What were the last years of custom bodied / rebodied cars by the factory for brands of cars

[arcticbuicks]

I find some of  the custom bodied and rebodied cars that 'private 'people used to order and have the factory do for them interesting. Or even send a car back to the factory years later to be rebodied amazes me.It seems most companies did this service  from the earliest years....but up to what point did it end ?

Interested to hear some examples of manufacturers and when they ended the service.My guess would be mid to later 1930's for most and probably dwindled quickly after wood structure cars and coach builder companies starting to disappear .....except for the very expensive cars possibly  ?

What year would be the highest production of custom body cars ?

Was this a Fad of the times if people could afford it ?.......and the fad passed ?......or did the industry choose to end most of it ?

 

I'm trying to imagine a family in 1932 with a new Packard and the thinking......"honey ...im thinking to send the Packard back to the factory ......what do you think ...do want it back as a roadster or phaeton ?.....whats that you say son ?......a depot hack ?...no ! "

Would the Factory workers/designers with a beautiful car sent back for a rebody be insulted ........be like "oh god can you believe what this customer wants us to do to this thing !.......ruining this car !"

Did the factory have to approve the design or look as not to turn out something horrible ?........a lot of them are beautiful......but not all.....or was the dealership and factory avoided and a coach builder contacted with no involvement from the factory and/or dealership ?

 

If i told my local GM dealership tomorrow ......"I love the new cadillac and want to buy it......but can you please send it back to the factory and rebody it for me as Phaeton ?.......or maybe i will just bring it back next year to get done ".......just seems unimaginable in today's thinking

Edited September 12 by arcticbuicks (see edit history)

[prewarnut]

Well remember the car was not going back to the factory but to a coachbuilder. After sales it is possible that the customer would call up the local dealer first to then have them arrange a coachbuilder appointment, etc. Or, it might have been solely done through the dealer with brand-sponsored or in-house options. There was a thread here 2 years ago or more showing correspondence denoting some of how this occurred at initial sales on the Main Line from the Historical Society of PA I believe. At least it is searchable to learn more as I did at the time. Overall probably not a clear date as you're discussing dozens of coachbuilders but suffice to say by the '30s while cars were still coachbuilt swapping bodies became less often done, if not becoming impossible to do.

[alsancle]

Lincoln, Cadillac, Packard, Buick, were all offering “catalog customs” right up until World War II. After the war, Derham was still active updating cars. And probably a couple other coach builders that are not coming to mind. There was still a small, small market for updated cars, but very few bodies built from scratch in the United States. Europe was a different story.

Edited September 12 by alsancle (see edit history)

[TAKerry]

I think you may be putting a bit of a humorous spin on this, but I dont think that the cars were rebodied because the owner wanted a roadster instead of a sedan. My understanding (and I will readily admit I know little to almost nothing about these type of cars) is that 1. because of the initial cost of these autos it made more sense to put a new body on than to replace the entire car. The drive train was most likely still in very good condition, perhaps even very low mileage. This would have been done when the car was a few years old and the original body had gone out of fashion. Not necessarily because a different style was wanted. I think later in the life of a car when it was teetering on 'collector' status someone realized that yes a 2 door roadster was worth more than a sedan and had a body swapped at that point. 

You analogy to a modern scenario would not be buying a new sedan and then having the dealer make a convertible. It would be more like me taking my 2005 f150 back and having a 2024 f150 body placed on the chassis so I could have a new truck but heck, the motor still drives fine so lets keep that part.

[8E45E]

The huge issue these days is safety legislation.  It would probably cost more to correctly install required items like air bags, and calibrate them accordingly for the body style/inside space, and allow for crumple zones, etc., than the cost of the body itself.  And expect the Feds to get themselves involved in making 'necessary' changes to design to make it comply that will alter it significantly to the point of it not looking at all like the artist's renderings and sketches as originally conceived.   

