Steven Nelson Posted April 9, 2023 Share Posted April 9, 2023 In September at the Goodwood Revival I purchased a beautiful Bentley “Special.” The purchase was from a known dealer with an exhibit at the event. We agreed on additional work to be done by the dealer, and the price. We went through the car as thoroughly as possible without tools or a lift. I was unable to drive the car before returning to the US—although it started beautifully. Because I was unable to put the car through its paces, the sale was conditioned on the 70-year-old car successfully passing a MoT inspection. The dealer assured me they did that to every car before it shipped. This understanding was memorialized in the contract for sale. Last week the car arrived in the US. The custom work had been done to a good standard, but the dealer “forgot” to send the car through MoT. Now I’m concerned about its safety and condition. What reasonable remedies do I have to cure this “oversight” by the dealer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trulyvintage Posted April 9, 2023 Share Posted April 9, 2023 Since you bought it Overseas ? … You have no recourse from a practical standpoint. Jim 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmhowe Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 Hi Steve, I think I would find a reliable old car restoration company here, talk with them about doing a thorough safety inspection equivalent to UK MoT. I would also research exactly what is involved in the MoT inspection. Agree on a price, then contact your seller. Ask him to pay for the inspection, and pay for any necessary repairs. There are, of course, several possible outcomes: He may tell you to suck an egg, and shame on him. He may agree totally, and he is an honest dealer and you are a lucky man. And somewhere in between. When you contact him, share the bonifides of your chosen inspector, so he won't worry about being set up. It is also in your favor that he knows you have reputable, respected company supporting you. Good luck! Please show pictures of your new Bentley. Phil 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechanician Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 Have you identified a specific problem? Assuming the MoT is equivalent to a state safety inspection over here, I would have zero confidence in such an inspection with respect to a period vehicle, most especially a special. I had a safety inspector damage one of my cars because he had no idea what he was doing with something of that age, but that’s for another thread. If you are concerned, find a period specific specialist to go through it, and if you intend on driving it much have them go over it with you and/or bring it to them routinely if you don’t feel comfortable yourself. There are some good ones that post on here. If everything looks good, sometimes an oversight is just an oversight… 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmhowe Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 Steve, Some additional thoughts; If I recall correctly (my last MoT inspection was in 1985) the MoT involves checking that the brakes are functional and not worn badly, the tires have adequate tread, the turn signals or semaphores work properly, the lights work properly, the horn works properly, and the windshield wipers work properly. But you should plan on doing all that yourself, anyway. If your answer is yes to each category, give yourself two thumbs up. You will learn good, valuable things about your car as you do it. Phil 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketraider Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 If you're close to Massachusetts or Florida depending on time of year, I think Ed Minnie (edinmass on Forums) would be an excellent choice to sort the car. Very knowledgeable on these type cars and very high work standards. There are also plenty other folks here who understand higher-end Brit cars and could sort your Bentley for a safety inspection. But agreed, you likely have little recourse given you're dealing with two countries an ocean apart. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 You need to have it inspected as soon as possible by a mechanic who is experienced in this type of car. For your own safety and peace of mind. If major defects are found it may be possible to seek redress from the dealer but if he does not want to play nice, chance of getting anything thru normal legal channels is remote. It might be possible to shame him into paying off with a nasty publicity campaign on the net. But unless the car is really bad, better to forget it and move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trulyvintage Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 I see the OP just joined. This thread is his first post. As has already been mentioned in other posts - have the car inspected. Post where the car is located so folks can make specific shop recommendations. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 (edited) The MoT is a basic safety check...brakes, lights, tires etc. It has an emissions aspect but it is very unlikely that would apply although you don't say what year your car is. Cars over 40 years old are exempt from MoT inspection and I suspect that has a lot to do with the practical inability of finding inspectors that are qualified to inspect them...we have exactly the same problem with inspections of cars that are too old for the so-called "inspectors" to understand. I fail to see what the problem is...most of what would have been checked should be immediately visible. Are the tires good? Do the lights work? A drive around the block should tell you if the brakes work. If you are looking for a far more detailed assessment of condition you will have to find someone qualified to do it and depending on where you are that may not be easy to do. Presuming it is more than 40 years old (like those Bentley speedsters made from Mk VI cars) you may be able to find someone to look it over. If it's a vintage Bentley or one of the early Derby cars you may have a tough time finding someone who even knows how to look at the brakes. [EDIT] I see you did mention how old it was...it must have started life as a MK VI. It's a very basic 6-cylinder engine and most of the other components are pretty straight forward. The one potential complication are the servo-operated brakes and I seriously doubt that any current MoT inspection station would have any idea how they worked... Edited April 10, 2023 by JV Puleo (see edit history) 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 OP stated it was a custom job or replica, newly made from a 70 year old Bentley so, a 1953 model more or less. That would make it an R type or Mark VII basically