My father's first car, 1957 Roadmaster Convertible, makes it to my worshop finally!

[avgwarhawk]

4 hours ago, Ben Bruce aka First Born said:

 

 

 The fan clutch was/is used to conserve power when the fan is not needed, as in hwy driving. Added feature is less noise.

 

  Ben

 

Another added feature is it provides less stress to the water pump. 

[avgwarhawk]

9 hours ago, buick man said:

This fan clutch looks like a solid one.  Is not a clutched assembly superior in over cooling functions ?

 

I appears to be a non-thermal clutch.  It is filled with silicon that will loose its 1:1 pump/fan spin as the engine increases speed.  It will free-wheel as speed is increased.  It is generally less expensive than thermal clutches. 

Edited June 19, 2020 by avgwarhawk (see edit history)

[High Desert]

**gripe mode**

 

I've called five different upholstery shops in the Albuquerque area to just get an estimate on redoing the seats. 

I know that obtaining the raw material to get the original two-tone green leather perfect will be tough, so I've given each shop the option of recreating the  ORIGINAL color and pattern in vinyl (they will need to save the leather they remove for me to store for later). 

ZERO RESPONSES! 

I even call back to check on the estimate (not quote) and get promised an answer later that day, only to roll solidly into the next day with no response. 

For an area of the country that has over 300 sunny days per year and non - rusting snow/rain conditions, you would think this would be a mecca for classic cars and the associated shops but it is like I have to fight and scrap for every single thing. On the off occasion I do find someone who can help, it is usually a person who moved here from back east two decades ago. 

Maybe it is just because this car needed so much just to get to this point, but I'm exhausted with the darn search every single time. 

It feels like the only real support here would be if I wanted to do an LS engine swap, custom tuck and roll upholstery, and make it a lowrider! Keeping it original is just beyond the comprehension of the culture here. 

 

**gripe mode off**

 

Simply put, the seat foam is hard/crunchy and the leather is disgusting. I don't want to sit on them while driving, even with seven blankets between my butt and the seat. The back seat is even worse. 

[dmfconsult]

48 minutes ago, High Desert said:

, you would think this would be a mecca for classic cars and the associated shops but it is like I have to fight and scrap for every single thing.

 

I think you hit the nail on the head here... the shops are busy and quoting on stuff takes time away from paid work... your right that it's a bit non-sensical and they should have someone available to do quotes.  I'm running into similar issues here.  I had a shop lined up to repair the A/C in my Estate Wagon once I obtained some of the parts but now that I have those parts, the shop is not returning my calls.  This was a trusted shop, but if they don't call back today, they will have lost me as a customer. Hard to believe they want to stay in business!

[38Buick 80C]

2 hours ago, High Desert said:

ZERO RESPONSES! 

I even call back to check on the estimate (not quote) and get promised an answer later that day, only to roll solidly into the next day with no response.

 

The upholstery shops I've dealt with locally ( and I way prefer local so I can keep an eye on things) generally like to SEE what they are dealing with, thus I have always visited them in person either with the car in total, pieces/parts or pictures. And then you can just plop your rear end down in their seat until they give you an estimate so they can get you out and go back to being productive. Unfortunately, though you re the customer and it shouldn't be this way, it is going to require a tad more effort on your part.

[High Desert]

7 minutes ago, 38Buick 80C said:

 

The upholstery shops I've dealt with locally ( and I way prefer local so I can keep an eye on things) generally like to SEE what they are dealing with, thus I have always visited them in person either with the car in total, pieces/parts or pictures. And then you can just plop your rear end down in their seat until they give you an estimate so they can get you out and go back to being productive. Unfortunately, though you re the customer and it shouldn't be this way, it is going to require a tad more effort on your part.

Yep. Though the upholstery is just one of many things that has limited support and knowledge base here (can't wait until I need to have the dynaflow rebuilt). I've offered to bring the seats into the shops but they don't even seem interested in that. I've said that I'm just looking for a non-binding ballpark estimate, not even a quote. 