 

To my knowledge, Rolls-Royce will still commission a hand-built car for buyers in markets where safety regulations are not so restrictive as they are here.  Rolls-Royce Coachbuild: The Ultimate Bespoke Experience (rollsroycebraman.com)

 

Craig

[Matt Harwood]

Ferrari, Rolls-Royce, and a few other niche makers still offer bespoke cars built to order if you have unlimited money and just don't know how to spend it all. As Craig points out, they're probably not legal in the US, but if you're a prince in Saudi-Arabia, who's going to tell you that you can't drive your car on public roads?

[hook]

I think you're all stuck in one type of custom bodied car and not thinking of a large market of custom bodied cars of today. What about custom limousines, hearses, bullet resisting armored cars, etc.? All of these are custom bodied and built by special companies. These companies buy a car and parts from the manufacture and alter or create as needed for their intended purpose. 

[John_S_in_Penna]

5 minutes ago, hook said:

What about custom limousines, hearses, bullet resisting armored cars, etc.? 

Excellent point, Hook.  And over the decades,

up to the present, "coachbuilders" have made

custom convertibles, coupes, etc. from production

bodies.  So, to a degree, the custom work has

never truly stopped.

[arcticbuicks]

I was thinking some of the more extreme examples i find amazing ,I maybe should have been more specific

Billy Van Horne bought J103 new in 1929. It was one of the very first Model Js ever built and, consequently, one of the most-photographed examples at the New York launch of the new Duesenberg. Originally it was fitted with a Holbrook seven-passenger limousine body.In 1935, Mr. Burke shipped the car back to Duesenberg, where he had the factory mount the present LeBaron Convertible Berline body.

 

 

 

Edited September 12 by arcticbuicks (see edit history)

[TAKerry]

11 minutes ago, arcticbuicks said:

I was thinking some of the more extreme examples i find amazing ,I maybe should have been more specific

Billy Van Horne bought J103 new in 1929. It was one of the very first Model Js ever built and, consequently, one of the most-photographed examples at the New York launch of the new Duesenberg. Originally it was fitted with a Holbrook seven-passenger limousine body.In 1935, Mr. Burke shipped the car back to Duesenberg, where he had the factory mount the present LeBaron Convertible Berline body.

 

 

 

My point exactly. He bought the car new in '29. By 1935 it was outdated, even more so for someone with the means to purchase a Duesenberg. So, lets get another up to date body put on. I would doubt the craftsmen at the 'body shop' had a whole of remorse, maybe a slight bit. But what they were doing was putting food on the table. Much the same as I have remodeled work that I installed 20 years ago. Sometimes its a bit disheartening to tear up something you know you built but when youre getting paid to do so..................

[arcticbuicks]

22 minutes ago, arcticbuicks said:

Maybe I am not putting a humorous spin on this ..........with this example ....Mr. Burke had this 7 passenger limo........and it was sent back to become a phaeton........could very well have be discussing and trying to decide with family friends........coupe ? roadster ?........no lil Jonny not a depot hack !............ leading up to his choice..........and could very well have been be as simple as that .

More so ...I find these examples interesting that they were actual so wildly changed from original and such later dates.

 

 

 

 

 

[TerryB]

Early Detroit Electric automobiles were re-bodied and sold by the company.  The new bodies made the cars fit in better to the styling of the day. https://vintageelectriccars.com/car-1919-1931-detroit.aspx

[arcticbuicks]

i wonder...were there any repowered cars done the same way or same time.....or was this strictly rebody

[28 Chrysler]

I had a chance to buy the custom 1937 Chrysler Imperial that was built for Chrysler's wife before it was restored. 

[1912Staver]

England had many custom coachbuilders . The great depression and WW2 thinned their ranks conciderably, but a number survived into the 1960's. Most built bodies for RR and Bentley chassis up until the end. Prewar special bodies were available on a wide range of makes and price levels. Sports bodies as well as RR class cars. 

 Post war , in addition to RR catagory cars , lots of sporting specials. Some owner built, and fitted with aftermarket bodies, but some bodied by the last of the coach builders . And alloy sports bodies { rather than traditional coachbuilt } right up to the 1970's. Often X aircraft industry sheet metal people. 

