Time to say I told you so

[Guest Dans 77 Limited]

Im not gloating , Im not even happy that Im right . Im very concerned. Did anybody notice the new members list in the latest Bugle ? 22. The premminent Buick club in the world and last month we got 22 new memberships. Three of which were from places outside the U.S. That means we got 19 new memberships in the U.S. One half of a page double spaced at that covered our entire list of new members. When I joined 9-1/2 yers ago (yes I still hve the bugle that listed me as a new member) it was a full 2 pages long single spaced and in much smaller print than it is now.

I recruit every chance I get, so do most of our chapter members. We have always been a small chapter and at one point recieved an almost fatal blow to our recruiting from a past BOD so we are constantly on the lookout for new members. You have a Buick anywhere near a member of my chapter you are going to be solicited about joining the BCA. So far we havent had what you would call a stellar year for recruitment .

Why ? Because we are getting told and I quote one failed potential member "It sounds nice but its just too damn much money to spend on a car club." The membership dues for my chapter are 10 a year so where do you believe the problem lies with making it too expensive ? In the chapter dues or the national dues? I think we all know the answer to that.

And nows the time for the I told you so.

I told you so. Repeatedly.

Its too hard to get people to shell out money for something they think they might like in this economy.

I would like to see a new feature in the Bugle that may help give an idea as to the problem we are facing. Lets take the other half of what used to be the new members page and keep a running month by month tally of the member ship. List the current membership number add in the new membership number and then subtract the amount of members tha didnt renew that month. Im sure the main office could supply that info to Pete Phillips on a monthly basis ( even if its a month behind) so that the membership and the BOD can get a feel for the pulse of this club. It would give us all a direct tangible result of things like dues increases to let us know whether we are taxing ourselves into prosperity or rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic. Im pretty sure I already know what were doing (and I would really like my chair over there by the lifeboat station please) but maybe if we all saw it every month in black and white it would cause us to come up with better ideas or maybe get some BCA members who think its the other guys job to recruit to get to work themselves.

I know Im probably wasting my time but I at least have to try.

Pleas take following posts to tell me what a bad idea this is and why the hell would I suggest it or even tell me that maybe Im in the wrong club. Then when the dues go up again to punish the members who decided to stay for the others that just didnt think it was worth it anymore........ think about this post

Dan

[BUICK RACER]

Yep, I noticed that too!!

It's going to get harder and harder to recruit, let alone keep members. This is very stressful to the chapter directors especially. Pinochle and Liar's clubs will abound, I'm afraid!:eek:

[old-tank]

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I would rather the club have 5,000 happy friends than 10,000 with half of them whiners.

Willie

[Guest dcdpgh]

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I would rather the club have 5,000 happy friends than 10,000 with half of them whiners.

Willie

I don't normally post responses in threads like this, but all I can say after seeing that reply is you may get your wish.

[38Buick 80C]

The BCA BOD tracks membership every month especially related to the dues increase. Despite membership being down the Club is in the black financially which it was not before the dues increase. Now that the club is financially secure we can focus on ways to increase membership and the value one receives as being a member. This will be a topic in the BOD Meeting and General Membership Meeting in Ames which ALL are welcome to attend and have their opinions heard. If you can 't make it to Ames call, email, PM the BOD member of your choosing with your ideas to increase membership. This has the potential to be a very productive set of meetings. The BOD listened to member input last year in CO Springs and several decisions were made as a direct result of membership suggestions and feedback which have resulted in successes for the BCA.

We would all love for the dues to be less, heck zero, but the BOD has a fiduciary responsibility to keep the club solvent. What no one wants are the dues to being so low that the club runs itself in to bankruptcy and out of business, there is no bail out available for us. Many items were cut from the budget, but there is only so much you can cut and provided the level of value the majority of the membership demands in return for their dues. Now that the dues have been increased we have to increase the value to the existing as well as potential members.

So what PRODUCTIVE ideas do the members have to add value to the club?

Saying dues should be less is not productive as it will cause the club to cease to exist. It is time to move beyond that.

For instance I believe the BDE gives you a merchandise credit or something like that when you renew. I think if we add value selling a potential member and keeping existing members will be much easier even at the higher dues amount.

So what are your thoughts?

[Guest moto826]

im new here and whats the costs to join as i jest got a 1931 buick thanks for all the info and perks if any thanks again

[jscheib]

Moto826,

Check on the initial home page (or whatever it is called) and you will see membership info.

John

[38Buick 80C]

Cost to join is $50 for one year with discounts for joining multiple years.

Benefits to membership are

1. 12 monthly issues of the Buick Bugle, our award winning club magazine, filled with interesting articles technical information, classified ads, technical advisers and schedule of BCA national, regional and local events.

2. As a member you are eligible to join the local chapter in your area as well as the BCA divisions (Reatta, pre-war, 53-54 Skylark, etc) which offer their own benefits

3. As a member you are eligible to register and participate in the BCA National (only one National meet per year) and other regional and local events that are member only events.

