How do I price and sell a 1923 Maxwell To ?

[Guest Vanight]

Hello all,

 

I am new to the forum and hoping to sell a car I inherited from my Grandpa. It is a 1923 Maxwell. It has been stored in a shop for over 50 years. I have the title. I think it is definitely restorable, but not something I have the time or expertise to do.

 

I know that the crank turns, so the engine is not ceased up. The Tires are all flat so I assume any buyer would have to get new tires.

 

Here are some pics... any help to figure out where to start is much appreciated. I have no idea how to even figure out a price at this point.

[F&J]

This should be an interesting thread with broad estimates..

 

Yes, it is very restorable, and very complete.  A growing number of people seem to be OK with doing the mechanicals over, and clean the body/interior and run it that way.

 

The bad news is that the age falls into the era that has never been a hugely sought after grouping, unless something very out of the ordinary.

 

I'm not up on the era, so I can't price it, but you face a very spotty market.  The age of people who liked that era, are too old to take another, or have passed away.  Also, in some areas of the USA, there is something dark going on financially, as I can now buy a tiny, beater home on a small lot, for less that the price of a new, average car.  When I bought my first one like that, as a single young guy in 1975 when home mortgages required a minimum 25% cash down, (which really killed the prices), I had to pay 4.5 times what the average new car cost then.

 

Just letting you know, that I sense something going on that will eventually completely kill the old car market for restorables, or less popular restored ones, etc.

[mercer09]

I would sell your car on ebay and start the bidding at 5000.

 

my opinion.

[JV Puleo]

ebay may be your best option... at least it will get extremely wide exposure. But, to optimize this, pull it out of the garage and pump up the tires... they will probably hold air, if only for an hour or two. Take a lot of photos... and not just intense closeups that show a few square inches. Left and right views of the whole car, the engine compartment on both sides and then some of the small bits like the intact, original tail light. If there are areas of damage show them and be up front about it. In a case like this, saying it turns over but that you haven't started it is fine. Any decent mechanic should be able to get it running but any knowledgeable buyer would want the pan off and the sump cleaned BEFORE it ran. Also... get GOOD photos — not fuzzy cell phone pictures. If you don't have a good camera, find someone who does and pay them a few bucks for their effort... you will almost certainly get it back in price and make actually selling it that much easier.

 

As F&J correctly says, this is not an era that has ever been extremely popular but no one is taking early 20s cars to the scrap yard because no one wants them. Yours is really in excellent condition in the context of original, untampered with and complete. A lot of people, myself included, really like that. Oddly enough, It would probably sell better in Europe where original condition has long been appreciated so don't be surprised if you get questioned about an overseas sale.

 

Personally, I'd start at $5,000 and make it clear it's a "no reserve" auction. A bidder who knows that the high bidder is going to take it home is much more likely to bid enthusiastically.

 

If, for some reason, you'd prefer not to use ebay, use those good photographs for an ad on "PreWarCar.com" PWC is a Dutch site with a world-wide readership and the owners of it are very fond of unrestored cars like yours so it will get the best possible international exposure.

 

Good luck,

 

[Guest Vanight]

Hey guys! Wow, what a quick and great response! Yeah, I already put it on craigslist and have 2 guys asking me how much I want. I think I will pull it, and keep their info. Going the ebay route is a great idea. Not sure why I didnt think of that! Maybe I will get lucky and someone here will know exactly what the car IS. The title says "TO". I assume that means Touring, but in some of the sites that have maxwells listed, there is no TO option.

 

Thanks again!

 

David

[Grimy]

3 minutes ago, Vanight said:

I assume that means Touring, but in some of the sites that have maxwells listed, there is no TO option.

Yes, that's the DMV's abbreviation for 'Touring,' and 'Touring' or 'Touring car' is how you should describe the body style.  Check under the seats, or inside door pockets, for 'side curtains' (should be four), which attach to the individual doors for rain protection.  Please handle them carefully, for any remaining celluloid (since superseded by clear soft plastic) will be very brittle and fragile.  If you have the side curtains, photograph them on the ground against a contrasting background such as a tarp.  And if you find a jack and/or other tools, lay them out neatly and photograph them, too.

[mike6024]

By all means pull it off of CraigsList!

[Guest Vanight]

Thanks so much you guys. Computers, guitars, and guns I know. Classic cars I know not. I will take my canon camera up to the farm and do as you say. Should have new pics up on google by Friday or Saturday. Thanks again!

