'25 Chevy won't start ----Solved!

[Leif in Calif]

I thought this problem and it's solution would be of interest. The Chevy was running fine but had been siting for a couple of months. It cranked fine but didn't fire at all. I had my wife watch the in line fuel filter and she said saw gas go through it up to the vacuum tank, so I figured "no spark." I checked and I had 6 volts to the coil, and then I took off the distributer cap and turned the engine over by hand. The rotor when around and the points opened and closed like I would expect. I didn't know a good way to check the spark at the plug (my wife won't hold the wire anymore after last time), so I gave up and had it towed to the local old car mechanic. He confirmed that there was actually good spark, so most likely fuel. Turned out that there was short length of rubber hose between the vacuum tank and the carb that had become hard as a rock. It was replaced during the last rebuild which was about 1998. Apparently it wasn't of the type of rubber currently used and the alcohol in all gas here in California attacked it and it plugged itself. Simple fix, once understood. 

I need to check to make sure that old style hose isn't anywhere else!  

[JFranklin]

It's time to leave California and move to a good State that allows real gasoline! 

[Leif in Calif]

55 minutes ago, JFranklin said:

It's time to leave California and move to a good State that allows real gasoline! 

This got me wondering...based on an article I found in Hemmings, only seven states--Louisiana, Minnesota, Missouri, Montana, Oregon, Pennsylvania, and Washington--have mandates that require ethanol to be blended with the fuel supply. Apparently many more (including California) have requirements related to smog that are easiest for refiners to meet by adding ethanol to the gas. Learning a little more every day (one of the benefits of ignorance!)  

[TTR]

20 hours ago, Leif in Calif said:

... length of rubber hose between the vacuum tank and the carb that had become hard as a rock. It was replaced during the last rebuild which was about 1998.

Glad you found the cause and got it fixed, but with all due respect, to expect any automotive-use rubber (or equivalent) hose or product, regardless of application, year/make/model of vehicle it's being used on or the location of said vehicle on this planet to provide practical service life beyond 10 or so years just defies logic and common sense, especially of products used for chemical delivery and/or safety related components

And using that common sense approach, any such product in use over 10 years should automatically be considered past it "replace by" date, but even more so if said component's actual DOM is unknown, since who knows how many years or even decades it might've sat on some warehouse shelf and possibly have it's practical/safe life expectancy already "expired" by the time of purchase and initial installation.

But yes, use of ethanol and other chemicals will also shorten the life expectancy of fuel related hoses, especially those manufactured prior to introduction of such to fuels produced today.

Quite simple, once understood.

Edited November 4, 2022 by TTR (see edit history)

[DFeeney]

Just because the points open and close doesn't mean they have continuity when closed,  They could have a film on them.  Put a test light on the incoming side of the points with the ignition on.   When the points are closed the light is off.  Pull the points open and the light should  come back on.

[Leif in Calif]

5 hours ago, TTR said:

Glad you found the cause and got it fixed, but with all due respect, to expect any automotive-use rubber (or equivalent) hose or product, regardless of application, year/make/model of vehicle it's being used on or the location of said vehicle on this planet to provide practical service life beyond 10 or so years just defies logic and common sense, especially of products used for chemical delivery and/or safety related components

And using that common sense approach, any such product in use over 10 years should automatically be considered past it "replace by" date, but even more so if said component's actual DOM is unknown, since who knows how many years or even decades it might've sat on some warehouse shelf and possibly have it's practical/safe life expectancy already "expired" by the time of purchase and initial installation.

But yes, use of ethanol and other chemicals will also shorten the life expectancy of fuel related hoses, especially those manufactured prior to introduction of such to fuels produced today.

Quite simple, once understood.

A lot of good advice here but I think there are quite a few cars on the road that are way over 10 years old with original lines. I am going to look for other lines on this particular vehicle and replace them all.  

[TTR]

1 hour ago, Leif in Calif said:

... I think there are quite a few cars on the road that are way over 10 years old with original lines. 

