Duck Tape on Hubcaps ?

[MrY]

Has ANYONE put duck tapes on hubcaps to avoid ugly scratched on you newly painted wheels ?

I will give it a try and hopefully the caps doesn't fly off .....

also put the white wall on the outside of the tire which I think looks better

don't know why the previously owner put it on the inside ?

[The 55er]

I'd rather have scratched wheels than a lost hubcap. 

[NTX5467]

Perhaps, a thin coat of paint that will not glob up rather than a normal "body part" paint thickness might not let the scratches be quite so noticeable?  Plus limiting the area of "thick paint" on hubcap wheels might be an option too?

 

Good luck!

 

NTX5467

[195354]

I know someone that has done the duct tape on a full disc hubcap. This is on a 53 Chevrolet not a fine Buick car.

This why I have done the duct tape. finished the car and  Left front hubcap has stayed on for a few years then I noticed a vibration in the left front wheel. Did what everyone would do checked balance of tire it  was OK.  Then the hub cap started flying off, darn things go faster after they fly off. I then play were is Waldo. Only lost one cap to date I have found the others. This is what I have done to locate and hopefully repair the problem. Moved wheels and tires and used other hub caps. Still had the vibration  left front wheel and hub cap issue.  You can see the fender start to shake. Cap will rotate and pinch valve stem then later fly off.  I then changed tires changed wheels changed wheel hub, replaced shocks. Not much of a change. Last resort wrapped wheel at contact area for cap with duct tape then added tape to cap.  Tough to install but It has worked so far. Cap will still rotate but has not departed. I still have a vibration in the left front wheel. I can just start to fell it about 50 MPH in the floor now. Starting to think this is the torque tube vibrating and transferring forward. Any thoughts in the Buick world how to fix this issue. 

Duct tape expert 

Steve 

[MrY]

if the hubcaps fly off I would try to bend the tabs on the hupcaps .... they might be too loose

- my 2 cents

[195354]

Have bent them to the point the cap will hardly go on. Used rubber mallet and drive them on the teeth on the cap bite hard on the wheel. 

The other tree wheels work great. 

Steve 

[Barney Eaton]

Your main problem may be the hub caps are aftermarket and do not have the engineering and test development put into factory units. 

Many years ago I had a similar problem with aftermarket caps and finally got different hub caps. 

Little details like the type of material used for the retainer tabs, design of the tab and even the heat treat can all contribute to the problem

[195354]

OEM caps are on this 

have used different OEM caps  and same results

They are tight going on and hard to remove 

The vibration  is the root cause l believe

 

l have never trouble shot a torque tube vibration before starting to think that could be an issue  starting to feel vibration in the floor now 

Steve

 

 

 

 

[drhach]

I think the logic behind those hubcaps is that they are supposed to dig in to the metal a little bit. Kind of like a star washer on a screw. If you're preventing that, you're defeating the main holding mechanism for the cap. 

[The 55er]

Was discussed on here before........use a bead of clear silicone around the wheel where the hubcap teeth bite. Worked for me on a 53 Pontiac full wheelcover that didn't like to stay on, it hasn't come off for several years now. 

[old-tank]

More than likely the wheel is flexing.

[NTX5467]

YES!  The culprit is wheel flex, of all things!  First learned of that on our then-newer '66 Newport.  The lh front wheel cover, and ONLY that one, would move and flex the valve stem.  Even had travel limiter nubs on the wheel and wheel cover, but they did not work.  So I had to check to see if the cover had turned enough to flex the valve stem every so often.  What I finally did was to remove the valve stem extension from that valve stem and install the wheel cover 180 degrees out from the valve stem.  No contact, no valve stem flex, no issues in that respect.  This was with the OEM Goodyear bias-ply tires and the later BFG bias-belted tires, too.

 

And yes, while making a quick turn at about 35mph, the lh frt wheel cover went off into the weede somewhere.  Had to get a new one!

 

Enjoy!

NTX5467

[5219]

I owned a 1966 Impala Supersport that had the OEM wire wheel covers. The car had modern radial tires on it. The wheels had so much flex that at low speeds you could hear the wheel covers going crunch, crunch, crunch as the wheels turned. They never came off, but they would "walk" around the wheel. The hole for the valve stem would move in relation to the stem. Before every drive, I used to tighten up those wheel covers with a rubber mallet. Somebody told me that the cure was to put duct tape between the wheel and the teeth on the wheel cover. I never tried it, but it does make sense.

