How could you sell a museum quality antique car collection?

[Guest clearStatic]

I work with a collector who has a museum quality collection of antique vehicles, most of which are in running condition. They range from 1960's mustangs to a Ford Model T. The collection mostly contains Classic Fords, Chevys, europeans from the 1920's-1940's. He's interested in selling a portion of this collection, around 80-100 cars roughly $3-5 million as a set.

What would be the optimal route in finding a buyer for this collection? Would museums be interested in purchasing for their collection, or would it more likely be another private collector?

Different ideas appreciated!

[Dave@Moon]

This is definitely a situation where an auction is called for, with the cars selling individually to get the most money for the collection. A single sale of a large lot of cars would only reduce the return on the sale, and the buyer would almost certainly bust the collection up for a profit anyway. With that many cars an auction on site might be a possibility, or the collection could be transported to one of the major national auctions.

I'm sure others sill chime in with recommendations for which auction house or auction would work best for you.

[Guest my3buicks]

Or someone could do a great presentation of each car on ebay and reach more buyers than any other avenue

[Guest Foggy norm]

I agree, Ebay would be the best option. That estate sale with all the Stutz's in new england?...never even heard about it. Guess auction houses figure us "common" collector's aren't worth notifying.

[Guest clearStatic]

Considered an auction, but we would probably require the services of something like Barrett Jackson which after commissions, auction costs, reserves or non reserves could affect the overall price received for the cars. Ease and speed contribute significant value and he does not expect top market value for each vehicle. Any personal experiences with auctions? Seems like it presents a greater logistical nuisance.

[alsancle]

Just as an aside, "museum quality" means different things to different people. To me it means a bunch of cars that have not been maintained. Most museums are not the Nethercutt collection.

The trade off is simple, if you don't want to pay a professional auction house to do the work then you need to do it yourself via ebay. This will take longer and require much more effort on the seller's part. There is no guarantee that you make more money doing it yourself. Barret Jackson does not do on site estate auctions. Depending on the cars RM, Bonhams, Christies, and perhaps Gooding would be appropriate for higher end cars. There are many regional outfits that would be appropriate for liquidating lesser cars.

As for the Miller Stutz auction, if it was held today they would do it the same way. The prices realized were crazy and everyone who was into Stutz participated.

Edited April 30, 2011 by alsancle (see edit history)

[franklinman]

All of the replies offered make sound cases for their proposals. The bottom line is this. If you are looking for a quick, and clean, sale of everything then the best way to go is with the auction route. All cars will sell on one day, but you may or may not receive the price you're hoping for. Having worked with them in numerous cases, I would heartily reccommed RM as one auction company. Yes, you will give up some return in some cases, but a good auction company does earn their pay. It does all of the pre-sale marketing, absorbs the expense(s) involved in photographing, representing, mailing, site set-up, etc. etc., and in many cases brings in buyers that you may not otherwise reach. On the other hand, if you've got the time and expertise to deal with a large group of vehicles you can choose to go it by yourself. Don't underestimate the amount of time and expense you will need to devote to this if you expect to receive the maximum return from each sale(s). Having personally dealt with buying and selling large collections I can tell you it isn't the "cakewalk" many would have you believe. Even if you choose to go with listing the cars on Ebay, there's still much work to do, and there will be many headaches to deal with. It's not just snapping a few pictures of each car and sitting back and waiting for the "bids" to come rolling in! If you've never dealt with something on this scale before, you might want to consider consulting with someone that has past experience and possibly even a consignment scenario. It gives you a greater involvment in the decision process than an auction, a higher level of privacy regarding each sale, and in many cases at less expense than an auction. If you would like to learn more, feel free to PM me and I'll be glad to walk you through some scenarios you might learn from.

[Steve Moskowitz]

I agree with Franklinman. Go with a "boutique" auction firm like RM. They will spend the time to do a quality job and they have the buyers. There have been dozens and dozens of major collections sold by reputable auction firms over the last decade. Most of the collections were far more valuable than your stated figure. RM also has the Auction America outlet as well. Ask the people who have gone this route and for the most part you will find very satisfied sellers.

If you are looking at "ease and speed" then using a quality auction house seems a no brainer. They will do the work. Check out the websites of these auctions houses, you will see they specialize in collections. It is a least worth talking with them. It is possible that they would not be interested in the collection but might offer you some professional advice. Best of luck.

