Now What Have I Done..... '22 Stanley Steam Car

[nsbrassnut]

The next cleaning steps.

Sometimes the cleaning process on this car reminds me about the saying how some things are as useful as re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. It makes me feel good, but adds little to the overall recommissioning process.

I took a can of old “colour back” polish wax off the shelf and some micro fibre clothes and tackled the old barely there paint. The last repaint I think was in 1950 and it has deteriorated bit over the years of cold storage. No one will ever confuse the slightly less dirty, slightly shinier look with a new paint job for sure. But I still think it looks better and looks a bit more cared for again.

If nothing else, the process of cleaning does get you to look at the full car and see what condition its in and what work it will need to be returned to service eventually.

Still have to tackle a cleaning of the wheels and tire yet.

 

Some during and after pictures below. Hope you find them of interest.

[John Bloom]

I love your car, it is special.  Press on and thanks for sharing with us.  

[nsbrassnut]

Thanks for the compliment, John.

 

Like many here I have been in the hobby since I was a teenager. I’m now a recent retiree! For many of us, we should be thankful to even have one hobby car. I have been fortunate through a combination of life and good luck to end up with more than one, although some days it does feel like it may be one to many.😉

 

My key list of features that attract me to specific old cars, in no particular order, include:

     Pre 1942 and especially pre-1930

     Interesting design or construction

     Known history, especially local history

     Preservation grade when possible (very rare for me anyway).

     And always an interest in steam having spent my career in the steam electric power plant field

 

The Stanley ticks every box on the list. What more can I say beside yes, it’s a special car and I am fortunate to have been able to bring it home. 😊

Edited January 21 by nsbrassnut (see edit history)

[nsbrassnut]

Well, hopefully this may count as a very small first step in the recommissioning process.

The previous owner likes to tell the story of when he and his wife were out on a country drive back in the late ‘50s and it when it got dark, they were still several miles from home in the country when the headlights quit and he could not find the reason. So, they dug out a flashlight that his wife held up and tried to shine on the road until they got home later that evening. Try getting away with that today.😊

Electrics were not a focus when he was putting it back together for a few last steam drives back in 2013. The electrics have nothing to do with steam systems on the Stanley, but they do operate the headlights, dash light, taillight and horn. And with these so so brakes you do want the horn to work. I had a 6V battery from another car lying nearby for winter storage so I thought I would try putting it in and see what might still work. First I had to go searching for my batter cable cleaner as the cable connections were pretty dirty. After installing the battery and trying the various switches horn button which resulted in a lot of nothing, it was time to get out the voltmeter and start tracing wires.

Well, the connections were dirty and corroded enough that no power showed up at the other end of the battery cable under the hood. This Stanley still has its factory electric warm up cables for the pilot vaporizer in place under the hood which I think is neat. Its not known to be very helpful as the design is intended to be allow the use of what is a starter switch on other cars to pass the full battery current through the pilot vaporizer tube to pre-heat it before lighting the pilot. The switch hides inside the left frame rail and the battery cable and connection to the rest of the car is connected to one of the studs. And of course, the studs are not accessible for cleaning so the switch had to come out. Easier said than done, I had to even take a bolt out of the steering box for the switch to clean and come out. After cleaning up the terminals and reinstalling the switch and cable I could measure power that far. It still took more wire tracing up through the amp meter and to the wiring fuse and more removal and cleaning of wire ends and a new fuse to get power to start to flow past the fuse. After some more trial and error, testing and “jiggling” switches and connections the left headlight light up and it "winked" at me. 😉

Its still an ongoing process to trace the wires, stop and clean connections and connectors, re-attach and test and try again. So far, I have got power to the headlights, both high and low beam, but with one dead high beam bulb, the dash light, tail light and the under hood light that helps you find where to light the pilot burner in the dark. I haven’t found that light on a wiring diagram yet, but it appears to be original in that it uses the same armoured wiring as the rest of the car. But still no horn.🤔

Surprisingly, compared to most steam cars, there is no factory light on the boiler water level gauge that is mounted on the forward floor board. And that gauge has a black face with silver pointer, not the easiest to see to start with and nearly impossible in the dark. I guess that they had enough confidence in the boiler automatics that they felt that a dash light to watch steam and fuel pressures  on the dash was enough.

It’s a small start, but I think it should count as a beginning.

[Terry Harper]

It’s a great start and absolutely fantastic! What better way to get to know and assess this wonderful car than by doing what you are doing… being curious and working on the myriad of little things that all add up to success. Wonderful!

