pmhowe Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 Matt, My heart is with you (and with your family). I think I know what you are feeling. My CCCA was something different. I joined the CCCA back in 1958, when I was still a teenager. I had purchased a 1929 Pierce Arrow club sedan (with parts car) for $150. I got it running. I never got to license it and drive it, as college costs intruded. However, I scrounged parts, learned all about my car, met a lot of neat people, and loved it. I let my membership lapse for a decade or two, due to school, army, expenses. I rejoined, but found a different club. I have never been able to afford the expense of going on CCCA tours. I still love seeing the beautifully restored cars that are trailered to events, but they are well beyond my means. I enjoy the magazine, but enjoy it less, as the cars are more and more over-restored and are becoming more exotic in terms of price and exclusivity. Also, I have little in common with the people who have dozens of classics they own but were restored by others. I work on my cars, and I love them. I love learning about their engineering features (and follies) and I love it when they run as they did when they were young (not necessarily new). They provide dreams. Maybe that is why I enjoyed the movie “Midnight in Paris” so much, and love old “Untouchable” TV shows. However, the dreams don’t include trailering, paying hundreds of thousands of dollars for cars, and not driving them because they might get dirty or get a stone chip. I’m letting my CCCA membership lapse. Phil 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe in Canada Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 (edited) 10 hours ago, Matt Harwood said: I brought my family. And it was a mistake. There are no child-friendly events, The national Vintage Tour that we are hosting in 2019 Kingston Ont. we are going to try and have some things for the younger people. The hotel has a small indoor water park with two pools a splash pad and 100 foot water slide for the kids. They also have a life guard at the pool area so the parents can relax a bit. There is also a drive in theater to take in a movie and a go-cart track near by. We were also considering holding the tour during Kingston's Buskers Festival when they bring in Buskers from around the world. I know the kids of all ages would love it but the area would be too busy then for us. We are thinking of the younger generation for this tour but it is difficult. Edited April 13, 2018 by Joe in Canada (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sligermachine Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 15 hours ago, Willy said: storage building stuffed with Whippet parts), so I don't know what'll happen to that. I will be in Marion, Montana next 2weeks . it is still listed --kyle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sligermachine Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 5 hours ago, pmhowe said: I joined the CCCA back in 1958, when I was still a teenager. I had purchased a 1929 Pierce Arrow club sedan (with parts car) for $150. I got it running. I never got to license it and drive it, as college costs intruded. However, I scrounged parts, learned all about my car, met a lot of neat people, and loved it. me too long drives and a pot luck on the way with home maid ice cream made with a generator in the back of a 1931 ford truck .is how it was when I was a kid . we could just start a turer-de pot-luck club . I would go !! kyle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cahartley Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 11 hours ago, Matt Harwood said: This is too many words. I'm sorry. I'm having a crummy day sitting in a hotel room because I can't afford to go to the events my car club has booked for the day. I read this a day ago but upon reading it again the above sentence struck me. Pardon me if I'm wrong but it seems a bit elitist to book club events members can't afford. That's a problem....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8E45E Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 5 hours ago, cahartley said: I read this a day ago but upon reading it again the above sentence struck me. Pardon me if I'm wrong but it seems a bit elitist to book club events members can't afford. That's a problem....... I find I have MORE fun making my own 'tours' when there's a meet going on. Perhaps the best 'self-tour' for me was in 2007 was the Studebaker Drivers Club International Meet when myself and another club member from California went on a tour of the old Foundry. The lessee's of the facility were more than happy to show us around, and treated us like gold and asked 'when are the rest of you guys coming?' http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?6678-South-Bend-self-tour-2-The-Foundry&highlight=foundry Others took the bus tour to the ACD Museum, where I had been before, and others looked for something to do. After I posted my photos on the SDC Forum, I sure got some upset individuals who had no idea there was plenty of local stuff to see at the time that didn't cost a dime!! Craig 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LINC400 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 On 4/12/2018 at 1:30 PM, Matt Harwood said: This is too many words. I'm sorry. I'm having a crummy day sitting in a hotel room because I can't afford to go to the events my car club has booked for the day. Sorry you are having a bad time, but, didn't you check that before you went on this trip? One of the local AACA chapters announces trips with no details, and if they still