How do I price and sell a 1923 Maxwell To ?

[Grimy]

3 hours ago, trimacar said:

The interesting comment in this, the seller "needs" $15K, so states that is what he needs out of the two cars.

 

With all due respect, what one "needs" to sell a car for is totally irrelevant.  It matters not one iota.

Ask a real estate agent about sellers who "NEED to get $XX" from a property....doesn't work in that market, either, but at least the prospective seller can continue to live in the house.

[trimacar]

8 hours ago, dibarlaw said:

Dave:

 Your opinion on the top. You mentioned on another post about the early original tops having a light colored interior face as this one does. One may hope to find a car with an original top to be serviceable but of course this does not look like this one would be. Worn spots, a few holes. To me it looks to have been re-topped in the 1950s when it went back on the road for a while (1956 Oregon plate). I know that Stitts had an article from the 1950s on "re-topping the open car". I believe some of the material he had used in the photos had the light inside face.

I will have to dig out the article.

Larry

A lot of early cars had light colored "inside" to the top.  It makes a huge difference sitting in the car, one doesn't feel like they're in a cave, really lightens it up.

 

I have a couple of early sample books containing top materials that were available, and the color range, both inside and out, is interesting. Look at all the INSIDE colors that were available!  I personally like the whipcord (striped) inside pattern, as seen in the fourth and fifth samples from the left.  A few years ago Eric Haartz made up 40 yards of a replicated Pantasote with whipcord backing for me, and it was beautiful.  That material now lives on two 1907 Autocars, an early Reo, and an early Stanley, with enough left over to do one more top.

 

 I recently put a top on a 1921 Dodge, and the owner had some 40 year old material that was light colored on the inside, it looks great, and the material matched the original top (that was removed 40 years ago when he acquired enough material for two top jobs, now that's forward thinking!).  The picture shows the material being fitted to the top.

 

I think your assessment is correct on the Maxwell here.  Looks a little too good to be an original top, so could very well have been done in the 50's or 60'w when such material was available.  Now, you can buy Haartz cloth top material that has a tan backing, but finding a vinyl (replacement for a Pantasote type top) with a solid light backing is difficult.  I do believe there are some grained toppings that are available with the aforementioned whipcord backing

[F&J]

56 minutes ago, trimacar said:

I have a couple of early sample books containing top materials that were available, and the color range, both inside and out, is interesting. Look at all the INSIDE colors that were available!  I personally like the whipcord (striped) inside pattern, as seen in the fourth and fifth samples from the left. 

 

That is amazing to have acquired those.  Fantastic reference material that likely is one of a kind.

[MikeC5]

What a nice original car.  I hope you can find a good home for it at a decent price.  Even the top looks to be in good shape.  Is there a chance you could post a few close up shots of the top irons linkage?  I have a set of irons (that I think are Maxwell) that I'm trying to confirm identity.  

[dibarlaw]

MikeC5:

 I think these Maxwell top sockets are close to what you had posted before. I was hoping yours would be what was on my 1925 Buick Standard.

Photo of Hugh from Texas original car top.

Probably yours would work but not the same style as mine is to be. I already have an older, cut down set that just does not look right. Cut down on rearmost socket and still 3" too tall. The top folds but is quite a mess as a stack.

 

[MikeC5]

Yes I remember.  The unusual thing about the set of irons I have is that there's no linkage connecting to the forward socket (other than the hinge point).  As near as I can tell from the pictures of this '23 Maxwell, the same is true. 

[Janousek]

Your Olds is probably the accelerator pump deteriorated more than the timing.  It will idle all day long until you step on it and squirt of fuel isn't their to feed the cylinders.  

 

The Maxwell looks like a nice starting point for preservation or restoration if one wanted to be upside down in a car.  If it was a Marmon you could get some money out of it.  I'm with the put in on ebay for 5 grand and go from there.  

[MikeC5]

Vanight, if you can take a few shots of the details shown and maybe a few measurements I would very much appreciate it. 

[Rogerrabbit]

Well guys, I made an offer of $6000 for this car and heard no reply one way or the other.  I'm really not sure its for sale, which is fine, but if it is, I hope it finds a good home.

[60FlatTop]

Thank you for posting the top diagram. Right way I saved it to my "make a convertible" folder. Over the years I have removed tops from a few cars and never made a working top. I wish I could find a top design/engineering book or other similar documentation. The mechanisms have always intrigued me and I would like to do a least one. I own a custom built convertible and have studied it fairly well. I'd just like to see how the design was taught.