[nsbrassnut]

Not directly car related. I wanted to put up some form of sloped shelf to hold reference manuals for easy reference while working on the car. First idea was to build a wooden shelf and find or make some angled mounting brackets. But after some more thought I ended up with this idea when wandering through Home Depot one day.

It’s a closet screen shelf mounted on an angle. Three main components, the shelf, plastic wall mounting clips designed for the shelf and some regular shelf brackets with machine screws to support the bottom at an angle. Material cost wasn’t much and it holds the reference books at an easy to read height and angle.

 

And it can also double as a display shelf for small items like vintage manuals and ads.

[Jeff Perkins / Mn]

That shelf is a great idea which I will definitely incorporate in my shop!

[nsbrassnut]

Well, nothing on the old car front this time. Instead, I recently received the news that the previous owner of the Stanley passed away recently. He celebrated his 93th birthday at home last December. I hope that I will eventually reach such a milestone as well. A few forum members from our neck of the wood will know him, but for reasons of privacy I won’t name names here, but I would still like to make a small tribute to him.

 

He received a Batchelor’s Degree in Commerce from one of our universities and spent a few years in the insurance business. Later he developed a desire to move to something else and a few years later made the leap to purchase an apple farm. He was a pioneer in the industry in our area, opening one of, if not the first, U-Pick here and later also getting into apple cider and apple vinegar. He is survived by his wife o 69 years, son and daughters, grandchildren, great-grandchildren and extended family. He was also very active in an well known in the community and the apple industry in this area. The apple farm is still owned and operated by the family.

To show a bit of what kind of person and hobbyist that he was, here is a slightly edited excerpt from his obituary.

 

As a boy, he always had a great interest in all things electrical and mechanical. In 1948, at the age of 18, he sought out a 1922 Stanley Steamer touring car. He drove this for many years, which fulfilled his interest in steam power. During his lifetime he owned steam, gas, diesel, and electric cars. He always claimed the ’22 steamer was quieter than his 2022 electric Kona and that the touring car had a far greater vantage point when travelling. He loved spending time in his workshop where he always had a ‘project’ on. Among many, they included building his own continuous cider press, vinegar production equipment, apple harvester, solar heated swimming pool and reconfiguring his current home on the farm with passive solar, geothermal and photovoltaic where over the last few years, he used mostly solar energy. He was considered a man ahead of his time

 

Another couple items from the Stanley’s tickle trunk. Here is a copy of one of the letters that he wrote to the original owner of the Stanley when he was negotiating to purchase it. And couple pictures of him with the Stanley. The first is when he was driving it in a parade in 1958. The second when he last had the car operational in 2013. By the way, I’m not the passenger in that one.

I think someone may be looking over my shoulder as I work on the Stanley.

Edited February 2 by nsbrassnut (see edit history)

[wayne sheldon]

Nice tribute.

[nsbrassnut]

On a lighter note. My first Stanley care package arrived recently. I ordered a pair of main fuel pressure tanks along with some tools and bits to help with the Stanley from Vintage Steam. The original pressure tanks came loose with the car and visually look really good, both outside and inside. The previous owner, and some others based on some reading, have been concerned about the original brass alloy tanks stress cracking with age. Thin wall highly stressed brass like that in brass lamps which are often found stress cracked with age.

 

The previous owner made a pair of tanks out of stainless steel pipe and installed them in the car when he recommissioned it in 2013. I thought I would like to have a pair of original style tanks in the future so I ordered a pair while they are still available. I may yet also hydro pressure test the original tanks and see how solid they are as well.

 

You might smile at the label on the tanks. Vintage Steam started to add the labels after English customs drilled holes in a set as part of a customs inspection a while back.  😣  Fortunately, in that case the insurance replaced damaged set.

[nsbrassnut]

Hi All

 

Not much to report on the Stanley front. But I did contact the Stanley museum in Maine recently. I took out a membership and ordered the information reference binders that they have available for sale for Stanleys. It will be a few weeks before they arrive, one of them was out of print and they have to arrange to have a copy made.

 

I had a good chat with Debbie at the museum when placing my order. She mentioned that they have collected some information on the type of people that have ended up with Stanleys. She listed the most common being people like engineers, mechanics and the hands on types. But one type of owner that commonly came up was dentists interestingly.

 

Then we had a good smile when I told her that the original owner of my Stanley was also a dentist.😁

 

Some things don't change much, even after a 100 plus years. 😉

 

Drive Safe

Jeff

[Lahti35]

On 2/5/2024 at 8:22 PM, nsbrassnut said:

You might smile at the label on the tanks. Vintage Steam started to add the labels after English customs drilled holes in a set as part of a customs inspection a while back.  😣  Fortunately, in that case the insurance replaced damaged set.

