BCA members - are you guilty of this?

[Barney Eaton]

Attached is a post from the Reatta discussion. BCA members need to be aware of what others "feel" about their presents at shows.

-----------------------------------------------------------

I am not renewing my membership. It was the first car club I ever joined. I've been a car guy forever. To be honest with you, it never did much for me. It was a bargain for sure. I get more out advice out of this forum than the BCA/Reatta Div could ever dream of. I know the officers all work hard and do what they can. I can certainly appreciate that. The lone BCA event I attended was Rochester. The cars were great. I went away feeling like an outsider. "What do you drive?" "1988 Reatta" "Hey, Karl, How's the Roadmaster? I'll be right over. Nice meeting you, umm Chris, right?." I never got to realize the benefits of membership. So, Adios BCA. Thanks for the ride. I'll be enjoying my lifetime membership in the " one Wolf" car club.

[serb]

Chris has to remember that many do not know much about the Reatta so in order to hide their lack of knowledge, they are not going to get into a discussion regarding them. Believe it or not, I find the same thing with my Riviera. It is almost like it is a different marque other than Buick. Would I quit the BCA? Hell no! I now have a 2nd classic Buick but that is not the reason. You can learn a lot from other people, not only on this forum, but from the Bugle and personal contact with club members and at shows.

There are not many Reattae at the shows that I have been to but maybe Chris ought to seek out the other owners or if there aren't any others, he ought to slow down, drop the chip and talk BUICKS with the others.

stevo

[HurstGN]

Stevo is right. It could be the lack of knowledge of the Reatta. The other reason could be the age, or lack there of, the Reatta. Those of us with newer vehicles are often "snubbed", shunned" or otherwise, only for the fact our car isn't old enough to be "Dad's car from the 50's and 60's" or not older than dirt. And I'd bet it's worse at a regular show that's not 100% Buicks. I can't count how many times I've been told I have a nice "Monte SS".

[dship]

Don't give up, Chris! The only time I run into what Chris and Stevo have experienced is when I take my '92 Riviera to either an all GM car show or a general cruise night...not as much when I bring my '85 Riv. Since Reatta's and '92 & '93 Riv's were small production runs, you're never going to find many at any show. I take that as owning a car that not many others have and in my opinion is a good thing! I've actually witnessed folks make a point of walking quite quickly passed my '92 with their eyes peeking out of the corner of their head...avoid all eye contact at all costs!! My wife and I just laugh. I also find that belonging to car clubs allow you to tap into the experienced brains of others who share the same passion.

[Mark Shaw]

Frankly, I felt the same way several years ago after attending my first local BCA event. All my Buicks have wood spoke wheels, & I couldn't find anybody with older cars in the local BCA chapter. I had previously belonged to a BCA chapter in N. California with similar issues.

It didn't re-join the BCA until I attended the Buick Centennial where I found other BCA members with common interests. Since then, three of us founded the PreWar Division and have had lots of support from BCA members with prewar Buicks.

Any club is what you make of it. The more you put into it, the more you will get out of it.... The Reatta Division already exists and appears to serve it's members with information and activities specific to the Reatta. "You can please some of the people some of the time...."

[jscheib]

Well said Mark.

I think the BCA is wide enough in spectrum to cover all makes and models, and it is what the members make of it. I know several Reatta owners that are BCA and Reatta Division members. The person complaining never did mention if he belonged to the Reatta Division did he. For me, I was really impressed with the gathering of Reattas in Batavia and I was more "tuned-in" with the Pre-War group in Rochester.

John

[Erik]

Being an overseas member I don't get a lot out of the meets as it is extremely expencive to participate, especially if I have to bring Tallulah

I get my Bugle about a month late, when everybody already has praised it to the skies.

My local club: Buick Club of Denmark isn't even mentioned in the Bugle.

So, am I a happy member of BCA?

H... YES!!!

With a good conscience I can read and write in this forum and get all the help I need. I get to share your experiance with vendors. I get to read an amazing monthly! If I need more it is my own fault for not asking!

In Denmark owning a straight eight non hotrodded car puts me in the middle of nowhere.

US cars are supposed to be V8's. Old cars are English.

Still when I overcome my shyness and turn up at a meet, I'm treated with a certain respect although nobody really knows what I'm driving.

Being a member of a club is not always about ME but also about what I can do for others.

Felling left outside at a meet is a bummer, but still is not a very good reason to cancel a membership.

[Guest brh]

This is unfortune, however I have had a bad experience or two at car shows. Stuff happens. Would I cancel The BCA--no way! I admit I have favorites but I don't expect people to like my car, its what brought me there. I like the older, 50s 60s and some 70s but a Riv convert from the early 80s is a nice car too. The Grand National guys hang together, but enjoy B. S.ing just like everyone else. On the small spectrum yes I have had a bad experience or two, but I have never had a bad show. Food for thought.

[Matt Harwood]

I'll admit that I often feel like a stranger at BCA shows. Granted, I don't have my car finished yet, so it's kind of like trying to join little league without a glove. I've made a lot of outstanding friends on-line, and think that connecting in person at a show would make a difference for me. I'm not very social in real life and tend to quietly keep to myself. Even at big shows, I usually go look but don't do much networking or talking shop. Maybe that will change once my Century starts showing up and people recognize it.

