Tools to get our Antique Automobiles on the road and keep them running.

[Dandy Dave]

With tools in several places of discusion here lately I was thinking we should have a thread that explains what some of the tools back in the day did to keep our vintage vehicles running. This would help out folks that have never work with, or seen these older tools in use. This would really help anyone with a passion for the hobby but no idea about the tools that kept the motorized world running when these cars and trucks were new. 

I'll start off with this. It is a horse shoe Magnet Charger to charge the magnets on the magnetos many of our early cars used. I have charged magnets on it by hooking it to a 12 volt battery for power. To do so one needs to know the north and south side of the magnet. When the switch is put down once it will be in one polarity. Put the switch down a second time, it will reverse the polarity. Best to keep a compass handy to be sure the magnets are charged in the correct polarity. Usually the magnets have an "N" stamped in them for North.

 

Edited April 7, 2023 by Dandy Dave (see edit history)

[SC38dls]

The tool that is really necessary to have the most hands on fun working on a car also can provide the most frustrating times working on a car is the all important hand. Hands on is the best. But you really need three of them many times. 
dave s 

Edited March 1, 2023 by SC38dls (see edit history)

[1937hd45]

Where do both red wires go, and what do they do? I'll die not knowing how electricity works, but I read most post about it. I understand less the more I read. Bob 

[oldford]

Easy to remember Red on Right... 🤣

 

Frank

[28 Chrysler]

5 minutes ago, oldford said:

Easy to remember Red on Right... 🤣

 

Frank

Red is on the port side (left) Green is on the starboard side (right. The easy way to remember Port wine is red.

[28 Chrysler]

47 minutes ago, 1937hd45 said:

Where do both red wires go, and what do they do? I'll die not knowing how electricity works, but I read most post about it. I understand less the more I read. Bob 

The go on the battery posts to power the electromagnets.

[1937hd45]

This is a worthwhile chunk of scrap metal IMO, can you explain how it is made and what goes on in a working example, does the gizmo have a name? 

[rocketraider]

1 hour ago, 1937hd45 said:

 I'll die not knowing how electricity works

I used to explain it to young powerplant Operator trainees as "FM". F-ing Magic.

 

I understand electricity but have never completely understood how magneto ignition works. Tutorial please?

[Bloo]

That's a rabbit hole. I wish I understood it better than I do. There are a lot of various things called magnetos, but in its simplest form a magneto is not necessarily an ignition. It is an alternator with real magnets (not electromagnets) for the field, and thus no way to control the output. There are probably a million kinds of magneto, but to keep it simple there are about 3 classes of them: Low tension, High tension, and using a magneto as a generator to power some other king of ignition. The Model T ford falls into that last class, as it has buzz coils that can be powered by a battery.

 

That leaves 2 kinds, low tension and high tension. That just means low voltage or high voltage, so the Model T also falls into the low tension class technically. It isn't really the ignition system though, it just generates. The buzz coils and timer handle the ignition part.

 

A low tension magneto typically generates a low voltage that powers an ignition coil that is fired by points. That sounds very similar to a modern points and condenser ignition, and it's close, but might not work on exactly the same principle. The "Kettering" points and condenser ignition we all know and love wasn't even a thing until the late brass era, and even then it was just one of a bunch of competing ignition systems. A lot of the magic in a low tension magneto is timing. It isn't just spark timing, you typically adjust that from the steering wheel. The timing of the generated pulse of electricity that the magneto makes must be timed such that most of the energy goes to the coil at the right time, and then the relationship of the points timing to that pulse must be just right. It's all critical. This is most critical at low RPM or cranking. Some brass era units had a "hot shot" feature where you could add voltage from a battery (usually some dry cells) to help with starting. By the 20s these were replaced by "impulse drive" magnetos that wind up and snap just before each cylinder fires. This extra speed gets extra voltage for starting. Once the engine starts they switch to direct drive for normal running.

 

High tension magnetos are about the same as low tension except the high voltage for the spark plugs is generated directly by the coils in the magneto, there is no coil to step up the voltage.

 

Edited February 28, 2023 by Bloo (see edit history)

[1937hd45]

1 hour ago, rocketraider said:

I used to explain it to young powerplant Operator trainees as "FM". F-ing Magic.

 

I understand electricity but have never completely understood how magneto ignition works. Tutorial please?

That is how I look at it, like religion, nobody totally knows how to explain it. 

[60FlatTop]

I stayed away from things electrical. Only mechanical for a long time until I master pneumatic control. The digital age pushed its way in and I found an equivalent electrical/electronic matching component for all that stuff.

 

I used to teach trades and filled in for an adult ed instructor teaching circuits with parallel resistance. By chance the class was audited that night. After class the auditor said "I usually fall asleep doing this. That was exciting!"