Oh man, that would be a surprise when you opened up your brand new parts! Yikes!

[StanleyRegister]

This photo of the previous owner with the car is online at https://www.saltwire.com/atlantic-canada/news/woodvilles-renaissance-man-remembered-for-his-ingenuity-humour-100936018/ .  In 2009, I spoke with someone at Hershey about this car, and they reported that it was all in pieces.  If so, he definitely made a lot of progress since then.  Great acquisition, and it looks like the car is with the right next caretaker.  Can you provide the serial number?  If so, I can put the car on the Stanley Register website.

[Mike "Hubbie" Stearns]

I’m just wondering if the boiler has to be inspected annually?  I’ve worked on steam boiler for heating buildings and they have to be inspected every other year in Indiana. Mike

[alsancle]

44 minutes ago, Mike "Hubbie" Stearns said:

I’m just wondering if the boiler has to be inspected annually?  I’ve worked on steam boiler for heating buildings and they have to be inspected every other year in Indiana. Mike

Not in the USA.  Yes in the UK.

[John Bloom]

On 2/19/2024 at 7:17 PM, nsbrassnut said:

Hi All

 

Not much to report on the Stanley front. But I did contact the Stanley museum in Maine recently. I took out a membership and ordered the information reference binders that they have available for sale for Stanleys. It will be a few weeks before they arrive, one of them was out of print and they have to arrange to have a copy made.

 

I had a good chat with Debbie at the museum when placing my order. She mentioned that they have collected some information on the type of people that have ended up with Stanleys. She listed the most common being people like engineers, mechanics and the hands on types. But one type of owner that commonly came up was dentists interestingly.

 

Then we had a good smile when I told her that the original owner of my Stanley was also a dentist.😁

 

Some things don't change much, even after a 100 plus years. 😉

 

Drive Safe

Jeff

Dentists...........we are curious tinkerers who are foolish enough to take on projects that more stable/sane people know to stay away from.  When you're trying to unload a problem item that you think might be difficult to get rid of, mention it in passing at your dental apt.......you never know......

[nsbrassnut]

Well, the cat is out of the bag as the old saying goes.

 

Yes, this is the former Keith Boates of Boates U-Pick Stanley. When I started the blog I purposely left out names at the time. When I chatted with some of the family at the memorial a few weeks ago I checked with them if it was ok to include names and they said yes.

 

The picture in that article actually dates from earlier in 2023 when the original newspaper article was written. It was slightly updated when Keith passed away in January of this year.

 

Here are two related pictures. The first of Keith and his wife Charlotte that was taken back about 2013 when he last had the Stanley operational. The second is Keith and I from the day that I picked it up. It was a chilly day in late November and we both had our winter garage clothes on.

[nsbrassnut]

In response to some of the other questions.

 

 

 

 

The Stanley's number is 735B 220XX.

 

 

Back in 2009 the car was only partially apart. The engine and boiler were for work way back in the mid 1960s. They were still out of the car when I first saw it in person around 1998. The main rest of the car has never been apart since it was put together by the factory. It’s a bit of a time capsule in many ways.

 

 

Keith started to think about putting the Stanley back together around 2010. He looked into re-tubing the old boiler but eventually decided to go with a new Bourdon boiler that arrived about 2012. The Stanley was once again fired up in 2013 and driven a bit for a summer or two before being once again laid up indefinitely.

 

 

From looking the car over I don’t think he got too far into the rest of the mechanicals. The service brake bands were partially relined. But they are currently so far out of adjustment that there were NO brakes when we picked it up. The parking brake partially somewhat worked. So, we had to be careful moving it to make sure that it didn’t roll away.

 

 

Fortunately for me, almost anything that was ever taken off the car was stored away and included with it. Found in the various boxes were things like all four of the original Gabrial snubbers, various under hood original tubing and fittings sections, a spare “kidney” water level gauge, spare speedometer, even the remains of the original spring gaiter coverings. The material of the gaiters has basically melted together, but the original brass tags and fittings are still there.

 

 

More notes will follow later as I start to investigate and service more of the details.

 

 

In the meantime, here are some history pictures of the Stanley. I have been taking pictures of the car since about 1998 and saving them. One was even on my work PC as a screen saver for many years.

 

 

Hopefully the come up in order. The first is from about 2000 when the car was still in the side garage of the “the big house” on the farm. The boiler is out and the engine is also out at that time. The next is 2012 as the new boiler was being installed when it was located in the farm’s workshop. Then in 2013 when it was mostly back together. I missed it when it was being fired up. And the last as it was in storage 2023 in the garage in the “little house” on the farm when I went to pick it up.