[195354]

I have thought about wheel flex but just the left front wheel has the issue. The other wheels never are an issue move caps and wheels too different positions still just the left front.

The vibration is the cause l believe. About 50 mph the top of the fender starts vibrating. What is odd it doesn’t do it all the time would like to figure this out. It’s not vibrating the complete car mainly the fender. This winter going after the issue. Just started to feel the vibe in the floor last few trips so what ever it is it’s getting worse. Engine runs smooth could it be a torque tube issue don’t have oil leaking into the differential.  

With  an open driveline angle is a big deal how about a torque tube car. Any advice on troubleshooting will be appreciated 

 

Steve

[EmTee]

8 hours ago, 195354 said:

...but just the left front wheel has the issue.

Try moving it to the other side.  If the issue moves, there's something wrong with that wheel or tire.  If it stays on the LF, then look at wheel bearings, and surrounding suspension parts.

[JohnD1956]

Assuming this is on a 1954 ? And assuming the king pins have been checked on the left front?  I would start by making sure the upper and lower A frame connecting bolts are secure. Same with the tie rod ends and maybe the adjustment on the drivers side center link end. I would also look for any sign the rivits on the cross member on that side are loose. Fine rust powder or visible scrape marks around the rivit heads. Also, I would consider checking the drivers side engine mount bolts as well as the mount itself. 

I tend to doubt the drive shaft or torque tube is involved here. 

[old-tank]

Brske drum out of balance!

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

13 minutes ago, old-tank said:

Brske drum out of balance!

 

 Fat thumb, Tank?

 

  Ben

[195354]

I want to thank every one for all the great suggestions on my issue.  The forum  has  a great knowledge base and everyone pitches in. 

I don't know if this needs a new thread for my problem. I have been in the Chevrolet  forum with this issue great help with some things to check but it is still an issue. So I thought I would try here. I seen one one post in the Chevrolet forum rear spring sag caused a vibration, but this was the complete car not focused in one area like my issue. 

 

Here is what I have tried and a bit of background. Vibration remains at the left front fender, you can see it start to vibrate around 50Mph and feel it to some degree in the floor. You do not feel it in the steering. This has factory power steering. Car is  a 1953 all stock 235 balanced at rebuild runs smooth. 12 years since completion  New or repaired everything body and engine  mounts drive train and front end gone through the only thing reused is  front & rear springs.
Around 12K on the clock in the last 12 years issue started about two years ago and it is getting worse.   

This is what I have done in the last year

Checked for loose hardware and front end items 

I have moved wheels and tires and caps around

Has newer wheels not the factory wheels but the caps fit good

Replaced tires due to age no change

Replaced front shocks 

Replaced brake drum and hub  I have a parts stash 

Replaced wheel bearings at hub replacement did find pitting in race

Items I plan on doing this winter 

Replace engine mounts rubber looks to be cracking

Research balancer repair and have new rubber installed. No  issue in this area. With the age on this trying to prevent issue. 

Research ride height front and rear rear looks just a bit  low in my opinion  when looking at the car. 

 

Thanks for any help

Steve  

 

 

 

[Barney Eaton]

Replace the car and see if the problem goes away   

[old-tank]

If you verify that the brake drum is balanced, then have the tires "road force balanced".

[195354]

Be hard to do 

Purchased in 1974 first car, year latter old enough to start driving. Did the hot rod thing held on to this car

 

Driving a Chevrolet and Roadmaster of the same year it is amazing to me the difference in the drive, Buick quite an improvement

Steve

[EmTee]

8 hours ago, 195354 said:

Vibration remains at the left front fender, you can see it start to vibrate around 50Mph and feel it to some degree in the floor. You do not feel it in the steering.

This is an interesting description.  My interpretation is that at about 50 mph the left front fender begins to vibrate.  It's not felt in the steering wheel, so I say that means it isn't anything to do with the wheel or suspension.  It is felt to some degree in the floor, which would make sense if the fender is fluttering and the vibration is being transmitted through the fender mounts at the cowl.  So, I'm left thinking it must be an issue with the fender mounting to the car.  Maybe bolts and/or brackets are loose or missing?  Aerodynamic forces set up a resonance that begins at about 50 mph.  That's all I can imagine given the description and the list of items that have already been tried and ruled-out.  I'm leaning toward bolts and or mount bushings loose or missing since the problem has been getting progressively worse over the last two years.  That would be consistent with something working loose.  It seems to be body related rather than suspension.  At this point I'm guessing the hubcap problem is a separate issue...