 When I as young and involved in sports car restoration { mid - later 1970's } I worked with a Welsh body craftsman who imigrated to Canada in about 1970. He had apprenticed with a body building company that did the bodies for buses, both single decker and double decker. Then moved to the aircraft industry, and eventually vintage car alloy bodywork. 

 Remarkable skill. One of the cars he did for a wealthy client was a mostly new body for a badly crashed C type Jag. I learned a lot from him during our time working together.

[Rusty_OToole]

Chrysler had a deal with Derham, an old line custom coach builder, to finish their top of the line Imperial limousines. They would repaint them and install a complete custom interior, with a padded top. Of course the customer could specify any color, upholstery material, accessories etc they pleased.

 

Derham also made full custom bodies to order.

 

This went on until the mid fifties when Chrysler began getting their limousines built in Italy.

 

http://www.coachbuilt.com/bui/d/derham/derham.htm

 

 

[Rusty_OToole]

The Derham story mentions that it was not uncommon to transfer a custom body to a newer chassis when the old one wore out. They had one customer who had a body made in 1927 that was put on 5 different chassis before it wore out. Then the customer had a slightly modernized duplicate made and started over.

[arcticbuicks]

amazing 

[8E45E]

12 hours ago, 1912Staver said:

England had many custom coachbuilders . The great depression and WW2 thinned their ranks conciderably, but a number survived into the 1960's. Most built bodies for RR and Bentley chassis up until the end. Prewar special bodies were available on a wide range of makes and price levels. Sports bodies as well as RR class cars. 

 Post war , in addition to RR catagory cars , lots of sporting specials. Some owner built, and fitted with aftermarket bodies, but some bodied by the last of the coach builders . And alloy sports bodies { rather than traditional coachbuilt } right up to the 1970's. Often X aircraft industry sheet metal people. 

 When I as young and involved in sports car restoration { mid - later 1970's } I worked with a Welsh body craftsman who imigrated to Canada in about 1970. He had apprenticed with a body building company that did the bodies for buses, both single decker and double decker. Then moved to the aircraft industry, and eventually vintage car alloy bodywork. 

 Remarkable skill. One of the cars he did for a wealthy client was a mostly new body for a badly crashed C type Jag. I learned a lot from him during our time working together.

Remember, Rolls-Royce bought both H.J. Mulliner and Park Ward and merged them to become 'Mulliner Park Ward', which became their in-house body custom, and low-production car body builder.   Not to mention, coachbuilder, Vanden Plas got sold to British Motor Corporation, and remained in operation in Kingsbury until 1979.  In the end, all VDP did was install high-end interiors in some of the British Leyland cars and Jaguars.  And in the US, GM bought out Fleetwood, and Chrysler bought LeBaron back in the 1930's.

 

Craig

[8E45E]

21 hours ago, hook said:

I think you're all stuck in one type of custom bodied car and not thinking of a large market of custom bodied cars of today. What about custom limousines, hearses, bullet resisting armored cars, etc.? All of these are custom bodied and built by special companies. These companies buy a car and parts from the manufacture and alter or create as needed for their intended purpose. 

I believe that was the original poster's intent.

 

I was not thinking about cars that are NOT customized, but adapted to client needs, including stretch limousines, armor-plating, et al.  Today, GM and Ford do farm out low-production work to American Sunroof Corp. (ASC) and Hess & Eisenhardt for modification.   And places like Superior, Collins, S&S, exist for stretch limousines and hearses.

 

Craig

[Rusty_OToole]

There were a number of shops in England that could turn out complete custom bodies besides the well known ones that did work for Rolls Royce and Bentley. Take the Railton for example, an American Hudson chassis with English coachbuilt body. In the six years they were produced they had bodies made by seven different makers including Ranalah, R.E.A.L Coachwork and Coachcraft. Few of them survived WW2 but during the fifties, there were new body makers using fibreglass to make sports car bodies.

[8E45E]

2 hours ago, Rusty_OToole said:

Few of them survived WW2 but during the fifties, there were new body makers using fibreglass to make sports car bodies.

One must be careful to differentiate 'kit cars' from 'coachbuilt' cars.