C'est la vie

[High Desert]

The radiator and fan shroud went in today. The fan shroud was a tight fit, maneuvering it just between the radiator and the power steering pulley was tough. 

Everyone may remember that the car didn't have a shroud when I brought it home, contributing likely to the severe overhearing and deiseling problem reported by my dad when he drove it in his teens. 

Someone was working on this thing at some point in the past and decided to toss the fan shroud because of difficulty installing. After putting it in myself today, all I can say is... 

 

[old-tank]

6 hours ago, High Desert said:

I've called five different upholstery shops in the Albuquerque area

There has to be more than 5 so keep looking.  Take the rear seat lower cushion around to some with no reviews or ratings, off the beaten track...

The big name shops with a slick website never work for me. 

[buick man]

Not to bad anyone, but I have never honestly had a smooth straight experience with canvas or upholstery folks.  Be it my boat or cars over the years.  I mean there is just gonna be " something " that creeps up somewhere in the project and I do not mean unknowns creeping up.  But it is on their side .... either things or materials get lost or the project time table to completion goes from a linear concept to something logarithmic and exponential to a shift in costs due to this or that, non returned calls to the point or you have to shadow them and camp out front of the shop to get their attention.  Upholstery one would think would be pretty straight forward.  Do the take offs and get to cutting and sewing.  The opposite for example but very similar in complications setting in is the not so straight forward average plumbing project. Admittedly more complicated but regardless how many seemingly straight forward the number of turns, couplings and angles you anticipate, scale and draw out ... Something " always" results in more trips to the store, more turns, more couplings and less angles etc. That is why most plumbers drive van trucks I guess cause they need all those extra parts and fittings.

 

Don here is what I would do and have done many times to avoid the above mentioned BS.  Get yourself a good pair of hog wire pliers.  Take the seats out complete and set them on a good adequately surface working bench and surgically remove the skins from the seat cushions.   Then carefully as possible remove the cushions and put them is a container or make something that will safely contain them individually.

 

Next remove the  stitching from each of the pattern set blanks you remove that when sewn together make up your completed upholstery for that seat.  When they redo your seats these steps is exactly what they have to do in order to use your old original sectional patterns as a template to trace out onto new material before cutting out.  Different upholsters use various outside boundary hem / sew back lines. This means when they are tracing off your original individual patterns they allow an additional perimeter amount beyond the outer edge of original pattern piece and mark out these dimensions as such to allow for shrinkage, hem lines,  seat cushion material, contouring etc.  Either way, if you bring in your individual patterns as a number set over half the battle has been waged at this point.  They can take from there and do their professional magic.  In the meantime you can media blast your seat frames, springs etc and catalyze epoxy primer the whole works or get everything powder coated and make ready for the upholsterer.  Or you can ... Do the frames/springs first  and then bring the whole works over at the same time as your original patterns that way they have everything they need to start laying out, cutting and sewing.  Since you have a Buick Roadmaster convertible go over to youtube and look at Jay Leno's R.M. convertible.  He has a complete video show casing it.  Take note of the factory original puffy contouring of the complete original leather seat,  Notice the seat is not " Pan Cake Flat " but rather quite stuffed and where the piping meets the skins there is a definite raised radius contouring to allow for factory correct stuffing of foam and cotton.  This is the correct look not flat lifeless " Slam it Out " upholstery work.  It takes much more craftsmanship and time to do it correctly and that is why when you go and take a good look on many so called premiere restoration including frame off projects now days, the seats are pancake flat with little to no contouring.  Tell tale evidence of a slam dunk out the door job ....... 

 

Oh .... Make sure to insist they use a special very strong non rotatable sewing hem threading called Gortex.  It is made of a polypropylene material and boat upholstery and canvas folks use it.  This polypropylene thread needs special sized needles for the particular and various Industrial Sewing Machines your upholsterer uses in their shop and Singer makes the various needles for their particular machine setup.  Use this type of thread and you will never have a split seat due to thread rot failure again.       