4. Receive one BCA static cling decal for your vehicle

5. Receive a roster of members in the year that it is published (published about once every 2-3 years) which has production information about All Buick models from 1903 to as current as we can get. As well as names of members by State, also grouped by car so that you can contact other members with the same vehicle as yours for tech info, or parts, or other information.

6. BCA Technical advisers - we have many advisers sorted by years and vehicle who can help with questions ranging from getting cars running to authenticity question to suggestions on where to find parts.

7. One free classified ad per month up to 30 words not including name and contact info in the Buick Bugle.

8. As with any social organization there is the fellowship and camaraderie that comes with joining a group of individuals with a similar interest to you, Buicks

I have a 1930 myself, though the drivetrains are different the 31 and 30 do share many body related items. Glad you stopped by, please feel free to email me at Brian.depouli@att.net if you have any specific questions. I am glad to assist. Also I can send you or any other interested potential member a free old copy of a Bugle to introduce you to club and entice you to join.

Edited July 14, 2010 by 38Buick 80C (see edit history)

[Guest my3buicks]

The Bugle alone is worth the price of admission.

[Guest BJM]

im new here and whats the costs to join as i jest got a 1931 buick thanks for all the info and perks if any thanks again

Annual dues are $50 and there is some savings by signing up for 2 + years. You get membership in the club, which gets you a monthly (nice) magazine discussing all things Buick with Buick specific advertising.

You get the list of the local chapters which you can then join, Buick advisors if you need them.

[Centurion]

The Bugle alone is worth the price of admission.

I agree!

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

$50.00 per year. $4.16 per month. Heck , any car mag from the news stand is more than that!! I really do not under stand the problem. Cut back one pack of smokes per month. Cut back on the sodas or the beer. This is not a lot of money!! One could probably save enough for the dues simply by easing into the throttle at stop signs instead of trying to beat the next guy to the next stop!

The fees being "too much" is just an excuse. There must be other reasons. I don't have any idea what, or how to fix.

Any way, I am content.

My thoughts

Ben

[Guest BJM]

The Bugle alone is worth the price of admission.

Disagree. It's nice but not worth $50. I can get 3 Hemmings magazines for $50 (Hemmings Classic Cars / Hemmings Motor News and Hemminsg Muscle)

Next year I am just sending my donation to the BCA, no membership. I read the Bugle in about 2 hours, the same time that Rick Young stated it took him to read it. Then it goes in the garbage.

I thought about this so as not be totally negative. This is in my opinion, an entirely personal bent, as I have been reading about old cars and the old car hobby since I was 14 years old. That's 33 years. I am just burned out on old car reading, but respect that this is unique to me.

The worst part of the Bugle - again purely my opinion here - is the cheesy stories about members cars. How many times can you refer to your car as "she" or "Mabel".

In the latest issue the base story on the blue 64 Wildcat 2 door hardtop was interesting but the ad nauseum of "Cubs" crap and baseball tie ins was too much.

We get it. We are into old cars and specifically Buicks because of events that happened in the past. That fellow member, had his father been into 64 Chevys, would have now been a loyal 64 Chevy owner and writer.

I am personally sick of the anecdotal stories of how members found their "loved one"

Contrast that to the Prime Minister 63 Buick story, which did not include rote sentimentality, but traced the history of that interesting and important car.

In my opinion, the Bugle suffers from over editorization. Too much is trying to be crammed into the pages. The font size is entirely too small, the layout of photos is modern-esqe to the point o busy-ness. The gold standard here is Collectible Automobile, which has an eye friendly layout and makes reading an article straightforward.

Pete's writing is excellent. It may be informative for some readers, but in my case I have read and re-read stories and books on 63-64 probably totalling - literally - 500 + hours.

Where are the articles on restoration? How about copying a HCC take and do a restoration profile (some of our members have had cars featured in there)

Once the National is done, I am reverting to being a Buick Club donor only. That's the only way I could stop getting the Bugle.

[38Buick 80C]

Bryan,

Can I ask for one small favor, when you are done with your Bugles, donate them to your local library or retirement home or give them to a vintage car sales place or keep them in your car and place them in or on a vintage Buick when you see one. Though you may not enjoy them someone else might.

[BUICK RACER]

I discussed all this in our Buicktown Board of Directors meeting tonight, we all challenged each other with the chore of how not only recruit members but how to get folks to run for office for the chapter, as well as all that goes with it! I know several of our members have sent in suggestions on Student memberships, scholarships and all kinds of things to the BCA Board, also.

I'm not going to say anymore, just wish all a safe and wonderful trip to Ames!

[Guest BJM]

Bryan,

Can I ask for one small favor, when you are done with your Bugles, donate them to your local library or retirement home or give them to a vintage car sales place or keep them in your car and place them in or on a vintage Buick when you see one. Though you may not enjoy them someone else might.

I can do that. Madrid has a nice retirement community, but not sure we want 85 year olds joining the BCA.

[The Old Guy]

The problem as I see it is that there is too much emphasis on 400 point perfect cars ( which are judged by many incompetent judges ) and not enough on driving and enjoying our Buicks. The early years of the BCA had members milling around the parking lot discussing their Buicks and finding out from different members ,how to make their cars go down the road better.