Would I drop out of the BCA because of it? I don't think so. I love the Bugle and figure that once my car is done, I'll be very active in the club. Right now, I'm just treading water.

I wish I could find the strength and the time to work on my Buick. I'm really bummed that it's just been sitting there for 2 years...

[Guest simplyconnected]

Sorry the first guy wants to quit. Maybe he’s looking for something else, because he gave a lot of positive reasons to stay. He mentioned the help he got, but none he GAVE other members.

Then restorers like Matt, who really hang in there helping other members, just needs a little boost on his own car:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Matt Harwood</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wish I could find the strength and the time to work on my Buick. I'm really bummed that it's just been sitting there for 2 years... </div></div> Take heart, Matt. Every restorer goes through idle times. The task is monumental, and most of the boring work involves cleaning car parts. If you had a couple restorer buddies, they tend to keep each other going by sharing work.

Post lots of pictures around your garage and keep your eyes on the prize. It helps to make a to-do list. In Detroit, we draw a line down the middle with two headings; INSIDE WORK (for inclement weather days), and GOOD WEATHER (for the major work). Do a little at a time, and ENJOY your hobby. God knows, restorations are challenging, but eventually your car will be finished, and beautiful; even better than factory-new.

[Bill Stoneberg]

Matt,

2 years is not a long time.... It may seem like it but in the whole scheme of life its just a drop in the bucket.

I too have been discouraged, po'd and about every other emotion a man can feel about a car. But you get over it and continue on. It helps to have a friend or a bunch of friends pushing you. 7 + years and its almost done finally.

Hang in there and remember its like eating an elephant, a little at a time and soon it will be gone.

[serb]

Matt,

When you look at where you were and where you are, you have made a lot of progress. I, for one, have enjoyed reading your progress on your web site. You have gone through a period of adjustment due to a job change and the housing market going into the dump. You are now on the road to recovery.....Chin up my man. We are waiting patiently for the final episode on your blog. Whether you are aware or not, your blog is not only entertaining but educational. You have made me think and ponder while reading your stuff which probably,(no doubt), saved me from making many mistakes.

Hope to meet you some day and have a drink or two since we are only about 200 miles apart.

stevo

[JohnD1956]

We've been with this club in heart, if not in the roster, for a number of years now. And actually I am heartened to hear others say they have felt like outsiders at meets, for I often felt that way too. One reason for that is the diversity of this club. Look how many years and how many models are represented in the Roster. Given that wide range of cars and broad location of the membership it is not uncommon to find no one else with your exact model car at any given event.

And others who have already posted here are so right when they say sometimes you gotta reach out to the other people. They are justifiably as proud of their car as I am of mine, restored or as it currently sits. I have found that when walking around if you ask a question about a process then the age of the car may not matter as much and a conversation is more likely to spring up. And I have also found that in most conversations, most BCA members will ask about what you're driving and that is your invitiation to brag about your car. In addition I'll find many of them have seen my car and some even had nice things to say.

Also I have found that the more you post here then the more comfortable the entire hobby becomes. A long time ago I didn't post comments because I was actually scared that I would post something stupid and people would verbally attack me. Now look, I post stupid stuff all the time and hardly anyone notices...

[BUICK RACER]

There was a time in the early 70's and even into the 80's when a Gran Sport/Muscle car was shunned by the BCA, maybe one of the reasons it took me so long to join, until 1987. I remember a local Buicktown pot luck summer meeting where one of my Buick friends, probably in his late teens/ early 20s, had a skylark he and his best friend built with a 455 and 2 carbs sticking out of the hood, when he drove it in the host's yard, another chapter member, just younger than me told him, "You can't bring that in here" and that was the last meeting he attended, he rejoined the BCA in 2003, but I doubt he has kept his membership up, I haven't looked at the roster to see.

Before I met "The Old Guy" around '82 or so, I had just got the '68 GS 350 from my parents that they bought for me in '79 for a ride while my new car, the $3106 out door '76 Opel Isuzu I bought to go to work was getting fixed after hitting a cable guard rail in Rochester, NY in a major snow storm after and interview for a JOB, I didn't take, I took the GM job instead, 29 yrs today! If it wasn't for Joe 'taking me under his wing' I probably would not belong or have done what I have done for the BCA and Buicktown in the last 10-20 yrs, VP of BCA, Pres of BCA, Webmaster for BCA, Buicktown, Reatta Division, Buick Driving Enthusiats, Treasurer of BCA, and co-chairperson for the 2008 BCA National. It is really up to the individual to make what they want of their membership in any organization, you can play or work for it to work for you, and mostly you win and gain great friends if you put in just a little effort and make it happen. My .02 cents!

[NTX5467]

It seems there are several lessons here . . .

From the new (or prospective) member's viewpoint -- As existing and active members of a car club--ANY car club--WE are perceived to know anything about any car of that make, it seems. WE are also supposed to like ANY car built by the particular manufacturer, even if it's modified. WE are supposed to be welcoming, friendly, and supportive of any new members. WE are supposed to make the new members feel somewhat welcome and be glad that they are there. Unfortunately, we might not always measure up to these perceptions and expectations.

