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BCA Board of Directors Election - 2014


MrEarl

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Guest Jerry Courson

Matt - The bylaws, rules and regulations, and SOPs are in the final stages of being updated/revised. When the board finishing voting on the changes, the new documents will be posted on the website. In addition, hard copies will be available from the BCA Office.

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Guest Jerry Courson

Jack - After serving two three year terms, a director must sit out at least a year before running for office again. From my experience, it takes a little time on the board to "get into the swing." With a little break-in period, a newer director can successfully introduce new ideas and start making changes. I would not be against term limits, but I would couple limits with 4 year terms for a total of 8 years on the board. The negative on this is the years when we don't have sufficient candidates to fill the vacancies. The present board is a mix of "experienced" directors and "newer" directors. This mix seems to work. At times, there is value in having who knows the history on issues.

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Jerry: I do not disagree with you on any of this. All things considered, I think, I would be in favor of a two four year terms limit and that would be it, no sit out and re run. The down side to this is that many potential candidates may not want to commit to a four year term and that could limit potential candidates, especially among older members.

I am wondering why we have so many candidates this year and last year.

I also remember the days, when candidates had to be asked to run.

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The present term limits for the BOD seem to be working fine. It is strange that some years we cannot find 3 people to run and the next year we have several GOOD candidates. This year is an excellent example..... everyone running would serve us well.

I want to point out something that is not published but might be of interest to all members. Back before 2004 there were 3-4 meeting per year, but unlike our state and national elected officials, the BCA board decided that much of the business could be handled by phone or email and greatly reduce the cost of a Board meeting. The original reason for the larger number of Board meeting was to have the Board meet in areas that BCA members could attend and view the working of the club. If you have ever attended the Board meeting at a National meet, you may have been one of only a few people there.

The BOD members can be reimbursed up to a specified amount for their expenses attending a Board meeting. (See the Bylaws) The part that goes unpublished is that several of the Board members over the years have not submitted expense accounts for the Board meeting, this is a personal choice. The reimbursement needs to be there to encourage people to run for the Board as not everyone can afford to pay these expenses out of pocket. Furthermore, I do not think the BCA should identify the people that do or do not submit expense accounts and those identities remain undisclosed.

Edited by Barney Eaton (see edit history)
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Barney: I can remember the days before there was any stipend for expenses for Board Meetings. The idea behind moving the meetings to various locations was so that members could attend BOD meetings, and various Chapter would / could volunteer to host Board Meetings. The good thing about that is that members could attend those Board meetings and feel like they were a part of the Club. It is true that there is a savings to the BCA the way it is done now , but it would seem to be a less formal way of doing business and there do not seem to be any minutes distributed to the Chapters. There are many reasons for poor attendance during National Meets at the BOD meetings. The Nationals these days are crammed with events , including judging school and a general membership meeting. Given the cost of attending a National, many members want to spend time with friends and families, and attend the various tours, etc.

One way to encourage attendance at a BOD meeting might be to republish an agenda, so members may have some idea, when an item they have interest is being discussed. I know i have sat through several hours, including lunch break , waiting for a specific time to be discussed.

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I currently see issues being discussed in this forum and others about the various candidates and their views with the biggest concern being the National Meet parking. My stance is that the BCA National Meet is for the BCA members - not the judges. While there are some members that need their 400 point cars judged, most cars are entered so that the owners can engage other members with similar cars. This is an ideal opportunity to meet and share ideas, stories and sources. Therefore, for most, the point judging is secondary.

I believe that all cars should be parked on the show field in Era / All together parking. More importantly, I believe that every car that is entered in the show at a BCA National - no matter the class – should be parked on the main and only show field.

The showing and sharing is the thing – not the trophies. Moving some cars for the convenience of the judges, to the detriment of the owners is and should be foreign to the BCA.

Thanks for allowing me to share my $0.02 and I look forward to meeting everyone and sharing a wonderful National Meet in Portland in July!

Best regards

W. Duke Charpentier

BCA 40285

Ps – Yes that is me on the ballot even if my name is not spelled correctly.

Mr. Charpentier, I was curious what sorts of car events you planned and orchestrated, where the participants felt the judging was secondary to "the experience", as mentioned?

