BRASS CARS at HERSHEY 2006

[1937hd45]

My issue of Antique Automobile arrived about a half hour ago. Steve Moskowitz has a request for Brass Car owners to display them at the Hershey Meet 2006 to help pump life into the AACA Museum future display. My 1912 Model T Ford hasn't been out of the garage in 8 years, and I see no reason to get involved at this late date to get it out. I don't know what would motavate other Brass Car owners to bring out their cars, but this reason isn't it for me.

[Shamas]

Actually the area just east of Hershey, North Jersey, South Eastern Pennsylvania, and Delaware has a large number of Brass Era enthusiasts. Most of the folks probably belong to AACA and HCCA, but an anouncement on the HCCA web site might be productive.

Mike Jones could probably muster enough cars to fill his needs rather quickly.

Jim Dix

[Steve Moskowitz]

Bob, the brass car exhibit and the plight of dwindling brass cars at AACA meets are exclusive to each other. I am positive we will have a great display at the museum which will be rather easy based upon the early look. However, whether it is Hershey, Montgomery, Rockford, etc. I think we are missing a very important part of our automotive history by not having more brass car presence. Rockford will unveil a new restoration of a 1912 Locomobile.

[1937hd45]

Steve, my fault for trying to be subtile. The LATE MODEL cars drove away the BRASS cars. Why bring a Brass car to an AACA meet if you still have the 25 year old tow vehicle you used 25 years ago. Power steering and air conditioning and you still get the same parking area and dash plaque. Sorry I scrapped my '76 Ford now.

[novaman]

so in other words to get brass era cars, you need to drive away members with later model cars. These in a lot of cases are younger members that can't afford to either buy a restored brass era car and/or do a full restoration on one. I was able to pick up a car that qualifies for HPOF for about 2,500 and can enjoy bringing it to a national meet.

Good thought there, drive away the youth of this organization to satisfy the brass era owners. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Steve, I don't know if you have any records to come up with this but what kind of car count do we have at Hershey meets in the past couple years compared to the early 70's when the classes only when up throught the 30's? And how does that compare with yearly national membership figures for the same time frames?

[ex98thdrill]

Steve, is there a way that AACA could either reduce or eliminate the registration fees on the brass cars as an incentive to bring them out to the meets??

David is right, a lot of the younger folks are the ones who have the later model cars, and they're the ones who are paying the entry fees, and paying dues. A lot of those owners are the ones who will still be around to pay dues over the next 30 years.

In all fairness to the people with the newer vehicles, many moons ago AACA adopted the policy where when a car became 25 years old that you could bring it to a meet and have it judged. Because of that foresight, it has brought us a fresh crop of cars every year, and basically that is what has kept the club alive and well. If we had stayed with cars only 1935 and older, AACA would've been dead or on the verge of being dead.

Maybe with the 25 year rule in mind, maybe another alternative to consider is the creation of a 25/75/100 rule.

After 25 years, the vehicle is allowed on the field.

After 75 years the vehicle pays 50% of all entry fees.

After 100 years, the vehicle never pays another entry fee again.

I can't see charging a reduced rate for a 1956 Ford Thunderbird, because there are a lot of 1956 cars to see. But the 1931 cars on the field aren't that plentifull, and if the 1906 cars are hardly ever seen. Like the current 25 year rule, the 25/75/100 could possibly give the club an influx of fresh cars every year. Eventually the owners '55 chevies would be able to bring their cars at a reduced rate.

There is nothing saying that this will change what's happening now, but at least we as a club would be making an effort to the members that we want those older cars out on the field. Basically most of the cars that are actively involved with the meets now wouldn't change, but there would be more incentives for people to bring the older stuff out.

....just a thought, now give me time to get on my flack jacket.

[Guest Hal Davis (MODEL A HAL)]

I'm not sure how the newer cars are driving away the older ones. I will admit, I've not shown my car at but one national meet, but I have attended several. The newer cars interst me very little. I typically don't pay them any attention, but I don't inderstand why their presence makes anyone with an older car not want to come.

[24T42]

Hal,

I do not think that the mere presence of the 'newer cars' has had a direct influence of not seeing the older cars on the show field. BUT it has has an indirect influence. In order to show a Brass car you have to really love them as just by the nature of the age of the car they are a lot more work. For one thing, you HAVE to trailer them to the start point of a show or tour. They are very rarely driven to the field. It is just physically more challenging to get the Brass cars out. Now, add to the mix the fact that our membership is basically made up of older gentleman and ladies. Because the club has the twenty-five rule, a lot of members find it easier to just in the newer car that can be driven, qualifies for AACA events, and has air conditioning, etc. A lot of time, I think it is just a comfort issue.