can't provide them by the time the trip is going to happen, I don't go. I am not going to take vacation days and spend money on a hotel if they can't even tell you what you will be doing ahead of time. I have also cancelled trips if when they announced what the details were they were too boring or too expensive. I might have missed a couple interesting trips, but I also avoided a lot of bad ones. I also check out what else is in the area in case one of the days activities are not of interest to me, or maybe I want to add a day or 2 to see something on my own. Also, if these car clubs are trying to attract younger members, younger members want to see everything online. And every year the car clubs are getting worse and worse with providing event info online. I actively seek out events, and can't get info. The events calendar is still showing last year's events for many clubs, and some haven't been updated for 2-4 years. The local Packard club doesn't even have a website anymore. How do they think they are going to get millennials to attend events if they can't even be bothered to announce them? The local Cadillac club used to have a luxury car show, which I thought was a neat idea. But they complained that only Cadillacs showed up, hardly any Lincolns, Imperials, Packards, etc. We asked them, did you notify those clubs about this show or promote it outside of the Cadillac club? No, they never did. So what, everyone with an other than Cadillac luxury car was supposed to just psychicly know that this show was happening? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 (edited) I'm here as an officer of my region, so we're attending the meetings. I knew the costs (and registered my displeasure with the "one cost for everything" policy) but we figured it would be good to expose the kids to a different part of the country. I spent the $1200 for us to attend all of the events on one day because the day ended with a river boat dinner cruise but it turns out it never sails, just sits at the dock for a song and dance show. Whatever. Last night was the awards banquet and after 2 hours of sitting alone (because nobody will sit with the kids) they finally started bringing food. After 3 hours and we were finishing salads, the kids were totally done--no way they were making it through another hour of dinner and two hours of awards ceremony. So we left and fed them Wendy's. Another $800. I'm here to work for my club, I have no illusions that this was supposed to be a vacation. But if I were a rich retired guy without kids, it would be. And that's a problem that the club(s) don't see because most members live in that bubble. Edited April 14, 2018 by Matt Harwood (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 On 4/12/2018 at 7:36 PM, pmhowe said: I’m letting my CCCA membership lapse. I hope you will reconsider. I only can do one event every 3 or 4 years, but find the publications to be worth the membership costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 12 minutes ago, alsancle said: I hope you will reconsider. I only can do one event every 3 or 4 years, but find the publications to be worth the membership costs. Incidentally, the CCCA just decided to shoot itself in the wallet by offering a digital publications only membership for under $30. Most members are magazine members. I have a hunch this move will have the opposite effect on finances and membership participation at events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 1 hour ago, Matt Harwood said: I have no illusions that this was supposed to be a vacation. I am reminded of seeing you by the green '41 Buick convertible at last year's Hershey car coral. I was going to introduce myself and tell you how much I enjoy your sales write ups and contributions to the forum. I walked around the Buick a few times hoping for an opportunity, but you were patiently listening to someone demonstrating vocabulary and wisdom far beyond that of mortal man. I figured you were in for the long haul on that one so I moved on. Although I recognized you were on something of a working vacation, I sure didn't envy any of that part of your day. Bernie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 45 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said: Most members are magazine members. I fit in this group. I own three Full Classics, and am still a member of the CCCA, but have not participated in an event for decades. In the 1970's and 1980's, I lived in Louisiana, and the active CCCA groups were in Texas. We went to many an enjoyable event, although even then the cost was on the upper end of the scale. However, the cars and people were worth it. In the late 1980's, we moved to Virginia. Our first Grand Classic was in Baltimore, where we were treated as second class members because we "only" brought a '38 Packard Super 8 convertible coupe. It was a Senior CCCA car, by the way, but there were I-F's, Mercedes, and all manner of "better" cars. We literally had people walk away from us when they found out we "only" had an eight cylinder Packard. We then tried a couple of Caravans. We enjoy driving the cars, and there are some beautiful places in the northeast, but after two of them, we realized we couldn't keep up, monetarily, with what the CCCA was all about. My most vivid memory is of three nights at the Mohawk Mountain House hotel in New York, this would have been early 1990's, and the cost for one room, three nights, was over $1000. The whole week probably cost us over $4000, and remember, this is the '90's when that was pretty good money. So, I continue to subscribe for the magazine, although I don't approve at all of the newly listed cars that are now considered by CCCA as Full Classics. The digital membership may be tempting..