 

 

Enjoy.

Edited May 27 by nsbrassnut (see edit history)

[nsbrassnut]

And now some Hershey thoughts. I was able to attend Hershey in 2023 for the first time in a few years. I may have met one or two of the forum members and chatted about the car at the time. I'm terrible with names, so lets see if this rings a bell with anyone.

 

I think it was in the Orange field that I stopped to chat with a couple people. It was a small stand where someone had a pair of Brooks steam car gauges along with a couple Stanley items. I stopped to ask for some advice about the value of a ’22 Stanley and showed a couple pictures of it. If they are here, I ended up with the Stanley for a fair price that was less than what I mentioned at the time.

 

And then later on the car show field. I was sitting wit Gil Fitzhugh, the elder, in his Stanley touring car chatting. And there was someone that I think as helping to direct show cars on the field. I mentioned that I was considering a Stanley project. Their comment was along the lines of “buy it”.😉

 

Sound familiar to anyone here?

[r1lark]

nsbrassnut, this is a very enjoyable and informative thread! I don't know much about Stanleys, but hope to learn more thru this thread. A lot of my interest is due to 40 years of steam experience via my career (but it was supercritical steam at 3500psig/1000deg F turbine inlet conditions). 

 

Thank you for taking the time to document your revival of this car!

[nsbrassnut]

For R1Lark

 

We steam power plant engineers have to stick together. We are becoming dying breed in North America these days.

 

My own experience (36 years) is on smaller turbine generators, only 1850 psi, 1005 F at the turbine inlet. We never got into the larger super critical boilers here.

 

Part of how I got my interest to chase the Stanley. And also where my caution when working on the steam systems comes from too.😉

[nsbrassnut]

Sometimes patience will eventually pay off. I was stumped about how to get the headlight rims off to get inside the headlights for inspection and to replace one burned out bulb. The rims were originally nickeled, but nearly all of it has peeled off. But bits are left that will cut your hand if you aren’t careful so out came some rubber faced gloves.

 

There were no obvious screws holding the rims on that I could see from the front. And since I have been hanging out with Ts too much, I assumed that the rims must therefore be the spring loaded, turn and release style. I sprayed penetrating oil around the rims and slowly got one to spring and rotate a few degrees but it would not release. The second was tight on the bucket and would “spring” a bit but would not rotate.

 

I didn’t want to damage the lenses so I walked away and would return to them now and then when I was walking by the car. One evening I tried again, with gloves and during the twisting I heard something rattle at the bottom. So, I looked more closely at the bottom of the rim and bucket and well d*#*. I found a locking lever hiding up against the edge of the rim on the bottom where I completely missed it before. A little fiddling and it moved back and then the bottom of the rim came forward and the rim tilted right off the bucket. When I tried the lever on the stuck rim it came loose then that rim came right off too.

 

A closer look afterward and I found out that the rim was held in by being dropped over two raised tabs on the top then when the bottom was pushed on the bucket, the lever could be moved and inside the bucket the other end of the lever grabs the bottom of the rim and holds it in place.

 

The whole process only took me a couple weeks to figure out what should have taken a couple of minutes. That black lever was hiding on the underside of a black bucket and I completely missed it before. But at least it all came apart without damage.

 

I did find inside the rims that the rope gaskets were in poor shape and the glass lenses were resting against the metal rim and the reflector. So, time to head to the local Stanley dealer, aka the friendly neighbourhood hardware store for some rope gasket material.

 

I’m glad that I took the rims off. I found that one of them was missing one of the four metal tabs that holds the lens in place and the lens was rattling around a bit. Another project for the list. Make up a fourth retaining tab and solder it in to replace the missing one.

 

The reflectors are in good condition for the age and will get a gentle polish before the lenses go back on. And a friend was able to supply a good pair of 32 CP headlight bulbs so now all four headlight sockets work and light up.

 

Some pictures of what I found below.

[nsbrassnut]

 

I hope that the members here will allow me this small project to qualify as actual recommissioning work.

 

I have been thinking that I would rather see the headlight lenses stored in the lights than in the back seat or on a shelf. In part to try to avoid accidental damage.