As an event planner, I suspect you intimately-know how important site selection can be, plus how it can impact the configuration of the event show field. Plus that other meet participants (i.e., swap meet vendors) ALSO have to be figured into the total use of the event's available space. "Location" is important to them, as they must cover their costs of travel and lodging to the event . . . put them "over there" and they'll not be back next year. For many attendees/participants, having nationally-recognized Buick parts/service vendors at the BCA National Meet is very important to them and the Buick hobby -- additionally, a valid reason for them to attend and participate in a BCA National Meet.

As a fellow car event planner, I know how important the judging function is to those who participate in that activity of the meet. Judging MUST run efficiently and expeditiously -- period. Reason is that, unlike many other car events, the total number of needed trophies/awards is totally variable from class to class to meet to meet, at a BCA National Meet. It delays the awards banquet when the event operatives have to suddenly build more 400 Point awards as they needed more than they constructed (as Kokomo, 1999). The presentation of awards MUST also run efficiently, during the awards banquet, too.

Several years ago, the Buicktown Chapter bid to host a BCA National Meet in Flint, MI (after the Centennial Meet). Everybody was excited about a return to Flint, UNTIL they found out the meet would be "non-judged" (as the earlier BCA NAtional Meets allegedly were). There were MANY comments in this forum stating that (the posters) would not attend a non-judged national meet as they wanted to see and compete with other Buicks in the 400 Point Judging System at that meet. Sans 400 Point Judging, no reason for them to get their car completed for the meet or even bring it . . . in their way of thinking. It took quite a bit of "marketing" to play up the "friends" orientation as a reason to attend a BCA National Meet, even a non-judged one, in this forum. Therefore, Mr. Charpentier, your orientation might lean more toward "non-judged meets" (or non-judged parts of national meets), but I was surprised at how many posts were made by BCA members who stated they would not come to a BCA National Meet if it was a non-judged meet (other than the non-judged 2003 Centennial Meet).

I'm also curious of your level of knowledge of the BCA 400 Point Judging System and its many intricacies? Additionally, what BCA-similar events you have planned and orchestrated? Just curious . . . no more, no less.

It sounds like you have many good attributes which might serve the National Meet Committee well. I've always felt the BCA BOD should have representation from all areas of North America, if possible. Diversity can be a good thing so long as it does not impede or hinder progress of the organization. The other side of the diversity situation has to do with the population presence of BCA members in various areas of the country . . . so some balancing might be needed -- several ways to look at that situation. Then, too, in a volunteer organization, regional diversity can become secondary to having enough people to populate the BCA BOD.

Just some thoughts and curiousities . . .

Willis Bell 20811

Edited by NTX5467 (see edit history)
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Willis: I agree with your comments. I believe a well run National meet can be all things to all people. Over the years, I have had the opportunity to participate at almost every level, from running Nationals to Chief judge to "undercarriage" judge, to vendor to car exhibitor. Many of our members have a very large investment in their automobiles, and receiving a National award from the BCA validates their restoration efforts and give the car a pedigree, especially a gold or senior award.

I have had my cars judged in 400 point judging and I have entered them in display only. For me it is more fun to enter in display only, for it takes the stress of having the car prepped for judging away (I do not have a trailer and probably never will).

I totally agree with your take on the vendors. All vendors do a huge service to our hobby by coming out to Meets, and often they do not even make their costs back. We as a Club should do all we can to ensure their success. They already have to compete with the tours, and the show judging. None of us would even have a running car, let alone a trophy winner if it weren't for the vendors.

We have been hung up as a Club on having the show field at the host hotel, but there have been some great venues, where that was not the case. The Plano meets, the Ames Iowa Meet and the Concord Meet are ones I attended where it was no problem at all to have an off site show field.

I never thought that Brian was going to be able to pull off the Concord Show, but despite weather that no one could have predicted, he did a great job.

Probably the most successful show ever, for antique automobiles is the AACA Fall Hershey Meet, and in my opinion, that show offers something for everyone and could be used as a model for future BCA National Meets.