Edited April 30, 2011 by Steve Moskowitz (see edit history)

[A. Ballard 35R]

The question of "Museum Quality" still remains. Boutique auction houses can do a great job but only for quality cars. Steve makes sense when he suggests that you talk to the major auction houses making sure thar you give them a complete list of the cars and their condition. As previously mentioned, museum quality means different things to different people. The Sandwich Museum on Cape Cod for example takes pride in having as many cars in top running condition as possible. Other museums are nothing more than a collection of cars that don't run and were put in the museum for that very reason.

The idea of managing the sale of 100 plus cars on Ebay is mind boggling and could take a period of time with no guaranee that everything would be sold. The Miller Stutz collection as already stated, was well advertised, well attended, and brought unusually high prices. Best of luck.

[MarkV]

museum= disaster= have not been driven in 40 years= paperweight

They may look great but, they are a mess mechanically!

[alsancle]

Depending on what the cars are the higher end houses may pass. The smallest take I've ever seen RM get involved with was the Steven's sale in NY state. I want to say the whole load ended up being 3.5 million. Depending on the exact deal RM should have grossed around 400-500k minus some significant expenses.

"Museum Quality" is one of those phrases that is used by people outside the hobby to describe what they (usually incorrectly) deem as superior condition cars. I put it in the same category as using "Classic" to describe a 65 Mustang :-).

As posted before, selling 100 cars is a pile of work. You can either pay someone to do the work or do the work yourself but the work remains.

[Guest clearStatic]

Thanks for your responses. I'm definitely outside the hobby so I'm unclear of the terminology. I only used "museum quality" as a descriptive term because the collection was originally purchased from a classic car museum. Most of the vehicles are in running condition still. I appreciate the feedback regarding the auction houses and will definitely be inquiring with a few to see if they can evaluate the collection and whether they can provide an estimate. I also wanted to get other possible methods to liquidate that I may not be aware of, like if someone knew the Sultan of Brunei was looking to purchase a classic car collection lol.

[keiser31]

My suggestion is to find a good "overall auto" appraiser (one who really knows the cars being assessed) and have them do the TOTAL description for an auction on ebay. I would not post the cars as a group. I would post each car separately and describe them to a tee. Ebay gets the most lookers and overseas folks who may want an American antique car that has been put away for a while will get a chance to see and bid on them. If money is a concern, chances are, you will not get as much for the "collection" as you would for the total for each car sold separately. Chances are also that a museum would not have the funds to do the sale justice. With the amount of times that I have seen auctioneers mis-describe the cars they sell, I would hesitate to use them. Let me just add that I have sold many antique autos for folks on ebay and have never had a problem. As long as the description of the vehicle and the terms of purchase are clear, it's clear sailing. I guess it's a matter if you want a few hundred people to see them and bid or a few million people to see them and bid.

Edited April 30, 2011 by keiser31 (see edit history)

[Ovalrace25]

I agree that this needs to just be handed to RM. I have dome some small estates with 6-7 cars and parts. It took many months to finish it all up. There are just not many buyers that will make a 100 cars deal unless it is really a no-brainer lo-buck deal....

The only option is the eBay route IF you use someone that KNOWS the cars, knows the ins and outs of the eBay process and can be available to eBay bidders you can also expect pre-purchase inspections will be part of the process.. 100 cars later... Seems like a full time job for several months.

I just looked at a collection of 10 cars that I was asked to make an offer.. Was told they all ran fine and looked great. First look, I asked just WHEN was it that any of them last saw daylight, the reply was, it was 8 to 12 years ago... So that means, brakes, fuel systems, tires, elecrical, hoses, belts, substantial inspections, time and money to see what is really there.... Sure they have value, but not as operable cars ready for the market... Not a chance...

[60FlatTop]

The math doesn't work well for this deal. For 80-100 cars, let's say 90 to net $3,000,000 - $5,000,000 ummmm, let's say $4,000,000, means the cars will have to average about $45,000 each.

There must be some pretty good stuff to make up for the Model T and the Mustangs.

[Guest Dave Boyer]

I have been to many RM auctions, and have had dealings with them, always first rate.