Many of the Buicks at the national meet do not come out of their enclosed trailer until the morning of judging, anf the members that own them know nothing more about them than what it cost to bring it to "perfection"

I can afford to pay the dues, but I just don't feel I am getting ,for my money, what I want. Th Ames BCA meet is 9 hours from home, and although I have never missed one yet, i am going to miss this one.

I hope your meet goes well, and everyone enjoys themselves.

[Guest Dans 77 Limited]

So what PRODUCTIVE ideas do the members have to add value to the club?

Saying dues should be less is not productive as it will cause the club to cease to exist. It is time to move beyond that.

For instance I believe the BDE gives you a merchandise credit or something like that when you renew. I think if we add value selling a potential member and keeping existing members will be much easier even at the higher dues amount.

So what are your thoughts?

The last time this subject came up I gave an idea as to how to change it and I got more or less told I didnt know what I was talking about and one BOD member told me that maybe I was in the wrong club.

I gave my idea ....... and it was dropped and forgotten as soon as the post slipped from the front page. Its somebody elses turn

Dan

[Booreatta]

I can do that. Madrid has a nice retirement community, but not sure we want 85 year olds joining the BCA.

Bryan I agree the cost of Membership is high, but the club is now solvent. I agree you should take your old Bugles in your car and when you see any Buick on any used car lot stop and leave your Bugle in the car for the next owner. Most car sales people don't mind in fact they see it as an added value to them to sell the car. About the articles in the Buick you get out what you put in. I have to ask the question, when was the last time you submitted an article for the Bugle. You can control the content of your article and no one else. I am glad that I don't have to walk around in Pete's shoes and come up with a new article every month. Its very hard work and I don't think I could do it. I don't agree with every article in the Bugle and some articles are for the lack of a better word, goofy. I can tell you that when someone writes an article and it is printed, it is a lot of pride for the writer.

Running a club takes money and running a magazine takes participation, do an article and send it in and see if you get published, you might change your mind

Edited July 15, 2010 by Booreatta
spelling (see edit history)

[Thriller]

I think the issue of joining / retaining membership is quite complex. We have been in an economic downturn - I understand we are in better shape north of the 49th parallel, but folks have lost their jobs or taken cuts in pay / benefits. Two things are certain - death and taxes - and taxes seem to only increase. Depending on one's income source(s), that can be an issue, and luxuries get dropped.

Brian - at least this year, membership isn't (initially) required to attend the National correct? If I remember correctly, non-members registering for the National pay a premium, but they wind up with a membership, so either the first year membership, or the National, is discounted depending how you want to look at it.

Joe - I can't speak to earlier days of the BCA. The BCA is older than I am. Times have changed and not necessarily for the better. Perhaps the cost of restorations has risen enough that some folks feel a trailer is the best option. For me, it will cost about the same in fuel to drive the '54 or the truck and trailer with the '54. The difference being that I have more confidence in the truck and it has more modern conveniences, such as A/C. Perhaps the BCA members of today just aren't as hardy and adventurous as they were 30 or 20 years ago. Perhaps time constraints are tighter, making the need to travel closer to freeway speeds to cut some time off the trip than taking a more leisurely drive to get to the meet. Perhaps the demographics have changed to the degree that many BCA members don't feel confident in making a cross country trip in that car (which may go to your point about owners not working on their own cars like they used to). I don't know, but I'm not sure the 400 point judging is over-emphasized. Yes, maybe there are more trailer queens in the club than there used to be, but I'm not sure that in and of itself is a bad thing. I don't like cars coming out of the trailer just for the judging. If I am a judge, unless that car is in my group, I don't get to see the car. Heck, even if I'm getting my car judged and have to stay with the car, I won't necessarily be able to see such cars. We do have people in the club for different reasons. We have different tastes and differing priorities. I respect you too much to say you are wrong, and I certainly agree with part of your view of things. There are some groups within the club that do some driving, and some of those tours are tied in with the National.

I really don't want to go here, but is the club solvent due to the dues increase, or the patron program (working from memory here on what it is called)?

Another thing to chew on...if you think it is hard to recruit in the USA, what do you think it is like outside the country where the dues are higher to get poorer delivery of the Bugle and in many cases, chapters are too far away to get very involved in chapter activities.

Well, I know I've typed a missive again...and it's way past my bed time, so I may very well not be making sense....

[progoofoff]

I can do that. Madrid has a nice retirement community, but not sure we want 85 year olds joining the BCA.

So, in your opinion, I should drop my membership in 10 years?

[buick840]

$50-

Many clubs here in Australia have a similar membership fee and nothing like "The Bugle"

The magazine is excellent for a club publication and in my humble opinion it is worth that money alone. My overseas renewal will be sent as soon it comes due again

As for lack of new memberships and loss of renewals........ I don't believe the cost factor is the reason here.

Times are changing and interests are changing.

