What do you think is the rarest regular production car you've ever seen?

[alsancle]

I was specifically commenting on the 427 4 speed quote.   That was never made hence my question.  I'm well aware of the GTE as I owned one.

[padgett]

"If an option was only installed on 5% of the 15k made, that is rare."

 

(Includes part of the previous year)

 

Edited March 17, 2016 by padgett (see edit history)

[Modeleh]

All the literature that I have read said all the GTE Cougars with the 427 were automatics only the 428s had manual transmission. Anyways it's a rare one and with a sunroof to boot.

[Modeleh]

A friend of mine has a 1930 Nash twin 8 rumble seat coupe. I have done a lot of online searches and have only found one other, so there is likely only a handful left

[TerryB]

I worked at a gas station after school in the late 1960s. A woman who owned a bar down the street would come in to get bags of ice for use at the bar. I put them in the trunk of her car for her. It was a red 1969 Chevelle. The headrests had big white letters with YSC on them. Yep 1969 Yenko 427 Chevelle, one of only 99 built as it turns out. I often wonder what ever happened to the car.

Terry

[Guest GT52]

I worked at a gas station after school in the late 1960s. A woman who owned a bar down the street would come in to get bags of ice for use at the bar. I put them in the trunk of her car for her. It was a red 1969 Chevelle. The headrests had big white letters with YSC on them. Yep 1969 Yenko 427 Chevelle, one of only 99 built as it turns out. I often wonder what ever happened to the car.

Terry

Great story.  You could post here: http://www.yenko.net/ .  With so few built, and with a very active registry, it isn't out of the question that someone may recognize the original owner based on location, color, etc...especially if the car still exists.

 

Growing up in southeast PA, seeing Yenko and Baldwin-Motion cars was not all that unusual, and I wouldn't have guessed they were as rare as they were.  I've seen a number of Yenko Chevelles, Camaros, and Novas.  What I have never seen is a Yenko Corvair.  I would guess that people who lived near Chicago saw a lot of Nickey cars, and didn't actually realize how rare they were.

[=diego=]

Padgett, I think you'd appreciate this....

[8E45E]

On ‎2016‎-‎03‎-‎17 at 2:52 PM, Modeleh said:

All the literature that I have read said all the GTE Cougars with the 427 were automatics only the 428s had manual transmission. Anyways it's a rare one and with a sunroof to boot.

When I worked at a gas station in the 1970's, a customer would come in with a 1968 Cougar with a sunroof. It was maroon with a black vinyl top.  I never looked under the hood, or noticed the actual model name, but 'XR7-G' rings a bell.

Craig

Edited March 19, 2016 by 8E45E (see edit history)

[Guest GT52]

6 hours ago, 8E45E said:

When I worked at a gas station in the 1970's, a customer would come in with a 1968 Cougar with a sunroof. It was maroon with a black vinyl top.  I never looked under the hood, or noticed the actual model name, but 'XR7-G' rings a bell.

Craig

Yes, the "G" was for Gurney, as in Dan Gurney.  I remember a magazine test of a 428 Cobra Jet version back when they were new...the full model call out was XR7-G GT CJ.  Must be the most numbers/letters to identify a car ever!

[padgett]

Thank you, that is Interesting except mine was not an L75 so must have been "other" with M20 (wide ratio) and C60 (have a predilection for a manual transmission and AC).

455 (L75) in '70 had some real oiling problems and got a bad reputation for dropping cranks. The '71 455 HO fixed that and was a very powerful round port engine but was a hard sell because of the '70 problems.

BTW the M13 was a Ford.

ps FIAT Abarth 750 Zagato Bialbero "Double Bubble". Name was longer than the car.

pps XR7s had a clock in the glove box door.

Edited March 20, 2016 by padgett (see edit history)

[cheezestaak2000]

when i worked at the GM plant in wilmington, one of my co-workers had a 1957 pontiac bonneville convertable as a daily driver. the 2 things i remember most about it was the fuel injection, but it was also the oldest car i ever saw with factory bucket seats

[=diego=]

On March 19, 2016 at 11:30 AM, GT52 said:

Yes, the "G" was for Gurney, as in Dan Gurney.  I remember a magazine test of a 428 Cobra Jet version back when they were new...the full model call out was XR7-G GT CJ.  Must be the most numbers/letters to identify a car ever!

The XR7-G and the GT were independent - they could not be combined, as far as I know. The CJ did not require the GT package.