 

I needed to take a break from some on-going and frustrating re-wooding of a ’13 Ford T touring body. That year was not only a bad design, this body was badly built Fisher Canada as they were just starting up about that time. And time and moisture have severely damaged the original wood frame. Enough said about that one.🤐

 

Anyway, it seemed like a good opportunity to take some time and see if I could make a replacement headlight retaining tab to replace the missing one. I brought one rim up to the workshop to inspect more closely. Turns out a second retaining tab was loose so I took it out to better use as a pattern. Then dug through the bits pile and found some body metal of the right thickness and cut a strip. Using combination of the vise and sander I was able to get a close match. And with the help of a sharp punch and some nail sets tapped out the tab that gets bent to retain the lens. Afterward I tinned the retainer and soldered both the new and loose ones back into the rim. The process overall went smoother than expected.

 

Then with some new nylon rope for the gasket in rim that the glass sets on the first lens when back in. Of course, the process was going to easily. When I went to install the second lens one of the bent tabs snapped off. Back to the shop with the second rim and off with the failed retainer. For that one I made and soldered in a new retaining tab to the old retainer and re-installed it in the rim. That didn’t go too bad either, except for dropping the first tab and it disappearing somewhere under the workbench. 😖The second one worked out though.

 

There should also be a rope gasket between the reflector and the lens on the back side. The reflector has a groove in it for the gasket. Getting one to stay on the reflector when it’s standing up is not so easy. When at the hardware store I found some soft white tubular weather strip with an adhesive backing. It had two round sealing sections and when split into two strips made a pair of nice ¼” diameter hollow rubber gaskets that could be stuck to the reflector. Then with a bit of care and gentle pushing the rims and lenses went back on the Stanley. And no rattles now either.

[nsbrassnut]

I received a “care package” from the Stanley Museum this week. ☺️I had ordered copies of their Stanley information collection binders. I have only glanced inside so far to look for some highlights for the 1921-22 period. And I found good stuff. I ordered the material a few weeks back, but they had to wait for one binder to be reprinted (out of stock) and then the snail mail to get up here. The staff at the Stanley museum were very helpful and made the process easy.

 

While in the Stanley mood, I tackled the rear brakes on one side. Opening up and inspecting the brakes has been high on the list of things to start do first. Mainly as the service brakes were essentially useless when I picked it up and the hand brake was the only thing that would help keep it from rolling away. My yard is all sloped and I will have to move the car into the separate workshop before starting the serious steam system work. And I need to have a bit more control when towing and rolling it around to keep it from getting away.

 

Spoiler alert. The brakes are the obsolete and not very good design that I suspected when first looking at it. Stanley was very late to even bring their mechanical brakes “up to date”. Its not surprise that many have modified or upgraded the brakes on their Stanley.  I’ll be taking some pictures and notes on that whole topic and will share them in some later posts.

[John Bloom]

57 minutes ago, nsbrassnut said:

I received a “care package” from the Stanley Museum this week. ☺️I had ordered copies of their Stanley information collection binders. I have only glanced inside so far to look for some highlights for the 1921-22 period. And I found good stuff. I ordered the material a few weeks back, but they had to wait for one binder to be reprinted (out of stock) and then the snail mail to get up here. The staff at the Stanley museum were very helpful and made the process easy.

 

 

 

While in the Stanley mood, I tackled the rear brakes on one side. Opening up and inspecting the brakes has been high on the list of things to start do first. Mainly as the service brakes were essentially useless when I picked it up and the hand brake was the only thing that would help keep it from rolling away. My yard is all sloped and I will have to move the car into the separate workshop before starting the serious steam system work. And I need to have a bit more control when towing and rolling it around to keep it from getting away.

 

 

 

Spoiler alert. The brakes are the obsolete and not very good design that I suspected when first looking at it. Stanley was very late to even bring their mechanical brakes “up to date”. Its not surprise that many have modified or upgraded the brakes on their Stanley.  I’ll be taking some pictures and notes on that whole topic and will share them in some later posts.

 

Great information.  Good to hear the Stanley museum is a helpful group.  I'm happy you are sharing this "excursion" you are taking into steam world.  some of us other uninformed admirers will be interested in how you work through these systems that are foreign to many of us.  Don't filter out the bad days.  Do you have a general idea of the order you are tackling different systems and mechanical processes?

 

 

[nsbrassnut]

In response to John’s question.

 

I sort of have an order in mind, but like many things, subject to revision as time goes on. The process is based in part by proceeding with little steps to learn about the car and gain some experience with it. Start with the simple stuff that I have some experience with, then work my way up to the actual steam systems and then eventually fire it up.

 

It’s along the lines of:

 

-          Clean and condition the interior, floor and car. This help to gain some familiarization with the car. And cleaning and conditioning of the leather has been number one on my list since even long before I was able to bring it home.

-          Electrical system. Since there isn’t much and its fairly straight forward, I thought it an easy way to start.

-          Brake inspection and service. They were nearly useless when picked up and I need them working to move the car around, even behind a tow rope.