[Dandy Dave]

When my dues came last year I put in for another three. I think that the still rocky economy does not help either. Dandy Dave!

[Guest BJM]

I can tell you that when someone writes an article and it is printed, it is a lot of pride for the writer.

Running a club takes money and running a magazine takes participation, do an article and send it in and see if you get published, you might change your mind

Pete always tells us he has content for years and years so content is never an issue.

This will sound 'harsh' but if it's a fluff piece about someone's car, written by the owner, then I don't care if they get personal pride from being featured in the Bugle. I have at last determined I will not give a "sex" to any of my Centurions. I think Centurions are men anyway.

After my BCA membership is up in March 2011, I am sending in my donation only. I asked the BCA National office to just stop sending me Bugles, that I wanted to stay a member and was told that is not possible. So the next best thing is monetary support without a de facto membership.

[Guest BJM]

So, in your opinion, I should drop my membership in 10 years?

All old car clubs need to get younger. So passing the magazine off to old folks might lead to a sentimental journey but not viable new members.

Just think about your age when you joined clubs, then deduct 5-10 years. That would be a "target" audience.

I am not in the "we need new blood" crowd. Like some others have suggested, we are in the middle of a demographic shift and I too would rather have less members, more dedicated and interested, rather then 20 gazillion members.

I am for decontenting the Bugle and getting back to the concepts of "The Old Guy". Basically I joined so I could be involved in a local group - the Chapter. National organizations are necessary, yes, but by their nature are meant as overseers.

My dream club is getting together on a Saturday night in one of the member's garage to help on a project, a real "Man" or "members" cave, with beer and good talk and getting some restoration done.

And the once a month get togethers at a members house or restaurant with families and old cars. Right now I am 100% isolated. This forum regrettably is my window to the outside collectinga nd Buick world. After the national meet, I am shutting it down so to speak. I am going to run threads on my 4 Buicks and that's it, no more politics. ( I can hear the cheering now)

So having strong chapters and regions is more important to me then losing members on a macro scale. I am sure it's done, maybe not - but every new member and re-joiner like me - should get a communication fromt he closest chapter followed up by a personal visit - especially when that visit is in an old Buick. Foster that kind of marque friendship and the club will at least be strong and probably experience small growth.

I'm 46 1/2 and own four junky Buicks, all non runners. But I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. Meaning in 5 to 10 years I should have between 3 and 6 Buicks I can enjoy at club events in rotation, offer advice and help to other BCA members.

Why is that important. Because I am 46 and have struggled mightily to get to this point. The old car hobby is too expensive compared to the old days. How many times have we seen people sell cars after just getting started (me included)

So, if I am 46 my collecting window is the next 30-40 years. I can be active in the club before passing the torch.

So, if I am "typical" which I may not be - then as a member at the tail end of the baby boom years, I think there will still be sufficient numbers to sustain and keep the club viable for a lot of years.

But let's focus on micro managing the club by making sure the chapters and regions and affiliated clubs are strong and then delivering a good national club experience.

Edited July 15, 2010 by BJM (see edit history)

[Larry Schramm]

I guess I have a simple question and that is how does the BCA dues compared to other national clubs. I belong to a number of other car organizations and BCA is now in the premium price territory for what I view as a mass market appeal. As a reality check, what are the dues for both the Model T club and the Chevrolet club? They are $35.00/year. What do their publications look like compared to the Bugle? I do not belong to the Model T club, but can compare the Bugle to the Generator & Distributor. Is there a material difference between the two that supports the dues difference?

Some of the things that need to be considered are like many before me have said are we attracting the younger demographic members and are the dues providing the service and informaton that the members desire. Not just more stuff that can be done and adjusting the price to match.

Think of a microwave oven. Do you really need a microwave that has 50 different power levels, browning, turntable, timers, etc..... OR just a timer with maybe two power levels, reheat/defrost & high/cook. Think of how you really use the product and then are you willing to pay the higher price for features that you will never use?

Just some thoughts IMO.

Edited July 15, 2010 by Larry Schramm (see edit history)

[Guest BJM]

I guess I have a simple question and that is how does the BCA dues compared to other national clubs.

Larry,

This general topic was covered very thoroughly about 6 months ago. Bill Stoneberg has doen an excellent job of research to determine that our magazine/club costs are usual. In fact, most club dues are at least $35 now.

Those who do say that $50 is still a bargain - it's all about perception. Of my meager earnings from 2 jobs where I earn a lower middle class income, about $25 is left over each month if I truly pay all my debts in that month (no robbing of Peter to pay Paul) so $50 hurts.

Who really puts $5 in a cookie jar each month to save for the BCA dues each year? When it would get to $40 my daughter would remind me we had not had a daddy/daughter date for awhile and out would come the $40 to start all over again.

On the other hand, someone retired with 2 pensions, 401k, SSN and the house paid for, well $50 is chump change. Or the member making six figures. If I made 6 figures, yes, $50 is no big deal.

[Larry Schramm]

Bryan,

Glad(I think) to know that I was not the only person working two jobs. I currently have no plans to drop my membership but there are others that do not have the ability to make some of the choices that you and I are able to make. Also remember that the younger crowd has a lot of other items to be involved in and spend their money and their money is usually more limited.