[smithbrother]

The RAREST Cougar in 1968, and actually EVER, was the 68 GT-E, I owned one new, it had a 427-side oiler with a C-6 tranny.  Advertised at 365 H.P. which most experts said that was a conservative rating. 

One sold on BJ 3-4 years ago for $182,000.00.

The E originally was for Edsel Ford, engineers put it together for his BD, Nascar said the engine could be in a race car, IF MERCURY SOLD AT LEAST 500 FOR STREET USE.  The 427-side oiler went in less than 400 cars, then they switched to the 428.  The 427-side oiler was to expensive for production, that's the reason for the 428.  

Try  to find a 427-side oiler block alone, and if you can find one, expect to pay a very heavy price.

Then when the 69's came out Mercury said the 'E' was for Eliminator , Edsel didn't want his name on the car, who knows why.

I paid a tad over $5,200.00 for mine, site unseen, the grill and tail light trim was blacked out, and under the lower side fender moldings it was painted silver. 

Google images of 68 GT-E to see pictures of such.

Dale in Indy  

 

 

[=diego=]

 

40 minutes ago, smithbrother said:

Then when the 69's came out Mercury said the 'E' was for Eliminator , Edsel didn't want his name on the car, who knows why.

 

Probably because the "E" didn't stand for "Edsel."

And there was no GT-E in 1969 - there simply was the Cougar GT (more properly called the "351 Performance Package" if I'm correct) and the Eliminator, both of which came standard with the 351/290.

But if you truly want to consider the rarest 1968 Cougar, try finding a GT-E with the Cobra Jet - it's much rarer than the 427 GT-E. In fact, most CJ Cougars (the others are base, XR-7, base GT, XR-7 GT, or XR7-G) are rarer than the 427 GT-E in general.

Edited March 22, 2016 by =diego= (see edit history)

[smithbrother]

Do some research on sales of the 428, there is no way the 428 is more valuable than the 427, period.

The only way the 68 428 GT-E could be considered rarer, is because they were produced at the end of the 68 production period, there were LESS 428's than 427-side oilers.  

If I remember correct, the 428 was not used in NASCAR, the 427 was prefered.

The name COBRA JET was an impressive name, but the 427 was the better engine.  The 427 was basically a hand

assembled engine and thus costly to build.

You are correct, 69 didn't produce any GT-E cars.

Dale in indy

 

[=diego=]

 

1 minute ago, smithbrother said:

Do some research on sales of the 428, there is no way the 428 is more valuable than the 427, period.

 

So we're talking about value now?

But if you insist:

http://owlshead.org/auctions/detail/1968-mercury-cougar-gte-xr7-428-c.j.-4-speed

By the way, the 427 was rated at 390 horses.

 

1 minute ago, smithbrother said:

The only way the 68 428 GT-E could be considered rarer, is because they were produced at the end of the 68 production period, there were LESS 428's than 427-side oilers.  

It may surprise you to learn that the 427 and 428 were produced concurrently. It goes against conventional wisdom, but that's what Ford did according to Marti Auto Works.

 

 

[smithbrother]

GOOGLE HISTORY OF THE 1968 GT-E, and learn the 'E' was for EDSEL.

YES, the 428 is a valuable piece, but I have never heard of one selling for as much as the 427, considering cars in like condition.  The car you show, was an estimate of value, the one I mentioned was an actual sale.

 Visit the Cougar forum, pose questions regarding both the 427 & 428, and learn from those in the know.  

The papers with my 427 said 365 HP, but as I stated, that at that time it was considered low, and Hot Rod said that was low, so your number of 390 could be right.

On drag strip, for the most part the driver was the difference.  

Dale in indy 

[alsancle]

There were very few GTEs produced at the end with the 428CJ so a GTE with the CJ is more rare than the GTE with the 428.  However you could get a CJ in a regular cougar so that really just made the GTE part a trim package.  

The 427 equipped cars are especially cherished but unfortunately ford detuned them radically.  They had tiny 390 intake and carb along with 390 exhaust.  The cam was detuned also.  Add in the fact that many came with an open rear and you have a car that was really just for homologation. Still very cool but probably not as fast as the much more mundane CJ.

[=diego=]

11 minutes ago, smithbrother said:

GOOGLE HISTORY OF THE 1968 GT-E, and learn the 'E' was for EDSEL.

The folks who run the GT-E registry have a different opinion:

http://gte.mercurycougarregistry.com/history/

Ya gotta wonder why Mercury would name a special GT after Edsel, years after he died and 10 years after the debut of America's most famous automotive turkeys.