 

Reminds me of another audited class on Manual J heat load calculations. The auditor told me it was a great class but there was something radically wrong with the example home. "It's mine I replied."

[Dandy Dave]

15 hours ago, 1937hd45 said:

This is a worthwhile chunk of scrap metal IMO, can you explain how it is made and what goes on in a working example, does the gizmo have a name? 

I have it marked - and +. I don't think it really matters which way the current flows in this unit but I like to keep the same polarity to keep it consistent. The two coils are essentially electro magnets. They would be considered "Low Tension" as they have a single winding on each coil. When you feed power to the charger it is energizing the electro magnets. Doing this realigns the molecules in the permanent magnet which have a north and south pole themselves. Essentially millions of molecules are being aligned to work together to form a permanent magnet . The magical part of this thing is the magnetic field reverses every time I hit the switch. That I cannot explain. Basically, when I have a permanent magnet to charge I have to flip the switch for a moment, disconnect, and switch it on for a few seconds. Then the magnet needs to be checked with a compass to be sure the poles are in the right polarity. The proper name for this gizmo is a "Magnet Charger." Anytime you have a magnet that you need charging come and see me Bob. I'll be glad to show you how this works first hand and charge your magnet for you.

Edited March 1, 2023 by Dandy Dave (see edit history)

[Dandy Dave]

Todays Tool Topic. Valve spring compressors. These are used to collapse a valve spring so the keepers that hold the valves and springs can be removed. Seems there is no end to different types and designs.

  

[Dandy Dave]

This one is pneumatic. Just need to plug it in an air compressor. 

 

[TAKerry]

Thanks Dave, I enjoy seeing the tools you post. Most if not all I have no idea what they are, let alone know what to do with them!

[DonMicheletti]

This is probably the most useful tool I have for those "unobtanium" parts

[Restorer32]

Hardest tool to find is the "round tuit".  You cannot do anything on an old car unless you get a "round tuit".

[John Kelso]

I would love to find a magneto magnet charger.

[MikeC5]

That's a nice looking lathe, Don.  South Bend Heavy 10" ?

[Twisted Shifter]

On 2/28/2023 at 6:49 AM, SC38dls said:

The tool that is really necessary to have the most hands on fun working on a car also can provide the most frustrating times working on a car is the all important hand. Hands on is the best. But you really need three of them many times. 
dave s 

That's probably why Rickie, here, isn't much help in the shop.

 

[Frank DuVal]

17 hours ago, Dandy Dave said:

I have it marked - and +. I don't think it really matters which way the current flows in this unit but I like to keep the same polarity to keep it consistent. The two coils are essentially electro magnets. They would be considered "Low Tension" as they have a single winding on each coil. When you feed power to the charger it is energizing the electro magnets. Doing this realigns the molecules in the permanent magnet which have a north and south pole themselves. Essentially millions of molecules are being aligned to work together to form a permanent magnet . The magical part of this thing is the magnetic field reverses every time I hit the switch.

Well, the reversing fields issue has to do with the field collapsing and making back EMF that flows in the opposite direction of the current supplied by the battery. There are discussions on this here internet that putting a large diode across the terminals will prevent this, as the back EMF will flow through the diode, path of least resistance. Same as the spike prevention diode on some DC relays used in cars or industrial control systems. Point the diode arrow towards the positive terminal! Then the N and S should not change and you will get maximum "charge" every time, as when it does the reversal it is fighting the charge you just added to the magnet.

 

I'm still trying to think how to build the magnet charger to fit a B&S flywheel. Building one to fit horseshoe magnets like yours is possible with some big round iron (less carbon the better) and iron blocks (and a lathe...).

[Dandy Dave]

4 hours ago, Frank DuVal said:

Well, the reversing fields issue has to do with the field collapsing and making back EMF that flows in the opposite direction of the current supplied by the battery. There are discussions on this here internet that putting a large diode across the terminals will prevent this, as the back EMF will flow through the diode, path of least resistance. Same as the spike prevention diode on some DC relays used in cars or industrial control systems. Point the diode arrow towards the positive terminal! Then the N and S should not change and you will get maximum "charge" every time, as when it does the reversal it is fighting the charge you just added to the magnet.

 

I'm still trying to think how to build the magnet charger to fit a B&S flywheel. Building one to fit horseshoe magnets like yours is possible with some big round iron (less carbon the better) and iron blocks (and a lathe...).

So EMF = Electro Motive Force. Sounds like this is what makes an AC (Alternating Current) Inductive Electric Motor Run.  

[Dandy Dave]

15 hours ago, DonMicheletti said:

This is probably the most useful tool I have for those "unobtanium" parts

Anyone with a prewar car, early brass era automobiles especially, will benefit from having machine tools and knowing how to use them. Machine tools are usually beyond the reach of beginners with no machining back ground. The great thing today is it is easier to learn as the internet is full of videos and information. I could not keep my old 1915 Buick, or many other autos and equipment running it it were not for my machine tools. Here's a photo of my Bridgeport 9 X 42 Vertical Milling machine, my 16" X 12' bed South Bend Lathe, and my 13" swing X 6' bed South Bend lathe,. Used machines are out there often at reasonable prices. The trick is to find ones that are not worn out.