There is more to running a National Meet than getting a low hotel rate, Given the overall cost for an average member to attend a National, the hotel rate (within reason) is one of the lesser expenses.

I believe we can offer an excellent overall product (BCA National Meet) to the membership for a very moderate cost.

Edited by Buick3746c
typos (see edit history)
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I have attended national BCA meets since 1996 and enjoyed them all. There were meets that had problems, in fact probably every meet has some less than ideal situation.

I express my concerns directly to Board members and let them take the input they get from all members and use that to improve the next meet.

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post-41092-14314248572_thumb.jpg

All Buick Show @ Pearson Air Park

Willis,

As a member of the local BCA Portland Chapter where Duke Charpentier is a member and former Director, I am happy to respond to your question "Mr. Charpentier, I was curious what sorts of car events you planned and orchestrated, where the participants felt the judging was secondary to "the experience", as mentioned?". Duke was responsible for "orchestrating" at least two All Buick Shows that I know of:

Duke made the initial arrangements for the show at Esther Short Park in downtown Vancouver WA, which whas the first ever car show on the grass under the trees in this downtown park. Special arrangements were required for the city requirements for insurance, parking plans to prevent damage to the sprinkler system, early gate access for cars to park on the grass, trash clean-up, etc. etc. These arrangements were continued for two consecutive years until the city increased use fees that our local chapter could not afford.

Duke also "orchestrated" the All Buick Show at Pearson Air Park in cooperation with an antique aircraft fly-in on the same day. He arranged several meetings with the Air Park management in conjunction with the Antique Aircraft Club & local BCA chapter members to hold our annual show on the airfield with Buicks parked next to vintage aircraft which made for some great photo opportunities. I too was involved in these meetings, and I assure you that coordinating with the other groups was challenging. Unfortunately, the Air Park and Museum was subsequently closed, so our All Buick Show had to be moved to other venues, but Duke continues to be an important part of our All Buick Show committee.

Duke has also been one of our most active members by organizing local tours and events for our club. I too agree that BCA board members should represent the various parts of North America to provide a voice for local members. Our local chapter car shows include only "Peer Judging" where participants and guests are given ballots to vote for their favorite cars. This is also true of the two BCA chapters in the Seattle area. So, I guess the best answer to your question regarding judging is that here in The Great Northwest, Peer Judging is the only way Buicks get judged at local BCA shows. We still hand out awards in the various BCA classes similar to National Meets and all cars are parked together on the show field.

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Thanks for your response to my inquiries, Mark. The types of shows you mentioned certainly lend themselves more to "the experience" than "awards", by observation. I also concur that peer judging is usually the best way to judge such meets, unless there might be a desire to elevate the status of the awards by having a group of knowledgeable/qualified judges do the judging as a group. Several ways to approach these things.

Thanks,

Willis Bell 20811

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Ted: The reason for this thread is so that the candidates for the BOD could post their opinions on issues or perceived issues facing the Club. There will always be differences of opinion and that is what makes members vote for one candidate or another. I have been inn the BCA since the seventies and I have seen the Club go through many phases. At the end of the day, being a BCA member has always been fun for me, because it gives me a venue to play with my Buick buddies. The most important thing you can do as a member to keep the BCA being the Club you want it to be is to vote for the candidates that reflect the same position on issues that you have. There has been a little complaining , but most of the candidates using this forum have discussed the issues, and no matter who wins, that is a good thing for the BCA.

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Jack, I am going to take issue with a couple of comments in your last posting here. You said a person should vote for candidates that reflect the same position as they have. We have a BOD candidate who refuses to publicly state his views on the operation of this club. How is that workin' for everybody? And then you say that no matter who wins it's a good thing for the BCA. Jack, please tell me that you don't really believe that. I'm a dues paying member. I voted. That should give me the right to complain about the way this outfit is being run.

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas America

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Jack, I am going to take issue with a couple of comments in your last posting here. You said a person should vote for candidates that reflect the same position as they have. We have a BOD candidate who refuses to publicly state his views on the operation of this club. How is that workin' for everybody?

