American Hotrod

[Steve_Mack_CT]

My "A" is the first car I ever had any work done on by a restoration shop. I knew I found the right guy when early in the conversation he says "Just so you know, this will take a good while, it will be done when it is done". He went on to discuss levels of work, etc.

Not exciting TV, though...

[ex98thdrill]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's not real, guys. It's all make beleive. It's entertainment (although not for me). I've seen the guy from OCC say "this stuff is going to the chromer today, we need it back by tomorrow afternoon" HUH?.....GET REAL</div></div>

I know what you're saying, and if you ever saw the bikes built by Orange County Choppers, it is real. They may have sent their chrome out on one day and gotten it back the next, and it shows. They may get their chrome back quick, and what they get back is junk.

[ex98thdrill]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I worked is a restoration shop for 14 years far more stuff went out the door with a "driver" restoration than a "show" quality finish. You can guess the owner told everyone at a show what he spent on the work but NEVER told anyone he asked for and got a driver finish. Used to drive me nuts cutting corners.</div></div>

That's why if you're going to do a restoration job, you either do the entire job, or you don't do any of it. The bottom line is if the owner wants to cut corners, you send the car out the door. It's the guys who want to cut corners are the same ones who will want to point out to everyone what didn't get done on the car.

I believe Rick Hoover also does things the same way... To the best of my knowledge, anyone who has ever had their car bult by Rick has never not liked what they got back from him. If they haven't, I've never heard about it.

[Bhigdog]

Yup, even the bikes and cars are just "props".....Bob

[West Peterson]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1937hd45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If someone plans a TV "Restoration Shop" series the toughest thing ahead of them is the DEGREE OF FINISH. Just because you take money from someone to work on their car doesn't mean it is restored. I worked is a restoration shop for 14 years far more stuff went out the door with a "driver" restoration than a "show" quality finish. You can guess the owner told everyone at a show what he spent on the work but NEVER told anyone he asked for and got a driver finish. Used to drive me nuts cutting corners. </div></div>

As Pat may have inferred, many of the good shops do not do "partial restorations," because the owner will say the car was restored by "so-and-so." The onlooker will look at the "partial restoration" and decide right then and there that when he gets his car restored, it will definately NOT be at the same shop.

A restorer's work is his advertisement. If his "ad" looks bad, he loses business.

[ex98thdrill]

You're right West. One thing that should also be noted is that most of the good shops have enough business to where if someone wants to cut corners on their vehicle, they can send the car back out the door. Usually once the better shops send anything out the door, they usually have 10 more guys in line waiting to have their car restored the right way.

A couple of weeks ago we were at a local show with our woodie, pickup and fire truck. The president of one of the local fire departments (Pittsford) approached me about restoring their 1924 American LaFrance pumper. I told them after doing our fire truck that if they didn't plan on spending at least $100,000 to restore their truck to not bother starting the restoration. Another local fire department (East Avon) decided to restore their antique fire truck themselves and the truck has been apart almost 30 years.

[jeff_a]

Regarding Bhigdogs comments about some Reality Shows not being real. One of the funniest things I've ever read, especially the part about swearing at the Chrome-plater to get them to hurry up! Remember that it's a Show and they're

not Real -- they're thespians.

[Guest BruceW]

I remember before the "reality" craze that there used to be some pretty good shows on television pertaining to cars.

The show would be something like:

"Today we are going to show you how to install the interior kit in our 69 Camaro, and later we will continue the tear down of the rear end and install the high speed ring and pinion in the Ford pickup."

They weren't restoration shows but they were a lot more interesting and provided much more useful than the reality junk on now.

I'd love to see a good show on automobile restoration. It wouldn't necessarily need to cover the entire job in detail but feature the more interesting and informational portions. It might switch back and forth among several restoration projects.

I can almost hear it know....

"Welcome to Hoover's Garage". I am your host Rick Hoover, and today we are going to remove and clean out the gas tank on the 1932 Packard.. and later we will check on the boys as they continue to prep the body of the 1954 Chrylser for paint. Also later on, Steve Moskowitz will join us as we show you video highlights of the AACA Founders Tour held a few weeks ago."

Just a thought....