 

Here is a link to the google photo album I setup for this: https://goo.gl/photos/Mx8BW6oLuKiVHqtb8

 

Cheers,

 

David

[nick8086]

List it in old car or

 

http://autoroundup.com/

 

 

[1937hd45]

What a nice car! Everyone has given you great advice, don't clean it, that as found "Barn Find" look means a lot to many future bidders. It is sad that this era of cars is overlooked. This is the car Jack Benny always joked about, of course most people are clueless as to who he was today. One of the finest 1923 Maxwells was in the Bill Harrah Collection, hope this photo and info is of some help to you. eBay and PerWarCar.com would be your best bet, and it most likely will find a new home in Europe. Bob

[Rogerrabbit]

Do you have an idea of how much you want for the car?

[Rusty_OToole]

The touring car, like yours, was the most popular body style at that time. Probably half the cars on the road were touring cars. The sedan or closed car was just becoming popular.  The change came about rather quickly. In another 5 years the sedan was the most popular, and touring cars were seldom seen.

[60FlatTop]

Take the paint can off the running board and the tools off the fender. Just do a few simple things to make it look like someone actually cared for the car. Right now it fits with the rusty hub cap collection of the wall.

The condition sends out a strong message that some octogenarian bought it from a friend who needed money and just left it sitting.

 

When I go into the grocery store and see dirty vegetables I don't think "Oh, boy, fresh from the farm."

Bernie

[28 Chrysler]

When taking photos get  some photos that show 3 wheels all at the same, ( front left & right rear) These make for very good overall shots.

[JFranklin]

There were Maxwells, and GOOD Maxwells, does anyone know what category this one falls into? Just curious.

Edited May 4, 2017 by JFranklin (see edit history)

[Guest Vanight]

Woke up late this morning fellas. Thank you everyone for all the great feedback. I definitely need to take different pictures. The cool thing is that my dad installed a car sized roll up door in place of the regular man-size walk thru door that was off to the side of the shop. There are poles that make it very tricky to maneuver anything of size into the center area to access the primary roll up door. Thanks to the new door, I just need to clear the area directly in front of the Maxwell, hopefully get the tires to hold some air, and I can roll it straight ahead and outside. Then I can take some really great pictures.

 

You guys think I could get $10,000.00 for her? That's what I was hoping. Need to get my hands on $15000.00 between the Maxwell, and the 1973 Oldsmobile Ninety-eight I have. Oh yeah, did I mention I have a 1973 Olds 98 for sale too? (Another gift from Grampa) She runs, and sounds awesome at idle, but something is really messed up with the timing. When I step on it, it just bogs down. I think its the automatic timing advance functionality that is messed up. Also, in trying to fix the timing I think I messed it up worse. I have been doing it all from youtube videos. Sorry off topic, so I will make a new thread for the Olds.

[Guest Vanight]

5 hours ago, Rogerrabbit said:

Do you have an idea of how much you want for the car?

Hi Roger, at this time I really have no idea how much she's worth, which is why I am here. LOL. How much are you offering?

[Guest Vanight]

1 hour ago, 28 Chrysler said:

When taking photos get  some photos that show 3 wheels all at the same, ( front left & right rear) These make for very good overall shots.

Great idea! Needless to say, I am a musician and techie, NOT a photographer. LOL. Your advice is noted! 

[Guest Vanight]

2 hours ago, 60FlatTop said:

Take the paint can off the running board and the tools off the fender. Just do a few simple things to make it look like someone actually cared for the car. Right now it fits with the rusty hub cap collection of the wall.

The condition sends out a strong message that some octogenarian bought it from a friend who needed money and just left it sitting.

 

When I go into the grocery store and see dirty vegetables I don't think "Oh, boy, fresh from the farm."

Bernie

Hi Bernie,

 

You make a great point. I guess I was going for rustic. :-\ 

 

Too rustic I guess... 

[Guest Vanight]

3 hours ago, Rusty_OToole said:

The touring car, like yours, was the most popular body style at that time. Probably half the cars on the road were touring cars. The sedan or closed car was just becoming popular.  The change came about rather quickly. In another 5 years the sedan was the most popular, and touring cars were seldom seen.

 

I think that is good news... I hope. Thanks!

[Guest Vanight]

11 hours ago, 1937hd45 said:

What a nice car! Everyone has given you great advice, don't clean it, that as found "Barn Find" look means a lot to many future bidders. It is sad that this era of cars is overlooked. This is the car Jack Benny always joked about, of course most people are clueless as to who he was today. One of the finest 1923 Maxwells was in the Bill Harrah Collection, hope this photo and info is of some help to you. eBay and PerWarCar.com would be your best bet, and it most likely will find a new home in Europe. Bob

Hi Bob, wow, what a cool book! $885 - That just blows my mind. Curious, does the buyer typically pay the cost to ship a car internationally? I imagine that cost is significant. What is that book called and where did you get it?