From the existing members' viewpoint -- Some have more specialized interests than general interests in the products of a particular manufacturer, from our varied experiences and orientations. Some can tend to be highly focused in these orientations, by observation, to the point that anything else doesn't really matter to them--period (i.e., "doesn't exist"). Sometimes, we just aren't prepared to converse intelligently about a vehicle we know little about or might not care about knowing about (for many reasons) OR is out of the model year range we consider "should be known about" (earlier or later model, either way). Sometimes, we are just not willing to accept newer and more modern vehicles as "desireable" or "worthy of our knowledge" as they are still "a used car" to some of us.

Here's an experience I had in another car club (a local club of a single, but multi-make, corporate manufacturer). I have a car similar to a '67 Buick LeSabre Custom 2-dr hardtop. It's an original-configuration car with bucket seats and optional 4bbl V-8 which I have taken some pains to keep original and include a few incognito upgrades over the years. When our club had its first few "show and shines", I was motivated to have the car looking as good as it could (not to be restored or repainted). I put it in the show not knowing if I might win an award or something. When the awards time came around, the only awards were for the more popular "muscle car" vehicles--the ones which everybody was excited about seeing and what all of the buzz was about. I thought, "Oh well, so much for that" and went on as an enthusiastic club member. The next time, same thing . . . except somebody noticed the car and came around and apologized for not having a class for my car's platform. I accepted their apology and thanked them. Third time around, a class for the larger cars and I placed in it.

A few years and annual shows later, we had done some indoor shows with a state-wide show car association (with that type of judging and classification rules). After a few years of that, even finding out that the chrome trailer hitch counted as "one modification" as it was chrome, I decided to put together a new judging and classification scheme for our car club's shows. I worked on it over the winter and presented it to a few of our officers to see what they thought about it. Once they learned of what I was trying to accomplish, they were supportive and we worked out the details to make sure that some cars didn't show against others, for example. At our next annual show in the spring, we did it and further refined it. I refined the judging sheet, other clubs took our sheet and refined it some more, so I took their upgrades and added some more (continuous improvement!) as I learned more about the process and what we were trying to accomplish at these yearly shows.

The other orientation I put in place was to openly welcome ANY and ALL Vehicles of the manufacturer--old, new, custom, modified, race, stock, trucks, military vehicles . . . whatever--period. If we didn't have a class for it, we'd make one. I was extremely proud that we had such a diverse showing of vehicles every year . . . and they were NOT the same every year. If we had any problems, we looked at them and figured out what we needed to do better next time.

As a long time member and judging coordinator, I made a point of talking to the people we hadn't seen before and making them welcome to be there. Sometimes, that was the only time we saw them, so it was important to at least talk to them and ask them about their car and talk about it in a supportive manner -- plus invite them to become a member of our expanding and energetic group.

We considered and advertised our group as "an enthusiast organization" rather than an "owner's club" . . . with the word "team" in our title. You didn't have to own a car by the manufacturer, just be an enthusiast of the manufacturer (although those that didn't have a car found one, usually, and had even more fun as they found out why we were having so much fun with them).

Although the club had diverse interests, we learned much from each other and our various activities at various levels of show and race and general enjoyment of the vehicles. Over time, you discovered who had the "real knowledge" in particular areas and who thought they did. Many of us attended national level shows and swap meets together, helping each other find what they might need for their car(s)--THOSE hunting expeditions were extremely fun and prosperous for us all (pictures to prove it, too, although some might not want to admit it). We had lots of great times together as we grew the club and its accomplishments (and the accomplishments of its members!). Although I haven't been highly active in that club for about 7 years now, I am still an original and continuing member since the first organizational meeting 20+ years ago.

Unfortunately, I've seen the scenario Chris mentions play out several times over the years of club activities and cruise events. Although we are all individuals, we also need to be cognizant of how "outsiders" might perceive us as car club members (and the related expectations mentioned above). In the earlier years of the other club I'm in, a similar club existed over the river in Dallas (pre-dating us by a year or so). Many who wanted to be a member of that club were faced with "We want to see your 'club car'", "You'll have to be sponsored by an existing member . . . ", and other things many weren't prepared for. The other group was said to be highly "cliqueish", too. When we just said "We're an enthusiast organization. Your first year's dues are $_____ and you get a discount at our sponsoring dealership's parts department . . ." that pretty much cinched the deal for us. After that, they were a part of our club family and we all had fun . . . even going to the Dallas group's shows (which they appreciated our supporting them).

An unfortunate reality is that all clubs are not the same. I'm sure that Chris might feel more "at home" in a Reatta group than in a general BCA group (at the local level, too) as he might have more in common with other Reatta owners and their related demographics. Not to forget that a local BCA chapter might also fit his needs, too. Although the Reattas were a pretty much hand-built automobile, they used many parts of the similar Rivieras and other Buick powertrain items (plus some highly unique Reatta-only items!). By the same token, he might also feel "at home" with a mixed-make vehicle group which might be more oriented toward cars you don't see every day. Unfortunately, it's a "cut and try" situation that can take some time. Still, I would HOPE that ANY local BCA chapter would be supportive of a Reatta owner in their quest to maintain and restore (or even modify) their vehicle as it IS a BUICK, above all (even if it might be 40 years too new for some of the members to get excited about).

