edinmass Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 (edited) They just announced E15 across the board is unrestricted by season or location to help out the farmers from the recent trade war. Unfortunately, it’s really welfare for multi national billion and trillion dollar companies and we get to pay the tab.......from our wallet and running problems. Edited May 31, 2019 by edinmass (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Coyote Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 Oh wonderful. Maybe we should just go back a 100 years. Horses are still plentiful. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Licespray Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 As in ethanol in fuel? E10 is a standard here, E85 is meant to be fantastic. Our lowest octane rating is 91 also Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51dyno Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 This is strange as many parts of the country it has been to wet for planting corn , but it's the tariffs fault .If we have so much oil why are we making Alcohol is what many ca not follow . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Coyote Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 It's all about the DOLLARS!!!!!!! Unfortunately we the people have to part with more of ours, for everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 1 hour ago, Laughing Coyote said: Horses are still plentiful. I know, I have 350 of them. Unfortunately they all eat ethanol.😖 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zepher Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 Great. And the one Pure Gas station went out of business aways from me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank DuVal Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 36 minutes ago, GregLaR said: I know, I have 350 of them. Unfortunately they all eat ethanol.😖 And they eat everyday! Tequila and avocados are going up too, so you cannot drink or eat guacamole to drown your sorrows over E15! Still feeling our president knows what's best for us?😵 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 Sorry, this is all about buying votes. Farmers are sucking wind thanks to ill-conceived tariffs. Now we the tax payers have to pay for a $16 BILLION bail out for them PLUS we have to have our vehicles destroyed by E15 to further buy them off. Your tax dollars at work. Are we tired of winning yet? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesR Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 4 hours ago, edinmass said: They just announced E15 across the board is unrestricted by season or location to help out the farmers from the recent trade war. Unfortunately, it’s really welfare for multi national billion and trillion dollar companies and we get to pay the tab.......from our wallet and running problems. Who is "they"? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Coyote Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 Does racing fuel that is sold at the gas pump have ethanol? I found a place about 15 miles away from me that carries it. I wonder how the Mercury would run on it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted June 1, 2019 Author Share Posted June 1, 2019 25 minutes ago, JamesR said: Who is "they"? Federal government and EPA released the restrictions on E15 from three months a year to year round, and very limited markets to anywhere in the country. Officially it’s to support blending and local market and refining conditions. It’s not going to be seen everywhere, but in certain regions it will become common, and possibly permanent in the long run. Bend over......less mileage per gallon, and more expensive. They should remove all ethanol from all gas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maok Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 Its not the end of the world, how hard is it to alter to your car to run with E10/E15. Fuel lines, fuel pump, and some carb mods. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zepher Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 The rest of the country will have to live with the same insanity we live with in Calif every day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isaiah Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 (edited) Here is a link to my thread on the same subject Edited June 1, 2019 by Isaiah (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted June 1, 2019 Author Share Posted June 1, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, maok said: Its not the end of the world, how hard is it to alter to your car to run with E10/E15. Fuel lines, fuel pump, and some carb mods. Well, I recommend you try running a vacuum tank car with a Johnson carb on it with E15 or E10 and see how you make out. There are thousands of early cars that would cost thousands of dollars minimum to modify. I only run stock automobiles. It’s fifty times harder to run an early car stock than it is to butcher it with modern components. Higher combustion chamber temperatures and leaner conditions burn valves, make holes in pistons, and crack heads and blocks. Go ahead and enjoy E15 in your car..........if it doesn’t suffer any damage or performance issues, it’s because you don’t drive it. it pretty hard to modify most early carbs, if not impossible, which then would require a modern and non authentic unit.........and 95 percent of all electric fuel pumps are installed incorrectly and pose a serious fire danger and can be fatal in an accident. Thanks,.........I’ll pass on E15, and avoid E10 as much as possible. And yes, I have already made modifications to my cars to run E10 as it is. Fortunately they are all reversible but they still don’t preform correctly on it. Edited June 1, 2019 by edinmass (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbking Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 (edited) While most on this forum will initially be concerned with their older cars, the real loser will be air-cooled small engines. I have posted before the advantage of E-10 for my lawn and garden tractor. This is a fuel injected John Deere 20 HP. With E-10, it just isn't happy if the ambient is 85~90 or above and the sun is shinning. Thus "Honey, I will have to watch the ball game, the mower won't run"! It will run just fine at 100 (I don't, but the JD will) if undiluted gasoline is used. I have no idea what it will do on E-15. Maybe I will have to mow at night??? Or use one of my older carbureted JD's that I can modify. For those with 1932 and newer vehicles with downdraft carburetors, Carter carbs are an excellent choice because of the metering rod technology. Carry a set of rods in the glove box for gasoline, E-10, and E-15. The rods are quite easy to change on most models. And while I do not recommend doing this in practice; to prove the point of easy change, I once changed a set while the engine was running at idle. On the older vehicles with updraft carburetors, the ones that will give the most trouble will be those that were advertised in the day as "automatic". Most of the airvalve carbs fit this category because the airvalve spring is calibrated for a specific energy content, and there is little adjustment on the tension. Examples: Cadillac (Johnson), Packard airvalve (Detroit Lubricator), Marvel (other than early GMC), Schebler, Johnson, Rayfield, etc. The "plain tube" style (Stromberg, Zenith, etc.) can easily be tuned. Jon. Edited June 1, 2019 by carbking (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbking Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 (edited) 8 hours ago, maok said: Its not the end of the world, how hard is it to alter to your car to run with E10/E15. Fuel lines, fuel pump, and some carb mods. No - it isn't. But lots of early carbs are virtually impossible to modify inexpensively. How proficient are you at winding custom airvalve springs???? After you design the desired tension? Right now (don't know how long it will last) there is a tremendous market for good carburetor rebuilders/modifiers. We are so busy with the manufacture of rebuilding kits, we simply do not have time, and turn down 20~25 rebuilding jobs weekly. Hopefully, some youngster of 40~45 or so will get involved. Jon. Edited June 1, 2019 by carbking (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbking Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 One thing that will possibly help is the reluctance of the public to buy this *&^%, IF it is not required. When E-85 came out, every local station carried it. Today, I don't know of a station within 30 miles that carries E-85. It simply will not sell! A few years ago, it was virtually impossible to purchase undiluted gasoline in central Missouri except at a marina. Today, virtually every station, while still having one or more E-10 pumps, will offer real gasoline in a variety of octanes. The general population quickly learned the cost of E-10. Guessing most of them will have to be forced to use E-15. Jon. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFitz Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 Surprising, since, in the past few years, most of the gas stations here in central NY have switched there 91 octane to e-free. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryB Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 The whole ethanol effort, based on reactions to OPEC pricing and fuel availability 40 years ago is so outdated and unnecessary today. What did happen ,as mentioned by several so far is a giant subsidy for corn farmers who have become accustomed to the benefits and now want it to continue and be protected by government forced usage. It’s an awful use of farmland and waste of taxpayer dollars. The same land could be used to produce edible food and reduce food prices. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 Kurt Vonnegut never saw this coming, imagine, The Champagne of American Gas. “Kilgore Trout once wrote a short story which was a dialogue between two pieces of yeast. They were discussing the possible purposes of life as they ate sugar and suffocated in their own excrement. Because of their limited intelligence, they never came close to guessing that they were making champagne.” ― Kurt Vonnegut, Breakfast of Champions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plymouthcranbrook Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, TerryB said: The whole ethanol effort, based on reactions to OPEC pricing and fuel availability 40 years ago is so outdated and unnecessary today. What did happen ,as mentioned by several so far is a giant subsidy for corn farmers who have become accustomed to the benefits and now want it to continue and be protected by government forced usage. It’s an awful use of farmland and waste of taxpayer dollars. The same land could be used to produce edible food and reduce food prices. There you go again. Reduce food prices indeed! In reality farmers would most likely get less and processors get more. More supply seems to only affect the original producers profit. Edited June 1, 2019 by plymouthcranbrook (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryB Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 One of the arguments against ethanol is it raised the price of feed for animals which in turn raises food prices to the consumer. The farmer has to pay more for feed which lowers his profits and raises the price for consumers. Not good for the consumer and certainly not good for the farmers that have to purchase feed grains. Several months ago C-SPAN televised congressional hearings on the push to make E90 the primary fuel for sale in the US. Needless to say they corporate corn growers were at the hearing and strongly supported the idea. The