[novaman]

Got interputed by the phone last night and didn't get to complete all of my post which was going to change tangents anyways.

I grew up in AACA and have always liked old cars. About the time I got a drivers license I started judging which consumes a lot of the time on the show field. Along with that being webmaster for two regions and newsletter editor for one and taking photos, and infromation down for those jobs lets very little time. The other year I did not judge at Hershey. I ended up spending most of the day hanging around with some friends that have a brass era car. That was personally one of the best Hersheys I've been too. And since then I've developed an interest in them. Before that meet you couldn't have given me a brass car. Now, I'd get one if I had the place for it and the money. If it hadn't been for the brass cars and hanging out in those classes, I'd probably still walk right by them to the slightly newer stuff (40's).

If you don't love your brass cars enough to bring them out, that love for them will not be passed to the next generation of car owners. That doesn't only apply to the brass cars because if you don't love your '57 t-bird, '63 Chevy II , your '78 AMC Gremlin or whatever the car is, you'll never get the youth to love them and hopefully keep them in the orginal form instead of making a street rod out of it.

I like Pat's idea on entry fees. I know of several regions that there is no entry fee for the early/brass cars.

[1937hd45]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hal,

I do not think that the mere presence of the 'newer cars' has had a direct influence of not seeing the older cars on the show field. BUT it has has an indirect influence. In order to show a Brass car you have to really love them as just by the nature of the age of the car they are a lot more work. For one thing, you HAVE to trailer them to the start point of a show or tour. They are very rarely driven to the field. It is just physically more challenging to get the Brass cars out. Now, add to the mix the fact that our membership is basically made up of older gentleman and ladies. Because the club has the twenty-five rule, a lot of members find it easier to just in the newer car that can be driven, qualifies for AACA events, and has air conditioning, etc. A lot of time, I think it is just a comfort issue. </div></div>

Thank you Judy, The shorter version would be be why drag your trailer and brass car to and from the show if the same tow vehicle you used 25+ years ago will get you the same admission. The idea of asking the older AACA members to bail out the Museum is what I find bothersome, that was the resason for the request of brass cars at the 2006 event.

[Guest Hal Davis (MODEL A HAL)]

Thanks for the explaination! I can buy that! I thought you were saying that because all those young guys in their newer cars are coming, then I'm going to stay at home. I misunderstood. Sorry.

[Steve Moskowitz]

Bob, I apparently have a failure to communicate or you read my editorial way too fast (maybe my editorials are not worth reading in the first place!)! First of all, as I have stated several times now, my editorial was NOT about the museum display but that while helping the museum to consider cars for the display it reminded me of my sadness in not seeing brass cars at our MEETS.

I am not sure what you find "bothersome" since my editorial was not about the museum but AACA MEETS!! Secondly, I have volunteered to help the museum officials in finding and selecting the most comprehensible display of brass cars we can possibly get. I consider this an honor and a privilege to be involved in this display as brass cars are my first love and I firmly HOPE that we can interest others in these cars. If people do not get to experience these cars, we will never get new blood in the early car hobby.

"Bail out the Museum"...I find this an unfortunate choice of words because it is about supporting them and helping them grow into the museum most of us hope they become. The museum is working very hard to become better and their leadership is sincerely trying to bring state-of-the art museum programs to the "hill". Sadly, much of this takes money and that is very challenging. I make no apologies to anyone asking for people to support our museum, national or library.

Why do any of us bring our cars to shows? I am sure there are many reasons. I know some friends with brass cars go to shows to educate and to have people enjoy their cars. Others go for the awards or to be with friends. My last car CRANKED (no electric starter) and was one of only two known in the world and I felt it was an honor to go to shows. Yes, it was a great hassle, sometimes dangerous to my health (only got hit with the crank once, that was enough), expensive, etc. but it was worth doing. Showing brass cars has to be a "calling" in my opinion.

The object of my editorial was to get ideas to make things better...nothing more, nothing less.