As for perception, if not addressed, then to the customer it becomes reality. It becomes a larger challenge to get back on the horizon for the customer to purchase your product when that perception sets in. For a reality check, $50.00 is a 42% premium over $35.00. Tough to think about.

[buick5563]

I'm not sure about anyone else, but I would NEVER have met any of you without the BCA. The friendships I have made through this club are the reason that I stay in it. When I see death notices of BCA folks, or peoples moms, or dogs...whatever, it pains me because these are FRIENDS. The Bugle is great, the club spends money I have no clue about. I don't really care. True, I don't work two jobs, I feel for those of you who do, truly, but everything costs. As far as the driving versus trailering, with all due respect, so what. The Nationals are what you make of them. The awards ceremony/ dinner is what I hate. Guess what? I don't go. I would rather be doing what Joe said, kibitzing with my Buick loving brothers and sisters. So I do. I go hang out with other folks who bailed on the Pomp(ous) and Circumstance.

I know, I know, "But Mike, you have a Senior car, what about you?" I drive it. I drove it to the Nationals where I got that award. Will I drive the convertible when I finish it? Dunno, ask me in two years when it's close to finishing. I restore these cars, not to win prizes or accolades, I restore them to factory original because THAT is what I thought the Buick club was about. It won a prize because it looked good and I did a good job researching what it was SUPPOSED to look like when new.

My hat is off to Bill and Rick for doing what needed to be done to pull off a National so I could see my friends again.

See y'all in Iowa

[Bhigdog]

I don't have a dog in this fight anymore since I let my BCA membership lapse about 6 months ago after being a member for about 12 years, I'd remove it from my profile if I knew how, I did try.

When the dues were $35 I stayed a member even though, in truth, I got little out of it. I must echo BJM's description of the mag, so there was little for me there. As for useable REAL information, not there. I gotta also admit if I read of one more car named Irma or Josephene I would retch. Mine are named 55 and 57.

For the folks that bleed Buick I'm sure the club is filling a need. But for the ones who like Buicks along with lots of other things the club just isn't doing it, at least not $50 bucks worth.

I also gotta echo Mike M's reasoning, especially re the banquet. But there just aren't enough Nats to go around.

I don't have the answer on how to be more things to more Buick owners but whatever it is, it's not there now...............Bob

Edited July 15, 2010 by Bhigdog (see edit history)

[BUICK RACER]

Hmm, something is starting to come through here. The folks that visit these forums are in the MINORITY in the BCA, I think out of a couple hundred members in the Buicktown Chapter, there are only 5 or 6 of us that post, maybe a few more might so whatever is said here doesn't really mean squat as far as majority!

Folks, it's about the friendships and the cars are now secondary, Just like The Old Guy said, kickin' tires and telling stories are the best of the best, to go to great lengths to drive to anywhere is fun with or to see your friends/Family, but then the uptightness that the Judging brings, can just burst the bubble of fun! I'm sorry, but The Old Guy is right!

Now, here's a thought! Got a bunch of girls and guys, 20s-40s average, Regal GS 3800 Supercharged and Pontiacs and Monte Carlos too! How would you convince them to join the BCA????????? They have their own internet club!

redirect

Sure they could be nerds, weren't most of you before the word was invented??

They might drink beer, they like to have fun working on their cars with their friends, show them off at the show, race 'em some of them, but what does the BCA have to make them want to be members?????????

They are our future, and deja vu 1970 when the BCA said the Gran Sport was too new, and another club was formed, and history repeats itself!

Think about it, folks!

[The Old Guy]

Thanks for the "back up " Roberta !! The BCA was a great group until they decided that fun with old cars was secondary to "perceived perfection ""

The young group with the Regals are really good guys , and I would like to see them accepted as I was 40 years ago. I was a "hot rodder, and after joining the BCA was challenged to to a Buick "right"

I accepted the challenge and enjoyed the BCA for a LOOOOONG timw.

Edited July 16, 2010 by The Old Guy (see edit history)

[NTX5467]

Here's a thought . . . the younger Buick enthusiasts (and there ARE some!!) mostly seem to have their OWN segment of the Internet on forums that many BCA members have no knowledge of. And they DO own Front Wheel Drive later model Buicks (Regals, for example) and DO share information on similar W-platform GM cars with Pontiac Grand Prix (front wheel drive versions, where the hotter hot rod parts usually are), just like WE used to do when we were new to the hobby. No real difference, other than we were "then" and they are "now".

They grew up in a world of 4-door cars, usually. We grew up in a world with lots of variety in model, body style, color, engine, transmission . . . including the desired 2-door hardtops and convertibles. 30mpg/highway vs 17-18mpg/highway, usually. Performance from more than 4 gears in the automatic transmission, rather than three (or less) with a high-torque V-8.

Now, there ARE some younger Buick enthusiasts in here, as we've seen over the years. This is good, as is the "Buicks and Its Parts" activities at the BCA National Meets.