I also realize that the BCA is not the "only game in town" with respect to Buick enthusiasts (as a marque), although some don't seem to understand this situation. Due to some more specialized interests over the years, other groups have formed to support the activities of particular demograpics of Buick owners and the cars they are enthusiastic about (even if the vehicles are younger than 12 years old or might lay rubber from the "wrong end of the car"!!!).

By observation, some existing BCA members/operatives might not want the BCA to expand to these newer vehicles and their owners, but for the BCA to remain active and viable into the future (after some of us might not be around or active any more), as a group the BCA MUST adapt and recognize that newer vehicles will become eligable for the 400 Point Judging each year (even if they are 25 years old at that time!). Still, we can't let the earlier Buicks be forgotten as the newer ones come online in the future.

Just some thoughts and observations,

NTX5467

[serb]

JD states.....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Also I have found that the more you post here then the more comfortable the entire hobby becomes. A long time ago I didn't post comments because I was actually scared that I would post something stupid and people would verbally attack me. <span style="color: #FF0000">Now look, I post stupid stuff all the time and hardly anyone notices... </div></div></span>

Everybody notices but are being polite. Ha,ha.

stevo

[Matt Harwood]

If you're ever considering dropping out of the club because you're not getting anything out of it, just have a look at the posts above by simplyconnected, Bill and Stevo directed towards my project and my frustration with it.

That kind of friendship, inspiration and comraderie is worth far, far more than the cost of dues to a club. I can almost guarantee that if these guys lived in my neighborhood, they'd be in my garage helping any chance they got, and I'd happily do the same for any of them. I'd pay 10x as much for that kind of networking and dedication. Fortunately, this kind of help is almost always free, but I wouldn't know any of these people without the club. Completely worth it any day of the week.

This is what being here is all about, and a club only enhances it. You guys totally rock.

[HurstGN]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: serb</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

JD states.....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Also I have found that the more you post here then the more comfortable the entire hobby becomes. A long time ago I didn't post comments because I was actually scared that I would post something stupid and people would verbally attack me. <span style="color: #FF0000">Now look, I post stupid stuff all the time and hardly anyone notices... </div></div></span>

Everybody notices but are being polite. Ha,ha.

stevo </div></div>

OK, since nobody is stepping up to the plate, I will.

Did you see that <span style="font-weight: bold"> stupid post </span> JD made? Geez, what was he thinking with that one?

There, do you feel better now JD? Wouldn't want you to feel left out and leave us now.

[JohnD1956]

I guess I should have worded my post a bit different, but

HEY, what are we if afraid to laugh at ourselves? For the record, I have no plans to go anywhere, except Flint, for now, and maybe a few other Chapter's shows too. I will do my part to welcome every new member I can whilst I'm there too.

[imported_buick5563]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JohnD1956</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I guess I should have worded my post a bit different, but

HEY, what are we if afraid to laugh at ourselves? For the record, I have no plans to go anywhere, except Flint, for now, and maybe a few other Chapter's shows too. I will do my part to welcome every new member I can whilst I'm there too.

</div></div>

How bad can your posts be JD, you successfully used the word "whilst".

(one of my favorites BTW).

I totally agree (again) with Matt. The camaraderie among (at least) this group of guys is indeed priceless. Yeah, there is razzing. Yeah, there are political arguments. Yeah, there are Stevo's posts. It is a great place to hang out with people you have never even met.

I admit I have two earlier cars (than a Reatta) that "old-timers" and general car show goers might appreciate, but the stories above about getting snubbed for whatever reason, kinda bum me out. I don't care if it's a Reatta or a Miata, if it's a nice car and well taken care of, I will appreciate it.

Cheers,

Mike

[Guest BJM]

I'm no longer a BCA member.

I joined in 1993 in Houston, Texas. I had a windfall tax return and "blew it" on a too-far-gone 1956 Buick Special. I started doing the research. There was a BCA application in the glove box of this $750 (overpaid) car.

I joined the BCA, joined the Houston chapter of the BCA and became friends with Cecil Miles (sp). Once we went over to his house for a monthly meeting and I felt welcomed but because I was not part of the inner circle, I also felt like an outsider.

I was hooked though and kept my membership up. From 1993 to present I've owned over 35 cars, most of them Buicks, Olds and Cadillacs.

I always joined a club with the goal of having friends interested in the same hobby I was. I wanted to go over to a buddies house once or twice a week to help them on their project and then go to the show-n-shine or drivein on the weekend. In the winter, more so up here in Iowa, I wanted to bring a 12 pack over and work int he cozy garage on projects with club friends.

I don't go to bars or seek that kind of entertainment so a Saturday in January spent in the garage is golden to me, I just wished it was with club friends and not by myself.

That comeraderie never developed. So I have less interest in being active in the BCA or any club. I think some folks join the club to have a conduit for showing their hard earned restoration at the "Super Bowl" of Buicks - a BCA National. Others just want parts and contacts information.

I have been to three Nationals and one regional. The Nationals were St Louis 1998, Plano 2004(?) and Rochester 2006.

I enjoyed the shows - alone. I walked around and engaged some owners in conversation. I was just never in the right place at the right time to greet common forum members like Derek or Bill. I did reacquint with Cecil in Plano and that was special. But nothing is lasting.