[61polara]

9 hours ago, 195354 said:

I want to thank every one for all the great suggestions on my issue.  The forum  has  a great knowledge base and everyone pitches in. 

I don't know if this needs a new thread for my problem. I have been in the Chevrolet  forum with this issue great help with some things to check but it is still an issue. So I thought I would try here. I seen one one post in the Chevrolet forum rear spring sag caused a vibration, but this was the complete car not focused in one area like my issue. 

 

Here is what I have tried and a bit of background. Vibration remains at the left front fender, you can see it start to vibrate around 50Mph and feel it to some degree in the floor. You do not feel it in the steering. This has factory power steering. Car is  a 1953 all stock 235 balanced at rebuild runs smooth. 12 years since completion  New or repaired everything body and engine  mounts drive train and front end gone through the only thing reused is  front & rear springs.
Around 12K on the clock in the last 12 years issue started about two years ago and it is getting worse.   

This is what I have done in the last year

Checked for loose hardware and front end items 

I have moved wheels and tires and caps around

Has newer wheels not the factory wheels but the caps fit good

Replaced tires due to age no change

Replaced front shocks 

Replaced brake drum and hub  I have a parts stash 

Replaced wheel bearings at hub replacement did find pitting in race

Items I plan on doing this winter 

Replace engine mounts rubber looks to be cracking

Research balancer repair and have new rubber installed. No  issue in this area. With the age on this trying to prevent issue. 

Research ride height front and rear rear looks just a bit  low in my opinion  when looking at the car. 

 

Thanks for any help

Steve  

 

 

 

Please start a new thread if you want answers

[61polara]

Duct tape on the rim of a hub cap was usually done to prevent a hubcap from coming off on the road.  This usually happens when radial tires are mounted on rims designed for bias ply tires.  The additional flexing of the radial tire would cause additional flex in the rim and the hubcap would rotate of fly off.  New rims or bias ply tires will fix this or stick with the duct tape or silicone to keep the hubcaps on.

[old-tank]

2 hours ago, 61polara said:

usually happens when radial tires are mounted on rims designed for bias ply tires.

Source for that ?

[NTX5467]

As I recall, the issue of radial tires causing or worsening wheel flex seems to be more centered with the 1940s and earlier 1950s cars, as I recall.  One of our former members had such a Buick that he installed radial tires on, with the wheel covers not wanting to stay installed after that.  Not just a single happening, but several happenings.

 

I recall reading, back in the middle 1960s when radials were coming into vogue, that they had some harmonics in them which peaked in the 45mph area, which evidenced themselves with higher impact harshness on chuck-holes and such, but by 55mph, those harmonics were "past" and a smoooother ride resulted on the highway.  I remember reading one Goodyear customer's account of such on his Dodge Coronet convertible, where the G-800 (?) European Goodyear radials caused the rh front bucket seat to vibrate at highway speeds, such that he had to re-torque the seat mounting bolts.  So, I suspect that each type of radial has its own unique harmonics which interact with the car they are installed on, in different ways.  Obviously, unit-body cars are different from body-frame cars, too!

 

In the 1980s+ when the wheel flex on earlier wheels was being talked about, it was "one of those things" which seemed to affect some more than others.  No mention of brand of tires, just "radial tires" in general.  It also seemed to happpen after the introduction of the higher-pressure P-metric tires, as I recall.  Due to their cost, I suspect most of the issues were with non-Michelin-brand tires, due to their cost and not everybody desiring to spend that much money on tires for a limited-use vehicle.

 

So, I'm going to suspect that wheel flex is not a universal issue with all bias-ply-rated wheels (IF there is such a thing), but the interactions of wheel diameter, wheel width, and the tires mounted on them.  On our '66 Chrysler Newport, it was going on in the later 1960s and apparently had been happening for a while.  The wheel size was 14x5.5, fwiw.

 

So perhaps wheel flex had been around for quite a while, just that what was there with bias-ply tires was intensified a bit with radials, or even bias-belted tires.  Perhaps a key issue is the height of the nubs on the wheel rim adjacent to the valve stem?  On the Chrysler wheel, they were there as were similar travel limiters on the wheel covers, BUT when I bent those travel limiters out a bit, the wheel covers still turned past them, so their contacting each other was not happening.  With both the standard Newport wheel covers  and the later New Yorker wheel covers I put on it.  On that car, it was just the lh frt wheel, even after the wheels/tires had been rotated.  Just another mystery to tolerate rather than keep seeking to permanently fix, it seems!