 

Craig

[1912Staver]

The line becomes quite blurred at times.  Many early Lotus cars { and a few others } were available in  " kit " form . But mainly to save on purchase tax. In most cases a fully complete car, just needed the big chunks put together. Very nice, hand formed alloy bodies were often used on these early examples. A slightly different case with my Buckler. At first Buckler built a number of complete cars. With very nice , hand built alloy bodywork. But as time went on they mainly sold very up to date , tubular chassis kit for owners to build up into their own competition cars or road going sports cars. Some got hand made alloy bodywork and many got fiberglass, aftermarket  " sports shells ". Two of the nicest alloy body examples were built right here in Canada for club racing in the later 1950's. The Autosport special, and the Canadair special

 Any of these are as far away from a fiberglass body plunked down on a VW pan as can be imagined.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 13 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[Walt G]

Much discussion on a new body going onto a older chassis - how about an older body being transferred to a new chassis?  If a wealthy customer loved the body on their car but felt they needed to update the drive line that was done, but is rarely if ever mentioned. It happened here on long island. Marjorie M. Post was married to E.F. Hutton  , she of the cereal family and he of the wall street broker business. ( her house still stands and is now C.W. Post College in Brookville, NY) . They had a 1927 RR sport sedan and loved the body on the car. They bought a new 1935 Packard V12 and the body from the RR was transferred to that 1935 Packard chassis.  It was owned for decades by my friend Lew Smith of Garden City, NY and I rode in and drove the car.  Lew lived 3 miles east of me ( I eventually bought his 1927 Phantom I RR Trouville town car - also a car that had a newer body mated to an older chassis- that done in 1931) )

The 1935 Packard that was the E F Hutton car is now in California and in a very happy home.

Edited September 13 by Walt G (see edit history)

[human-potato_hybrid]

Henney folded around 1954. They made rich people cars as well as ambulances, hearse, etc. The demand was really dying off at that point.

[Packard Don]

Henney was actually around into the '60s and built the Henney Kilowatt electric car based on a Renault Dauphine but as I understand it, that was at their New York division with their partner National Union Electric Corp.

[Rusty_OToole]

Just to confuse things further. In England in the mid 1930s some car dealers took good used Rolls Royce and other high grade chassis, that were 7 to 10 years old, and had them rebodied in the latest style. They were called "replicas" at the time. If you see an old newspaper or magazine advertisement for a "replica" car, that is what they mean.

[Packard Don]

The 1964, 1965 and 1966 Imperials, which were basically the same body, were often modified to be the latest year although it didn't take all that much. From 1964 to 1965 or 1966, the grille area took some bodywork to accept the later one but mainly it was emblems, wheel covers and in some cases the dash was changed too.

 

There were also, of course, 132 coach-built Imperials from 1957 to 1965 built by Ghia of Italy and I owned one for many decades.

Edited September 14 by Packard Don (see edit history)

[1912Staver]

15 hours ago, Rusty_OToole said:

Just to confuse things further. In England in the mid 1930s some car dealers took good used Rolls Royce and other high grade chassis, that were 7 to 10 years old, and had them rebodied in the latest style. They were called "replicas" at the time. If you see an old newspaper or magazine advertisement for a "replica" car, that is what they mean.

Partially true no doubt. But it was also common for UK car companies to enter the leading competition events of the day with factory sports / racing one off's . If the factory modified car was sucessfull in a important event there would then often be a limited production of " replica " cars built and made available to members of the public. 

For example a 1934 Frazer Nash  TT replica. Not one of the original ,factory team entry cars, but a limited production copy . Built for wealthy amateur sportsmen for their own independent competition or fast road use. TT replicas , LeMans replicas, etc.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TexRiv_63]

Most luxury automakers from the teens through 30s offered whatever custom bodies their very wealthy buyers wanted including rebody projects. Another common service was to sell a car with two different bodies - an open one for the summer and a closed one for winter. The selling dealership would store the bodies and change them out for the customers. I have a full set of 1932 Cadillac "Service Man" in-house magazines for dealer mechanics and I was amazed at how many classified ads there were for the left-over bodies after the depression had slowed down this practice.