[1937hd45]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1937hd45</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jay Wolf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What a mess... Check this out

http://www.nsra.org.uk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=41863 </div></div>

You can bet the farm that won't make the TV show. </div></div>

OK,OK, I was wrong Tonights show covered the Bonneville trip and licensing runs, and I have to admit it was the finest addition of American Hot Rod to date! I'd like to know if the same crew and director was used for this episode as in all the others? This was more like a History Channel documentary than the standard drama all the other shows feature. Thery actually gave you a good overall picture of what Speed Week is all about.It was a GREAT show, until they panned to the stuck motorhome and three stuck wreckers.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Does anyone know if "Boyd's" appearance is something the region is sponsoring? If so, why??

[Bill Stoneberg]

"It was a GREAT show, until they panned to the stuck motorhome and three stuck wreckers. "

I actually thought that was the funniest part of the show.

I really enjoyed the scenes of Bonneville and Speed Week. I wished they would have showed some more car.

338 MPH on a motorcycle, thats crazy.

[FomocoService]

I'm impressed they showed the stuck motor home & wreckers and the problems with the 'race car'

Might've been Henry Ford getting even with them for cutting up one of his Beloved Model T's..........

[1937hd45]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Steve_Mack_CT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Does anyone know if "Boyd's" appearance is something the region is sponsoring? If so, why?? </div></div>

My first guess would be a Museum fund raiser, or a write off on the pink Caddy he built.

[Guest boettger]

I agree that last evenings show was one of the best! Maybe it had to do with the fact that Wayne was not at Bonneville! All his negative energy was missing and was quite refreshing!

[Steve Moskowitz]

Good grief NO, NO, NO! No one is sponsoring him, we just heard he planned to attend and probably will go to one or more of the auctions!

[ex98thdrill]

It's probably cheaper for him to come east, buy some cars, and ship them back to California than it is to go to Barrett-Jackson and pay big money.

Who knows, the man might totally surprise us all. If he's never been to Hershey, you know he'll be in for a big surprise.

I'm just curious to see what the guy is like and how he acts when the TV cameras go off. But on the same token, I've always wondered if Leno is the same person off camera too.

[Twitch]

Jay for the most part this is TV stuff on a miniscule scale. It gets a lot of press on this forum mostly. A lot of people believe that there are legions of dumb people who buy $15-20,000 restored Model As and Ts to build hot rods.

This may have happened a long time ago but anyone with sense has no intention of building a car on an 80 year old chassis and expect it to take 400 HP. No one is going to try to use 80 year old mechanical brakes to stop it or similar era suspension to ride in it.

No one is going to invest that kind of dough and come away with only a basic body that is useable in the end. There are all sorts of "rods" of various vintage that were modified when they were found junked in the 50s-70s. Back before the word "classic" rolled off everyones lips. Back when they were just "old cars."

The "bring 'em back to 100% showroom condition and don't drive 'em" crowd had their chance when they were $200. To look back in time as say they shoulda-woulda-coulda done something is just lame.

While I'd rather not see any restored cars dismantled now I will not cast aspersians at people in the past who didn't buy all the other cars to restore to 100% stock. They had their chance but didn't buy the cars to horde for later restoration so they shouldn't complain because rodders modified them 35-40 years ago.

For 15-20 Gs you can find a complete rolling chassis with IFS, disc brakes and a crate motor plus 'glass body parts that handles, drives and stops like a modern car instead of an 80 year old one!

If we are asked to believe that it is an ongoing practice for individuals to throw away $15-20k and a restored A or T resulting in almost no useable parts then we must agree that people are buying $60,000 examples of restored 57 Chevies to gut, strip and make gassers out of instead of either buying junkyard parts of a complete rolling chassis which also exists.

[nearchoclatetown]

I think you guys need to mortgage all your houses and pool your money and buy EVERY car at Hershey to save it from the likes of him. Good grief if you think he's the worst thing that ever happened to an old car you need to get out of the woods more often. How many millions of cars have been crushed in the name of clean air. And our government is paying for it with your tax dollars. He is nothing but a temporary amusement, just like Britney. If you quit paying attension to him he will go away!!

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> How many millions of cars have been crushed in the name of clean air. </div></div>

None that looked like this.

