1920s 12v battery

[Mpgp1999]

I am trying to get a perfect score in the HPOF class. I am looking for an original 12 V battery. I will then rebuild it. I’m not sure if there are any other items that I could lose points on?

[TerryB]

I had to check the date to see if it was April 1st.  

[Mpgp1999]

What did an original battery look like?  Was it 3 glass cells in a wooden box?  If anyone has any photos or measurements please let me know. 

[Bloo]

You did say 12 volts didn't you? That would be 6 cells if so. Real 20s car batteries I saw when I was younger used hard rubber cases more like the batteries used in 30s-60s cars, but had rudimentary handles cast in the hard rubber case at each end with 2 finger holes, sticking up above the top of the battery. I guess they were finger holes. These batteries I saw were 6 volt.

 

Hupmobile were still using glass jars in wooden boxes as late as 1916-17, but were complaining in service bulletins about problems with jar breakage. I don't know what Dodge Brothers were doing exactly, so I could be wrong, but I'll bet the jars were gone by the 1920s. What year are you trying to duplicate?

 

Edited April 19, 2023 by Bloo (see edit history)

[28 Chrysler]

Bloo

The early Dodge Brothers had a 12V system with a Starter/generator combination. The batteries would be the hard black case with the tar tops, Exide may have been the supplier.

6V example

[dodge28]

Dodge brothers used 12 volts in the years 1916 17 and I think 1918 . Not sure of 1918. Dodge Brothers were manufactured in Windsor , Ontario, Canada. The Battery was made by WILLARD of Toronto, Canada. Electrical components were by North/East Electrical Co. of Rochester, New York..(except the s generator was 3 brush Delco in 1929)

I saw 12 volts batteries encased in flat glass in wooden boxes. Those were the ones that techniions were able to replace defective cells. The battery charger was like a large light bulb with a terminal at the top.   Come to the Question of loosing points, I think the judges should ignore that point completely. By the way, with technology and material available today  is it possible to build one in your back yard ?  Just thinking.

[Rusty_OToole]

I think they already make a cover that slips over  a modern battery to make it look like an old tar top.

[61polara]

On 4/13/2023 at 12:57 PM, Mpgp1999 said:

I am trying to get a perfect score in the HPOF class. I am looking for an original 12 V battery. I will then rebuild it. I’m not sure if there are any other items that I could lose points on?

Although there are generally no deductions in HPOF for condition, if a part or component is deteriorated to the point that it is no longer useful for its intended purpose or missing there could be a deduction.  Your car could receive up to 9 deductions and still receive the HPOF award.  Only 4 deductions would be permitted to receive the HPOF Original award.

Edited May 5, 2023 by 61polara (see edit history)

[Mpgp1999]

11 hours ago, Bloo said:

You did say 12 volts didn't you? That would be 6 cells if so. Real 20s car batteries I saw when I was younger used hard rubber cases more like the batteries used in 30s-60s cars, but had rudimentary handles cast in the hard rubber case at each end with 2 finger holes, sticking up above the top of the battery. I guess they were finger holes. These batteries I saw were 6 volt.

 

Hupmobile were still using glass jars in wooden boxes as late as 1916-17, but were complaining in service bulletins about problems with jar breakage. I don't know what Dodge Brothers were doing exactly, so I could be wrong, but I'll bet the jars were gone by the 1920s. What year are you trying to duplicate?

 

You are correct six cells each 2.2 V.  I am trying to duplicate 1925.

[Mpgp1999]

8 hours ago, dodge28 said:

Dodge brothers used 12 volts in the years 1916 17 and I think 1918 . Not sure of 1918. Dodge Brothers were manufactured in Windsor , Ontario, Canada. The Battery was made by WILLARD of Toronto, Canada. Electrical components were by North/East Electrical Co. of Rochester, New York..(except the s generator was 3 brush Delco in 1929)

I saw 12 volts batteries encased in flat glass in wooden boxes. Those were the ones that techniions were able to replace defective cells. The battery charger was like a large light bulb with a terminal at the top.   Come to the Question of loosing points, I think the judges should ignore that point completely. By the way, with technology and material available today  is it possible to build one in your back yard ?  Just thinking.

That is a possibility. 

[Mpgp1999]

I’m looking for 6 of these or an exide battery that’s period correct. 

[60FlatTop]

On 4/19/2023 at 11:47 AM, dodge28 said:

Electrical components were by North/East Electrical Co. of Rochester, New York.

I drove past the old plant last week, not far down the street from the now closed DELCO plant. When N/E closed they sold an electric hard rubber tired, tiller steer crane to General Railway Signal. I used to run that crane back in my younger days. Even bent the boom overloading it. But I straightened it.

 

The best resource for an Exide battery would be schmoozing up to the Studebaker guys.

[RAH]

Guys, The Brothers Dodge used North East electric combination Starter and Generator from the beginning and were 12v powered by WILLARD batteries. Willard batteries. Here is a pic of one from early 20s note the factory handles. The early North East starter/generator was a model D, followed by the model G then G1 and GA. The switch to separate starter and generator (Still North east) and 6 volt on the '27 Fast-4. Here is a picture of an early Willard battery and a a period charger. Enjoy!

[RAH]

By the way, I also considered the possibility of restoring this Willard battery but declined as they say "It is original only once"!

[MikeC5]

A wooden case?  It must have been lined with lead or ??

[Pete O]

14 hours ago, RAH said:

By the way, I also considered the possibility of restoring this Willard battery but declined as they say "It is original only once"!

Very cool battery, an absolute relic from the past.  But as for it being original only once, what good is it if it doesn't function as intended?   "Original"  batteries held a charge and were usable in automobiles.  What you have here is just a very large and heavy paperweight in its current condition.   If it can be brought back to life and made to look exactly as it did when it functioned, that would be the best use of this battery IMHO.

[old car fan]

Matt is way over thinking. His car may get hpof nothing  more. 

[Mpgp1999]

19 hours ago, RAH said:

Guys, The Brothers Dodge used North East electric combination Starter and Generator from the beginning and were 12v powered by WILLARD batteries. Willard batteries. Here is a pic of one from early 20s note the factory handles. The early North East starter/generator was a model D, followed by the model G then G1 and GA. The switch to separate starter and generator (Still North east) and 6 volt on the '27 Fast-4. Here is a picture of an early Willard battery and a a period charger. Enjoy!

A battery like that would be perfect whether it worked or not it is a nice showpiece. 

[Bloo]

And an unbelievable reference piece. I wouldn't change a thing about it.

[Mpgp1999]

This may be the solution. A new battery that looks old. 

[Aussi John 1]

I remember 12 volt batteries being twice the size of a 6 volt battery, which was probably bigger than a current 12 volt battery.

 

As a modern 12 volt battery fits in the battery box made for 6 volt batteries of my prewar Studebakers, with room to spare.

[Mpgp1999]

The dimensions of the battery box are 14” X 8”.