[MCHinson]

Not quite Brass era, but here's my story... I am 45 years old. I have been an AACA member since 1996. I am on my 3rd Model A Ford. It is a 1929 Phaeton. It is the first car that I felt worthy of showing at a National meet. I just got my First Junior at Asheville (my first national show). I will probably (got a few details to work out in the next couple of days) register my Model A to compete for my Senior Award at Hershey. For the most part, AACA members like to restore the cars of their youth. That is why, as time passes, the bulk of the cars keep getting "newer". The brass car owners, in general, have been around a while and are getting older. It is totally natural that they have more limitations on their ability to get to shows. The important thing is to remember to keep getting young guys and gals involved and keep trying to interest people in antiques of ALL ages. The Brass cars are not going away. The next generation will still have people who inherit or buy them and keep showing them. At least in this area, The Model A's seem to be getting a little bit more popular than they were a couple of years ago. I suspect that the Brass Cars will soon follow that trend. There will always be people like me who like older cars than the "normal" cars of their youth. I don't have a Brass Car, but that doesn't mean that I wouldn't be interested if the opportunity to get one presented itself. While I like the idea about decreased fees for older cars (being the owner of a 77 year old car), I don't know if that would make a big difference or not. The registration fees are only a small part of the cost of going to a show. The bottom line is that the hobby includes all sorts of people with all sorts of cars. We need to encourage attendance at shows and other events however and whenever possible. The hobby is about showing your car(s). It is a fun and educational hobby. If someone doesn't enjoy showing their car(s) they should sell them to someone who will.

[1937hd45]

Gee, that was a near perfect reply until the last line. There are no rules about what you should or should not do with your car. Showing them and or driving them is up to the owner, it is his money to do with as he/she pleases.

[MCHinson]

OK, if you don't like the line:

"If someone doesn't enjoy showing their car(s) they should sell them to someone who will."

How about me trying to restate my intended thoughts in some different terms....

If someone just wants to leave their brass cars (or others) in the garage gathering dust or rusting, they should consider a way to get someone else involved in the hobby so that the car could continue to be part of the hobby. Maybe that means they should be showing it, maybe it means they should be driving it. Maybe they should be participating in local historical displays, maybe they should put it in a museum, maybe they should sell it to a younger hobbyist who will be active in the hobby with the car.

I was thinking of more than "just sell it", but was trying to keep from typing all night. I was simply trying to say that either the current owner, or some future owner, should get those brass cars back involved in the hobby. Hope that makes my intention clearer.

[West Peterson]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you don't love your brass cars enough to bring them out, that love for them will not be passed to the next generation of car owners. That doesn't only apply to the brass cars because if you don't love your '57 t-bird, '63 Chevy II , your '78 AMC Gremlin or whatever the car is, you'll never get the youth to love them and hopefully keep them in the orginal form instead of making a street rod out of it.</div></div>

Amen.

[Steve Moskowitz]

Ok everyone...SOMEONE, at least reads my column and gets motivated. Just got a call from an AACA member who is bringing <span style="font-weight: bold">eight, as in 8</span> brass era cars to Rockford, Illinois in a few weeks! See, once in awhile even a blind squirrel finds an acorn!! <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[ex98thdrill]

Guys, the orginal thread of this post is about bringing the brass cars out to meets. Let's not debate on who should own them, and how they should be owned, maintained, and/or driven.

I'd hate to see this thread get bumped into R&R, but rather than debate things in the direction that we're going, let's find ways of getting these people to bring these brass cars out. That is the basis of the original thread, and that's what we need to do.

I think we can all agree that we are all in this for fun and our love of the automobile. In our own ways we are all doing our part to preserve automotive history. Now with brass cars starting to fade, we need to start thinking of preserving the history of our club. My father and I love cars, so much to the point where we own over 20 of them, but regardless of what we bring on the field, the brass cars were the foundation in which AACA was formed. If it wasn't for the brass cars, the other stuff wouldn't have made it either.

I think if you look around the fields at the meets, most of what you see is Post War era cars going up through the muscle cars of the late 60's & 70's. The pre war cars are becoming more and more of a rarity, while the pre 1916 are almost entirely non existent. If you look around the meets, how many of the really older cars do you really see out there aside from Marshall VanWinkle's two Model T's??

My thoughts behind the 25/75/100 rule are to try to get the older cars out, but with the 75 year rule, keep the incentive for guys like Marshall to keep bringing their cars out. It seems like the cars that are between 25-60 years old are out there, but it seems like when they reach the 75 year point, they tend to start dropping off. I am thinking along the lines that if we can keep the 75+ year old cars out on the field, it will eventually trickle down. I don't see the act bankrupting the club, but along with the current 25 year rule it will change every year.