It felt kind of weird to walk around the Rochester meet and not know anybody or have those deep friendships you hear about. I judged Rivieras in Rochester and enjoyed that fellowship, but fellowship is not the same. I judged Stevo's car but never met him. I saw Derek stand up in the back of the BOD meeting, but never met him.

I'm in Madrid, Iowa and any time anybody wants to come over and help me restore my 49 Roadmaster, you are more then wlecome, I'll buy the beer, we'll cook some hamburgers and hot dogs and enjoy a great pastime. And I would love to do the same for anybody else within 2 hours drive of me. But I suspect the 49 will be restored without ever having another BCA member assist.

I always thought that if another club member had a say, 1957 Buick, then what an opportunity to "experience" a cross section of years of Buicks that you might not otherwise be able to afford.

In Rochester, as a member of the pre War division, we signed up for the supper I believe it was Friday evening. Beautiful weather and location. I told my wife that I would try and see if my daughter Abby and I could "hitch" a ride in an old Buick out to the supper club, while she followed behind in our modern car.

I was nervous because I did not know anybody. Everybody else in that caravan seemed to be fast buddies. I finally asked a lady getting into the back of a 1938 Buick if my daughter and I could ride out there in it.

She was totally shocked and put off, it's like she didn't know how to answer. She said no. We climbed into the Mazda and followed the caravan.

I will probably join the BCA when the Roadmaster is done, I want to have it judged, and I hope to own 2-3 restored Buicks as I get into retirement, but why join the BCA now? What does it have to offer me? What do I have to offer it?

My goal is to restore it the best I can, probably not to 400 point status and show it at a national meet and be totally unknown to anybody. (both the car and myself)

Sure, I can go to National meets in locations that I have not been to and enjoy the sights and walk around unnoticed, but without a car, you are not even a member, really. If I had the Roadmaster at a National meet, people would surely approach it (and by default-me) and that interaction would be great. But without a car, even with a badge, it's typically just too uncomfortbale to venture out of your comfort zone and engage an otherwise total stranger.

It's true you can walk among the members who have caravaned to a meet together for four days and nobody would even know you were there.

Does anybody remember me from the above meets? I remembered Hank Deglman, Pat Brooks, Bill Stoneberg, Roberta and many many others as surely as if they were standing next to me.

It's a curious topic that really hits home. I apologize if it seems I'm a stick in the mud. Unless you are active, you can't whine I guess, but that not why I have commented. I know it's partly my fault, but I just wonder if I could ever make the inroads necessary to get those special Buick friends that instinctively want to get greasy working on a car or caravan together. You folks that have those relationships, count your lucky stars.

[serb]

Hey Bryan,

Do you want me to send you an application for our chapter? I'm just pulling your leg. Hang in there. You were a member for a long time and for whatrever reason you just did not click with any new friends. For the record, I met JD in Batavia and Roberta in Batavia and have been friends ever since. We have seen each other and socialized a couple of times since then. I will be seeing JD this Saturday at the Central NY Chapter Show which is half way between him and me. I met Dandy Dave in Albany last year. I met Norb last summer at the Great Lakes Regional which was hosted by our chapter. All of the rest are friend that I have "met" through the forum. I call them friends because I feel as though we know each other....we have kidded around, laughed together, posted pictures of our families and even after all of that, I say we are friends. I do not know the proximity of any chapters near you but extend yourself just a little and you just never know.

Good luck.

stevo

[BUICK RACER]

Bryan, even if your Buick you don't think is show worthy at BCA Nstional Meet in Flint in July you are more than welxome to attend with your Buick, as it is a display only, non-judged Buick meet Flint eventg

[jscheib]

Jake,

Thanks for the detailed history. I am trying to recall you from the Pre-War event, as I too had to take a more modern ride, with Mac Blair's Suburban. There were four of us (flying in without cars), who own Pre-War cars, and I too thought we could hitch a ride (as was suggested I believe). However, four old guys without significant others may have been a problem. I too recoginized that riding along was not as easy as I expected.

However, as I recall, this dinner was before, or just the samed day, before the general (and first) Pre-War meeting, so a lot of people were just getting their feet wet in this group. I am not sure how thing went in Seattle.

I know it is tough coming to such an event by youself and I think we all need to recognize that. For us on the internet from time to time, we now have the annual forum breakfast, which should help some of these awkward situations. I hope you are considering Flint and might mmake some new friendships there easpecially with owners of cars of your era.

But you will have to be a BCA Member to partake of activities. I was a member from the time I started geting my funds together to restore my '32, and there are a number of rrather active members in our Yankee Chapter that do not have any cars currently running, but under restoration.

Good luck and we hope you might reconsider in time for Flint as that is not too far a trip for you in Iowa, and something not to be missed, especially if you did not make it in 2003.

John

[serb]

John,

If you are going to the Forum Breakfast, I do not have your reservation yet.