Edited June 20, 2020 by buick man (see edit history)

[High Desert]

1 hour ago, buick man said:

**Big list of upholstery things to do **

Holy crap, thanks! I'll keep all of this in mind. Good info, 

[High Desert]

Good news! It made it to the new photo spot under its own power today. Got the engine initial break-in done but it still needs some tuning. 

 

I just drove it from the shop to the patio, maybe 150 feet. 

Edited June 21, 2020 by High Desert (see edit history)

[Roadmaster75]

Great progress!

Quite a milestone for it to travel under its own power......!

 

 

[Angelfish]

7 hours ago, High Desert said:

Good news! It made it to the new photo spot under its own power today. Got the engine initial break-in done but it still needs some tuning. 

 

Would you mind describing your break in procedure?  I realize that’s as bad as showing up in a firearms forum and asking AR or AK, but with any luck I’m a month away from breaking in a 57 364 and I’ll take all the experienced advice I can get. 
 

[High Desert]

9 hours ago, Angelfish said:

 

Would you mind describing your break in procedure?  I realize that’s as bad as showing up in a firearms forum and asking AR or AK, but with any luck I’m a month away from breaking in a 57 364 and I’ll take all the experienced advice I can get. 
 

Sure! I've rebuilt six or seven engines in my life with varying levels of focus on initial break-in and they have all performed well. Sometimes I feel like this is the mechanic's version of an old wives' tale or throwing salt over your shoulder. "I know a guy whose sister's cousin didn't do a good initial break in and two weeks later, Bam! He threw a rod." 

I generally believe that the initial start focuses on helping the new cam and lifters make friends with each-other by keeping the oil pressure high. Subsequent drives, putting the engine under varying load conditions help set the piston rings. 

 

Regardless of old-wives-tale status, properly rebuilding a nailhead is an expensive task and we need all the "luck" we can get. Most of what I did for initial break-in was before the engine started. 

 

1. Remove the distributor and use a drill and chucked old distributor shaft (without the drive gear) or cutoff large blade screwdriver shaft to prime the oil system by driving the oil pump for about five minutes. Since I did this with the engine in the engine stand, I installed an oil pressure gauge in the oil pressure fitting hole on the right side of the engine. If no gauge is available, that hole will need to be plugged or hooked up properly if the engine is in the car. 

2. Set the static timing. The manual has good instructions for this. 

3. Prime the fuel line and carburetor. I did this by using an old 90w gear oil bottle half-filled with gasoline. The spout can be inserted into the carb fuel line to feed fuel until it hits resistance, meaning the carb is full. 

4. Fill the radiator with water. If there is a problem that means the cooling system has to be drained, it is better to just work with water than coolant. I normally drain and fill with coolant after several heat cycles. 

5. Double/triple check all fittings and connections. 

 

Most of the things listed above focus on on being able to start the engine quickly and bring it up to operating temperature without having to shut it down. 

After that, it is pretty simple. 

 

6. Start the engine and run it at 2,500-3,500 rpm for 15-20 minutes. Fluctuate the rpms within that range every few minutes. I like the Buick carb-actuated solenoid for this. I could just lean over the left fender and start the car while keeping an eye on ensuring things are working correctly.

 

Good luck with yours! It makes me feel good to hear another Buick is getting a refreshed engine. 

 

 

Edited June 21, 2020 by High Desert (see edit history)

[Smartin]

Pre-priming the oil pump is only needed to be done until you build oil pressure.  Any longer than that, and you are just washing off assembly lube from all the journals and surfaces.

[High Desert]

On 6/18/2020 at 8:42 AM, Caballero2 said:

Just a suggestion, in light of your area, I bought this at Napa, bolts right up, works very well.  It is thermally activated.

I noticed the fan was essentially free-wheeling yesterday after I shut the engine off, so I took your good advice and upgraded the clutch from a 1963 Lesabre. The new clutch moves a lot more air at idle. One small difference is that the old clutch has four fine thread studs to mount the fan. The new clutch takes four coarse thread bolts with lock washers. 