Terry, you have made your point about this several times, you have been heard. No one has necessarily "refused" anything. For whatever reason, they have simply "chosen" not to participate. Perhaps it is because certain individuals here misconstrue whatever is written by anybody and twist it into something it is not. Any further reference to the subject and I shall consider it argumentative and contentious and will delete it.

And then you say that no matter who wins it's a good thing for the BCA. Jack, please tell me that you don't really believe that. I'm a dues paying member. I voted. That should give me the right to complain about the way this outfit is being run.

I believe you misinterpreted what Jack was saying regarding "no matter who wins it's a good thing for the BCA" . What he said is no matter who wins, the fact that most candidates have been discussing the issues here in this thread is a good thing. And to that I fully agree.

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Ted: The reason for this thread is so that the candidates for the BOD could post their opinions on issues or perceived issues facing the Club. There will always be differences of opinion and that is what makes members vote for one candidate or another. I have been inn the BCA since the seventies and I have seen the Club go through many phases. At the end of the day, being a BCA member has always been fun for me, because it gives me a venue to play with my Buick buddies. The most important thing you can do as a member to keep the BCA being the Club you want it to be is to vote for the candidates that reflect the same position on issues that you have. There has been a little complaining , but most of the candidates using this forum have discussed the issues, and no matter who wins, that is a good thing for the BCA.

Very well put, thank you Jack.

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Terry: Mr Earl is right, I meant that the discussion part of this thread is good for the BCA. I believe that this election is the first one where candidates have voiced their opinions on a forum. It is a giant step forward for the BCA and I believe it will be used more and more in elections to come. It is too bad that not all candidates have wanted to post their positions here. Maybe that alone says something. Given the differing opinions , the slate of officers for the next year(s) will affect the direction of the Club and in that regard, it does matter who you vote for.

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I to believe JACK WELCH was expressing his thoughts and his position.that is one of the reason's he recived mY VOTE.if every candidate did the same i am sure it would be better for us all.If you read his announcement that he was asking for your VOTE and why everybody would see he is not a follower but a very good leader.He will listen to the membership before he act's He is always open for ideas and suggestion and a very strong leader.But whom ever you like VOTE.LET'S have the best candidates you feel is right for the whole B C A VOTE

Have a great BUICK day

FRANK (BUKE)

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Ed, good idea, but first we gotta get this thread through the elections. :rolleyes::D I'll keep that in mind as a possible new thread. Thanks

I would love to see more participation from the general membership on here. There was a short period of time when Pete would include a paragraph or two in each issue of the Bugle about an interesting thread that was running on here. That also included the website address. I have been wanting to bring back that practice by sending him monthly items he could use. I think one problem with that is the time span between when a thread may be running on here and when the Bugle would "report" it. Another thing I would like to see happen at all the nationals banquets is when all the chapters are being recognized, that the forum be recognized and all the forum members in the audience and in particular the person who received that years Buick Man Award asked to stand and be recognized. Can I get an OORAH on that and possibly a current or running board member to support it. :D

I totally agree that chapters and regions should be recognized at the Awards Dinner. Just a word about the fourm, a lot of Buick owners do not even know about it because it is not part of the BCA. It is owned by the AACA and we are their guests. I read the posts until it gets real negative then I move on. The fourm has a lot of value as long as the hate and discontent dont surface.

Lets keep it friendly and factual. I see from time to time that board members are not available, Well my number is 316-655-1099 or booreatta@cox.net nuff said

Chuck Kerls

BCA Board Member

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I recall a time that Chapters and Div were recognized at the National awards banquet. I believe it was stopped because it could consume 45 minutes of the program. The chapters were read off and the members would stand and cheer....... then the next one.

Remember the year that the judging was done on Friday and the awards banquet started about 5 pm on Saturday. That arrangement gave judging admin more time to get the tabulation done and the awards banquet was over before 11pm.

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Barney: I seem to remember (could be wrong about the meet) the Friday judging as being at Ames Iowa. I believe the Friday judging causes more problems than it solves. First the public is working and can not attend the meet. Second many local BCAers come on Saturday only, especially "locals". National Meet agendas are already so filled that losing Friday for the judging, means rearranging the Judging School, Board meeting, etc, etc.

I believe it was done at Ames because, there was another car show coming in on Saturday.