a Mark VI with a bigger boot. So we could be looking for 70 years of wear and tear, as well as possible dodgy work by the "Special" builder. Will wait for a day or 2 but, if Mr Newby runs true to form we will never hear from him again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 (edited) I've seen a few of these specials. In fact, I thought of building one once. The usual practice was to chuck the saloon body, shorten the chassis and set the radiator back to give it a vintage Bentley look. I remember seeing one in the Jack Barclay showroom in Berkeley Square. It was very well done. Edited April 10, 2023 by JV Puleo (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1939_Buick Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 35 minutes ago, Rusty_OToole said: OP stated it was a custom job or replica, newly made from a 70 year old Bentley so, a 1953 model more or less. That would make it an R type or Mark VII basically a Mark VI with a bigger boot. So we could be looking for 70 years of wear and tear, as well as possible dodgy work by the "Special" builder. Typical --> https://vandp.net/sales/2153/1953-bentley-r-type-special/ Typical-->https://www.classicargarage.com/archives/bentley-4-5-litre-le-mans-special-1953 Some are poorly made cheapies What they start as 1953 R type--> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bentley_R_Type Given the quality of cars that get an UK MOT would not put much faith in that bit of paper. A basic safety check. Not condition Photo of the Steven Nelson car would be good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAKerry Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 If you are happy with the car, ok with what you paid then find someone that knows what they are looking at, give it a once over and enjoy it. Getting caught up in blame and not getting a MOT which is completely irrelevant in the US is the wrong approach and will only make you bitter. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordy Posted April 11, 2023 Share Posted April 11, 2023 22 hours ago, Rusty_OToole said: Will wait for a day or 2 but, if Mr Newby runs true to form we will never hear from him again. A bit harsh? We were all Mr Newby here once 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted April 11, 2023 Share Posted April 11, 2023 1 hour ago, Fordy said: A bit harsh? We were all Mr Newby here once Voice of experience. We get new members all the time who ask a question then never come back for the answer even though some very smart experienced people have taken the time to give them good answers. Probably 8 or 9 out of 10 first time questioners are that way. I don't mind answering questions, but it would be nice to see some kind of acknowledgement or response. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted April 11, 2023 Share Posted April 11, 2023 Sadly a lot of people treat a forum like a 7-Eleven convenient market. They get in, get what they need, and get out. They don't return until they need something else. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brasscarguy Posted April 11, 2023 Share Posted April 11, 2023 A few years back when I had a Rolls Royce/Jaguar service center I hired a brit to work for me. His workmanship was outstanding and had Rolls Royce training. That said he worked for a short while for one of the British brokers specializing in overseas sales. The stories he told of shoddy repairs, bondo rust out with carboard patches, slip shod repairs to get it running just enough to get it off the dock. He lasted 2 weeks and bailed. There are used car huckster there just as there are in the US. Especially if you bought this car without driving. They are experts at making it look good and can fabricate stories that would satisfy the queen, in reality once they get an out of the country buyer, without a road test, they know they are safe and you the buyer has no recourse without spending a ton of money likely exceeding what you spent. OH, just to know no way did they forget the MOT, its British law!!! to perform the MOT. just sayin, brasscarguy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAKerry Posted April 11, 2023 Share Posted April 11, 2023 10 hours ago, Rusty_OToole said: Voice of experience. We get new members all the time who ask a question then never come back for the answer even though some very smart experienced people have taken the time to give them good answers. Probably 8 or 9 out of 10 first time questioners are that way. I don't mind answering questions, but it would be nice to see some kind of acknowledgement or response. Or the ones that ask for recommendations of where to get something custom fabricated. Give them a viable source and they ignore or do not follow up. I have given names to a few people looking for specialty stuff with no follow through. Wont do it anymore. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted April 11, 2023 Share Posted April 11, 2023 10 minutes ago, TAKerry said: Or the ones that ask for recommendations of where to get something custom fabricated. Give them a viable source and they ignore or do not follow up. I have given names to a few people looking for specialty stuff with no follow through. Wont do it anymore. You learned your lesson! We typically fall all over ourselves to help newbies. I'll help relative to the amount of effort they put in. The thread on the 34 Buick that Ed ended up buying is a good example of a poster that deserved as much help as we could give her. Typically new posters asking for help provide 5% of the information you need to actually give them any real advice. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walt G Posted April 11, 2023 Share Posted April 11, 2023 we were all newbies once, those that are now giving advice had the same questions at one time BUT in my estimation when we got the advice ( 50 , 40, 30+ years ago??) we were more appreciative and let the person know who was helping us that they indeed made a difference for us, got us over the hurdle of a problem/issue. Today it seems more and more people expect an answer because what you have should belong to them too. ( but what effort have they made to do the same??) I think the age of instant information has been the cause of that, press a button or tap a key and there you are , now an educated "expert". Many of those of a certain vintage who are trying to be courteous and help here all learned from hands on experience - were guided by a learned friend step by step most of the time or had to read the instruction book, shop manual, Dyke's and Motor manuals to sort out the non working part. There was no "instant answer" this not only applies to solving a mechanical problem - artists drew images by hand- today you press a button for an image, author's researched information by looking in period material, periodicals , books, newspaper files etc that you had to go to the location to see and were not scanned to find on a screen. . As mentioned the time it takes to say think you to those who have helped provide and answer or surmount a problem is ignored now a lot of the time because the person who asked the question got his answer , that is all they wanted. The age of proper manners and courtesy has evaporated or dwindled and that I find very sad. BUT we do still have people who are appreciative and indeed take the time to say two words - thank you. End of rant # 567............................... But I will again say Thank You to AACA for providing us all with this place to contribute, vent, provide or just visit - If you are not a member step up and pay the dues to become one! you are taking advantage of what you see here almost everyday so skip the burger and fires one day and send in $ for dues . 