A few years ago, they handled something like this locally, it was a movie car auction, for a company that supplied cars to the movie industry. Very well attended, and promoted, this is what they do.

[trimacar]

60FlatTop has it right, to average what is stated as the spread (and let's be realistic, if an owner says he wants 3 to 5 million, he's really thinking the 5) there'd better be a pile of 1932 duece roadsters and coupes.

The comment on European cars is interesting, but again, there are European cars that don't bring much money either. A couple of Alfas or Hispanos woulld surely spice up the auction total.

Was touring a well known collection last week, and a docent told me that the statement he'd heard , for the well to do European, was "you drive an Alfa, you're driven in a Rolls, and you buy your mistress a Delage...."

Don't think my chances of any of that are very good................

[auburnseeker]

What part of the country are the cars located in? Assuming they are in the USA?

[Trulyvintage]

Somehow you managed to navigate your way to this Public Forum

There are thousands of other car forums with worldwide subscription

and participation

Build a website

Accurately describe the condition of & photograph/video each vehicle

Join respective car forums and try to connect with a buyer

Things have changed - ebay is not the market force it once was

and auctions do not bring the prices they once commanded

Jim

[Guest clearStatic]

Sorry, I guess my range of Model T to Mustangs is inaccurate in terms of caliber of vehicles. While there is a large amount of classic Fords and Chevys, there are also quite a few gems like 36 Auburn Supercharged, several 1925-1940 Rolls Royce...

In any case, I'm definitely not well versed when it comes to the classic cars, so I very much appreciated all your input!

[jscheib]

If you have several pre-war RR, I suggest you contact the RR club as someone there should be glad to help you find new owners or suggest a venue for sale. Are those RR registered with the RR club?They track every chassis built, I believe. Same for any Auburn. But if you split out the really good ones, the auction firms may not want to handle the rest.

John

[old car fan]

Selling any car ,right now is a gamble,should not be.If i had the cash and storage,not many would get past me.Buy now.

Edited May 5, 2011 by Peter J.Heizmann (see edit history)

[Restorer32]

Biggest market now for cars is overseas.

[60FlatTop]

"But if you split out the really good ones, the auction firms may not want to handle the rest." There's a quote to remember. I think you can replace auction firm with lots of potential buyers.

I can remember times when I wanted to thin the herd and people only wanted to cars I wanted to keep. It seems there just never wanted the cars that weren't quite good enough for me or my projects.

Actually, this string is getting pretty boring.

[auburnseeker]

I think prices on cars right now are high. I think it's almost getting crazy. I'm seeing 4 door models in the Convertible territory. Wether they are selling or not, I'm not sure. I figured the last 3-4 months were a good time to go hunting for a new old car. With every Hemmings that rolls in I think prices have been going up 10 percent on about everything per issue. Last years Old Cars price Guide is Starting to look like it was printed 5 years ago.

[RU22]

It is all too easy to get caught up in drinking ones bath water.... Things are just not moving as much as you think. I, like many here, do keep an eye on things. I am also sure that you have all seen items sit unsold

Post a list.... I am sure there are folks here that will give you a good idea what your cars are honestly worth.

[Dave Mitchell]

I sold a car with Gooding and Co last year and they did a great job and were very professional and polished to deal with. I highly recommend them and they have done very well selling small and medium size collections as well as large ones and getting great prices. They are excellent at evaluating the cars and what it will take to sell them and where to target the advertizing and one on one marketing. Their charges are reasonable and the premium price they get makes it up for their commission. David Gooding has worked with the several auction houses and now, in my opinion owns and operates the best one. They really work to sell the cars and at the same time run a class operation, without all of the the odd things you see at other auctions, and I felt no pressure as a seller to do anything other than what I wanted to do and what we had agreed to before the auction. I can't say that for other companies. I can tell you directly of my experience with them. Dave Mitchell packard12s@hotmail.com

[RU22]

I agree David Gooding is an honest person and his company is just head and shoulders above the others. All my dealings have been flawless and straight forward.

[Guest Chubb Car Guy Jim]

In addition to RM, go to Gooding & Co and Bohnams. All three auction houses sell significant numbers of pre-war cars (as opposed to Barrett Jackson & Mecum). You'll pay the commissions, but their events draw serious top-shelf buyers.

I know folks at all three companies and can make introductions if you're interested - send me a note if you'd like.