I don't doubt that at all, just like "there are quite a few cars on the road" with less than ideal or safe brakes, steering/suspension, tires, etc. 😉

[Rusty_OToole]

If you look in the distributor and the points are coated in white fur chances are they won't work until you clean them. They get corroded if a car sits around for a long time.

[Marty Roth]

7 minutes ago, Rusty_OToole said:

If you look in the distributor and the points are coated in white fur chances are they won't work until you clean them. They get corroded if a car sits around for a long time.

I got into the habit of running a matchbook cover (showing my age?) between the contacts of the points for cars that have been sitting a period of time.

I also have a Points File here somewhere, but sometimes forget where I left it last time I used it.

[Bloo]

1 hour ago, TTR said:

I don't doubt that at all, just like "there are quite a few cars on the road" with less than ideal or safe brakes, steering/suspension, tires, etc. 😉

 

Add to that the fact that the fuel hose everyone used on carbureted cars up through the 90s or so was utter crap, and was commonly known to come in for service squirting gas out through pinholes in the hose. It is really a wonder there weren't more fires.

 

I'll only use 30R9 fuel injection hose these days, regardless of how low the pressure is. Yes it's expensive and a little hard to work with, but it it in stock almost everywhere today. It is lined, and is rated for a whole bunch of different fuels, including alcohol.

 

[JFranklin]

4 hours ago, Bloo said:

 

Add to that the fact that the fuel hose everyone used on carbureted cars up through the 90s or so was utter crap, and was commonly known to come in for service squirting gas out through pinholes in the hose. It is really a wonder there weren't more fires.

 

 

I believe with the advent of e-10 and this type of rubber, the govt. initiated the cash for clunkers, just for that reason.

[Leif in Calif]

15 hours ago, Marty Roth said:

I got into the habit of running a matchbook cover (showing my age?) between the contacts of the points for cars that have been sitting a period of time.

I also have a Points File here somewhere, but sometimes forget where I left it last time I used it.

I actually did that....

[tsherry]

Fun fact: Older fuel lines that are not ethanol safe can also separate 'inside' at the nylon reinforcing. The outer shell looks fine; the inner shell, softened and not attached to either the nylon or the outer shell, will suck shut under vacuum from the engine. 

 

So far I've replaced lines on four of my old cars, from the fuel tank all the way to the pump. 

[Tonz]

In Australia most fuel outlets have Unleaded 98, 95, 91, then E10, and the diesels at each bouser.

The price varies about 20c/litre from the U98 down to the E10. So the choice is up to the consumer

In my 26 Chrysler I'm running U91 with a dose of Valveshield and all is happy so far.

All these Australian fuels only last a few 6 months, after that your tank, fuel lines and carb are coated with a green crystalline substance that requires cleaning.

I never use E10 even on my 2008 Holden V6 quad cam vvt EFI ecotech car ... Yet alone my 97 year old Chrysler.

 

As for testing if you have spark or not, whip out a plug spin motor and  see if it is actually sparking. Lots of things can go south between the coil wire and the plug electrode 👍

[hidden_hunter]

41 minutes ago, Tonz said:

In Australia most fuel outlets have Unleaded 98, 95, 91, then E10, and the diesels at each bouser.

The price varies about 20c/litre from the U98 down to the E10. So the choice is up to the consumer

In my 26 Chrysler I'm running U91 with a dose of Valveshield and all is happy so far.

All these Australian fuels only last a few 6 months, after that your tank, fuel lines and carb are coated with a green crystalline substance that requires cleaning.

I never use E10 even on my 2008 Holden V6 quad cam vvt EFI ecotech car ... Yet alone my 97 year old Chrysler.

Even then, E10 is mostly a NSW/QLD thing - only been fairly recent that you even see it in Victoria. I just put normal 91 in my Cadillac and the Golf gets 98 

 

I'm surprised that the Chev had a rubber fuel line in 25, wouldn't it have originally been metal? 