[Caballero2]

I became aware of the temperature sensing capability of this design while towing a trailer with a car enclosed through Idaho on a day of 100 plus degrees.  With the A/C going full blast in my '82 Chevrolet Silverado, one could hear and feel the fan clutch engage then drop out when the temp gauge dropped into the save zone. I believe that the design allows the clutch to actually lock up when the high temp is reached. Others may chime in if that is not correct.

Edited June 21, 2020 by Caballero2 (see edit history)

[High Desert]

Took it for a voyage around the neighborhood the evening with my son. I enjoyed the wide eyed stares as we passed people. 

Need to finish cleaning all the dirt and sand from inside the car to be able to hit higher speeds though. My eyes can't take the chaos! 

 

[FireballV8]

Hi Don

Great story and great progress. The car is coming along very nicely. 

Thanks for sharing your progress. 

Steve

[High Desert]

13 hours ago, FireballV8 said:

Hi Don

Great story and great progress. The car is coming along very nicely. 

Thanks for sharing your progress. 

Steve

Thanks Steve!

 

Part of this is just documenting for myself the car's progress. I've always been drawn to a story though. I don't attend many car shows but when I do, I'll spend 90% of my time at the places where someone has set up an album of his/her car, showing it in stages from start to current state, with a story. 

 

I've noticed that the type of car or truck doesn't really factor into my infatuation with the history. Without the background and history, it is just a car. When the history is there, it is more of a time machine.

 

As I continue to refine the driving ability of the Buick (the carb still needs work as does the steering gear), I'm keeping Dad updated so he can plan to come the 600 miles to my place for one goal, to ease this silent monster from the driveway and down the road like he did when he last drove it in his teens. Though not a smoker, he plans to bring a cigar, so he can pull up to a park and smoke it while gazing through the windshield as if he had conquered the world the same way he remembers his father doing in the Roadmaster. I never met my granddaddy but he had good taste to pull over and purchase this car back in 1963 when it was out of style and broken.

 

I'm compiling a list of questions for my Dad to answer on camera about his memories of both driving the car and of the connection he had assigned between a decrepit Buick and his own father who died when Dad was only in his early 20s from a heart attack. I have some other interviews to capture also from other family members and friends. I'm contacting the small town newspaper and school newspaper to see if I can find a copy of the photo that shows him driving the Buick around the school football field while his cousin, just elected homecoming queen, sits high on the folding top in the back, waving at the crowd. 

 

He attended her funeral a few years ago.

 

I'm not a sentimental person and have told my kids to define only four things at any given time to keep purely for sentimental value. My feeling is that keeping too many items for sentiment only clogs the arteries of your life. This car has been one of my four things. Now that it is almost roadworthy, the sentimental portion can take a back seat to us having fun with it.

 

For the love of a good story.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[dei]

1 hour ago, High Desert said:

I'm compiling a list of questions for my Dad to answer on camera about his memories of both driving the car and of the connection he had assigned between a decrepit Buick and his own father who died when Dad was only in his early 20s from a heart attack. I have some other interviews to capture also from other family members and friends. I'm contacting the small town newspaper and school newspaper to see if I can find a copy of the photo that shows him driving the Buick around the school football field while his cousin, just elected homecoming queen, sits high on the folding top in the back, waving at the crowd. 

 

Agree with you 100% regarding this!

 

I have a few video tapes with Dad and his cars plus a lot of photos let alone three of his antiques so believe me when I say "they are special".

 

Dad saved this article from his local paper.

The T was his daily driver (sitting behind the wheel) in 1941.

 

So I support your idea, hearing your Dad's stories in his own words will be a great treasure for all.

Edited June 23, 2020 by dei (see edit history)

[High Desert]

The carburetor came off today. I noticed that the car started and idled well but had no accelerating power. My neighbor said it was the timing, but it felt more like a clogged main jet to me based on my experience with riding and repairing old Honda motorcycles. Hondas were more prone to having clogged idle jets but the inverse symptoms did seem familiar. 

Sure enough, the driver side main jet was clogged. The past version of me didn't do a very good job on this carb. Granted, that guy was tired from just getting it unfrozen so I'm not too upset. 