 

 

Edited March 2, 2023 by Dandy Dave (see edit history)

[Dandy Dave]

11 hours ago, JAK said:

I would love to find a magneto magnet charger.

You can build one. 

 

 

Edited March 2, 2023 by Dandy Dave (see edit history)

[SC38dls]

Dave, I wouldn’t have to find any that were in good shape if you would just adopt me. I could learn on yours and use them!! 
dave s 

[Dandy Dave]

I've been thinking what tools would be best for a beginner? Some of this would hinge on what type and era of car they would be working on. Also, how deeply involved one would want to do their own work. A good place to start. Here's a list that will get the beginner started.

1. Combination wrench set 3/8th to 1-1/4. Also a metric set if you intend to work on post war foreign autos.

2. Socket sets. 1/4 drive, 3/8th drive, and 1/2. Standard and Metric. Standard and deep sockets for both.

3. A ballpeen hammer.

4. Oil filter wrench.

5. A Screw driver set.

[TAKerry]

4 minutes ago, Dandy Dave said:

I've been thinking what tools would be best for a beginner? Some of this would hinge on what type and era of car they would be working on. Also, how deeply involved one would want to do their own work. A good place to start. Here's a list that will get the beginner started.

1. Combination wrench set 3/8th to 1-1/4. Also a metric set if you intend to work on post war foreign autos.

2. Socket sets. 1/4 drive, 3/8th drive, and 1/2. Standard and Metric. Standard and deep sockets for both.

3. A ballpeen hammer.

4. Oil filter wrench.

5. A Screw driver set.

You pretty much nailed my tool box, LOL. 

Cabinet/carpenter tools on the other hand would fill a semi!

[oldford]

1 hour ago, Dandy Dave said:

I've been thinking what tools would be best for a beginner? Some of this would hinge on what type and era of car they would be working on. Also, how deeply involved one would want to do their own work. A good place to start. Here's a list that will get the beginner started.

1. Combination wrench set 3/8th to 1-1/4. Also a metric set if you intend to work on post war foreign autos.

2. Socket sets. 1/4 drive, 3/8th drive, and 1/2. Standard and Metric. Standard and deep sockets for both.

3. A ballpeen hammer.

4. Oil filter wrench.

5. A Screw driver set.

Don't forget band aids and Advil...😉

[DonMicheletti]

Mike C5 and Dave,

The South Bend is a Hreavy 10" tool room, I also have a 15" lathe and Bridgeport.

Yes finding one in at least fair shape is key. However many can be found at very reasonable prices. That was the case with my machines, bought from shops going out of business.

Also, where I went to high school, I could take machine shop as an elective - and I did for the 4 years. The shop classes were taught as if you were going to become a machinist, as some did. So I really learned how to use the machines correctly.

 

However my first machine was a South Bend 16" x 6' built in 1912 and was a converted overhead belt drive machine that was totally shot - it cost me $100. I learned how to work with the slop and I even machined the babbited  connecting rods that I poured myself for the 1931 Buick I was restoring.

 

I really like the machining challenges needed to keep the really old stuff going.

Edited March 2, 2023 by DonMicheletti (see edit history)

[60FlatTop]

My interest has always been in more modern cars. That was true65 years ago when I was 10 years old when I preferred the overlooked 15 year old late 1930's cars. And still true today when I look at a clean 20 year old car. The only old cars I have got old along with me.

 

I have always fixed the cars I owned and have studied them thoroughly. In a trade magazine from around 1940 I once saw an article that asked "If you had closed your shop doors in 1930 could you open them and start working with the equipment today?" It was a long time ago but the concept stuck with me.

 

Cars from the 1980s and 1990s are classified as antiques and some from early this century are already over 20 years old. They will need repair in the future just as those advance technology cars of the 1940s did.

 

I have seen the older hobbyist hold his hands up touching his fingertips to his thumbs saying "Mechanics don't need to know anything. The computer tells them what's wrong and they just replace parts." That ain't necessarily so. The computer provides insight into the car';s operation but it needs interpretation.

 

My tools are growing in the plug in diagnostic area. And there are great bargains on already obsolete scanners and deices of 15-30 years ago.

 

Probably my most important tool for my future is my beginning collection of really good college and trade school level textbooks. I read at least half an hour each night, sometimes more. It felt good a while back when I diagnosed an O2 sensor problem and replaced only the one that had a intermittent problem. I could have replaced them all or even two, but diagnosing the one and knowing why was more satisfying. That's why cars are my hobby.

 

New tools.