From the administration standpoint, you still charge the full price for the entry fee, and do either a partial or full refund when the vehicle shows up. My thoughts are the club will still get revenues through banquets, clothing, tours, etc. while also getting more of these cars out while gaining attention and recognition of the older cars.

Maybe I'm out in left field, so I'll get off of my soapbox and let this go to in whatever direction that it goes.

[1937hd45]

Pat, I don't thing FREE admission will do a thing as far ar increasing the amount of Brass Cars at meets. A local region allows FREE admission for 1927 and earlier cars, and may get 36 cars, VS 150-200 late models and Hot Rods. On the other hand the local Pre 1942 CUT OFF with NO modified cars gets 200+ cars. As long as the option for late model ease of driving cars is available that is what will turn out at meets. You need to know that at the age of 10 I started spending the day at the Pre War Meet and those cars are what will always be "Antiques" to me. If it was in a showroon in my lifetine it's an old used car. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[Jim Bollman]

Our region gives free admission to pre 1927, may be the same one 1937hd45 is talking about. I don't know the total numbers but I do know we went from 3 early classes that shared a row and didn't fill it to overflowing 2 rows, since we started letting the early cars in free. I am trying to get the show committee to let all pre 42 cars is free.

A local regional show will never draw what a specialty meet will but the increase in participation is noticeable to a lot of the people at the show. I don't think it is all money either, we are showing we want them. Add that the early cars are the ones that are less likely to come on a bad day and so the owner may not want to pre-register, it is just one less road block.

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Showing them and or driving them is up to the owner, it is his money to do with as he/she pleases.

</div></div>

Baloney.

If instead of [color:"red"]<span style="font-style: italic">"If someone doesn't enjoy showing their car(s) they should sell them to someone who will."</span> MCHinson had written instead [color:"blue"]<span style="font-style: italic">"If someone doesn't enjoy <span style="font-weight: bold">caring for</span> their car(s) they should sell them to someone who will."</span>, then who would reasonably object?

<img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

This hobby is a living entity, and it thrives only in the light. Hiding your car in the garage is bad for it and bad for the hobby, and is just as neglectful of the history we're supposed to be appreciating as would be the improper storage of historical documents or works of art. <span style="font-weight: bold">Two generations of treating the trophies better than the cars have brought us to where it's an open question whether <span style="font-style: italic">restored cars</span> will survive another generation or become street rods straight away, to say nothing of restorable cars.</span> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

And we're left here, trying to convince <span style="font-style: italic">our own members</span> whether it's still fun to drive/bring a brass car to a show? If someone reading this doesn't find that sad I feel sorry for them. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

[R W Burgess]

Way to much intensity in this thread guys! <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

The main point everyone should keep in mind here, is that we all love old cars, in our own way. As Bob, stated, "You own it, so do as you like!", but it would be better, in my mind, to keep asking the "non-displayer" about his car, or even help him display it, to keep the juices flowing.

I know in my case, the burden of a heavy work schedule keeps me off the show field, but just to have a person ask me,

Hey!, when are you bringing the Corvette back to a show?"....

will get me in gear. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

As Steve will tell all of you, if someone doesn't ask you to display your car, spectators might not ever see it.

Hope to see you guys, and all of the Brass cars at Hershey. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Wayne

[ex98thdrill]

I understand what you're saying. I realize that you're not going to solve the problem entirely, but my thoughts are that one is better than none, and one may be enough to generate more interest in those cars.

My thoughts are that maybe we need to look at reducing the rates for the older iron as an incentive for these people to bring them out. Not only for the spectators, but for the judges as well. I have talked to one brass car owner who has clearly stated that he wouldn't bring his car to a meet if you paid him to bring it. This person is an older person, he's been there done that, he's done an awfull lot of things for a lot of people, and I respect both him and his thoughts very much.

The bottom line is that as a group we need to come up with solutions to the problem, and try to get these cars back out. It is very easy to find the problem, but to find the solution is harder to do. I'm thinking of what I could see, but what is everyone else thinking??

[1937hd45]

Wayne, This reply is attached to your post but is directed at the "Self Anointed" in the antique hobby that think it is their duty to tell everyone what to do with their private property. If I deside to show my car fine, if I want to keep it in the garage for 20+ years what business is it of anyones? The money spent on yearly registrations, insurance, gas oil etc. is better spent on buying more cars and/or parts. MY MONEY guys! I spend it WY WAY! The attitude of The Anointed is why the Hot Rod part of the hobby has taken over. The "Welcome to AACA I'll show you what is wrong with your car, and tell you how to use it." is not a way to grow the membership. IMO <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[KRK Sr.]