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> And our government is paying for it with your tax dollars. </div></div>

And by the way, this isn't true either. Oil companies and other gross polluters are almost universally the ones paying to crush "clunkers" as a means to buy pollution credits (generally grossly inflated based on outlandish assumptions re. "clunker" use patterns), instead of actually doing something about the air you breathe.

It's considered a "conservative" approach. Seriously.

[Jay Wolf]

I don't think there is an issue with model A or T's

But you take 40-41 Willys coupes, 39-40 Ford, 32-35 Fords.

I personally know guys who have bought older restoration cars for $15-20K and turned them on the $60-80K all metal street rods. I can think of 3 off the top of my head.

Those are the cars we are loosing.

When was the last time you seen a 40 Willys coupe at an AACA meet.

I not saying they should be stopped, it's their car they can do with it what ever they want.

As far as TV not much of an issue? It’s not the cars, the minds. I work and Vincennes University and have for 32 years our enrollment in different areas fluctuates with what is popular on TV. Right now with all the CSI show Law enforcement is very popular. Auto body and Custom painting picked up a few years ago when American Chopper became popular.

I just saying if we could get the 8th grade through high school students to watch a restoration show maybe they would be in a different mindset that the ones who watch Boyd.

[ex98thdrill]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I think you guys need to mortgage all your houses and pool your money and buy EVERY car at Hershey to save it from the likes of him</div></div>

You're right Doug. Now it gets to the point of which is worse, the hot rodders turning a car into a street rod, or the foreigners buying everything up and shipping it overseas??

In either case, the car is gone, so it comes to a point where the people pitching the arguement need to decide which battle they want to fight. The person who is selling the car gets their money, so what is there to complain about??

I don't dislike Boyd's work, I only dislike the attitude that he portrays.

Right now my dad and I are in the process of building another woodie wagon and turning it into a street rod. The plan is to paint it the same color as the woodie that we already have, and then use it to pull the trailer to haul the original to shows.

[nearchoclatetown]

I don't dislike Boyd's work, I only dislike the attitude that he portrays.

10-4 on that, I can't watch him because of the fake drama. A neighbor built a street rod 10 years ago from a car I begged him to leave stock. It has 30,000 miles on it since, that would have NEVER happened in stock form.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

I have never had much luck pleasing disgruntled employees with a pizza, but it seems to work for him everytime...

[Guest 70 Electra]

In a recent Hagerty insurance survey that I received, I was asked for my opinion of the "Greatest Single Threat" to the old car hobby.

While there are many (threats), the one that concerns me most is the wanton disregard for preservation of authenticity, as evidenced by popular shows like American Hot Rod, Overhaulin', Cut-Chop-Rebuild, etc. Guys like Coddington and Foose are high buck butchers of automobiles.

The practice seems to be rather hedonistic, and revolves around immediate gratification, eye-candy, and a total lack of respect for true restoration (which, in its strictest sense, is returning a car to its original state).

This twisted philosophy is growing, as evidenced by the prices commanded by both heavily and slightly (a popular euphamism is "restified") modified vehicles at large auctions. A 55 Nomad with crate motor, trick paint, and 20+ inch wheels, brings more than a stock one.

While everyone has the right to do as they please with their cars, I stand by my statement that this practice is one of the biggest threats to the future of the old car hobby.

[Amphicar BUYER]

I don't think the real threat is surmised by the customs themselves, I think it is the lazy builders who drive in a beautiful survivor in the shop and then proceede to throw away most of it and it's history in favor of saving some time for some TV show.

There is a place for the customs for sure. They should use aftermarket bodies or a car that is a parts or project car for the base instead of destroying 30, 40 90 years of patina and history of a survivor or resto.

Floyd Cotterpin is just a too highly paid former artist, who sold out his vocation and talents under the guise of enterainment. Chip foose is an artist and gentleman. He earns his respect instead of demanding it. You never see Boyd working under a car at 2AM. Nobody laughs much at Boyd's place, but Chip's guys are always having some fun.

[Studemax]

In Boyd's defense, he didn't sink the 3 wreckers in the salt - the drivers were pinheads and tore everything up.

All he did was drive beyond the cones to get around some water on the salt.

He has since given a grand to the "Salt the Salt" charity, and the Bureau of Land Management has fined the wreckers companies bigtime and forced them to pay for filling the gouge in the salt (not cheap).