Edited March 22, 2016 by =diego= (see edit history)

[alsancle]

Here are a couple of pictures of my old GTE.   Note that with the XR7 option they still built 256 with the 427.   Rare I guess but not super rare.  I always thought it was a shame Ford detuned them so much.  Note my car didn't have the posi which also annoyed me.  Who ever thought of a musclecar with no posi?

[alsancle]

This was my other Cougar.  Much more rare than the 427 car.  One of 31 CJ/4 speed convertibles in 69.   I sold it to a gentleman down in Texas that did a fantastic restoration.

[Guest GT52]

On ‎3‎/‎22‎/‎2016 at 6:28 PM, =diego= said:

The XR7-G and the GT were independent - they could not be combined, as far as I know. The CJ did not require the GT package.

Not that it really matters, but I think you'll find that there were base model Cougars and XR7 Cougars, and you could order either one as a GT (or GT-E), and you could order either one with a 428CJ...so an XR7 with GT equipment and a 428CJ would certainly be possible.  I think you're right that a 428CJ would not require the GT package on the Cougar, although the 68-1/2 428CJ Mustangs did require the GT package (original 50 race cars excepted).  

 

I don't pretend to know much about an XR7G, but I very distinctly remember that magazine test I cited, specifically because of the huge string of letters/numbers used to designate the model.  My guess is that test was in Super Stock and Drag Illustrated or Popular Hot Rodding, if anyone has a collection...although I could be wrong about that.

[smithbrother]

My GT-E was a base model, with the 427.   When they first were offered to the public, ONLY the 427 was available.  Then when the decision to stop production of the 427 and offer the 428, a few 427's engines were still built, so they were put in GT-E cars.  From info I gathered, you couldn't order one or the other, less than a month of 427's were produced at the same time the 428's were being assembled.  Never was the plan to offer BOTH engines as customer choice. 

 

Mine as a base model Cougar makes it more rare, mine was Black Cherry with same interior.  It was delivered to the Battle Creek, Mickigan dealer.  At the time I was an executive of Tractor Supply Co., and we sold add on air conditioners for farm tractors that had a cab installed.  I was able to purchase a unit from them that they produced for the car market. All I needed to do was fab a bracket for the compressor. It worked great, I also made a bracket that mounted close to the compressor belt to prevent it from climbing up and off the pulley, that solved that issue.

 

I also welded a trailor hitch on the car, and used the car as my tow car for a landscape business I and a neighbor owned.  At that time most were NOT aware of what was going to happen in the market of high HP cars.

 

Also I recall that engineers did install a 427 in a 1967 Cougar as a surprise birthday gift to Edsel Ford, and the E was in his honor.  I have a printout of that in my collection, but haven't found it at this writing.

 

My GT-E has not been found, we believe it ended up in Canada, but don't really know.

 

Dale in Indy

 

 

 

 

 

[smithbrother]

After talking with a car guy a  minute ago, he said the 67 Cougar with the 427 was built for Edsel's first son, someone had commented that Edsel himself had died in the 40's so certainly wasn't him, hehe

 

I still hope to find the article I have detailing the ' REAL STORY ', Lol

 

Dale in Indy

[=diego=]

Write to these people - with the info you provide, you may be able to discover whether your old ride still exists:

 

http://gte.mercurycougarregistry.com/contact/

 

Also, there's one 1968 427 Cougar that was NOT a GT-E. Car is in TX and I don't think it's known how it came to be, but certainly a more knowledgable Cougar guy may be able to correct me.

 

 

[alsancle]

6 minutes ago, =diego= said:

 

6 minutes ago, =diego= said:

Write to these people - with the info you provide, you may be able to discover whether your old ride still exists:

 

http://gte.mercurycougarregistry.com/contact/

 

Also, there's one 1968 427 Cougar that was NOT a GT-E. Car is in TX and I don't think it's known how it came to be, but certainly a more knowledgable Cougar guy may be able to correct me.

 

 

That is definitely news to me on the non GTE 427 car.  Would love to see the Marti report on that.  Also, have never heard of the 67 with the 427 engine.  I hope they have lots of paper work on that one too!

 

 

 

[=diego=]

I don't think the '67 mentioned is a real 427 car - if it truly existed, it prob received a 427 after it was built. Certainly the VIN didn't show a 427.