[John_S_in_Penna]

18 hours ago, Vanight said:

...You guys think I could get $10,000.00 for her? That's what I was hoping. ...

 

No, sorry to say.  If you get $5000, be happy, because

you may not get that amount either.  Many cars, as with

other collectible items, have modest values, even though

the general public doesn't realize that.

 

And to save yourself lots of valuable time, please price the cars

at what they are worth, not at the $15,000 you need to get.

Otherwise, you'll spend months and months of relistings and

get nowhere.  The market is so-so, and for cars of that era,

as someone said, the number of interested people is not large.

 

All the best to you on your sale!  I hope your car finds a good home.

Picture your car going to a caring hobbyist who will carry on

what your grandfather started.

 

Edited May 5, 2017 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[John_S_in_Penna]

13 minutes ago, Vanight said:

...Curious, does the buyer typically pay the cost to ship a car internationally? I imagine that cost is significant. ...

 

Interest in your car could come from anywhere, since antique cars

are scattered around the country.  A dependable enclosed transport

may cost $1500 from Texas to the East Coast, for example.

 

Yes, the buyer is expected to arrange and pay for all of his own transportation,

whether it's 10 miles away or across an ocean.  You should state that

in your Ebay listing, as nearly everyone does.  That will save misunderstanding--

and save you some time, too!

Edited May 4, 2017 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[Restorer32]

It costs about the same to ship a car to Europe as it does to ship one to California. 

[Restorer32]

Assuming you are on the East Coast of course.

[60FlatTop]

About 10 years ago I had a Jaguar shipped open from Federal Way to the Buffalo New York area for $1700 and considered it a bargain price. The car would probably blow apart in open transport. I would figure close to $1.00 per mile enclosed and not running.

Ar that time I was shipping 40' containers from Port Elizabeth, New Jersey with two cars inside to Gutenberg, Sweden for $2500. Shipping single will add to the cost. Hopefully, that title went into your name in '07. If not, get it in your name. Post-9/11 shipping has become difficult in some instances.

 

I see the note about the keys is signed by a W. P., another guy with W. P. initials bought a whole bunch of Maxwells around that time.... if only.

 

If you want to resist the idea of cleaning the car, something that has had a great return for me, at least pick up the stuff piled on the car. I'd buy three or four grade schoolers ice cream and let them sit on the seats just to clean then up without looking like a detail job. Grand children are great to send home after doing that, or a few nieces and nephews.

 

If you accidentally get it too clean to call a barn find I can send you a couple of vacuum cleaner bags I set aside for my Wife to shake on my cars if I die. You can have them and I'll make a couple more.

 

I think you have a great opportunity with this car if you start a journal of the selling experience from a plain folks view (not a car collector). It is going to be a learning experience and the book could be a best seller.

Good luck, Bernie      Let me know if you need those vacuum cleaner bags!

Edited May 4, 2017 by 60FlatTop (see edit history)

[1937hd45]

Yes, buyer pays for shipping out of state or county. Sold one to Italy a few years ago, easiest sale I've ever had. Buyer arranged everything and the rollback arrived 15 minutes before he said it would. Sure hope that sells for more than ten grand.  Bob

[Guest BillP]

I've sold old Porsches, both cars and parts, and there is always a lot of European interest. The last two Porsches, a 356 and an early 911, went to Belgium and Germany, respectively. The sales and shipment were painless as Bob says. I generally advertise in marque-specific websites, although I get some action from Hemmings as well. For this Maxwell, PreWarCars seems to be the most pertinent and it has a lot of reach.

[1937hd45]

Jores, the founder and webmaster of PreWarcar.com comes to Hershey every year, great guy and website. Bob

[mike6024]

They have 2 Maxwells listed for sale now including this one.

http://www.prewarcar.com/classifieds/ad196182.html

http://www.rcc.on.net/RCC/RCC.asp?Type=Vehicle&SitePageId=838

 

Details for Maxwell Good Maxwell Tourer 1925 for sale
Make:    Maxwell
Type:    Good Maxwell
Coach:    Tourer
Year:    1925
Price:    AUS 18950

Edited May 5, 2017 by mike6024 (see edit history)

[mercer09]

 

No, sorry to say.  If you get $5000, be happy, because

you may not get that amount either.  Many cars, as with

other collectible items, have modest values, even though

the general public doesn't realize that.