When he attended the World Finals later in the year, he didn't bring his circus of shop apes, 2 helicopters, camera crews, etc.

He also drove smaller vehicles, and was very humble and polite compared to his SpeedWeek persona. No spins by Jo, either.

[Bill Stoneberg]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You're right Doug. Now it gets to the point of which is worse, the hot rodders turning a car into a street rod, or the foreigners buying everything up and shipping it overseas??</div></div>

And thats only the cars that survive. I watched a crusher pull 80 cars out of a yard the other day and load them up to go to China, to make whatever.

I think we have more concern about the high price of scrap then Boyd, et all. At least they are saving the cars.

[Guest BobOlds]

Boyd's a troll anyway. I'm not into restorations since the cars I start with are pretty sorry to begin with but even among "traditional" hot rodders he's not "appreciated".

[Restorer32]

A Philistine is someone who knows the price of everything but the value of nothing.

[Guest Hinckley]

There is a huge gulf between the street rodding of the 1950s and today. With the extensive availability of fiberglass and outright carcass cars there is no excuse for cutting or vandalizing complete, original automobiles.

I write book reviews for Cars & Parts and my automotive blog, route66chronicles. In one recent title the author made no bones about the need for deceipt if a rodder was buying a 100 point restoration for his project.

[Dave@Moon]

Hinkley,

That's some pretty disturbing stuff you've mentioned!

Is there some way you can post a link to this article and/or your review? I think a lot of us might be interested in how they're being deceived by buyers, and how well integrated into the car hobby it's become.

[michel88]

I have a very nice original '51 Ford woodie that has excellent wood and good original paint. It has always been garaged and babied. I am the second owner and my greatest fear is when I have to sell it will be "rodded".

[Twitch]

I recall a Boyd theme car they were doing once the "Junkyard Dog" car. It was a 56 Chevy that they were, of course, building their way- which is to say throwing out most of the rusty crap that had already rotted away and fabricating replacement parts.

They used a modern chassis, brakes and running gear so basically only the original body parts were Chevrolet. But after they cut out rust, patched and bondoed and sliced in new metal they couldn't get the original parts to fit again. They had to go back to the junkyard and find other trunk lids doors and such that had a better chance of mating with the body.

This should tell us something- that experienced professionals had a hell of a time producing a smooth, cohesive-looking body from decayed original parts. How good could any of YOU do? How would you like to have to spend for that if pros did it?

How easy would it have been to restore the Chevy to stock condition? More than it's worth? Of course. And looking at the finished car you undenyable see an outwardly stock 56 Chevy and not some Darryl Starbird custom.

I saw one show with that guy Barry in CA that builds cars explicitly for auctioning them at profit. The stuff he starts with is shockingly pure crap often from salvagers.

He bought a stock 57 Chevy cheap for like 5Gs from its owner. I'm thinking he really ripped the guy off! Blasphemy- he's going to turn it into a gaser. Well once they began disassembly damned near every sub assembly, panel and part hidden under paint was totally rotten. Bondo had flowed so heavily that seemed to be what was holding the crate together. He had to get a huge amount of duplicate parts at additional investment.

Yeah some of those "classics" look great till you start actually looking at them. Could some schmuck have kept it stock and just let it rust away some more till one day it collapsed on the garage floor? Of course.

On Foose's show they brought back to life a 57 Vette. It took over 400+ man hours of fiberglass work on the body alone to be usable. How much would that have cost the original owner? More than he could afford or he'd have probably opted to do it cheaper and have ended up with some lumpy turdwagon. The machine ended up 99% stock. The owner didn't have the money to restore the car. It had been sitting decaying for many years.

Like so many that sit out there people don't have the money to do them or do them right. The languish in dark holes in no win situatuions because the owners somehow think, what, they're going to win the lottery? They won't sell them. They'd rather allow them to degrade it seems.

The number of cars done on TV shows is what like 10 a season? How many average Monte Carlos, Mustangs, Camaros, Dodges, Impalas and Falcons have they done relative to truly rare stuff like a Mormon, a Dusenberg or a Delage?

How many people are spending $30K on a restored car, putting another $50K in it and "ruining" it? Is it the majority? No? Do any of you have budgets of that magnitude? I doubt it. I don't.