[mrspeedyt]

at the risk of sounding like I'm stupid... I have to say my 1968 Chevy Impala wagon. what i mean is when's the last time you saw one on the street or at a show? and they probably built a few hundred thousand.

[smithbrother]

I recall the 67 was a car built to regular standards, then the engineers took it from the line, swapped the engine with a 427, and other mods.

 

I was heavy with the Cougar site years ago, research such and you will see a lengthy discussion on my car, so I don't need to go there for info.  Nice group, filled with good info. 

 

Funny thing, when I first joined the Cougar site, I told them of my GT-E, and stated I bought it in Saginaw, Michigan.  Well within minutes they replied, SAGINAW NEVER RECEIVED A GT-E, so your car must have been a CLONE.  Then I explained, that I dealt with the Saginaw dealer, who made a trade  with Battle Creek for the car I purchased, I drove with the dealer from Saginaw to Battle Creek to pick up the car.  Then the Cougar site, said, YES, BATTLE CREEK RECEIVED TWO GT-E cars.  Further questions about my car confirmed it was an actual GT-E.  Questions like, DID IT HAVE OUTSIDE MIRRORS ON BOTH SIDES, DID IT HAVE A PAINTED TOP, those and other questions I answered, proved I was a GT-E owner.  Cougar had/has good records, so they agreed my car was the real thing.

 

I don't claim to be an EXPERT, but have lots of GT-E info., learning more as time moves on. 

 

As far as the GT-E being a rare car, well, that's a subject many will argue, in my book ALL GT-E's are rare.  You have the freedom to feel different, that's fine with me.

 

Dale in Indy
 

[Guest GT52]

16 hours ago, smithbrother said:

...As far as the GT-E being a rare car, well, that's a subject many will argue, in my book ALL GT-E's are rare...

 

I wouldn't disagree with that, although, even as 427 Mercurys go there are far rarer.  60 1967 427 Comets...and 83, 64, and 7 Full size Mercurys for 1963, '64, '65 respectively.  I personally would consider all of them to be rare.  There are people who present a good argument though that all of them are just low production sub-models of extremely common cars...Cougars, Comets, and full size Mercurys.

 

If you buy that argument then a rare car would be something like a Pantera, total production about 6000...or a Bricklin SV1, total production of about 3000...or a Shelby Cobra, total production of about 1000.  There is some merit to the argument.  Most of us saw thousands of Cougars back in the day, but can count the Cobras on one hand. 

[PONTIAC1953]

well i have judge a tucker at a concourse de elegance car show in the 1980's one of only 51. i have help with restoration work on 1953 chevy corvette one of only 300, most likely the rarest car that i have owned was a 1971 chevy monte carlo SS454, one of only 1919 built.

[padgett]

Might have bought one if the SS454 had been available with a four speed.

[ted sweet]

71 hemi challenger r/t 4 speed

[Harold]

Might not be real rare, or even considered by some to be a production car, but in the late 1950's or thereabouts I saw a King Midget being driven down my street in Brooklyn.  Sounded like a lawnmower and the guy driving it was almost as big as the car.

[1935Packard]

A guy who lives near me has a 1935 Packard Twelve convertible coupe.   According to the Packard Club's Roster Keeper, Packard built just 52 of that particular model. His is #47. It's a driver, and he drives it anywhere when the weather is nice, including to the grocery store and to local shows. 

[Restorer32]

We are restoring a 1909 ONLY built on Long Island. The company built 14 cars before going bankrupt. Is 14 cars considered "production"?

[8E45E]

6 hours ago, Restorer32 said:

We are restoring a 1909 ONLY built on Long Island. The company built 14 cars before going bankrupt. Is 14 cars considered "production"?

If they were for sale to the public, yes.  If not, no.

 

Just before SAAB Automobile declared bankruptcy in 2011, they released photos and information on the restyled 2012 9.5 SportCombi station wagon.  Reportedly, 27 units were made for PR work and Federal certification in the countries around the world in which they were to be sold.  The receivers could NOT auction them off as 'production' cars as none of them were actually certified for sale, and some owners found them difficult to register in their county in which they lived.  More here----> http://9-5sc2012.com/

[nick8086]

  He just took this car to an aaca meet.. last week..

 

or

 

 

Edited March 30, 2016 by nick8086 (see edit history)

[real61ss]

What is it?

[padgett]

Dymaxion replica ? Running gear is something else though and much smaller. Note the rear wheels in pontoons.

Edited March 29, 2016 by padgett (see edit history)