 

43 minutes ago, Tonz said:

As for testing if you have spark or not, whip out a plug spin motor and  see if it is actually sparking. Lots of things can go south between the coil wire and the plug electrode 👍

You can also make a test light that turns on when the points are in firing position, I made one with a long enough cable that I could see it while cranking the car over

[Roger Zimmermann]

On 11/5/2022 at 1:05 AM, Rusty_OToole said:

If you look in the distributor and the points are coated in white fur chances are they won't work until you clean them. They get corroded if a car sits around for a long time.

It happens to me some years ago when my '56 Cad Biarritz would not start after sleeping for 6 or more months.

[Gronk]

I had to laugh about the ol' lady, Sorry, but thank you , I needed a laff

[Frank DuVal]

On 1/12/2023 at 3:28 PM, Tonz said:

n Australia most fuel outlets have Unleaded 98, 95, 91, then E10, and the diesels at each bouser.

Here in the US, most all stations are unleaded E10 with some having E15 and E85! There are more stations now having ONE octane E0 available. Very few have two E0 offerings. I can only see one of these within 60 miles of my house. Of course I have to drive to another county to get E0, not allowed for sale here due to not having passed an EPA attainment test 30 years ago or so. We do pass the EPA test in this county, but the state will not allow E0 to be sold here, or do away with biannual emission testing. 🙁

[EmTee]

E85 is popular at the local dragstrip. 

[Frank DuVal]

Right. The only issue is E85 at the pump is "up to 85% ethanol", so the dragstrip people pay the money for real  E85 that is actual 85% ethanol.

[Mark Gregush]

On 11/4/2022 at 5:15 PM, Marty Roth said:

I got into the habit of running a matchbook cover (showing my age?) between the contacts of the points for cars that have been sitting a period of time.

I also have a Points File here somewhere, but sometimes forget where I left it last time I used it.

I am only 66, using a matchbook is how I was shown to do it. 

[Marty Roth]

On 1/12/2023 at 2:28 PM, Tonz said:

In Australia most fuel outlets have Unleaded 98, 95, 91, then E10, and the diesels at each bouser.

The price varies about 20c/litre from the U98 down to the E10. So the choice is up to the consumer

In my 26 Chrysler I'm running U91 with a dose of Valveshield and all is happy so far.

All these Australian fuels only last a few 6 months, after that your tank, fuel lines and carb are coated with a green crystalline substance that requires cleaning.

I never use E10 even on my 2008 Holden V6 quad cam vvt EFI ecotech car ... Yet alone my 97 year old Chrysler.

 

As for testing if you have spark or not, whip out a plug spin motor and  see if it is actually sparking. Lots of things can go south between the coil wire and the plug electrode 👍

Cost-wise, $0.20 AUS equates to $0.13832/ Litre

3.78541 Litres equates to one (1) US Gallon

so, the equivalent additional cost expressed in US Dollars would be $0.5235979,

or just under 52.4 cents (US/Gallon)

 

Well worth the benefit in my estimation-

and I pay at least that much and more for the benefit of N0-Ethanol, not only for my vintage vehicles, but also for my modern drivers.

 

Thank you @Tonz

Edited January 20, 2023 by Marty Roth (see edit history)

[hidden_hunter]

34 minutes ago, Marty Roth said:

Cost-wise, $0.20 AUS equates to $0.13832/ Litre

3.78541 Litres equates to one (1) US Gallon

so, the equivalent additional cost expressed in US Dollars would be $0.5235979,

or just under 52.4 cents (US/Gallon)

E10 isn't even that widely available in the Southern states, it's mostly NSW and QLD that have it 

 

I am sus that some servo's give you mislabled E10, we had some in the Buick that put the green tint through everything - surprisingly this snake oil cleaned it all out https://www.liquimoly.com.au/2772-fuel-system-cleaner-conditioner

[Marty Roth]

7 hours ago, Mark Gregush said:

I am only 66, using a matchbook is how I was shown to do it. 

Speaking of matchbooks, they’re not all that common anymore. I used to have a very large collection, many of which came from restaurants, diners, hotels during my travels as an IT consultant, and as a professional musician. Most of the collection is gone, but I grabbed a few from some band performances.

Edited January 21, 2023 by Marty Roth (see edit history)