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted April 11, 2023 Share Posted April 11, 2023 11 hours ago, brasscarguy said: ... just to know no way did they forget the MOT, its British law!!! to perform the MOT. It is certainly the law but I don't believe it applies any longer to cars more than 40 years old...the law was changed some time ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted April 11, 2023 Share Posted April 11, 2023 9 hours ago, brasscarguy said: There are used car huckster there just as there are in the US. Well, I don't know about hucksters but yesterday I was telling my wife I needed to by some base coat. She asked what it was. I told her the color coat that you spray clear over to give the final shine. I said the car dealers used to get a faded car in and they would shoot a coat of clear to brighten it up. She said "Oh, like you do when you wipe them down with kerosene". She made me laugh. Sometimes she catches on real quick. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Fan Posted April 11, 2023 Share Posted April 11, 2023 (edited) Does the car star, run without overheating, stop, etc? Ie does the car generally work? If so, I am not sure what an government inspection would find. I would suggest joining the Bentley Drivers club. I am not a member, but anyone with an old car should join that cars club. There will be people who can help you source parts or point you to mechanics in you region of the country to work on these cars. Edited April 11, 2023 by Cadillac Fan (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted April 11, 2023 Share Posted April 11, 2023 10 hours ago, Walt G said: we were all newbies once, those that are now giving advice had the same questions at one time BUT in my estimation when we got the advice ( 50 , 40, 30+ years ago??) we were more appreciative and let the person know who was helping us that they indeed made a difference for us, got us over the hurdle of a problem/issue. Today it seems more and more people expect an answer because what you have should belong to them too. ( but what effort have they made to do the same??) I think the age of instant information has been the cause of that, press a button or tap a key and there you are , now an educated "expert". Many of those of a certain vintage who are trying to be courteous and help here all learned from hands on experience - were guided by a learned friend step by step most of the time or had to read the instruction book, shop manual, Dyke's and Motor manuals to sort out the non working part. There was no "instant answer" this not only applies to solving a mechanical problem - artists drew images by hand- today you press a button for an image, author's researched information by looking in period material, periodicals , books, newspaper files etc that you had to go to the location to see and were not scanned to find on a screen. . As mentioned the time it takes to say think you to those who have helped provide and answer or surmount a problem is ignored now a lot of the time because the person who asked the question got his answer , that is all they wanted. The age of proper manners and courtesy has evaporated or dwindled and that I find very sad. BUT we do still have people who are appreciative and indeed take the time to say two words - thank you. End of rant # 567............................... But I will again say Thank You to AACA for providing us all with this place to contribute, vent, provide or just visit - If you are not a member step up and pay the dues to become one! you are taking advantage of what you see here almost everyday so skip the burger and fires one day and send in $ for dues . On the contrary Walt, I was never a newbie. I was driving a Bugatti at age 4. 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted April 11, 2023 Share Posted April 11, 2023 Never really had a newbie feeling myself. Helping Dad flip a Pontiac when I was about 9. That's a blurry Fanner 50 there. For persuasion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted April 12, 2023 Share Posted April 12, 2023 OP made one post on Sunday and came back once on Monday at 4:47. So, he got some opinions that he evidently didn't like and that was the end of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAKerry Posted April 12, 2023 Share Posted April 12, 2023 I consider myself a newbie on this forum, I think I have only been on for a couple of years now. I know a lot of people read and do not like to post. Im ok with that. For the op of this thread I like to give the benefit of the doubt, but yes there seems to be a pattern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted April 12, 2023 Share Posted April 12, 2023 With 3.2k posts in 2 years you are an old campaigner. With a right to your opinion, I agree with you, if you notice I gave OP the best advice I could before putting the knock in. If he comes back and gives me the razz I will have it coming. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted April 12, 2023 Share Posted April 12, 2023 3 hours ago, Rusty_OToole said: With 3.2k posts in 2 years you are an old campaigner. With a right to your opinion, I agree with you, if you notice I gave OP the best advice I could before putting the knock in. If he comes back and gives me the razz I will have it coming. Kerry has definitely become one of the active members of the forum. Any guy that owns a Trans Am is OK with me. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walt G Posted April 12, 2023 Share Posted April 12, 2023 7 minutes ago, alsancle said: Kerry has definitely become one of the active members of the forum And I am glad he is active . 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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