As a Hershey Region Volunteer I have had the privilege to help park the Brass cars at Hershey over the years. Anyone who has been there from 8-10 am can tell you how difficult it is to get these cars in their parking places due to the crowds of people who descend on this row to see the rare, and sometime sole survivors of a marquee that show up each year. Everyone wants a photo, there is nowhere to move the crowds, and the owners are hoping to get in place asap so the temp gauges come down before anything is damaged. The $20 entrance fee is only a drop in the bucket to bring any trailered show car. Hotels that want 4 day minimums, fuel costs, and all the Chocolate that is required to get us through the week are all the real factors we should look at for the decline.

The HPOF class has brought out some great cars of the Brass era that are time capsules of early motoring. An unrestored car from this time period becomes one of the jewels of the row... Please bring out your cars. Karl

[Steve Moskowitz]

I have stayed out of the comments for awhile waiting to see what would transpire. My editorial has brought out some great phone calls and emails with <span style="font-weight: bold">great</span> suggestions on things we can do. Most of the owners, however, seem to find one area that concerns them...trailer parking and ease of getting on to the showfield. It is what I have known for years and does not come as a surprise! I remember one cold October morning trying to get a 1909 Locomobile and a 1904 Olds on the showfield at Hershey and one meet in particular that trailer parking was miles from the showfield and I had to drive my freshly restored 1908 in local rush hour traffic.

There are no real bad ideas and reduced or no fees along with other thoughts may eventually help. We will be working on these ideas as it is our goal to see these cars on our meets and tours.

[A by the sea]

I think you need to consider demographics and attitudes to understand the dynamics of which cars come out to shows.

I believe that most of the brass (or most early and interesting cars) cars are in the hands of the aging or the fairly wealthy. Either the car was bought cheap and restored and driven in the 60's to the early 80's while the owner was in his prime or the car was sold at premium price and sits in a collection. This is true of many cars up to the 30's(?). They were driven and shown by guys used to paying $3 to show their cars and could go have fun and talk old cars. Now many are older and getting out less and certainly not to shows that charge $20 to show (I am talking local shows) your car. Plus they probably feel out of place with the cars as new a 1981. It is rare to even see Model A's at a lot of shows today.

Interestingly, a show at a local car dealer that offers free admission and free food brings out some older cars you never see at the other local shows. The local clubs seem to be very money driven. I personally find it hard to pay $15 to $20 to bring my cars to a show and sit around. It is more difficult when I know the club is being paid to have the cars there.

To increase the interest in older cars the clubs need to look into what will entice the owners out. The more older interesting cars people are exposed to the more people that might take an interest and pursue the hobby with an older car. It might be smart for the local clubs to look at the older rosters and call up the people and ask why they no longer participate.

[R W Burgess]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold"> It might be smart for the local clubs to look at the older rosters and call up the people and ask why they no longer participate. </span> </div></div>

Exactly, and maybe see if your local group or club can help these older car owners get their cars to the show field. A great club project to bring a little satisfaction to older people who may feel left out in the "world speeding past them"!

Wayne

[1937hd45]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold"> It might be smart for the local clubs to look at the older rosters and call up the people and ask why they no longer participate. </span> </div></div>

Exactly, and maybe see if your local group or club can help these older car owners get their cars to the show field. A great club project to bring a little satisfaction to older people who may feel left out in the "world speeding past them"!

Wayne </div></div>

Wayne, Even if admission was free, LEGALLY driving that car from the owners home to the show field and home again will cost the owner $500.00 minumun if it was off the road for several years. More if he has to preforn repairs to the vehicle.