Bernie

[Rogerrabbit]

1 hour ago, mike6024 said:

$6k sounds like a very generous offer. It's not running and cannot be left in "as found," un-restored condition.

That's what I thought, but apparently he wants to keep it or try something else.  I'm just not real sure he truly wants to sell it.

[Guest Vanight]

Some new pictures guys! https://goo.gl/photos/Mx8BW6oLuKiVHqtb8

[Guest Vanight]

On 5/4/2017 at 0:39 PM, 60FlatTop said:

About 10 years ago I had a Jaguar shipped open from Federal Way to the Buffalo New York area for $1700 and considered it a bargain price. The car would probably blow apart in open transport. I would figure close to $1.00 per mile enclosed and not running.

Ar that time I was shipping 40' containers from Port Elizabeth, New Jersey with two cars inside to Gutenberg, Sweden for $2500. Shipping single will add to the cost. Hopefully, that title went into your name in '07. If not, get it in your name. Post-9/11 shipping has become difficult in some instances.

 

I see the note about the keys is signed by a W. P., another guy with W. P. initials bought a whole bunch of Maxwells around that time.... if only.

 

If you want to resist the idea of cleaning the car, something that has had a great return for me, at least pick up the stuff piled on the car. I'd buy three or four grade schoolers ice cream and let them sit on the seats just to clean then up without looking like a detail job. Grand children are great to send home after doing that, or a few nieces and nephews.

 

If you accidentally get it too clean to call a barn find I can send you a couple of vacuum cleaner bags I set aside for my Wife to shake on my cars if I die. You can have them and I'll make a couple more.

 

I think you have a great opportunity with this car if you start a journal of the selling experience from a plain folks view (not a car collector). It is going to be a learning experience and the book could be a best seller.

Good luck, Bernie      Let me know if you need those vacuum cleaner bags!

 LOL, Thanks Bernie. Have you ever been told its hard to tell when your joking and when you're not? I'm thinking docudrama man! Insert tension building music .... Oh, W.P. Walden was my Grandfather Walt Walden. New pics uploaded, and ebay account is updated and ready to go as far as I know. Ya know, the docudrama thing aint a bad idea.  https://goo.gl/photos/Mx8BW6oLuKiVHqtb8

[MikeC5]

Bernie, I drew that up when trying to figure out what I needed to look for for the Dodge (it had no top sockets when I bought it).  Building them from scratch would be quite a challenge.  I haven't seen any information on how to design the sockets in terms of loads/stresses but I would think you would begin by creating the shape/profile of the top and then bow placement to hold that shape.  A 'one man top' design means the whole thing is cantilevered and held by the rear straps when folding/unfolding.  I don't know how you would estimate shock/impact loading/body twist from rough roads which, I would guess, is peak loading.  I suspect it was done empirically back in the day...

[60FlatTop]

"Walter P." Chrysler is the guy who bought the whole stock of Maxwells at that time. He rebadged them in a real creative way. Taking that out of context today, one would think Bill Durant told him it was a good idea..

 

I never tell a joke unless there is a lot of truth in it. Just making up stuff ain't funny.

 

More things in life should have unscripted documentation.

 

The pictures are much better, but the kids need to slide around on those seats a little just to buff up the leather.

Bernie

[60FlatTop]

11 minutes ago, MikeC5 said:

I suspect it was done empirically back in the day...

 

Thanks, I keep thinking Hess & Eisenhardt, maybe some of the body builders, that group, left some trail of guidelines behind. I have been looking for years. I'm not a total theory guy, but there must be some scraps somewhere.

Actually, I am fairly diverse. I recently started a paper about my personal, empirical experiences related to the Higgs boson in 1990. It all comes around sometime.

Bernie

[Rogerrabbit]

On ‎5‎/‎4‎/‎2017 at 1:53 PM, John_S_in_Penna said:

 

No, sorry to say.  If you get $5000, be happy, because

you may not get that amount either.  Many cars, as with

other collectible items, have modest values, even though

the general public doesn't realize that.

 

And to save yourself lots of valuable time, please price the cars

at what they are worth, not at the $15,000 you need to get.

Otherwise, you'll spend months and months of relistings and

get nowhere.  The market is so-so, and for cars of that era,

as someone said, the number of interested people is not large.