Could we (the BCA entity) reach out to the RegalGS.org people, the turbo-Buick people, the GS people, and other Buick enthusiast organizations (Internet-based or brick/mortar) to get them to our national meets or more regional activities? Yes, but it's usually THEM, with all due respect, that decide that THEY don't really need US, or that WE can't really offer them something they don't already have (or perceive they need) as THEY already have THEIR own part of the car hobby world.

Every car hobbiest will tend to gravitate to those with whom they feel the most comfortable and welcome OR have vehicles of similar models and orientations. You might get them to cross-over into a BCA group, but that will usually be temporary, by observation.

Now, several years ago, I discovered a Cadillac-oriented website (in hunting for EFI information, circa 1975) where a high school male found a 1975 (or so) Eldorado and wanted to restore it. He did a lot of it in auto shop, learning as he went. He found a local (N.E. USA) who did remans of the EFI computer, so all of that worked. His website on the restoration had lots of pictures documenting what he was doing. It took several years, but he got it done and then proudly took it to a CLC event and took home a well-deserved trophy. You can imagine a grin wider than a "toothy" '50s Buick grille on his face, probably not unlike what 5563 (formerly 5564) experienced when he first squeeled the tires on his '55 Buick (assisted by Old-Tank in the rebuild as a mentor and knowledge source).

Perhaps we need a new slogan to use to market the club to new members . . . "Restore a Buick--We'll Help You Do it"? The collective BCA could be the "Old-Tank" to new, prospective members (a.k.a. 5563/5564, at the time).

I know there are some members who receive a great deal of prestige from their vehicle being in the club magazine -- and others who don't want to read about it, either. This is normal, but I find these articles usually interesting as it ALSO conveys their love of Buicks and the one that is pictured in the magazine. In some cases, extreme guts and "trusting nature" in purchasing an older vehicle across the country and then driving it home (chronicled in the article, usually), too? So, they might not be the first article I would read, but they might be the second or third articles I read in the magazine--part of the puzzle that makes the vehicle hobby the fun and adventurous and interesting hobby that it is. I do feel that Pete does a pretty good job of balancing his content to cover most of "all bases" over the course of a year.

We've beat the dead dog of BCA National Dues until there's no fur left! Many variations of what "value" is, which we should respect, for a diverse group of members.

Perhaps we need to split the BCA into two groups--one for pre-1977 Buicks and one for post-1976 Buicks. I found another GM group that was that way, or at least the "modern" one, the other day. My gut suspicion is that the pre-1977 group would endure and the post-1976 group would flounder . . . purely as the enthusiasts of the later model Buicks already have their own places to be and are happy to be just "there", with little time from their busy lives of having young families, young mortgages, and staying employed to be in the BCA also.

I do feel that there needs to be a large-umbrella Buick club that honors all Buicks, as the BCA does, but I also recognize that other Buick enthusiast groups have made their own umbrellas, and are happy with them--which we can't change very easily.

Perhaps we need to stop obsessing about "numbers" of members and just relax and make the BCA and its local chapters work as well as we can? Focus on networking. Focus on friendships. Focus on mentoring and assisting others as needed. Focus on being positive--period--even if the Buick or its equipment is not what WE might like ourselves. Focus on working for the total good of the marque and its enthusiasts, as best we can. If we, individually, can't assist them, try to refer them to somebody that might, rather than "slamming the door in their face"--no rocket science, just good marketing and merchandising and CUSTOMER SERVICE.

Due to the nature of the beast, we're always going to repel members with the requirement of also being a member of the national group. That "money" thing, as to them, the BCA chapter is no different than an "open", non-affiliated group.

If the recent "member-at-large" situation will work for a one-time deal, with the intent that the m-a-l will desire to get a full membership in the local and national group, plus electronic newsletters for many chapters, perhaps a new marketing plan might be to keep them in the loop of local activities, inviting them to come to members (as a "visitor") when they can, but if they accompany us in an activity, that we charge them to be a m-a-l (for insurance purposes). That would probably entice more local Buick enthusiasts to become more active and let them "pay as you go" (the m-a-l charge) without having a national membership. This might also bring in some additional income for the national group, if they did manage to figure in a small profit ($1-2 extra/event) in the m-a-l insurance charge.

So, event-based m-a-l pricing, local chapter electronic newsletters, no national magzine or membership status. This way, we could get them involved locally (which many might desire to do) but side-step the bigger issue of selling them on full BCA membership (which might not really appeal to many, for various reasons).

Another end result might be that if they participate as m-a-l in several chapter events, over the course of a year, the m-a-l charges would have paid a good bit of the BCA National Dues amount, but piece by piece rather than in one lump sum, but would not have the club magazine or other benefits of full BCA membership per se. In some cases, the greater value for the same money might motivate them to become full BCA members who can participate at the local level, freely and "free", with local chapter membership being optional for them (as it is now).

Key thing is for them to at least come around and stay for a while, before running back into "the forrest" . . .

Just some thoughts and observations . . .