Stevo

[Guest simplyconnected]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Matt Harwood</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can almost guarantee that if these guys lived in my neighborhood, they'd be in my garage helping any chance they got, and I'd happily do the same for any of them. This is what being here is all about... </div></div>

Fellow restorer-friends are far & few between, but GREAT friends to have. I confess, I don't have a GM car, but many of my friends and family members do (I have a '55 Ford). My cousin has a pristine '57 BelAir, but my closest friend has a 1950 Olds (or Cadillac or Chevrolet, or whatever you call it, they're all the same to me). We swap days, and that works fantastically. I give him 8-hrs, then he reciprocates in kind. We cheer each other on and the 'humps' smooth right out. You're right Matt, if you were here, we would have three restorers swapping work. It's a hobby, so we keep our quality of work very professional but fun. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BJM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't go to bars or seek that kind of entertainment so a Saturday in January spent in the garage is golden to me, I just wished it was with club friends and not by myself. I suspect the 49 will be restored without ever having another BCA member assist.

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Do your restorer buddies have to belong to a Buick club, or any other club? I was reared with this notion; in order to have good friends you have to BE a good friend, first. Two ideas come to mind:

1. Many club members are not restorers. They are owners or enthusiasts.

2. I don't restore for recognition or money, I do it for my enjoyment and gratification. I don't have enough money to pay someone else for the work I do. That's why swapping works so well. Sure, there are things I can't do. We have a friend who will professionally shoot paint for $10/hr., in his booth. (He's a friend of a friend. See how it goes?)

I enjoy this forum for all the help you guys openly and freely offer. Your talents, resources, and advice promotes, 'restorers who help each other.' An elite class unto itself, who make more classic cars to be enjoyed by everyone. - Dave

[serb]

Dave,

I do not know where you were hiding before but I for one am glad you spend a lot of your time down here with us Buick Nuts. You are a wealth of information.

Thanks,

stevo

[Bill Stoneberg]

Jake,

I may not know your name if you came up to me but the face would be familiar. Nothing personal, thats the way I am, it takes me a few times before all the synapses in my brain clicks. Even then it may not matter as I called my boss the wrong name today.

I hope you are doing ok and none of the flooding, rain or tornados have affected you.

All I can say is to keep coming to the meets and introducing yourself to folks. Talk to them about your car and theirs. Come to the forum breakfast and say hi to this group of people. Go to the Heartland Regional and talk to people. They are close to you. Something will click.

I am lucky as I have close friends who enjoy the same activities near by. I wouldn't trade their friendships for anything.

[Guest imported_Thriller]

Man, miss an evening on the forums due to another time-consuming expensive hobby and watch the threads grow.

First of all, I can't honestly say I am guilty of the sort of behaviour experienced by the Reatta owner. I have received similar treatment in the past, but not recently...I'll get back to that. If I have, I apologize and I will try to keep this in mind and not act in a snobbish way in the future.

Forgive my ignorance if I make an error, but the Reatta was made for 4 years (88-91), in coupe / hardtop and convertible form in relatively low production numbers. As with everything, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I like Reattas, but don't spend a lot of time observing them - at a meet like Rochester, when there are quite a few that look very similar, but for colour and if you look closely, things like interiors and options, some folks aren't going to be enamoured with them. For me, with three children, a two-seater car isn't practical...I'd still like to have one and there's one for sale near me that I've been itching at...it just isn't pragmatic for me right now. I feel similarly about GNs - they are great cars, but to see 10 or 20 together just almost looks wrong somehow when the rest of a Buick show field has differing looks on an almost annual basis and a rainbow of colours. That's another car I'd love to own someday, but I won't be too excited to show it with 30 others.

One problem for Reatta owners may be the "lack" of coverage in the Bugle. The problem with addressing that is the relatively small production on these, if we have a "Reatta of the Month" in the Bugle, whether that will just be a positive for the Reatta owners, or will it be a turn-off for a significant number of others. As it is, Pete is trying to create some balance between pre-war and post-war. If you compound that with two editions being somewhat spoken for (modified and national meet editions), I can see where it would be hard to get something out of the Bugle if all you want / like is Reatta information. If that is the case, perhaps the Reatta Division needs to step up with a bigger, better, improved, whatever newsletter of their own. Since Reatta Division membership is contingent on BCA membership, that brings us back to the benefits of membership.

Any club will have cliques within. As large an organization as the BCA is, perhaps more so. The BDE is one, although I suspect less so being as they aren't restricted in years / models, the Modified Division, the Reatta Division, Pre-War Division (although covering almost 40 years makes this a pretty diverse group), etc. That goes without mentioning the ROA, or any of the others that I can't think of off the top of my head. Shoot, this forum is a clique...for those not connected or who aren't interested, they aren't a part of our little community here. I see it in other organizations I belong to as well. My local club welcomes essentially unmodified cars at least 25 years old, but there are a few detractors who still think something from the mid-70s is "too new" and that attitude turns some folks off.

I am really a shy introvert. However, once I get comfortable around a group of people, I'm fairly open and friendly. The Flint meet in 2003 was pretty overwhelming for me...I was working on my first project, made some bad choices, and didn't have a car at the meet. We had a variety of issues, but not knowing anyone just compounded things. However, that didn't stop me from having my Buick Binder in a backpack and talking with interested folks. Now, when I go to a National Meet, there are a significant number of folks (that I might see once a year) that I call friends. This forum has been a large part of getting to that point - it is pretty easy for me to type, and through that, you folks get to know me a little bit. Over time that bond grows.