-          Suspension and steering. Mainly, wheel bearings inspection and service.

-          Move the car from the “clean garage” to the “dirty work garage” then start into the unique Stanley systems.

-          The burner will need to come off for inspection. There are 4000+ small holes in there for the fuel to vapour to pass through. And after 10 years sitting, I think that even slight rusting may have plugged many off.

-          The boiler cover will need to come off and the boiler tube sheets cleaned of light surface rust and the flue tubes wired brushed and cleaned.

-          Hydro pressure testing of key parts, boiler, fuel tanks, etc... Pressure test only to working or slightly above pressure to be comfortable that they are good to use since they aren’t new, but they visually look good inside and out.

-          Inspect the engine and rear axle since they have been sitting too. There is a good chance the engine will come out and on the bench for inspection if anything looks out of place when I remove the inspection covers.

-          Inspect and service as necessary the water, steam and fuel plumbing and pumps. They may or may not come out for work as they do visually look good in place, just dirty.

-          Slowly working up to stationary test firing and later on to yard test driving etc...

-          Then when I have developed some level of comfort and understanding of the car, an actual road test on the road.

-          And like I have been doing with my other antiques, I start out at or nearly stock in the beginning. Then if there is something I don’t like I will consider “upgrades”.

 

There are a lot of items not mentioned above that will have to be done along the way. Such as one big one. Biting the bullet and ordering a new set of tires. That is going to sting.

 

I’m not working to any specific schedule and don’t want to rush anything. Some of the parts are nearly irreplaceable and I would rather take longer to figure it out slowly than rush and break something. But I am starting to have an itch to reach the “fire it up” point before next winter.

 

And in between all of that, try to keep some other old cars going, doing house and yard chores, and usual “doobie” list that life keeps throwing in the way.

 

By the way, if anyone else is getting a Stanley itch, check out the HCCA website ads. A good looking ’23 Stanley touring was listed recently.😉

[nsbrassnut]

Back to some actual Stanley work.

 

I think it was Bellamy Partridge in his book Excuse My Dust, who said something along the lines of, “If I spent as much time on promoting my career as I spent on automobiles, I would surely be at the top of my profession”.  His book was the basis for the 1951 Red Skelton movie, Excuse My Dust. A fun old movie for an early car fan. Well, I didn’t make it to the top of my profession either, I spent way too much time in the car books and later in the garage. But along the way I picked up a lot of interesting information that actually starts to come in handy at times like this.

 

I have managed to build up a small collection of various period service books such as Dykes and Page manuals and have spent hours just reading through them. These manuals have a lot of very good information on the general systems such as brakes, suspension, electrical etc. especially for early automobile technology. Below is an extract from a 1910 Dykes Automobile lessons booklet on brake design. I’m showing their explanation vs trying to describe it myself. I have spent some time reviewing the early mechanical brake information in these books while trying to figure out the mechanical brakes on my ’05 Cadillac and ’14 Hudson. Both have designs weaknesses and are not the best for their period. I even found information in the Hudson service bulletins where the factory realized that the ’14 brakes were “poor” and sent out modification kits to make them work better. Something that has yet to be added to mine though. And as part of that process, I have tried out three different modern linings recommended by others and my own research on my cars so far and I’m not entirely satisfied by any of them. But I have learned at least one to avoid for external bands though. There are some special steps to take to get good service from the modern replacement lining. I have on my “wish list” getting enough original period flexible woven brake lining to try it out for a comparison at some point in the future.

 

Anyway, look close at the illustration and description of “single acting” external brakes vs the “double acting”. This is the type my Stanley that is used for the service brake. There is also another internal band brake that is the hand brake. And as noted in the Dykes instructions, this style was considered out of date and was being phased out by almost everyone else by 1910. By 1922 it was really out of date. This style of contracting band works well in only one direction, by layout forward and is very poor in reverse. I was warned that Stanleys are known for their poor brakes. This helps to explain where that came from. And after taking one apart and looking closely I think I may have found a design weakness with the Stanley’s design too. Stay tuned later.

 

Most cars by this period that were still using external contracting band brakes has changed over to the “double acting” design which provides a better clamping force round the brake drum and will “self energizing” in both forward and backward motion. The double acting external bands are on my Hudson and most everything else from around 1910 up until the change to all internal brakes.

[prewarnut]

As a note, I believe I read that contemporary owners have modified the rear brakes and essentially switched them so that the main braking by pedal is on the internal shoes and parking brake on the external band. It possibly requires different or larger shoes but worth investigating/verifying. This is a mod I'd probably do. The couple Stanleys for sale are tempting. The burgundy 750 is just beautiful, the green one might be another one at an affordable price, alas a lot of surface rust is on it begging for a bunch of nickel plating and repainting...Good luck!