 

All the best to you on your sale!  I hope your car finds a good home.

Picture your car going to a caring hobbyist who will carry on

what your grandfather started.

 

well guys I'm out, he told me he is going to try EBAY.  I thought $6,000 was a very fair price and with the fees he will pay on Ebay, I'm really out, hope anyone who gets it the best.  This caretaker will just keep looking..............

[victorialynn2]

While that may be a fair offer, I understand why he'd want to try the broad exposure of eBay instead of taking the first offer. I've done the same and sometimes done better, sometimes not, but when all was said and done, I felt like I gave it my best effort. 

 

The fees are not that bad for cars. I've sold 4 or 5 that way in the past year or so. It was about $150 as they often run specials to list cars free and only pay the final fee if it sells. 

Good luck on the sale. 

[mercer09]

well guys I'm out, he told me he is going to try EBAY.  I thought $6,000 was a very fair price and with the fees he will pay on Ebay, I'm really out, hope anyone who gets it the best.  This caretaker will just keep looking..............

 

as victoria says- fees never run more then 125. for me

 

while the car may not fetch 6k, the seller has to satisfy his own mind. we all dream of gold one time or another in our lives.

 

I dont blame you for being" out" BTW.

 

I would walk just the same. Most folks cant spot when they are being treated fairly in life.

[mike6024]

Well if it appears on eBay with a starting bid of $5k you should feel free to bid that amount, nothing personal Who knows? Often there is a generous bid from someone who does not pay, and never had any intention of paying. On another forum we often joke about how many times a vehicle gets relisted, and the final high bid keeps dropping.

[Guest Vanight]

Hey guys, I suppose there may be some confusion on my part. I started this thread to investigate, gather information, learn what to do, and what not to do. I was not prepared to take offers here in this thread, as it seemed like something that would go on in, Buy sell trade section, if there is one.  So as far as being "out", you certainly don't have to be out of this thread. Anyone, am I off base here?

[John_S_in_Penna]

1 hour ago, Vanight said:

Anyone, am I off base here?

 

Definitely not!

You can ask any car questions here, and of course

sellers are free to ask any price they want.

Our forum members are true enthusiasts,

and since we're not at a car show talking to each other,

conversations by computer can go on for many days!

[Guest Vanight]

Hi Roger, like I said in my PM response to you, I feel a duty out of respect for my grandpa to at least try and get as close to $8000 as I can. When I said I may try ebay and that I would get back to you, I see where you might have read in to that as, after I tried ebay, I would get back to you if it did not work out. That was not what I meant at all, and I should have been more clear. I just wanted some time to process your offer as I didn't actually expect to get any offers thru this forum. I had just come to terms with needing to drop my expectations from $10,000.00 and just was not prepared. I spent an entire evening figuring out ebay on the advice I received on this thread, and I'll admit I had a bit of tunnel vision on that. I apology if that came across as sticking my nose up at your offer, or that your offer was some kind of insult. If I knew enough about this car, the market, and all its nuances to think that, I wouldn't be on this forum asking for advice, LOL. That car has been in the family since I was a kid. It went to my Mom, and then went to me. I am the first to even think about selling it, and yours, while being quite fair according to others in this thread,  was still the first offer I've had. I hope this clears up any mis-understanding. I do want to sell the Maxwell, but I feel a duty to do right by Grandpa, and Mom for that matter by showing due diligence in this process. I would be lieing if I didn't admit I am a little nervous about the ebay process for something like a car, I don't even know how I get paid, while the buyer is also confidence he hasn't just lost his money. It's not like he can hand me cash while I hand him / her the title.... I still do need to get the title in my name, which is going to be a cost I need to factor, especially in Oregon.

[Rogerrabbit]

No problem at all, John is right you can ask anything you want.  Save the old title, many old codgers like me collect the original title with the car.   Many of us are historians in a way, we love old cars and are care takers of them.  I have several old cars, and enjoy them, good luck with it and I hope it finds a great home.  I'm not really an Ebay fan buying old cars.  Bought a 30 with a block bondo'ed together and hid under paint.  It had been that way for years and the seller of the car didn't know and I DO believe him.  He was a good guy.  I just shy away from Ebay cars now.

 

You have a nice car. 

[trimacar]

A couple of words of advice on selling on Ebay.