Everything is getting re-cleaned I'll try to assemble and check performance tomorrow. 

Edited June 24, 2020 by High Desert (see edit history)

[High Desert]

The carb is fixed! I took it apart as far as I could. Soaked the cast iron base in vinegar overnight to combat the lingering rust. Soaked the other bits in acetone. Blew out all possible ports. Polished the crud and rust off the butterflies. 

I then sat down at the kitchen table and spent several hours ensuring it was reassembled correctly. 

 

[High Desert]

From tonight's drive, I was laughing when I stood behind the car for this photo. I've been fighting with the lights and blinkers. Bulbs have been replaced, fuses pulled and checked. Hours dedicated to getting everything working properly. 

I never thought to check the license plate lights but there they both are, working perfectly even though they have been completely ignored by me. 

 

I thought I had a leaking rear main seal on the engine despite being slow and deliberate during assembly. Turns out the compression fitting for the oil pressure was leaking instead. 

 

Whew! 

[High Desert]

I was cleaning and organizing the workshop today when I found the leftover paint I used on the passenger side fender. 

Well, that got me distracted because I spent the next two hours sanding down rust on some exposed areas and spreading paint. I only had about an eighth of a quart of the mint green left, so the finish is not as smooth and shiny as I would normally lay down. The end result still shows that the car has age-related scars but no longer any open wounds.

I don't believe the green paint on the car matches the factory color. Dad said that Grandaddy mixed multiple colors of laquer he had laying around in an attempt to match the color before painting it himself. That accouts for some of the reason the old color looks more blue than what I applied today. 

You can see the passenger door dents from the deer's rear hooves remain, well, dented. I did no dent repair today, only rust. 

 

Edited July 10, 2020 by High Desert (see edit history)

[Caballero2]

Battle scars cannot blemish its beauty.

DAN

[lancemb]

Looks awesome!!  Another one on the road!  I know of 2 more that should be on the road soon too (before mine).  The army is growing!

[High Desert]

I've disconnected the speedometer and temporarily capped that area on the transmission because the speedometer is noisy and not accurate. The car has gone on numerous test drives totaling over 100 miles, coming home after each run for small checks and adjustments.

The engine is smooth, full of torque, and sounds so cool through the exhaust system. 

I have been fighting with the power steering, which isn't working. The pump has come out about five times for checking, cleaning, and reassembly. It does have a little scarring inside. I had put the relief valve together incorrectly initially but doing it right has provided no better results. 

Following the manual, I removed the steering gear to clean and check the valve assembly. It went back together with the right parts moving freely. 

Still no power steering. 

The manual says to check the pump pressure with a gauge that should show ~850 lbs of output pressure. Yeah, I don't have one but increasingly believe that the pump is not performing. 

Luckily, lack of power essentially turns the system into a slightly stiff manual steering but it is still annoying. 

I'm smiling between those low speed turns though! 

Edited June 29, 2020 by High Desert (see edit history)

[JohnD1956]

The 56 manual says the power steering is a power assist system. Essentially that is described as providing more assistance when required ( sharp low speed turns) and less as need is reduced ( straight highway driving).  To apply this to your car, from my observation it is very difficult to turn the steering wheel when the car has no power steering and is fully stopped.  It is a two handed job. It is harder still to turn that non power steering car when stopped and there are radial tires.  If you can turn your steering wheel when stopped with one hand then your power assist is working. 

 

By contrast the 72 Electra has full power steering all the time. Sometime it seems like a strong wind appropriately placed can turn that steering wheel all the time.  Between the two cars I prefer the 56's system.

 

[High Desert]

10 hours ago, JohnD1956 said:

The 56 manual says the power steering is a power assist system. Essentially that is described as providing more assistance when required ( sharp low speed turns) and less as need is reduced ( straight highway driving).  To apply this to your car, from my observation it is very difficult to turn the steering wheel when the car has no power steering and is fully stopped.  It is a two handed job. It is harder still to turn that non power steering car when stopped and there are radial tires.  If you can turn your steering wheel when stopped with one hand then your power assist is working. 