 

I recall many threads in here on members installing radial tires on their vintage Buicks and enjoying the smoother highway ride and better handling characteristics.  No universal mention of wheel flex per se, but possibly some cautions of watching out for it.

 

In my case on the Chrysler, as mentioned, the wheels had the short valve stems and needed the popular valve stem extensions on them, which poked through the openning for them in the wheel covers.  I removed the extension and turned the wheel cover enough so that the valve stem and the hole in the wheel cover were far enough away from each other so they could co-exist peacefully.  No big issue to pop the wheel cover off to check the tire pressure, either.  And that was that.

 

Now, after I did that, to me, there was no real need to mark the wheel cover and wheel to see if the wheel cover continued to rotate in the wheel.  At that point, the main issue was wheel cover retention to the wheel and that's all I worried about.

 

As a side issue, it always ran the tire pressures in the front wheels at 30psi.  MORE variables!

 

Just some recollections and exoeriences,

NTX5467 

[old-tank]

On 9/16/2022 at 10:45 PM, old-tank said:

On 9/16/2022 at 8:03 PM, 61polara said:

usually happens when radial tires are mounted on rims designed for bias ply tires.

Source for that ?

Found it on the internet?

[61polara]

2 hours ago, old-tank said:

Found it on the internet?

I think NTX5467 summed it up very well.

[old-tank]

On 9/17/2022 at 7:40 AM, NTX5467 said:

So, I'm going to suspect that wheel flex is not a universal issue with all bias-ply-rated wheels (IF there is such a thing), but the interactions of wheel diameter, wheel width, and the tires mounted on them.

 

31 minutes ago, 61polara said:

I think NTX5467 summed it up very well.

I would like actual controlled test results.

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

3 minutes ago, old-tank said:

 

I would like actual controlled test results.

 

 Picky, picky.🤪

 Ben

[61polara]

7 hours ago, old-tank said:

 

I would like actual controlled test results.

So would I, as well as actual controlled tests showing that bias ply tires are unsafe.  No more discussion on this.

[NTX5467]

I highly suspect that ALL of us have done some flaky things while driving on bias-ply tires that we lived to tell about, obviously.  BUT that was back then when there were "good/better/best" bias-ply tires as well as some you didn't really trust after 12K miles of use.  Our Exxon service station operative called them "maypops".  Once, a customer came in to get a new set of Exxon Atlas bias-ply tires.  He said the tread was "unsafe" according to the wear indicators when inflated on the wheel, but when the tire was dismounted, it had deeper tread on it.  "Balloon tires"?

 

Enjoy!

NTX5467

[Gene Brink]

Believe Old Tank, and others, nailed what is causing the problem. Wheel flex. Based on my experience with a '68 Pontiac Tempest with the same problem I know for certain the front wheels ONLY flexed with repeated instances of the right front hubcap dismounting during left hand (only) turns. Rotating tires did NOT make any difference still the right front only dismounted during turns. Front left hubcap did rotate eventually bending the valve stem enough so it was no longer accessible without removing the hubcap. Guessing this is the result of more weight on the front than the rear.

 

This condition was present with two sets of radials over several years. You could hear the hubcaps creaking and popping when turning. Only lost hubcaps when driving on surface streets - never on the highway and was always able to find the hubcap after stopping (although a bit beat up - at least never run over by another driver). Tried duct tape and RTV without success. When I got the car it had bias ply belted tires and did not have this problem at all (stuck with the radials as the car drove better with them).

 

Good luck finding a solution.

[Lab64Skylarkragtop]

Lots of great information here. My 64 Skylark was my first car in 87. It was my daily driver for about 10 years and it’s a miracle I never lost the hubcaps. They came off all the time when going around turns. I still got them along with all the dents from banging them back onto the wheels. I recently bought some used rims because they were wider and allowed me to put on the wider. BF goodrich tires that I wanted. I’m wondering if I will avoid the old wheel versus new tire flex issue but I don’t know if these wider wheels are new enough? I was thinking of trying the silicone idea, but doing a bead all the way around the perimeter of the hubcap. It might give a little shine, but it’s better than losing a hubcap. That way, I could just razor blade them off when needed. Any thoughts?