I played that outcast role for a while...I first joined a car club in (I think) 1993. I first drove one of my old cars (in nice condition) in 2003. I even bought a couple of cars I probably shouldn't have in attempts to get a running "club car". I did drive the '52 to an event before then (2002 I think) - it attracted some attention in spite of rust and dull paint.

Anyway, time to gather some thoughts and wrap this up.

Bryan - thanks for mentioning me...I guess I've made enough of an impression on someone. My great-grandfather immigrated up to Saskatchewan from your general neck of the woods - after he passed away, my father was one of the ones who brought his body back to Humphrey, Nebraska where he is buried. I have some distant kin that I've met in Sioux City.

Roberta - congrats on the anniversary. I would have thought Michigan / US would have had child labour laws 29 years ago though

Matt - you know I owe you big time...I'm keeping that somewhat quiet for the moment though.

I don't want to turn this into a love-in, but I enjoy these forums, even some of the disagreements. I can't begin to count the number of folks I've gotten advice, help, parts, or laughs from over the years.

I guess I'll keep my BCA membership after all....

[Guest 70 Electra]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Barney Eaton</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Attached is a post from the Reatta discussion. BCA members need to be aware of what others "feel" about their presents at shows.

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I am not renewing my membership. It was the first car club I ever joined. I've been a car guy forever. To be honest with you, it never did much for me. It was a bargain for sure. I get more out advice out of this forum than the BCA/Reatta Div could ever dream of. I know the officers all work hard and do what they can. I can certainly appreciate that. The lone BCA event I attended was Rochester. The cars were great. I went away feeling like an outsider. "What do you drive?" "1988 Reatta" "Hey, Karl, How's the Roadmaster? I'll be right over. Nice meeting you, umm Chris, right?." I never got to realize the benefits of membership. So, Adios BCA. Thanks for the ride. I'll be enjoying my lifetime membership in the " one Wolf" car club. </div></div>

I dunno, Barney. At the risk of appearing insensitive, I think the fella might need to get thicker skin. I'll bet the guys with 73-4 Apollos REALLY feel like red-headed step children!!

That doesn't mean anyone should be rude to another member, but I'm not sure this was the issue here. Sounds like the traditional BCA crowd was simply not warming up to this gentleman's Reatta.

There are pros and cons to a general marque club like BCA. One characteristic that might appear to be a disadvantage to some folks, is that the BCA recognizes ALL Buicks. A 1983 A-body FWD Century is still a Buick, but how much interest will it generate at a meet? A bit, but not a lot. I think my 70 Electra's pretty cool, but I don't expect the same amount of interest as a 53 Skylark might garner. That's just reality. Similarly, a 1992 Roadmaster wagon just isn't interesting to as large an audience as a 57 Caballero. And part of it is the (relatively) recent age of the car.

When I attended the 2003 Nats in Flint, I was astonished by the huge number of Reattas on display. While these cars don't "float MY boat" I was in awe of the wonderful community they've created with a late model vehicle. Hell, they've even got their own section on this forum! I don't see a special forum for anything else other than Rivieras!

So, just because a Reatta didn't blow up the skirt of some BCA members, a fellow feels left out. Well, as one that has spent a lifetime collecting non-mainstream cars, I can say I've been there, done that, and I've got the tee shirt!

The beauty of the BCA is that it is for ALL Buicks. But that doesn't mean that all members will get excited about all Buicks, nor should they pretend to be enthusiastic about one that means nothing to them. (But they should be respectful.) If someone expects all club members to get excited about their car, they should join a club that caters exclusively to that subset of the marque (A mutual admiration society) .

Hope this doesn't come across as offensive. It is, like all the other postings, just one man's opinion.

[lrlforfun]

OK Jake: There is NO ONE and I guarantee, NO ONE like me in the BCA. I am not currently a member and for now that's fine. I have at present, 79 old Buicks. Most people have a judgement about me........most not too kind.

At a major West Coast swap meet I was checking out a Buick of which I have many many examples of. A guy next to me says to his friend, " I heard of a guy who has 121 of these. What kind of f*&%^$'n idiot would have all that?', not knowing it was me (standing right there next to him) he was talking about! I just wakled away and realized that this man and myself were definately going to hook up.

The majority of car club people are old guys showing off their stuff with Mama taggin' along. Expect anything. Mitch

[Dandy Dave]

Speaking of stupid, maybe we should take a lesson from our old buddy Forest Gump. He sure had a lot of followers as he was just out for a jog across the country and didn't have a lot to say about it!

Stupid is as stupid does!

I have been guilty of passing by newer cars partly because of my own ignorance of production numbers and limited accessories offered. This forum, and the BCA, has opened a whole new world on these cars and there place in history and it only makes me appeciate those models more.

Of course there seems to be an unwritten rule of class amoung the people and what you drive to a car show. The guy with the 1930 Rolls would not be seen with the guy with the 1965 VW..... Also, I drive a 1915 Buick therefore I must be a snob???....A lot of folks that would not talk to me years back are talking to me now because of what I drive??? And some are not talking to me because of what I drive??? ( I got rid of that lowly Model T with the home built body.)

Back to Forest Gump, "Stupid is as stupid does"

Just remember, If we meet at a show, I love you guys and whatever you drive. Step right up, I won't snub you unless I have a mouthful of something and can't talk. Dandy Dave!