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Maybe an alternative to recognizing the Chapters at the banquet, (anything for a shorter banquet) would be to recognize the Chapters at the General Membership meeting.

Longer happy hour...shorter banquet I say...can I get an oorah on that??!! Stand in line, buy 3 drinks, down one then one for each hand, then everybody starts heading to the banquet. Only people you get to converse with are those in line with ya and ya never remember their names.

Good idea though Jack.

Edited by MrEarl
removed text that could be construed as an endorsement of a candidate (see edit history)
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Barney: I seem to remember (could be wrong about the meet) the Friday judging as being at Ames Iowa. I believe the Friday judging causes more problems than it solves. First the public is working and can not attend the meet. Second many local BCAers come on Saturday only, especially "locals". National Meet agendas are already so filled that losing Friday for the judging, means rearranging the Judging School, Board meeting, etc, etc.

I believe it was done at Ames because, there was another car show coming in on Saturday.

Jack, apparently you were not at the Ames meet. That was the year there was not going to be a meet because no chapters stepped up. You had to be there to see how good everything worked...it rivaled the great meets you put on in Danvers. I would go back right now. It is sad to see complaining about a meet not attended and hurtful to those that worked hard to put it on.

Willie

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Jack, Willie is correct, nobody stood up to have a meet so myself and Rick Young put it on.

It was our CHOICE to have Friday Judging. We arranged schedules to fit. As it turns out it was good we did as it rained like hell Friday morning and we didn't finish judging till late afternoon.

We also had, on Friday night, a drive and eat dinner in Jewell Iowa where the town shut down and hosted us to Bar B Qued pork, Turkey, sweet corn and homemade pies.

Saturday WE put on another all makes car show and raised over $ 3,000 for "Make a Wish".

Friday judging is no harder then Saturday judging if you plan for it and in case of a morning of hard rain, it actually makes it easier.

Easier in all cases to finish the trophys and adminstration that comes along with 400 point judging.

I am just sorry nobody else has chosen to try it.

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It's too bad the formal judging could not be done all the week, at the convenience of the owners. Then do driven only on Saturday. And let folks sign up for both driven and formal judging.

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It seems to me John's idea would put a heavy burden on judges. I, for one, would not spend the entire meet making appointments for judging cars. And then, what would that do for parking by era? And recall the original purpose for the Driven Award.

John

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This post is just to get you thinking.........

The Corvair Club ( CORSA ) has the Ed Cole award (Ed is considered the father of the Corvair) Just to be eligible to compete, a Corvair owner must participate in ALL meet activities. The finish in each is totaled and the highest total determines the winner. The same vehicle must be used for all events

The activities are (1) autocross (2) concours (3) economy run (4) rally (5) banquet

Owners had a concern with the concours at the end of the meet, so at CORSA National meets, the concours is first so that your clean detailed car gets judged before entering the other activities.

The other thing that CORSA has done, the meet goes from Monday to Friday (hotel rates are cheaper) While the Corvair is not a new car, the owners probably average a younger age than Buick owners meaning many may still be working yet they get a great attendance even having the meet in the middle of the week.

One size does not fit all..... remember the old saying "think outside the box"

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OK Willie and Bill: I am thinking that what I said was taken completely out of context. Please go back and read my posting.

First, I was at the Ames Meet. I agree that in every way, It was a great meet. I certainly was not complaining about the meet in any way, I was there, I vended and I judged, I loved the both venue and the hotel. In fact in one of my earlier postings regarding National Meets, I mentioned it and Plano and Concord has having off site judging that could be a model for future meets where hotel parking is not adequate.

My posting was only responding to Barney's posting about Friday judging. I said that the only place I remember it being done was at Ames.

That said, I still disagree with Friday Judging for the reasons given and the fact that the vendors lose another day of sales. Most vendors do no sales to speak of on Saturday, now that would move to Friday. I believe that would hurt the vendors. Again, so much gets push in to the few days of a National, that Saturday would seem to me to be the optimum time to judge.