NTX5467

[MrEarl]

My gawd what a bunch of whining, sniflin, mamby pambies....running around screaming the sky is falling . If you ask me the BCA has never been in better shape. Our President actually joins us here on the forum and is no stuff shirt. Our Treasurer does a great job of maintaining the budget and keeping us abreast of how we're doing financially. The VP and the rest of the board have done a great job over the last year working to keep this ship not only afloat but on a forward course. The Bugle editor is a super guy and one of the most personable editors I have ever read. He does an outstanding job writing human interest stories about people and their Buick. If you want to learn how to paint a car, there are shelves of how to books at Barnes and Noble.

I admit some of the ceremonies have been poorly ran and boring but it was worth having to endure that just to be able to applaud your friend for winning at least a bronze. I don't show my cars, I know what I have, don't need no body to tell me. But I personally enjoy cheering for the folks that win the awards and watching the proud smiles when they hear their name called out. Hell after shedding the blood, sweat, tears and time to get their cars in the shape they have, then they have every right to be in the spotlight for a few fleeting moments and receive an applause. Maybe it would help to hit the bar a few more times before going in, right Derek... We only get to ride this ol roller coaster once my friends, there's no getting back in the ticket line. Quit your bitchin an start kibitzin.

and uhhh, next 54 I buy... I think I'm gonna name her Sue....

[Thriller]

So having strong chapters and regions is more important to me then losing members on a macro scale. I am sure it's done, maybe not - but every new member and re-joiner like me - should get a communication fromt he closest chapter followed up by a personal visit - especially when that visit is in an old Buick. Foster that kind of marque friendship and the club will at least be strong and probably experience small growth.

I know many chapters do this - that is why we have the new members page in the Bugle (isn't that where this all started?).

I am curious though. If you are going to make a donation that is somewhere in the range of equivalent to BCA dues, why not continue to be a member? Even if you don't want to read the Bugle as it is now, it gives you some "spreading around" material. Perhaps that would even lead to to some other Buick owners in your part of the world that you aren't currently aware of...the next thing you know, you could be having your regular man cave get togethers and restoration fun.

This discussion isn't moot, but there are a few things to keep in mind.

1. Pete doesn't own the Bugle...he's the editor...we, as members, own the Bugle. If you want to see more restoration articles, try writing some. If you have a bent on history, research and write about your car's history, a part (like '29 sidemount covers), or whatever it is you want to see more of. Heck, even write a "letter to the editor" suggesting you would like to see more of X type of article and challenge others to also write in with what they would like to see. Perhaps you'll start a groundswell.
   
2. As Roberta mentions, participants of these forums are a small minority of BCA members and the forums include non-members as well. What we don't know is whether or not we are a representative group. Perhaps we are the most affluent, or perhaps just the most tech-savvy, or the ones with the most time on our hands (instead of doing something in the garage like some of us probably ought to be).
   
3. As we have discussed in prior times (some would say ad nauseum), club members ought to be promoters / marketers of the club. We don't all need to sign up 5 or 10 new members, although that would be nice. However, if you say nasty things about the club and the Bugle, that at minimum will turn off most people who hear it. Your mother probably told you not to say anything if you can't say anything nice (at least in public where others can hear you). Within a closed room like the membership meeting at a National, or by contacting BoD members or letters to the Bugle editor, that stays within the club at least.
   
4. Creation of the modified division and driven class have expanded how things are done at the national meet. If that isn't an attempt to become more inclusive, I don't know what is. If you drive your car to the meet, you can get a nice driven award. If your car doesn't meet the criteria for being stock, there is a modified driven award. If you want to compete in the 400 point judging, you can. If you want to ignore the 400 point judging, you can. I think the cruise to Jewell is fabulous - participants were able to choose to drive their car, or if they didn't want to, could catch a bus / ride. If some of the cars go back into their hermetically sealed trailers, so what? On these forums we are often saying "it's your car, do with it what you want". So let the owners of those cars do what they want with them.
   
5. If you want to hang out on the show field and talk Buicks until all hours, do it. You could attract a crowd and get your enjoyment of the meet that way. If everyone else is to hot / tired / whatever to stick it out, only then will the party be over. Any bets on how late folks are on the show field or in a hotel parking lot after coming back from Jewell? I don't expect Rick to be among them...he'll be getting a well deserved rest.
   

We do have to recognize that we are a diverse group - we've got everything from brass era to modern, slow cars to race cars, dead spot on stock to wildly modified, focus on a single year model, to having every possible Buick they can get their hands on, teens / young adults to retirees, single, married, divorced, no kids yet, kids in tow, staying home because of the kids, the kids don't want to be seen with me, the kids have finally moved out, hey, look, I brought my grandchild with me...etc. We have all sorts of personalities and, guess what, just like everywhere else in life, not everyone is going to like me or you and some folks are going to be rubbed the wrong way. Deal with it in your way and move on. Stick with the folks you like and hope to meet new people you like.