[Guest edalfa]

I guess it all depends what you want to get from a car show and what you go to see. When my dad was alive, he'd make a beeline for the Model A's because that is what he enjoyed. I tended towards the muscle cars.

When I go to a show now and someone wants to talk about my 40, I'm happy to talk to them but I really just want to see the other cars. I'm not inclined to make small talk with other people there unless I run into a friend. Usually, I'll make a few passes of the show field and then I will leave. I've done what I came for, that is, see the other cars.

Ed

[Aaron65]

Ed...that's me to a tee. I'm never going to win any awards, and I don't care to either. I just LOVE seeing all the cars...I love EVERYTHING...GMs, Fords, Chryslers, Independents, foreign makes...it never gets old. So I guess I'm not there to mingle...I start looking around, and when I'm done, I pack up the car and leave. For many, it is about the "camaraderie," but I've always been about the machines. Maybe I AM weird.

[The Old Guy]

I have been to all the national meets since 1971, and as they get bigger, I see many changes. I have watched the emergence of the "muscle cars" from being ridiculed to a place of prominence, and being an old "hot rodder' have seen the "modified division" go from total derision to front row seating.

There is a faction in the organization that hates anything that is not factory original, ( which is why I put dual exhaust on my 40 )and there are very short sighted members that can't see the hand writing on the wall! Our membership is getting older, and instead of turning up your nose at something that you don't particularly care for, check the workmanship and talk to the owner.

I joined the BCA in 1969 because my sons wanted to take my 29 F**d roadster pickup to school and it was powered by a 427 Ch**vy. I bought a 32 90 series Buick because it was the only thing around big enough to haul the family ( Ihave 6 kids)

Through the years I have seen many changes, but the BCA members have always remained the same. Some are very outgoing ,and some are border line recluses. You get out of the organization wehat you put in!! The BCA board does a GREAT job , and in this litigation happy society, works hard for this group.

The Reatta group has made great strides in gaining recognition , and on our BDE tours are showing up more and more. We kid the Reatta owners unmercifully, and they retort by saying " I got 30+ MPG coming to this meet, what did that "sled of yours get?"

Most of the Reatta owners are in the younger group (when I was born , the Dead sea wasn't even sick) and I think that once we have them as members , you will find that they are looking at the other Buicks, and will some day acquire an older one.

Many of the forum members have stepped up and written words of encouragement, and I hope you listen to what they said. The BCA has the greatest people in the world, and I have noticed through the tears that they cover a complete spectrum of occupations. It doesn't matter whether you are The CEO of a big company, or the janitor, you have an all abiding love for your Buick ,and that is the common denominator that binds us together. Hang in there

[serb]

Joe,

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">you will find that they are looking at the other Buicks, and will some day acquire an older one.

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I think Bernice has an older one....no need to aquire one. Ha, Ha.

See you in Flint.

Stevo

[Mark Shaw]

Right on Joe!

You wrote:

"Most of the Reatta owners are in the younger group,.. and I think that once we have them as members, you will find that they are looking at the other Buicks, and will some day acquire an older one."

You put your finger on it Joe! In both the BCA and HCCA clubs I have seen and heard lots of comments from board members and others about how we are going to attract younger members. I can't tell you how many times I have talked to guys and gals with newer cars that really want an older (prewar) car someday.

We must all keep in mind that most younger car enthusiasts are probably still raising families and may not yet have as much disposable income to buy cars that they cannot use as everyday drivers.

Take them for a ride and talk to them about your car, encourage them, so they can learn how much fun it is to own, drive, and enjoy these cars....

Someday, you may be selling one of your cars to one of them....

[Guest imported_Thriller]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Old Guy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">(when I was born , the Dead sea wasn't even sick) </div></div>

Oh man that's a good one...I don't think I've heard that one before. By the same token, you aren't that old...as a geriatrician, Suzanne basically doesn't see anyone under 75, and relatively rarely under 80 or so.

[The Old Guy]

Derek

Actually when I was born, General Motors was still a Private (possibly a PFC) and I am 75 so Suzanne may have a new patient.

[Reatta Man]

This series of posts reminds me of a story I heard a long time ago:

An old man is sitting on his front porch, and a couple drive up and ask him, "We're moving here from out of town; what are the people like here?" He replied, what were they like in the town you just left? They said they were bad, grumpy, hard to get along with. He replied, they're just like that here, too.

A little while later, another car pulled up, another family, same question--what are people like here? He gave the same question as his repsonse. They said, the people were great, warm, friendly, would do anything for you. He said......you guessed it....they are just like that here!

The bottom line is (we used to call the bottom line the moral of the story, but that isn't PC now) you get out of your town, job, church, home and club exactly what you put into it and what you are trying to get out of it.

Today's application is this, I think; the club will be whatever we make out of it. If enough people don't work, and put something into it, it will soon be a club of quitters and no one is willing to sacrifice.

Fortunately, the club seems to draw out some of the best people with the best agenda among any hobby or old car club.

One more point; why should ANY Buick owner be surprised if someone doesn't immediately know what our car is; a Buick is NOT a Chevy. We have always been a smaller crowd compared to the big-selling brands!

Now, if you want to see a club that thinks it 'don't get no respect' then go talk to the AMC guys......