While we are on the subject of judging, one thing that could / should be done is to modify the process or do away with the operational check. It is much too labor intensive as it is done now. If the cars are driven on to the show field, we could assume that they are operational, if we want to further check some portion of their operation, have the judging team do that during judging. We base our judging system on AACA rules, now might be the time to take the next step and have "all" the judging done on the show field.

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When we started planning the first BCA National Meet we did in Plano, "the date" was discussed. It was pointed out that many people would arrive on Friday. I also got the impression that some members were on "such a tight budget" that they could not stay in the lodging for multiple days, so they loaded-up the car and headed for the meet, many times, arriving on Saturday in time to get the car cleaned and in the judged show. Position that against the later-summer closing dates for the norther-region public schools. Although I did observe some of this to happen, it was NOT an over-riding situation for the total event.

Personally, when I was attending national meets, I'd plan my vacation days well in advance, book my rooms similarly, plus the needed rent car. I made sure there was enough "room" on the credit card, and it happened. Yet, it seemed that others couldn't make it happen that way.

When the Columbus, OH national meet happened, although the stated openning of the meet was later in the week, I understand that meet registrants began to arrive on TUESDAY and "expected to be entertained by the local group". Mr. Brashares and his group did what they could to accomodate their desires, with the related additional (unplanned) financial stress.

I understand some national meets ARE judged on Fridays, even having the awards banquet as a breakfast on Sunday morning, prior to everybody's departure from the event. Each group is different in that respect . . . what might work well for one group might not work well with another group, by observation.

From the perspective of the awards banquet on Saturday and judging on Friday, that would be MUCH better in the award production activity! Some might wonder "Why?", but as the BCA 400 Point Judging System is run by "points deducted" rather than arbitrary "First, Second, and Third Place" awards, there can be a completely variable number of "Gold, Silver, Bronze" awards in EACH class. The numbers of such can't be finalized until the judging tabulations are completed. That's JUST for the 400 Point Awards, exclusive of how many other BCA-related achievement awards might be needed at that particular meet.

IF the BCA National Meets are to used as "marketing venture activities" for the betterment of the national organization, then a well-advertised Saturday show event can be good. OR . . . if the meet is judged on Friday, the formal car show would be Saturday morning (for public viewing).

As for Chapter recognition at the Awards Banquet, I remember how LONG that took as EACH group tried to out-hoop/holler the other groups that were named before them. Moving this recognition to the General Membership Meeting, considering how well-attended those meetings were (at least the ones I went to), might take away or over-shadow the concerns which members might desire to discuss or mention at that meeting.

In one respect, I feel it might be good to move MORE activities (of the meet) into the Friday or even Thursday time frame. I have no doubt this would result in many negative comments from those who feel the current Friday/Saturday schedules can't be changed or altered. Especially those who want to make a "long weekend" out of it rather than extend that long weekend into an "extended long weekend" situation. The other side of things is that some activities need to happen when most of the meet participants are at the meet, rather than "en route".

NO simple answers for this complex question!

Thanks to Bill and Rick for making the Ames meet happen!

Regards,

Willis Bell 20811

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Jack, I disagree with your orientation of the "Operational Check" activity. Here's why . . . It's my understanding that the Operational Check is done to ensure the vehicle is "end of the assembly line functional", just as the 400 Point System uses the "end of the assembly line" as its reference of how the car is judged. Over the years of being around "show cars" at auctions, formal shows, etc., it has never ceased to amaze me at the number of cars which had "operational issues" and would not pass a state safety inspection! The cosmetics might look great, the body lines/gaps could be excellent, the paint flawless, but then you see that car move in the line to the show venue and you observe a tail light that doesn't work, a turn signal that doesn't work, and other things which, to me, would DETRACT from the ownership experience. Not to forget about the driver who doesn't know how to properly modulate a manual choke! To me, if the 400 Point Judged vehicles are supposed to represent "The BEST of the BEST Buicks", then ALL safety-related (for the model year of production) items need to be fully operational and be capable of being "deployed" by the owner/owner's rep for the Operational Check lane. The Operational Check lane is also a great place to take a picture of each car (an activity which Mr. Stoneberg prototyped at our second Plano event, quite nicely, too!).

Just some thoughts . . .

Willis Bell 20811

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