A Possible BCA Museum st the Gilmore?

[Jack Welch]

The BCA BOD has unamimouly voted to pursue the feasibility of Building a BCA Museum at the Gilmore complex in Hickory Corners MI.

It is hoped that a Museum building would provide the opportunity for BCA members to host meets and it would be a venue for attracting new members from the exposure we would get by teaming up with the Gilmore in this growing automotive destination. BCA member comments are encouraged. A committee has been created to study member interest and financial feasibility. The committee is chaired by Bob Starzyk . Bob can be reached by email at 56buick@att.net.  Clubs already having a presence at the Gilmore include the Cadillac LaSalle Club, The Ford Model A Club and The Classic Car Club of America. 

A promotional display will be at the BCA National Meet in Lisle IL This will include a flyer and at least one 3d concept model of what a Buick museum could look like.

[dship]

My opinion would be to tap into the experiences of the Cadillac and LaSalle Club (and others) that went through this process...don't start from scratch.

[Terry Wiegand]

I have been to The Gilmore Museum on several occasions.  It has been upgraded and added to a whole lot since we were there the last time.  This is truly a world class facility.  The Horseless Carriage Club is planning a very nice presence also.  I personally hope that the Board of Directors for Gilmore will look long and hard before they allow a hot rod club to get entrenched at this venue.  This is just not the place for modified's, hot rods, and the likes of vehicles that the above named organization throw their arms around.  If I have offended anyone in the named group you are just going to have to get over it.  

 

Terry Wiegand

Antique Automobile Club Life Member

Horseless Carriage Club Life Member

Brass Era Buick Owner

[trimacar]

Not to mention Franklin, Pierce-Arrow, and HCCA museums.  It a great place with a lot of activities.

 

From a financial standpoint, such museums need to have good benefactors and contributors.  Not only for building cost and maintenance, but for acquisitions and Gilmore fees…..

 

It would be great to have Buick represented there

[Centurion]

On 6/12/2022 at 1:22 PM, trimacar said:

Not to mention Franklin, Pierce-Arrow, and HCCA museums.  It a great place with a lot of activities.

 

From a financial standpoint, such museums need to have good benefactors and contributors.  Not only for building cost and maintenance, but for acquisitions and Gilmore fees…..

 

It would be great to have Buick represented there

I agree that it would be great to have Buick represented there.  My only question / concern is the implication for the Buick Gallery and Research Center of the Sloan Museum in Flint and the Buick Heritage Alliance collections at the AACA Museum in Hershey.  Personally, I like the idea of a single, world-class museum for the Buick automobile, and I think that the Gilmore complex is most impressive.  

 

I would not wish to weaken the stature of the Sloan Museum as a principal repository of significant Buick automobiles and literature.  If the BCA throws its support behind a new Buick museum at the Gilmore, will there be sufficient assets and significant cars for both the Sloan and the Gilmore Buick museums -- both in the state of Michigan -- to succeed at the level that we hope they will?  . . . Perhaps this will be a non-issue, but I wanted to raise the point.

 

Might the Buick Heritage Alliance transfer its assets to a new museum at the Gilmore?  I think that would be a positive step.

 

I'm proud of the Buick automobile, and I want history to acknowledge the brand's consequential role in the American automotive industry.  I'm supportive of any effort that promotes Buick history.

Edited June 16, 2022 by Centurion (see edit history)

[B Jake Moran]

Gilmore will want a contract that favors them. With membership numbers down for the BCA and all clubs this would be a cost that could limit club efficacy in projects like the Bugle quality, which is cited as the main reason BCA Members join and maintain membership.  
 

Gilmore is a business. It’s not entirely philanthropic I’m not even sure it’s a non profit.  It’s a great asset and phenomenal grounds for what it represents. I loved my visit.  But in another old car club I was in, they looked into a "relationship" with the Gilmore for a similar "home base" club museum and quickly found it was not feasible.  

Edited June 16, 2022 by B Jake Moran (see edit history)

[Larry Schramm]

In my opinion, not that it means anything, but I would vote to spend the money in Flint in connection with The Sloan Museum. 

 

They are just completing a $30 Million dollar renovation that about doubled the size of the museum.  I have seen the museum during construction and it is extremely impressive.  

 

I would think that putting historical Buick resources at one location would be a strategic move that would be beneficial to the Buick fan community.  Plus the library at the Gilmore is kind of small compared to The Sloan & AACA at Hershey.

[Brian_Heil]

The BCA has Centennial Awards bought, and paid for, and in a storage room, but then the Board voted to discontinue the program of handing them out, but now, this same board is going to get in the museum business?

[Jack Welch]

Brian: The BCA handed out 5 Centennial awards at the National Meet in Lisle. your info about the BOD not giving them out is not entirely correct. Thay now have to be shown to receive an award.

Edited July 7, 2022 by Jack Welch (see edit history)

[Jack Welch]

The Feasibility study of a possible museum at Gilmore is in its infancy. The BOD presented the idea at the membership meeting at the Lisle National meet and had a signup up sheet for member supporting the idea and wanting to be kept in the loop. There was a lot of interest, some "I am not sure" members and no naysayers. We are a long way from a decision and even further away from fund raising (if that happens at all) . We do have support from the BHA for a Gilmore location. They would not be moving their assets from Hershey,  as the AACA Library is just that, a Library,  and the BHA literature belongs in the wonderful facility that the AACA library is. What the current BOD is considering is a Museum only. We have had discussions with Cadillac LaSalle Museum Board members, as well as CCCA Museum Board members in determining the feasibility of a  Buick Museum. As to other comments, It is true that the Gilmore location would not work for all Clubs, the question is will it work for the BCA. Thanks to all for their comments. 