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe in Canada Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 (edited) On 13/04/2018 at 7:49 AM, 8E45E said: Pardon me if I'm wrong but it seems a bit elitist to book club events members can't afford. Another plug for the 2019 Vintage Tour in Kingston Ont. Aug. 4 to the 9. Every penny you spent in Canada is like getting 25% off with the $$ exchange in favour of the US $$. I have had folks grumble about not having a passport for the high cost of it. You can get a passport card for $65. and for kids it is $50. They just raise the price $10. https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/passports/apply-renew-passport/card.html So your savings in the $$ exchange on the room cost will more than enough cover that. National has also instructed me to make the tour cost efficient keeping away from expensive venues. Rooms are $129. + tax for two queen beds and a hot breakfast. So in reality you are under $100. a night for lodging in US funds. https://www.google.ca/maps/uv?hl=en&pb=!1s0x4cd2ac71edc1b331:0x85cd7dde2df4246f!2m22!2m2!1i80!2i80!3m1!2i20!16m16!1b1!2m2!1m1!1e1!2m2!1m1!1e3!2m2!1m1!1e5!2m2!1m1!1e4!2m2!1m1!1e6!3m1!7e115!4shttps://lh5.googleusercontent.com/p/AF1QipMMEdobUrnlZIf-a4vfAWgh-RkYb_I4o0rdUpa6%3Dw300-h200-k-no!5sambassador+hotel+kingston+-+Google+Search&imagekey=!1e10!2sAF1QipMMEdobUrnlZIf-a4vfAWgh-RkYb_I4o0rdUpa6&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjr3OaigLraAhUOrVkKHRn6A6UQoioIkwEwDQ and yes I have already booked my room. If you plan to stay longer they will keep the rate the same. This will be a hub tour with cordoned off car and trailer parking on site at the hotel. Edited April 14, 2018 by Joe in Canada (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 On 4/12/2018 at 11:56 PM, Joe in Canada said: The national Vintage Tour that we are hosting in 2019 Kingston Ont. we are going to try and have some things for the younger people. The hotel has a small indoor water park with two pools a splash pad and 100 foot water slide for the kids. They also have a life guard at the pool area so the parents can relax a bit. There is also a drive in theater to take in a movie and a go-cart track near by. We were also considering holding the tour during Kingston's Buskers Festival when they bring in Buskers from around the world. I know the kids of all ages would love it but the area would be too busy then for us. We are thinking of the younger generation for this tour but it is difficult. Send me details when you have them, Joe. My wife is from Toronto and we have been wanting to do a Canada tour for some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kfle Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 Thanks to the original poster, Mark, for this post. I am 47 and my 21 year old daughter got me into classic car collecting over a year ago. My daughter saved up her money and wanted to buy a 1970's VW camper bus. My wife and I took her to look at one that was a driver but had some rust and while we were at the place looking we saw a beautiful 1931 Model A Roadster. My daughter bought her bus and my wife and I ended up buying that Model A. I became hooked on classic cars and I am lucky enough to have been able to add some more cars to my collection. As someone newer to the hobby, I have observed many of the same things that Mark has mentioned. Even in the local Model A club, I encourage them to get more modern with communications as well as getting their Model A's out to share with people. If we do not share our knowledge and the passion for these classic cars, then the newer generation will find the barriers to entry and to get involved, even beyond money, to be too great. This year I have started to bring my pre war cars out to the local car shows and cruises and it is amazing how many people love seeing them and talking about them. I am always the only one there with an old car in as most have the fifties, muscle, and 80/90's cars but people always thank me for bringing the car out and sharing the knowledge. Some of the most engaging conversations I have are with the millennial age people. They always make comments about how impossible it must be to drive or how much money they must cost and every other perception they have and I give them the information to dispel some of those perceptions. I find that engaging in those conversations and giving people the information that puts a smile on their face is just as fun as driving our classic cars ourselves. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poci1957 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, kfle said: ........I am 47 and my 21 year old daughter got me into classic car collecting over a year ago. My daughter saved up her money and wanted to buy a 1970's VW camper bus........and while we were at the place looking we saw a beautiful 1931 Model A Roadster. My daughter bought her bus and my wife and I ended up buying that Model A. I became hooked on classic cars and I am lucky enough to have been able to add some more cars to my collection...... This year I have started to bring my pre war cars out to the local car shows......Some of the most engaging conversations I have are with the millennial age people. They always make comments about how impossible it must be to drive or how much money they must cost and every other perception they have and I give them the information to dispel some of those perceptions..... I am very impressed that a beginner would dive into