[ExYankee]

two things:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The $20 entrance fee is only a drop in the bucket to bring any trailered show car. Hotels that want 4 day minimums, fuel costs, and all the Chocolate that is required to get us through the week are all the real factors we should look at for the decline. </div></div> Unfortunely AACA and car clubs can really on control entry fee. As for the Chocolate, I can get through the week without it and go home an buy it cheaper. Choclate World is a tourist trap with tourist prices.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> They were driven and shown by guys used to paying $3 to show their cars and could go have fun and talk old cars. Now many are older and getting out less and certainly not to shows that charge $20 to show (I am talking local shows) your car. </div></div> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The local clubs seem to be very money driven. I personally find it hard to pay $15 to $20 to bring my cars to a show and sit around. </div></div>

If you attend a NC Region or NC Region chapter meet, Zooland Region Meet, Alamance Region Meet. You get most of your money back in the form of a trophy. The attitude around here seems that EVREYBODY has to take home a trophy. There is one vehicle that won a first prize at one of theese meets, went to Asheville and was the only vehicle going for a Jr. and got 2nd becuase he didn't have enough points, but yet these clubs "brag" they judge accroding to AACA standards. Most regions seem money hungry because of all the trophies (aveerage $15 ea.) but it is typically the fund raiser for them for the year. Most regions aren't in the position of owning and renting office property and having a steady income plus a huge Spring and Fall meet like Hornet's Nest Region.

[Restorer32]

Here's my humble opinion. We've shown several rare and fragile brass cars over the years and we always dread that drive from the trailer to the field. Let's face it, some brass cars are rare precisely because they were not very reliable when new. I think a change allowing very early cars to be trailered onto the showfield and driven just to their assigned space would go a long way toward bringing out more rare and one of a kind early vehicles. We are currently restoring a 1909 ONLY, 3 Liter, 1 cylinder car. Total production of 14. I swear, tyhe company's motto should have been "Not Much Of A Car". You can bet we'll be sweating bullets getting in onto the showfield the first time. There are many brass cars around that may have been excellent road cars at one time but can no longer make the run from the trailer parking area without risking breakdown. Same for their owners in many cases. Give the early stuff a break and they will come out. When the trailer parking area is several miles across town from the show it sometimes "ain't worth the hassle". Again, just my observation.

[R W Burgess]

That's a good point Jeff. I can't imagine having to drive a brass car that far to the show field.

Speaking of trailering, Bob, I was speaking of Regions or clubs actually helping trailer these antique cars that owners have lost interest in, or maybe thought it was too much trouble to go to another show. Depending on the distance, I was thinking more about a day trip. Even for me 4 hours south in Virginia, I could leave early in the morning, trailer a car to Hershey, show it, and still come home that afternoon, missing the awards dinner, of course. I consider this an excellent project for club particapation.

Wayne

[Restorer32]

In maybe '95 or so we brought a 1908 car to Hershey. Show morning we're up before daylight to get our 3 cars on to the field. The temperature was 27 degrees. Cranking the '08 was like pulling a canoe paddle thru molasses. Finally got it started. Only place we could find to park the trailer even remotely close to the field was down the hill behind the arena. Freshly restored car, 27 degrees, film of ice on the windshield (no kidding), cone clutch, uphill to the showfield...we made it but had the owner been alone he would have not had a chance to make it to the field.

[24T42]

Restorer32,

I know where you are coming from. The last time we had our 1911 Sears at a National show it was nothing but a headache.

We arrived at the show field and were directed to trailer parking. All the spaces by the entrance and registration were taken by the newer cars (50s up). We finally found a space at the back of the lot. After unloading and making our way through the maze of trailers (with coned off spaces behind them so no one would park behind them), we found out that we were at the bottom of a hill. Now believe me when I say that a chain driven 2-cylinder air cooled engine with 2 passengers will have a hard time pulling a hill. If it had not been for the generousity of 2 onlookers, we would still be trying to get up that hill today. Well we finally made it to the entrance and registration and were directed to our parking space, which was across the road (fortunately blocked off) in the farest lot from Registraion and down a hill. All the newer cars were up on flat ground right next to the entrance.

The biggest disappointment of the day was that eventhough there were 2 high-wheelers there, the chief judge decided not to hold the George M. Hughes high-wheeler performance event. If they had it, it would have the same two cars and owners that had participated twenty years eariler.

Eventhough we had a great day talking about the car and sharing it's history - that did it for us. The Sears has not been to a National show since then (and consequently does not have its Senior). We just take it to local historical events, parades, and museums. Well, maybe one day we will try again!

[K8096]

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This is why all these small local shows are trying to charge $15 - $20 entry fes. Personally, I never get my cars judged, so why should I have to pay the same entry fee as a judged car? I'm not taking home a trophy, so my car being there isn't costing them as much. Smaller local shows should charge $10 for non judged cars, and $20 - $25 for judged cars. I bet most people would just go into the non-judges class if this were the case & the people putting on the show would have a surpluss of trophies! I do feel "used" when I don't get my car judged, yet have to pay the same entry fee as someone who is getting judged so he can take home a trophy. Especially when there are only 3 or 4 cars in each class anyway, so basically everyone gets a trophy anyway.