 

And to save yourself lots of valuable time, please price the cars

at what they are worth, not at the $15,000 you need to get.

Otherwise, you'll spend months and months of relistings and

get nowhere.  The market is so-so, and for cars of that era,

as someone said, the number of interested people is not large.

 

All the best to you on your sale!  I hope your car finds a good home.

Picture your car going to a caring hobbyist who will carry on

what your father started.

 

 

x2! well said John

 

greed will leave you stuck with this car and the other, if you are not realistic..................

 

[John_S_in_Penna]

6 hours ago, mike6024 said:

They have 2 Maxwells listed for sale now including this one.

 

 

One important lesson is never to judge your asking price

by other people's ASKING prices.  The market, regretfully,

is full of overpriced cars, most often by dealers, but sometimes

by optimistic and unknowledgeable sellers.  I've seen cars remain

unsold for 4 years at dealers'--or else they quietly sell them for 

less to another dealer, or else auction them to get fresh inventory.

SELLING prices are what count, such as those demonstrated on Ebay.

 

Another thing to know:  You almost never make money by

putting money into a car.  Some newcomers think, "Well, I'll just

do this and that and that--spend $2000 and make $5000 more."

It's almost always the opposite:  Spend $5000 and make $2000 more!

Edited May 5, 2017 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[Akstraw]

"There were Maxwells, and GOOD Maxwells, does anyone know what category this one falls into? Just curious. Edited 22 hours ago by JFranklin (see edit history)  " 

 

Somewhere around 1919-1921 (I need to check the year), the Maxwells developed a reputation for having a fragile rear end.  I think the axles would break rather easily.  The cars got a reputation for being shoddy.  When Maxwell fixed the problem, they launched an advertising campaign to emphasize that the era of shoddiness was behind them.  The term "Good Maxwell" was created and used by the company itself as part of this campaign to get beyond the axle issue.  I think the lingering bad blood surrounding the Maxwell name contributed to Walter Chrysler's decision to re-name it the "Chrysler Four", and eventually "Plymouth" several years later.  This particular one would be a "good" Maxwell.

 

This looks like a nice car; relatively complete, and not banged up.  I agree with the comments above about touring cars being most desirable, the early twenties not being the most popular era with collectors, and the advice about photography and presentation.  Also recommend photos of the engine compartment.  On cars of this age, the condition of the wooden substructure of the body has a big impact on value.  A tight, sturdy wooden structure makes it a good candidate to use as-is, or restore; while a rotted, flimsy substructure presents a challenge, and could reduce it to "parts car" status.  With a reasonably solid body, I would value this car in the $4000 to $8000 range.  I also agree with the advice to start with $10,000 on a classified ad and come down, or try $4000 or $5000 to start on eBay and go up.

 

Good luck.  Is the car in Oregon?

 

Andrew

[60FlatTop]

3 hours ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

Another thing to know:  You almost never make money by

putting money into a car.

 

You make your money when you buy the car, if making money is the intent. Sometimes one buys from a seller needing fast cash, space, even money for legal fees.  Sometimes you just happen to be the 212th person to ring the door bell and the frustrated seller doesn't want to deal with it one minute more.

Unless I really want a car, I will buy an under-priced one and add my value through promotion and finding a buyer. Sometimes the value in that can be overlooked. That person who answered the door for the 212th times has an idea.

There is another type of purchase I look at as passing on custodianship. I pay extra, in fact all my best cars cost me market value or more. Those are cars cared for by the previous owner and passed on for continued care. Yours was merely owned for a long time. It wasn't cared for or held on a pedestal. There won't be a transfer of custodianship. It will be someones dream project or bought for quick sale for someone who knows a buyer. Neither one is a big spender.

 

I'm trying to think back over all the collector cars I have sold and if my "value added" ever amounted to more than marketing or cleaning. Maybe a battery. Otherwise I would have to say no.

 

I remember, 25 years ago, my Brother In Law was visiting with my Wife's sister. I had a 1937 Buick for sale that I had never tried to start. It was a single sidemount 2 door, and I knew it was going to be restored or street rodded, running didn't matter. But, Gordon couldn't understand that. And while I wives talked I obliged him by trying to get it running. He was quite frustrated by my lack of enthusiasm. When they returned to Vermont he called and asked if I got it started. I told him no and gave him a case of the blind stutters.