 

First, you need to have a clear title in hand, ready to sign over to the new owner.  It's a real hassle for a buyer to get a title unless you have this, and your bids will reflect it by being lower.

 

If you want $8000, then list it as a "buy it now" at $8000, but make it also "best offer".  You can always reject offers, but at least someone has a chance to give you a shot at buying it.

 

In your TITLE listing, DON"T put words like "rare" "one of a kind" and the like.  List it with keywords that will match what people are searching for, year, make, body style, antique car, horseless carriage, vintage....GOOD keywords.  NO ONE goes searching for "rare".

 

I guess I'd add that statements later in description like "easy restoration" (no such thing) or "ran when parked" (but will take thousands of dollars to make run again) are also useless, and the real car guys know they are silly statements.....

 

Good luck with sale.  I, too, think the $6K is a fair offer for a non-running, non-functional, low-end automobile of the 1920's, but if you can get more, it's your right to try.....

[victorialynn2]

A couple EBay tips: you should have clear title before you list as others have said. 

 

As as far as payment, do not allow the car to be picked up until funds are verified. Even money orders can be faked. I work in title and escrow and we don't convey interest until the bank says it cleared. I personally have accepted wire transfers that clear in a day or so. I also usually request 500 down on PayPal to make sure buyer is legit. I put that in the listing as required. Also, talk to your bank about how to be sure funds are verified. 

Having a buy it now price isn't a bad idea. I had one on my last auction at a fair price and that was how it sold. 

Edited May 10, 2017 by victorialynn2 (see edit history)

[mercer09]

I still do need to get the title in my name, which is going to be a cost I need to factor, especially in Oregon.

 

If you have a clear title in your Moms name, no point in retitling again and again.

 

you can sell it with the title, as long as it is open and a bill of sale from your Mom.

 

same if the title is in your Grandpa's name. People make the mistake of making their local gov's rich on all the unnecessary paperwork..........

 

of course some will disagree with me here, but that's the facts jack!

[MikeC5]

Good advice here on Ebay sale.  Good luck.  Any chance you can take measurements on A, B, H and J referencing my diagram I posted earlier?

[Guest Vanight]

1 hour ago, MikeC5 said:

Good advice here on Ebay sale.  Good luck.  Any chance you can take measurements on A, B, H and J referencing my diagram I posted earlier?

The car is a little over an hour away, but I may be able to have my Dad take the measurements. I will take another look at the diagram. 

[Guest Vanight]

Do you guys know of any good youtube videos on how to get old cars like this running. I crank it every time I think of it, just to keep things moving. Putting gas in it is another story. I imagine dropping the tank and making sure no bad fuel is present and making sure the gas tank still work would be a good first step. If I could demonstrate that it runs, how much would that raise the value? The title is signed off, and I dont think its dated. My grandpa never dated titles, ever. 

[Grimy]

17 minutes ago, Vanight said:

Do you guys know of any good youtube videos on how to get old cars like this running. I crank it every time I think of it, just to keep things moving. Putting gas in it is another story. I imagine dropping the tank and making sure no bad fuel is present and making sure the gas tank still work would be a good first step. If I could demonstrate that it runs, how much would that raise the value? The title is signed off, and I dont think its dated. My grandpa never dated titles, ever. 

You don't want to go there.  I wouldn't try to start such a long-Sleeping Beauty like this without dropping the oil pan, cleaning it and the oil pump out, and inspecting the rod bearings and at least some of the main bearings.  That it turns over is a good thing to state, and will help get offers.  I trust you put some light oil in the cylinders.

[mike6024]

This '24 Dodge Coupe is still for sale, and has been so for about a year. Not sure how comparable it is or is not, but the point is that at $6250 no-one has snapped it up. Not running but body looks nice and does not seem to have even surface rusting. http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cto/6082866585.html

[John_S_in_Penna]

23 minutes ago, mike6024 said:

This '24 Dodge Coupe is still for sale, and has been so for about a year. Not sure how comparable it is or is not, but the point is that at $6250 no-one has snapped it up. Not running but body looks nice and does not seem to have even surface rusting. http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cto/6082866585.html

 

The Dodge coupe you show--for sale for a year--

demonstrates our pricing points very well:  that prices

are quite modest, and even then, sales are not automatic.

As some of us noted, getting $5000 for the 

well worn Maxwell should be a relief to the seller.

Mr. Vanight, we wish you the best, and the

long experience of forum members should bide you well. 