something like a Cole and a Maxwell......kudos to you for going seriously old school and out of the mainstream, great to see, Todd C Edited June 21, 2018 by poci1957 (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kfle Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 4 hours ago, poci1957 said: I am very impressed that a beginner would dive into something like a Cole and a Maxwell......kudos to you for going seriously old school and out of the mainstream, great to see, Todd C Thank you and I appreciate it! I have always believe that you need to follow your passions and go for it. I also had a lot of encouragement from my 17 year old son who has fallen in love with old cars too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_Mack_CT Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 Great points and a fresh outlook. As to CCCA, I hope they are onto something by making digital material available online. Not a membership, but a great hook for around $30, or a lunch for two. As for me, rejoining because a pal shamed me into it recently, and at the end of the day I prefer hardcopy. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thej63 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 I fall in the "young guy" category as I just turned 32. My dad has interest in classic cars but has never owned one. I just happened to grow up with an interest in cars on my own. This interest spanned everything from 50s-modern day....that list has since expanded to the early 30s. I started attending classic car shows when I had the chance and wondering which one I would buy "once I was old and retired." After graduating college, I started to realize how cheap some classics actually were...both restored and un-restored...now the wheels started turning. I was fortunate enough to find and marry a wife who also had an interest in classic cars (given to her by her father who has a mid 90s mustang cobra that he babies). She is much more into the cars of the 50s. When we were dating I told her how much I wanted a classic and she would always point out to me that all the owners were old guys and that I could own an old car as a hobby once I retired. Meanwhile I was dumping all kinds of money into my daily driver wrangler and taking it off road a few times a year. I would always tell her how cheaply we could get something but I think she was thinking something that needs a lot of work...which didn't thrill her. We attended mecum in harrisburg and I think that opened her eyes as to costs. After getting married she made me a deal, get rid of the money pit jeep, lease a subaru (since I sell subarus), and we can get a classic car. We now own a '51 kaiser with a 7 year old restoration on it. We've had people guess that we paid anywhere from 5k-65k more for it than we did....but that's the great thing with owning an obscure brand. If we spent this much on a tri-5 chevy it would still be sitting waiting to be restored. There aren't many like us though. The vast majority of my friends don't care about cars. Yeah they think ours is neat but that's about where it stops. Those that are gearheads are into foreign cars of the 80s and up or american muscle cars. That's the way this is shifting...muscle cars and imports. Granted I don't mind because if interest dies off for the cars I like...lower prices for me right? I've been working on my wife since we bought the kaiser a year and a half ago for the next one. She's given me a provisional approval. I have my sights set on a Graham "spirit of motion" aka the sharknose. We've started taking our car to shows and have encouraged young kids that we see at these shows who express interest in the car. That being said...I'm sure we may come across as "grumpy" at times when we have to ask people to not touch when they feel inclined to grab the hood ornament, pull on the steering wheel, lean through the window with a dripping drink in hand, etc....if you show respect for something that isn't yours and ask first, sure. We've been attending hershey for the past 3 years and we plan to show this year. Every year we hear "this is my last show" from vendors and it's sad, we don't want to see this hobby go away but driving is now seen as a chore by people, a means to an end. Why bother owning one when you can hail a ride where you need to go? to sum it up from having seen it from the younger end: people our age are interested in cars...just not so much these cars, the rest have a declining interest in even driving. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xander Wildeisen Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 I have noticed a few more early original cars showing up at some of the shows out here. Some of it might be from all the people moving to this area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lahti35 Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 I'll have to say that after nearly 30 years into the hobby I'm contemplating getting out after 4 months of dealing with rude, greedy, flake, and just plain nasty sellers in my search for a touring car... The last 6-7 years haven't been that great either but nothing like now. I know there are nice folks out there but I've never run into so many fun-killing individuals as I have recently. I finally gave up and bought a '29 sedan but am considering just selling it when it gets here and moving on to some other hobby after a particularly nasty individual tried to slander me on another car group... Its just got me shaking my head and thinking the future of the old car hobby is in dire straights if this is the atmosphere that persists at the lower end of the