 

Marketing a product, new or used, is work and has great value. Be sure to put your thoughts and experiences in that journal. If not a best seller, it will be an heirloom.

Bernie

[Grimy]

14 minutes ago, 60FlatTop said:

There is another type of purchase I look at as passing on custodianship. I pay extra, in fact all my best cars cost me market value or more. Those are cars cared for by the previous owner and passed on for continued care.

Amen!  Those are the cars we buy to keep for years, to improve as we go, to tour with, and thoroughly enjoy!  Time and inflation will make it LOOK like we made money, but usually not so much if calculated in terms of Constant Dollars.  Such are the thoughts of hobbyists as opposed to those flipping cars for income.

 

Even dyed-in-the-wool hobbyists sometimes bail out of a car below market, perhaps (1) for space and money for a new acquisition, (2) because it requires more work that we can put into it in the foreseeable future, (3) because that car no longer excites us the way it once did, (4) two or more of the above.

 

If we've had a car for a long time, we are delighted when a Perfect Next Custodian appears to take over the project.  In 2010, I sold a 1939 Cadillac 75 7-p sedan I'd had for 42 years to a good friend and neighbor who has indeed become the Perfect Next Custodian, who loves and has vastly improved the car, and intends to keep it as long as he can fog a mirror.  And I get to caress Florence Fleetwood's flanks and even drive her occasionally!  In the words of Candide, this is the best of all possible worlds.

[victorialynn2]

Vanight,

These guys have helped me sell several cars and learn about many others. I inherited about a dozen antique cars ranging from a 1924 T to a 1979 Lincoln. They are giving you good advice for both pricing and marketing. 

I sold most on eBay and good quality pictures are a must, including the undercarriage. Rust is a big concern. You can always put the eBay link on other sites to promote the auction as well. (AACA, Facebook Antique Car Groups, etc). Look into the additional sites they suggested and if the listing fees are not high (or free), you might consider cross posting. I sold one on eBay to  someone who saw a link I put in a classic car group on Facebook. And a couple to local people through word of mouth once I had a fair value established (Thanks to these guys and a few collector friends). The rest were eBay sales and went well and attracted a good price. 

Good luck on your sale. BTW, I'm from Oregon as well, Yamhill Valley. Where is the car located?

 

Edited May 6, 2017 by victorialynn2 (see edit history)

[John_S_in_Penna]

On 5/4/2017 at 0:30 AM, Vanight said:

Hey guys! Wow, what a quick and great response! Yeah, I already put it on craigslist and have 2 guys asking me how much I want. I think I will pull it, and keep their info. Going the ebay route is a great idea.

 

David, you know the old proverb:  A bird in the hand

is worth two in the bush.  Why not deal directly with

two potential buyers that you ALREADY have?

Keep your expectations modest, and both you and they will win.

Edited May 6, 2017 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[60FlatTop]

A few years ago I got a call from the owner of a car who wanted me to market the car online. My job was to visit his location, take detailed pictures of the car, and describe it, and pay any fees. Once I marketed it, he wanted me to handle the fiduciary side and hand him the cash at the end of the deal.

I told him that I would do all he asked for a $300 non-refundable fee plus 6% of the selling price of the car. This conversation took place over the phone. The car was a street rod that he wanted $85,000 for.

 

His wife was listening on the extension line. I can only picture Chucky's girlfriend when I remember the conversation. I think she sat in kerosene.

 

It takes work, skill,and knowledge just to market. Handling the money is not an "under the table" thing.

 

He made the unsolicited phone call. My preference is to just buy a car when someone wants to sell. And do it myself.

 

I'm just thinking about how easy my Wife is to get along with, but then, we don't have an extension phone any more.

Bernie

[trimacar]

The interesting comment in this, the seller "needs" $15K, so states that is what he needs out of the two cars.

 

With all due respect, what one "needs" to sell a car for is totally irrelevant.  It matters not one iota.

 

What matters is year, make, condition.  I would agree that this car is a $5K car, needing a lot of work to break into five digits value.  Shame, but that's the market.

 

Good luck with sale and hope you find it a good home....

[dibarlaw]

Dave:

 Your opinion on the top. You mentioned on another post about the early original tops having a light colored interior face as this one does. One may hope to find a car with an original top to be serviceable but of course this does not look like this one would be. Worn spots, a few holes. To me it looks to have been re-topped in the 1950s when it went back on the road for a while (1956 Oregon plate). I know that Stitts had an article from the 1950s on "re-topping the open car". I believe some of the material he had used in the photos had the light inside face.

I will have to dig out the article.

Larry