The local AACA region is running a local show at the end of this month at Hale Farm & Village near Akron Ohio. I have a problem with how they have the classes set up. There are 17 judges classes which is fine. Then they have a class 18 for any car not being judged PLUS any car 1982 - 2006 upon acceptance by AACA Northern Charper. So, you're telling me if I bring a pre war car, and don't want it judged, I'm going to be parked along with 1990 Corvettes and a 2002 Viper? This is why I'll just go without a car and pay the $5 spectator entry fee, versus the $12 pre registration fee, or the $15 "day of show"

fee. I will give the local AACA Chapter credit for having class 17 as "original cars through 1981", but, do you think a guy with an original Model A wants to be parked with an original 1980 Ford Fairmont? This is what keeps the pre war cars at home in the garage.

[Steve Moskowitz]

Judy, now the region has special unloading for the early cars which has helped some at the fall meet. Trophy already engraved for the High Wheeler Event this year!

Bob, we both have a passion for pre-war cars but I really do not understand where you are coming from. I do not see a giant issue of expense for people to help local brass car owners get to a local show. Actually, think it a wonderful idea to help some of our older members.

Many of my friends have large brass car collections, they tour with some of them but others just find their way to a museum type setting. One of my favorite large collections virtually never shows and is out touring all the time.

Restorer, ain't it fun sweating in below zero trying to get a car started? You haven't lived until you've done that but after it is over you sure have some memories and laughs.

I am happy to see some of you have passion for discussing this subject but sometimes all we hear is what you don't like and nothing about how to make things better. I have had a few really excellent suggestions and I hope to work with our Directors to come up with a better plan at meets for the brass cars...until then keep the old car hobby alive and get the early iron out!

[Guest imported_Joe Kieliszek]

Thanks for the info on the Hale farm show; my dad and I will probably

drive down in his T or old Buick..

Joe <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[JO BO]

Hi Brass era car owners/lovers; I have had a passion for the very early iron (pre-1910) since I was knee high to a grasshopper's baby. When asked about what kind of cars I like, I always get strange looks or strong relies of "why in the world would you like something that old?" I'm in my forties now but simply fell in love with the 0s' era. I have never had a car from that era,not from lack of effort,it's just the more pressing need to satisfy my family's needs are more important than my personnal gratification. I'm still hopeful someday though , I'll get one to baby and nurse back to health. The car shows for a long time now have been dissapointing to me because of the foresaid reasons as there are rarely any cars from this era at them anymore. For the newer cars owners/spectators I appreciate your passion for the cars you have selected as your inhierted era.For those of you who share mine, please bring them back. Thanks to all who contribute. John

[MCHinson]

Being the Registration person for our local chapter show, I have access to some data that I find interesting. I apologize in advance if I am boring you to death with this!

Our Local Chapter show in 2005 included 100 cars. In 2006 we attracted 124 cars.

The interesting part is that ALL of the additional cars were pre-1968 cars, and most of the increase was in pre-war cars. In both years we had more Model A's than Mustangs.

Here is the breakdown from each year.

2005 ----- 2006

0------ 1 -1918 Dodge

3------ 4 -Model T's

12----- 17 -Model A's

9------ 15 -1932 to 1942

13----- 21 -1946 to 1956

35----- 38 -1957 to 1967

28----- 28 -1968 & up

I realize from reading all of the other responses that while we are still NOT attracting the Brass cars on the local level the way we want to, at least locally, the trend is improving. We try to help our older members when needed. This does help. We also provide free food for the show participants. I realize that is probably not a viable option for National events, but obviously things like closer trailer parking for older cars is the type of idea that will help. A lot of good ideas are being suggested. I have faith that Steve and the National Directors will be able to wade through it all and continue to improve the club. I am confident that we will figure it out!

[ExYankee]

The regions I mentioned use ALL the AACA classes, yes, all what is it something like 108 indivdual classes. At these meet you don't really need to be judged. Pay your entry fee, enter DPC (don't worry about car being spotless), collect trophy, go home. Basicly all you do is buy your trophy. This is why I feel having lots of classes where there are only one, two or three cars in most classes and giving multiple 1st,2nd,3rd awards at a local meet is a bit of a joke.