With a diverse group there are diverse interests. With diverse interests come a variety of ideas and everyone won't like all of them. That is part of the reason something like the national meet is a juggling act. The organizers are trying to find something to please everyone and, unfortunately, are not necessarily well-thanked for their efforts...we'd rather belly-ache about the one thing we didn't like.

Now that I'm done rambling...getting incoherent again, someone had mentioned "Buick and its Parts". I've been in touch with Jerry Bodden and the program is no more. It had a six year run I'm told. The Junior Judging is still a go. Now, as a parent who brings children to the meets, I'm disappointed. I'm also hopeful that something can / will be arranged to pique the interests of any youngsters there (of course if mine are the only ones, then it definitely falls to me).

[Thriller]

Maybe it would help to hit the bar a few more times before going in, right Derek... We only get to ride this ol roller coaster once my friends, there's no getting back in the ticket line. Quit your bitchin an start kibitzin.

and uhhh, next 54 I buy... I think I'm gonna name her Sue....

Um, there's bars in Iowa? Oh right...brewery tour...I'm in my happy place now...

Another Boy Named Sue? How do you do?

[Guest BJM]

I am curious though. If you are going to make a donation that is somewhere in the range of equivalent to BCA dues, why not continue to be a member?

BCA won't allow me to be a member and not receive the Bugle.

I have way too many periodicals as it is. I would agree to be a paying member if Mike Book sent my Bugle somewhere else OR in lieu of the Bugle, I got a membership roster.

[bhclark]

Now, as a parent who brings children to the meets, I'm disappointed. I'm also hopeful that something can / will be arranged to pique the interests of any youngsters there (of course if mine are the only ones, then it definitely falls to me).

Well, if everything goes as planned and the car is ready and the wife gets her way, she's planning on stashing about 4 or 5 kids in the car. I may ride in the trunk!

Now as far as the comment about 85 year olds, let me tell you a story. Sorry there are no pictures, but I was really busy and forgot my camera.

Several months ago, a local retirement community contacted me about getting together some old Buicks for their members. The theme was to be "Buicks, Brats and Beer!" I was hoping for some help, but at the last minute I managed to round up enough drivers to take 4 of my own Buicks, got Ted "Wildcat" Nagel to join us as well as a friend from the local Model T club.

The community was thrilled that we came out. It was quite a site to see a lineup of 50s and 60s Buicks on one side and 2010 models on the other side, provided by a local dealership.

While I agree those 85 year olds might not be signing up for memberships, they do have younger relatives and they do tell stories (over and over) about their old Buicks!

I plan on dropping off a few spare Bugles when I get a chance for their enjoyment (could use some donations to help with this, as I do save my own copies).

There was no entry fee, no prizes, nothing but the enjoyment of seeing smiles on all of the faces. (and a few free beers and brats!)

You might ask, what does that have to do with the BCA? Well, the director of entertainment for the community contacted the BCA office looking for Buicks and they directed her to me! So, the BCA was the only reason the event was a success!

See you in AMES!

[MrEarl]

My gawd what a bunch of whining, sniflin, mamby pambies....running around screaming the sky is falling . If you ask me the BCA has never been in better shape. Our President actually joins us here on the forum and is no stuff shirt. Our Treasurer does a great job of maintaining the budget and keeping us abreast of how we're doing financially. The VP and the rest of the board have done a great job over the last year working to keep this ship not only afloat but on a forward course. The Bugle editor is a super guy and one of the most personable editors I have ever read. He does an outstanding job writing human interest stories about people and their Buick. If you want to learn how to paint a car, there are shelves of how to books at Barnes and Noble.

I admit some of the ceremonies have been poorly ran and boring but it was worth having to endure that just to be able to applaud your friend for winning at least a bronze. I don't show my cars, I know what I have, don't need no body to tell me. But I personally enjoy cheering for the folks that win the awards and watching the proud smiles when they hear their name called out. Hell after shedding the blood, sweat, tears and time to get their cars in the shape they have, then they have every right to be in the spotlight for a few fleeting moments and receive an applause. Maybe it would help to hit the bar a few more times before going in, right Derek... We only get to ride this ol roller coaster once my friends, there's no getting back in the ticket line. Quit your bitchin an start kibitzin.

and uhhh, next 54 I buy... I think I'm gonna name her Sue....

:eek:whoaaa, did I say that??? :confused: I had a rough day at work yesterday guy's, dealing with a bunch of whining construction contractors and then come on here and read this. I really appreciate most of what everyone has to say. Some of it is the ugly truth and we need to be paying serious attention to it. So, sorry, and you're really not mambie pambies.... :cool: ?

but I just might name my next 54, which I hope is a period correct hot rod Century, BigDog......

and Derek the Meet Agenda calls for there to be a "Cash Bar" before the banquet. Like the one you and I rotated through the line of in Seattle I think it was....That's what I was suggesting Mike hit before the Banquet. Of course if you have a full flask before going in that would help too....

SEE YOU ALL IN AMES!!!!!!!!

[Guest BJM]

While I agree those 85 year olds might not be signing up for memberships, they do have younger relatives and they do tell stories (over and over) about their old Buicks!

Good point.