 

I should also note that I subscribe to this channel for $3.50 per month and really enjoy it.

 

https://schrodingersboxqm.com/videos/

Edited March 3, 2023 by 60FlatTop (see edit history)

[MikeC5]

Good stuff, Don.  I have a 1933 vintage South Bend 9" 'A' model but would eventually like to get something larger.  The 'A' is nothing fancy but it has come in mighty handy for many old Dodge projects.  A milling machine is also on the wish list.

Edited March 3, 2023 by MikeC5 (see edit history)

[DonMicheletti]

Often the machines dont have to be fancy to get the job done

[SC38dls]

Does my empty peanut butter jar qualify? I used it to wrap sand paper around as it was a perfect fit for the rounded fender curve. Nothing else I had fit the curve as well and I got to eat the peanut butter first! 
dave s 

[60FlatTop]

I bought my first set of Dura-Block sanding blocks a few years ago and was kind of surprised at the graphics.

 

More surprising was the sample bar of soap that came with it. Very good stuff! Since them my wife gives me four bars every Christmas to balance the Snap On socks I give her.

 

I have given bars of soap to friends. Even my doctor who was very impressed to get such a personal gift. He likes to work on his own car.

 

The Dura-Block soap is on Ebay, highly recommended.

 

[Dandy Dave]

On 3/2/2023 at 9:14 AM, Dandy Dave said:

I've been thinking what tools would be best for a beginner? Some of this would hinge on what type and era of car they would be working on. Also, how deeply involved one would want to do their own work. A good place to start. Here's a list that will get the beginner started.

1. Combination wrench set 3/8th to 1-1/4. Also a metric set if you intend to work on post war foreign autos.

2. Socket sets. 1/4 drive, 3/8th drive, and 1/2. Standard and Metric. Standard and deep sockets for both.

3. A ballpeen hammer.

4. Oil filter wrench.

5. A Screw driver set.

Thinking about it the last few days I would add,

6. Needle nose, and regular pliers.

7. Vice Grip pliers. Several pairs each of narrow nose. 2 regular width pairs. One with a straight jaw. One with a curved jaw.  

[Dandy Dave]

21 hours ago, 60FlatTop said:

My interest has always been in more modern cars. That was true65 years ago when I was 10 years old when I preferred the overlooked 15 year old late 1930's cars. And still true today when I look at a clean 20 year old car. The only old cars I have got old along with me.

 

I have always fixed the cars I owned and have studied them thoroughly. In a trade magazine from around 1940 I once saw an article that asked "If you had closed your shop doors in 1930 could you open them and start working with the equipment today?" It was a long time ago but the concept stuck with me.

 

Cars from the 1980s and 1990s are classified as antiques and some from early this century are already over 20 years old. They will need repair in the future just as those advance technology cars of the 1940s did.

 

I have seen the older hobbyist hold his hands up touching his fingertips to his thumbs saying "Mechanics don't need to know anything. The computer tells them what's wrong and they just replace parts." That ain't necessarily so. The computer provides insight into the car';s operation but it needs interpretation.

 

My tools are growing in the plug in diagnostic area. And there are great bargains on already obsolete scanners and deices of 15-30 years ago.

 

Probably my most important tool for my future is my beginning collection of really good college and trade school level textbooks. I read at least half an hour each night, sometimes more. It felt good a while back when I diagnosed an O2 sensor problem and replaced only the one that had a intermittent problem. I could have replaced them all or even two, but diagnosing the one and knowing why was more satisfying. That's why cars are my hobby.

 

New tools.

 

I should also note that I subscribe to this channel for $3.50 per month and really enjoy it.

 

https://schrodingersboxqm.com/videos/

Even some of the OBD2 stuff is now in the antique category. My 1990 Chevy Suburban is OBD1. It's 33 years old. Where did the time go?

[60FlatTop]

4 hours ago, Dandy Dave said:

Where did the time go?

Some days I feel like I never missed one minute of them. Like most days.

[mat777]

I'd vote to add to the list a set of feeler gauges, how many folks nowadays would know how to use them properly? Ditto for a set of tyre (tire) levers

[Dandy Dave]

10 hours ago, mat777 said:

I'd vote to add to the list a set of feeler gauges, how many folks nowadays would know how to use them properly? Ditto for a set of tyre (tire) levers

I was thinking about feeler gages a few days ago. Often when setting up end play in a shaft feeler gages will get you close. I usually use a Dial Indicator. It doesn't lie.

[60FlatTop]

13 hours ago, mat777 said:

how many folks nowadays would know how to use them properly?

Got me laughing. That seems to imply that folks in those days knew how to. I have a set in the back of the drawer that were loaned out to "He's got a lot of experience. You can learn a lot from him". All beaten and smashed for setting valves. And he ain't the only one of his ilk who brought back stuff broken. Historical fiction.