idea seemed to be struggling in the hearings which I believe is good news for the rest of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbking Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 (edited) I understand the arguments for and against this being a subsidy for farmers, and as Joe mentioned, buying votes. However I believe there is another reason the government is pushing ethanol - a veiled MAJOR tax increase! I have done LOTS of testing on E-10, although with no vehicles newer than about 2006. My findings on fuel economy E-10 versus E-0: Low compression carbureted engines - average 91~92 percent Medium compression carburetor engines - 92~94 High compression carbureted engines (10:1 or higher) - 94~95 percent Fuel injected engines (with O2 sensor technology) - 84~86 percent (NOT a misprint! my testing shows fuel injection with O2 much worse than carburetors in handling the E-10) Again, have done NO testing with current production efi engines. But if one looks at the above percentages, how many additional gallons of fuel will be used nation-wide, and how much federal tax will be collected on the additional usage? And how much more with E-15? Jon. Edited June 1, 2019 by carbking (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 2 hours ago, carbking said: I have done LOTS of testing on E-10, although with no vehicles newer than about 2006. My findings on fuel economy E-10 versus E-0: Low compression carbureted engines - average 91~92 percent Medium compression carburetor engines - 92~94 High compression carbureted engines (10:1 or higher) - 94~95 percent Fuel injected engines (with O2 sensor technology) - 84~86 percent (NOT a misprint! my testing shows fuel injection with O2 much worse than carburetors in handling the E-10) The first question that comes to mind is, were the carb engines you tested rejetted for the E10? If not, then the reason for the difference is obvious. With jets sized for straight gasoline, the E10 makes the engine run lean, but at a given throttle opening, the jets are fixed so the fuel flow rate is fixed. The relatively small economy differences are due to the need for more throttle opening to make up for the lost power. On an EFI motor with an O2 sensor, the ECU will sense the lean mixture and will increase the injector pulse width at a given engine load, thus the decrease in fuel economy. Those of us old enough to remember the late 70s will remember oxygenated fuel (basically E10) in the winter months. The claim was that this tricked the engine into running leaner when the choke was on (which pretty much defeats the purpose of the choke being on, but these are politicians we're talking about). Of course, EFI compensates for the lean fuel, so that "benefit" is long gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesR Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 To me ethanol is a politically motivated product, and less of an engineering or environmentally motivated product. The agriculture industry benefits from it, so we all have to go along, apparently. Like I said, I can still get "no ethanol" fuel in Nebraska. They charge a little more for it, but I'm willing to pay it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbking Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 (edited) Joe - some of the carburetors I had recalibrated for the E-10, others no. On fuel economy, didn't seem to matter a lot (maybe 1~2 percent). Power difference could be noticed. What I did not do, which would probably have gotten a bit of the mileage back, was to install an electronic knock sensor for the distributor, so the distributor could advance to compensate for the higher AKI of the ethanol. Since the AKI of the ethanol is so much different from the AKI of the gasoline, I didn't want to advance the timing looking for the optimal spot, and risk the engine to detonation. The higher compression engines burned more of the ethanol, basically losing only the difference in energy. Higher compression engines I tested were Ford 390GT, and Pontiac RAIV. I am convinced that the lower compression engines spit part of the ethanol out the exhaust unburned. Jon. Edited June 1, 2019 by carbking (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zepher Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 Handy website to find E free gas in your area. Not sure if all E free stations are listed but it's still a decent resource. https://www.pure-gas.org/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 What an amazing economy we would have if there was half the intelligence the conspiracy theorists give them credit for. My factory commissioned flex fuel truck has consistently giving exactly 20 MPG. A few tank fulls of cornohol did 16 MPG. I paid one dollar less per gallon. The truck's performance turned malaise and I had an evap CEL come on. I think progress can be made but it needs to be adapted from a free market. Not some 'ere do well going "Poof! MY side of the isle is so good." (Gilligan told me it is spelt isle and the beach is a swamp with wet corn stalks). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbking Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 Bernie - not much on conspiracy theory myself. However, if one does the math: According to Google, the U.S. consumed 140.43 billion gallons of gasoline in 2015 (latest year). If you average my figures on fuel mileage conservatively at 93 percent (since there are many more fuel injected vehicles, I feel this figure is low, but will serve to illustrate my point); then an extra 11.5 billion gallons of gasoline was consumed in 2015. Federal gas tax is 18.4 cents per gallon. This represents more than a 2 billion dollar tax increase! Whether it was planned than way or not is certainly open for debate; but betcha some of the politicians have thought of it Jon. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now