[trimacar]

I like that coupe a lot, I owned the exact model, bought in 1965 when I was 14 years old, and drove it a LOT around my hometown when I was a teen.  Very dependable cars, solid as a rock, as with many 20's Dodges a little boring, but good cars.  Once you get to know an old DB, they're like an old friend, they never let you down......

 

Not running, the $6250 might be optimistic...and I'm not sure what a Ca. NOP is (non-operative?), and is that a transferable title.

 

There's a lot of fun there for short money, though.....

[Grimy]

9 minutes ago, mike6024 said:

California Non-Operative Registration is very good. It means it is in the Department of Motor Vehicles computer system and the registration can be activated without having to pay any back (penalty) fees. If you let your vehicles registration just expire, in California, and do not file for non-op status then if there is an attempt to activate registration they will want hundreds, maybe over a thousand dollars in penalties because even if it was just sitting in a garage they are fining you as if you were driving a non-registered vehicle on California roads during that time.

Very true, BUT...

Thanks to the efforts of the late Jack Passey when he was President of the Association of California Car Clubs over 25 years ago, the California Vehicle Code has a provision of exemption from such penalties for vehicles over 25 years old **IF** there is a signed, under oath, declaration/certification of de facto non-operation continuously from the time the car was last registered (as demonstrated by paperwork) until someone seeks new registration.  A current "Non-Op" is of GREAT value in CA when selling or buying a "barn find" because otherwise the State would want certification from previous owners (possibly their executors) that the vehicle had not been moved or parked on public roads since last registered.  The "good" news is that (last time I checked) one is only subject to THREE years (rather than 30 or more) of penalties.  The bad news is that the penalties are based on what you swear you paid for the vehicle, due to California's ad valorem tax incorporated into the total annual fees.

 

When I have bought such a vehicle in the past, I have made it a condition of sale that the seller obtain a Non-Op from California (~$20 fee). It then becomes VERY easy to transfer into the buyer's name without penalties, and even can be done at a AAA office.

[Hubert_25-25]

Vanight,

   Consider getting an "Affidavit of Heirship" form. http://www.odot.state.or.us/forms/dmv/516fill.pdf  I bought my car from the widow of the owner in Texas.  It only required one extra form to go with the title sale for the DMV.  You have a legitimate title to go with the car, and given the age of the car, that is enough that it will not be a deal breaker.  People buying barn finds have to expect a little bit of extra work on the title end.  Putting it in your name will only diminish your profits.   The only other exception is if your state allows family member title transfers for $1.  Still extra work that may be unnecessary.  I also agree with Grimy about not attempting to start the car.  The old oil separates out and leaves a thick wax build up in pan and all thru the motor.  I would simply follow what he wrote as that is the proper way to do it.  They do make a spray called "engine stor" (no e) .  It is a fogging spray and it would be good to fog the cylinders, although it is a little late for that which should have been done years ago.  Certainly squirting engine oil in the cylinders will only benefit the car.   This is also another reason why the value is low for a non runner, because there is risk to the buyer of unknowns, and it takes some expertise to put these cars back in running order without damaging things.  Not a lot of parts for these.  I am not a fan of Wayne Carrini and his "just pour Marvel Mystery oil in it" and start it up.  He is not planning to keep the cars, and I think he is doing a dis-service to the buyers.

  

Hugh     

[vermontboy]

You need to check your own state laws on the title issue. I for one would never buy a car from anyone other than the title holder. It used to be easy ("I'm sure the prior owner is out in your car - why don't you go out and get him to sign it"). 25 years ago I had no problem, not today.

 

Depending on what state the buyer is in it may be very problematic with requirements for notarized signatures, etc. 

 

Just my two cents - maybe I am the only one in the world that feels that way.

[Restorer32]

Title laws are very state specific. Be very careful when buying a car with a less than perfect title.

[mercer09]

nothing wrong with the title- was his Grandpas..................

 

 

this is what I was eluding too in an earlier post.

[Guest Vanight]

On 5/10/2017 at 6:57 PM, Grimy said:

You don't want to go there.  I wouldn't try to start such a long-Sleeping Beauty like this without dropping the oil pan, cleaning it and the oil pump out, and inspecting the rod bearings and at least some of the main bearings.  That it turns over is a good thing to state, and will help get offers.  I trust you put some light oil in the cylinders.

I didnt but actually my dad did! Glad he knows a thing or two.