antique car market... I've met many a great car individual but these days the force just isn't with me I guess... Option A: Get out. Option B: Stay in until September and try to make some new local club buddies with the sedan and maybe revive fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hill Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 ^^^ I have to admit that I with you on this. I have been around the hobby since 1978, very active since the early 90s. I have been extremely disappointed over the last couple of years between less than ethical folks selling cars and parts, club politics and the acceptance into so many clubs of modified cars that it has made me rethink my participation. I have decided to basically enjoy my old cars without dealing with the clubs, etc. I can enjoy the car hobby and never go to a club meeting or show and be very selective about who I deal with when buying stuff Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_Mack_CT Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 I don't quite get letting the actions of a few rotton apples ruin the hobby for you, especially online with so many places to take one's ball to and start a new game. Yes, there is a social aspect to any hobby, just remember there are great folks and a few fools in most pursuits. It is unfortunate to hit them all at once but maybe the next encounters will be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lahti35 Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 25 minutes ago, Steve_Mack_CT said: I don't quite get letting the actions of a few rotton apples ruin the hobby for you, especially online with so many places to take one's ball to and start a new game. Yes, there is a social aspect to any hobby, just remember there are great folks and a few fools in most pursuits. It is unfortunate to hit them all at once but maybe the next encounters will be good. Its true, one never knows what's around the corner! Its more than a few rotten apples though... in the last 4 months 90% of all the cars I seriously tried to buy (and we're talking many) had a "special person" as an owner... lets just say its the icing on the cake over the last several years of declining fun. Wisest course of action would seem to be take the new '29 for a maiden voyage and see if the thrill is gone or not and go from there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_Mack_CT Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 Hope you stay in. I posted with some hesitation, as I get the people aspect. Selling is at times, tense for both sides and hopefully in day to day your experience with folks improves. Even here, people have differences from time to time but its hard for the regulars not to grow on you... The ride should seal the deal. Here in New England one plus of winter is the rite of spring and dusting off the cars, youl see... ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poci1957 Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 3 minutes ago, Steve_Mack_CT said: Hope you stay in. I posted with some hesitation, as I get the people aspect. Selling is at times, tense for both sides and hopefully in day to day your experience with folks improves. I also hesitated to post and give attention to this topic but there is some unfortunate truth from Lahti35 and Bob Hill. In most hobbies there have always been people who were difficult/eccentric/odd/etc. and they can be especially attracted to dealing with old cars. Especially with (my favorite scapegoat again) the cable TV shows constantly showing greed and avarice about speculating in old cars and encouraging the careless modifying. The AACA is generally less about those things to me and Steve is right that all we can do is try to associate with agreeable folks and avoid the disagreeable. With the general coarsening of society the hobby is probably just mirroring life in general, Todd C 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xander Wildeisen Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 I do not know why people hesitate to talk about problems in this hobby/industry. What I have gone through out here, nobody should ever go through. There are parts to this story out here that an industry could embrace, and shine a light on what goes on with the targeting of people and businesses. And talk about the warning signs businesses should watch for, so they do not find out that their business has been walk down a road to be taken out, or pushed into shady stuff. We are all part of an industry with these cars, and what goes on in one part. Does spill over onto other parts. An honest conversation would go a long way to making this hobby/industry a better place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cahartley Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 Whether you are buying a new car or an old clunker integrity and honesty cannot be legislated. Unfortunately the onus is on you to determine what it is you are buying. I never sold anything without FULL disclosure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizz Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 I just like cars. All of them. Old ones, new ones, weird ones and cool ones. I like working on them, driving them and talking about them. My hobby is MY hobby and no one else is going to ruin it for me unless they burn down my garage and steal all my tools. The only thing I don’t like about cars is complaining about them.... The industry isn’t going anywhere just evolving. Don’t get mad get better 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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