[nsbrassnut]

For PreWarNut

 

I have heard of that also. And it came to mind when I was dismantling and inspecting the brakes. The inside brake is a heavy single cast expanding shoe actuated by rotating cam where the two ends meet. Similar to that of a Ford T parking brake, but much heavier and more robust.

 

To make the switch on the Stanley I think I will need to make new brake rods. And to that I'll need to order in a special threading die. It turned out that the rods are adjusted like turnbuckles, with left and right hand threads. But, one end is the long rod from the front to the turnbuckle coupling at the back. And that long rod has the left hand threads. And I have been warned that Stanley used what are now obsolete thread patterns. For example so far on the rear brake parts are 5/16-20 tpi, 3/8-20 tpi and 1/2-20 tpi. Notice the trend here.😉

 

Here is a picture of the one side after the wheel was pulled off. I go into more detail later on what I found while cleaning it up.

 

 

[JV Puleo]

The obsolete threads shouldn't be a problem, at least for anyone with a screw cutting lathe. Taps are usually available as well...try Victor Machine in New York. I do have reservations about switching the brake rods though. It's something I've done myself but I wonder if it made a difference and I'd be skeptical of second guessing the original designers, especially with a well made and thought out expensive car.

[DonMicheletti]

I was told by Jim Crank (a steam car nut) that all the threads on a Stanely are 20tpi. Jokingly (I think) he said  they probably had a gear change lathe with only one set of gears.

 

Is the 20tpi thing true?

[alsancle]

1 hour ago, DonMicheletti said:

I was told by Jim Crank (a steam car nut) that all the threads on a Stanely are 20tpi. Jokingly (I think) he said  they probably had a gear change lathe with only one set of gears.

 

Is the 20tpi thing true?

Every Car Nut should buy a copy of Jim’s book on the Doble. A two album set that is fantastic!

[DonMicheletti]

Jims Doble book is great. He spent tye better part of 30 years researching it.

There is a lot more that was not published as part of the book.

[nsbrassnut]

I don' have that one. But I do have a copy of the older Doble book by J. N. Walton from the 1970's. I dug it out for comparison and had to smile when I opened it up. I bought it in Hershey back in 1994. The receipt reminded me that I actually bought it from the Stanley Museum booth. Just goes to show that I have been lingering in the back ground for a while. 😉

 

I have also heard the one about Stanley having only a limited set of threading gears. But I think it might have been two sets when I heard it. So there may be one other "standard" thread pitch in there somewhere too that I am watching for on the car.

[nsbrassnut]

Back to the Stanley brakes.

 

If the car manufacturers had everything well thought out, then why do they keep issuing recalls?😄

 

I believe that I found a design weakness in the way the Stanley service brake is mounted at the front. Let’s see if I can describe it well enough for others to see how I came to that conclusion. In this case you need to look closely at the front lower anchor point for the service brake band. The actuating shaft goes though an arm on the axle and rotates to pull the top end of the band down. The bottom band anchor is held in place by a through stud that is bolted to an outer link that is a loose fit on the rotating shaft. On the inside, this same anchor stud is mounted to a rigid arm on the combination bronze shaft bearing an anchor link. The stud is supposed to be parallel to the axle. The problem here is when the brake is energized the band pulls on this stud that is fitted between a fixed link and a loose link. Neither of the link mounts for the stud are in line with the direction of pull when the band in actuated. The result is when the brake is applied and the band pulls on the stud, it produced a bending moment on the side links. But only one link can swing and the other is fixed. So, as you may be able to see in the picture, the fixed bronze link bent towards the brake drum. The end of the brake band is now twisted and the lining will not bear evenly on the first portion of the drum.

 

The more correct way to make mount the stud that holds the brake band would be to have two loose links on the rotating actuating shaft, both of which are free to turn on the shaft and line up with the pull force from the band. Having two rigid links for the stud would also work, but the way that this axle is built that would require a much different forging for the end of the axle.

 

The inner rigid link could be modified to solve this problem. Remove link section of the bronze bearing and install a second steel floating link on the brake actuating shaft. Then both sides of the retaining stud that holds the end of the band would move together as needed.

 

This issue also helps to explain why only a portion of the service brake lining was replace during its last service. The portions of the lining that were removed were still in the spares box and could be lined up with their position on the band. The anchor end of the brake band where it is twisted contributed to uneven wear on the brake lining wearing the first few inches of bottom portion of the lining over half way through, while the top portion of the lining was barely worn.