After a 1948 Big-3 car ended its usefull life in 1963 and began residing in a junkyard to decay we know that at any time closer to 1963 it would have been save-able...if someone wanted to save it.

Now after nearly 45 years decaying to dust a minority of people say it MUST be restored to its stock showroom condition. Of course they aren't spending their money and doing that as they could have at any time in the past 45 years. No, they are attempting to tell an actual purchaser how he should rebuild the car which was never rare, expensive or exotic. It's just a plain Fordchevdodge. How many more are there out there and who is going to restore them all? Frankly how many more modified or stock 1948 Fordchevdodges do we need anyhow. I see them at every car event!

If somebody pulls a junker out of a salvage yard today I say good luck on however you want to build it. They're up against it since the amount of money needed to restore or modify will likely end up being more than the value of the car in the foreseeable future.

If people are so worried about what a buyer mioght do to their car whay the hell are you selling it in the first place- especially to someone you don't know? Keep it till you die and let the kids do whatever they want with it. If you move in anything like a vintage car sub-culture you should know who keeps stockers and who has mod rods.

As for the Coddington outfit I wouldn't take a project there if I had beaucoup money. They have cars there from 2 seasons ago languishing while they throw together some crapwagon for a car show. Obviously they can't perform to schedule except when they're arguing like animals. I wouldn't want a vehicle worked on in those conditions. Bad mojo.

[ex98thdrill]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As for the Coddington outfit I wouldn't take a project there if I had beaucoup money. They have cars there from 2 seasons ago languishing while they throw together some crapwagon for a car show. Obviously they can't perform to schedule except when they're arguing like animals</div></div>Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending Boyd Coddington, and I never intend to. But after being down to Orange County Choppers and seeing their bikes, I have gained a lot of understanding for the show.

In the case of Orange County Choppers, back when they were on the Discovery Channel, the Discovery Channel paid Orange County Choppers to build a motorcycle. Once the bike gets built, the motorcycle belonged to the Teutels, but the Discovery Channel paid the Teutels to build the majority of the bikes. In simpler terms, the show is pretty much based on bikes that Discovery Channel hires the Teutels to build.

In the case of American Hot Rod, Boyd Coddington was on the Discovery Channel who like the Teutels, has changed to the The Learning Channel. I'm sure the story lines and ridiculous time schedules are probably set by the network as much or more than anything else.

Don't get me wrong, Boyd is still an arrogant jerk, and any of his staff who was any good walked out of his place a long time ago. But when it comes to cars in the shop that sit there, some of them were paid for by the network, and I'm sure others may be projects that belong to someone else.

In either case, like any reputable business person, <span style="font-weight: bold">MONEY TALKS</span> so they're going to put the priority with the customer who gives them the most business and pays the bills. WIth that in mind, I really don't blame him.

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am the second owner and my greatest fear is when I have to sell it will be "rodded". </div></div>

I'd suggest selling the car through the most appropriate club newsletter. You'll probably not get the best price for the car possible, but it's a lot less likely that you'll be caught up by someone surreptitiously trolling for rod material.

[1937hd45]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dave@Moon</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am the second owner and my greatest fear is when I have to sell it will be "rodded". </div></div>

I'd suggest selling the car through the most appropriate club newsletter. You'll probably not get the best price for the car possible, but it's a lot less likely that you'll be caught up by someone surreptitiously trolling for rod material. </div></div>

Wonderful advice, what Rodder would think of paying AACA dues and getting 6 issues of Antique Automobile.

[Guest ZondaC12]

YEA!!! We're all in this together! That's whats awesome about this kinda club we take care of our own!

[Guest speedydeedy]

HI everyone.I have been into old cars my whole life ,I was born in 1957 and in the early 60's my father owned an ESSO service station and wrecker service and wrecker yard with over 300 cars in it.This was my playground and you can imagine what cars were in there.I firmly believe that as someone said,no one can tell you what to do with your car. But being into both original and hot rods,I own an original 32 OLDS and a hot rod 31 A coupe,I would never chop a really good original when there are so many out there that are already chopped up or available reprodution.Also I'm with you on boyd compared to Chip Foose.Both are rich and talented but boyd let it go to his head and does whatever for the money with no consideration for the car are the people.I've never seen foose yell at his workers are treat them badly.