and his family moved on the block earlier this year. Several months later, a 1962 Ford flatbed truck was parked in his driveway. I didn't see too much of the owner, but i saw the truck, and noticed that he was putting new chrome trim items on the of the truck. I stopped by yesterday and started up a conversation, and found out that his dad had recently closed a body shop, and the truck was in the family since new. His father also gave him a 1929 Model A Ford Tudor that  sat in the body shop for over 40 years!. He admitted that he didn't know a lot about older cars, but wanted to learn.. We talked for about an hour,  to where to buy parts for  his Fords. I gave him a few issues of Hemmings, and during the week, I am gong to stop by and give him issues of the AACA magazine. Hopefully before Hershey. I will take him for a ride in the Studebaker. A lot of it has to do with conversation and encouragement. There are many young folks out there that would love to join the ranks of the Old Car Hobby. It all starts with a conversation. Thanks. John