 

Here are some pictures of the service brake actuating shaft and links. One is looking up from below so may be a bit awkward to relate to. I also included a picture of the linkages reassembled before the wheel went back on.

 

The various parts of the brake linkages were taken to the shop for degreasing, wiring brushing and just enough paint to prevent rusting. Overall, everything came apart fairly easily and the parts show only a little wear. I also ended up taking the brake rods off and up to the shop to wire brush and clean the threads on the turnbuckles so that they would turn more easily. It’s a nice change to work on an old car that comes apart without a struggle when you put the wrench on it. What a change from my usual experiences on old worn out Ford model Ts. I still have to do some fine tuning of the linkage, but at least now its improved from nothing to something for brakes, but you can see that there is much less action turning the wheel backwards vs forwards with this design. Propping the brakes on with a stick, I can’t turn the wheel forward, but I can turn it backwards. And I’m not that strong either.

 

Reading through the binder of Stanley service bulletins that came last week it looks like they did eventually realize that there were issues with this rear end design. A bulletin from 1921 goes on to describe the improvements made for the new Model 740 that came out in ’21/22 as a up scale model. Right in the description three changes to the rear axle are pointed out. A larger service brake band with 60% more lining, redesigned double acting brake linkage and a change in the rear axle shaft use tapered axle and wheel hub with key instead of the half taper half square spline mount on the 735. (similar to most of the makers by then). Tip if you are looking at a pair of Stanleys, one a 735 and one a 740 models and are considering taking one home, pick the 740. 😉

Last question. How do you get the pictures into the middle of the text instead of all at the end?

 

[charlespetty]

You have to post a photo, then add text.  Post another photo and add text, etc. At least that is how I do it.  

[nsbrassnut]

A progress report on the Stanley brake inspection. I took the other side apart for cleaning, inspection and reassembly. Overall it is worth the effort to do a detailed inspection when you pick up a new to you old car that has been sitting. Overall nothing nothing too serious has been found. The worst finding was the bending and wear of the bronze anchor link for the service brakes. On the second side, there wasn't much bending, but the threads in the bronze are mostly stripped out. Fortunately the stud is locked in with a secondary nut to keep it in place.

 

While in there I took off the bearing retainer and seal holder to look at the outer wheel bearings. No obvious issues, but the grease looked a bit old. So with the seal off I was able to flush out most of the old grease and repack it with fresh grease using the grease cup on top. Refilling it a few times and rotating the axle allowed for a pretty good flush. I'm in no rush to pull the axle and bearing at this time, but I wanted to see what I could inspect while the wheel was off.

 

I did find a few things to clean along the way. Carefully chasing some damaged threads on a brake actuating shaft and cleaning up the threads on the brakes rods so that everything turns smoothly and the full length of the threads.

 

I also found one cotter pin hole on the service brake band stud that had the cotter pin sheared off in it. Some careful drilling and a drift got that one out. Now I have to go back on the other side and do the same thing as the hole is plugged in that one also.

 

Going through the process also helps me better learn about the Stanley. Since there are no manuals for it that I'm aware of this is about the only way to figure it out. I found out that the service brake on the car lacks any compensating mechanism balance the brake force side to side. Most cars by then had some form of one, even my '14 Hudson had one. I was able to adjust the brakes to the point that they appear to be reasonable. But to fine tune and balance the brakes will eventually need the car to be driven and the linkage adjusted to get equal action on each side. That's the only way to get this design of linkage balanced.

 

Still more to do, but at least I have a better idea what and how to do it. And now everything is freed up and ready to go.

 

And now to see if the pictures loaded in the middle as intended.

 

 

 

 

[nsbrassnut]

Hi All

 

Looking for some advice this time. My Stanley has Firestone 34 - 4 1/2 wheels and rims. I noticed when taking the rear rims and wheels off to service the brakes that the car has a bit of a mix of rim clamps. There are three different styles. In the picture, the one labelled 2 is the most common one.

 

Anyone out there with Firestone wheels and rims that could compare these ones with theirs and suggest what they think are the most correct clamps for these wheels.

 

Thanks

 

Jeff

[PFindlay]

4 hours ago, nsbrassnut said:

Anyone out there with Firestone wheels and rims that could compare these ones with theirs

Hi Jeff, my '15 Russell has 25" Firestone rims with these clamps.   Peter

 

[alsancle]

The 750 has the final improved engine design with larger axles and bearings I believe.  The case is bigger too.  A Stanley guy can confirm that.   Things went sideways with the SV the next year (25) as they were trying to lighten up the design and went backwards.