 

By contrast the 72 Electra has full power steering all the time. Sometime it seems like a strong wind appropriately placed can turn that steering wheel all the time.  Between the two cars I prefer the 56's system.

 

It is absolutely not a one-hand steering system right now. You are correct in that the power assist only works when needed. The service manual describes it that way too. 

I just don't understand what would degrade the pump performance so much. It is a pretty simple pump.

[JohnD1956]

I don't know either. Did you replace the high pressure line to the steering gear?

[High Desert]

35 minutes ago, JohnD1956 said:

I don't know either. Did you replace the high pressure line to the steering gear?

Yep, replaced both actually just in case they had crud in them. Brand new! 

[KongaMan]

Maybe it's not the pump.

[JohnD1956]

7 hours ago, High Desert said:

Yep, replaced both actually just in case they had crud in them. Brand new! 

It may not be the problem but in the picture it looks like the high pressure line is distorted where it runs over the top of another line (perhaps the vacuum line to the master cylinder?).  As I understand the pumps operation on my 56, when the system is not needed the bypass valve diverts the pressure back to the reservoir instead of to the steering gear box.  Perhaps that distortion is causing an erroneous symptom in the system or restricting fluid to the steering gear box?

[High Desert]

I was able to buy a decent power steering pump. Should be here early next week. If nothing else, it should have a good reservoir manifold. We will see. 

 

In the mean time the car is being driven. The brakes are bedding in well, it starts like a dream every time,  the transmission leaks a little from the kickdown shaft area (but not bad at all), and I finally have clean coolant after five extremely extensive flushes. The rust and grime inside the engine block was bad beyond description. My trees are enjoying the iron-enriched water though. 

It has been warm here. Some days have hit 100 degrees. The engine runs well within the cool range on the left side of the gauge. At ~6,000 ft of elevation here, the fuel in the fuel line gets very vapor-locky if I have to idle at a stop light for more than 20 seconds. I'll start with some heat protection on the fuel line and fuel filter and go from there. 

I bought a top for the car in the late 90's off ebay for next to nothing. It has no back window or back curtain and isn't perfect but it is a perfect opportunity for me to do a trial-run top install. 

Think the cops would mind if I just leave it clamped in place while driving around until I install it next week?

[High Desert]

The power steering pump solved the problem. It steers so dreamy now. 

 

This pump doesn't let me take the lid off while running like the old one did. It really pumps some oil. 

[John_Mereness]

Sidenote:  I like your approach to getting this car on the road.  I am seeing a ton of "I am going to do ..." coming on the market and it is obvious the people tried to do too many things and gt in over their head quick. 

[John_Mereness]

Try this company for your leather:  www.keleenleathers.com - they are well use to matching/custom dyed and custom finished leather (not going to be cheap, but any color not commonly used in a car today will also not be cheap and then no leather is cheap to begin with).  Get at least an extra hide.  And then give the local trimmer the front seat and when done do the back (ie some project get overwhelming quickly for people no matter what their skill level).

Edited July 16, 2020 by John_Mereness (see edit history)

[High Desert]

5 minutes ago, John_Mereness said:

Try this company for your leather:  www.keleenleathers.com - they are well use to matching/custom dyed and custom finished leather (not going to be cheap, but any color not commonly used in a car today will also not be cheap and then no leather is cheap to begin with).  Get at least an extra hide.  And then give the local trimmer the front seat and when done do the back (ie some project get overwhelming quickly for people no matter what their skill level).

Thanks! I also got a quote and samples from SMS. They provided pricing for the correct color of leather, vinyl, and carpet. They also provided pricing for complete seat cover replacements as well as door panels, using the correct vinyl and leather. 

[High Desert]

I'm working with my parents to get them to come out so I can finally get photos and video of him driving his first car again. Admittedly, I want the car as nice as possible for that moment. 

New carpet arrived today and I couldn't help but lay it in place. I've never seen the car with carpet before. I still have to complete some floor pan rust repair, so the carpet will get taken out and rolled up to wait. 

Boy, that is some green carpet....