[Larry Schramm]

2 hours ago, Jack Welch said:

Brian: The BCA handed out 5 Centennial awards at the National Meet in Lisle. your info about the BOD not giving them out is not entirely correct. Thay now have to be shown to receive an award.

 

Jack,

That is a change from the vote to discontinue the program when I was on the board.  That motion by Mike Book to discontinue the program and the vote of if I remember correctly of 7 to 1 to discontinue had scheduled to have the program discontinued about now.

 

On 6/21/2022 at 9:38 PM, Brian_Heil said:

The BCA has Centennial Awards bought, and paid for, and in a storage room, but then the Board voted to discontinue the program of handing them out, but now, this same board is going to get in the museum business?

 

Edited July 7, 2022 by Larry Schramm (see edit history)

[Jack Welch]

Larry: As it turns out, you are partially correct. I do stand corrected on this . The exact BOD action from the minutes is:  

Mike has rewritten SOP 29. This SOP deals with the Centennial award. Mike has previously sent out the revised SOP to the BOD.
The intent of the Centennial award was to create a certificate , and a medallion to be given to owners of Buick automobiles that were 100 years old , and were shown at a National meet. There has been a low participation of Centennial automobiles at National Meets, so a termination date of 2023, following that National Meet has been set.
A future BOD at that time may elect to modify that date.
The BCA President, at his sole discretion, can issue a Centennial award to an owner of any 100 year old Buick, whether the car has been shown at a National meet or not , upon application by that owner

Larry indicated that he feels this award should be sent out to all 100-year-old Buicks whether they attend a National Meet or not.

Jack moved to approve the rewritten SOP . Jerry 2nd Motion was approved 7 – 1

 

Thank you for bringing this up. It will expire next year  and I personally feel it is important going forward to encourage cars of that era to participate in National Meets. That was how the original SOP was conceived. When the new BOD covens, I intend to put it back on the agenda , albeit with a future cut off date as I believe future BOD should have that discretion.

[38Buick 80C]

3 hours ago, Jack Welch said:

 albeit with a future cut off date

1945! that way a Hellcat tank can get one...

[Jack Welch]

On 6/12/2022 at 4:19 PM, Terry Wiegand said:

I have been to The Gilmore Museum on several occasions.  It has been upgraded and added to a whole lot since we were there the last time.  This is truly a world class facility.  The Horseless Carriage Club is planning a very nice presence also.  I personally hope that the Board of Directors for Gilmore will look long and hard before they allow a hot rod club to get entrenched at this venue.  This is just not the place for modified's, hot rods, and the likes of vehicles that the above named organization throw their arms around.  If I have offended anyone in the named group you are just going to have to get over it.  

 

Terry Wiegand

Antique Automobile Club Life Member

Horseless Carriage Club Life Member

Brass Era Buick Owner

From the Gilmore Museum Hot Rod exhibit.   The Gilmore seems to open to the entire spectrum of the Automobile Hobby.

[Pete Phillips]

The BCA's membership is declining and will probably continue to do so. The club's fixed costs are only going to increase in the coming years (postage, paper & printing of the magazine, cost of trophies & awards, cost of liability insurance, cost of hiring & keeping staff to run the office and put out the magazine). Why would we want to take on more fixed costs, that we would have little or no control over? I see this as a way to hasten the club's decline. As the dues keep being raised to cover increasing fixed expenses, the cost of BCA membership will discourage younger members and those on fixed incomes from joining. Buick owners can already get many of the benefits of BCA membership from other sources--I am referring to the free Facebook and Google interest groups which cost nothing to join and are an excellent place to advertise cars for sale, parts wanted, getting technical advice, etc.

 

Pete Phillips, BCA #7338

Leonard, TX

[Larry Schramm]

12 minutes ago, Pete Phillips said:

The BCA's membership is declining and will probably continue to do so. 

 

As the dues keep being raised to cover increasing fixed expenses, the cost of BCA membership will discourage younger members and those on fixed incomes from joining. 

 

Pete Phillips, BCA #7338

Leonard, TX

 

When a business provides a product that the customer wants, the customers will come.   When the business loses the customer focus, customers will drift away. 

Read these two links to try to understand what I am saying.

 

https://www.markinblog.com/customer-loyalty-retention-statistics/?gclid=Cj0KCQjw8amWBhCYARIsADqZJoWTYHabkvNGesgtEfDh-wxpO4sM8uF-uau7H1g_0822t-K8Kk7qbhgaAqn6EALw_wcB

 

https://www.europeanbusinessreview.com/is-acquiring-new-customers-more-expensive-than-keeping-them/

[Jack Welch]

This is an example of what a possible Buick museum at the Gilmore may look like. The feasibility study is in its infancy and the concept of a museum is that it would be self supporting . The Cadillac LaSalle Club and the CCCA are two of the museums on site that are self supporting and the HCCA is now expanding its presence. None of these things alone would indicate that a Buick museum is a fit, but they do indicate it is an idea worth pursuing .Membership in general has been very supportive of the concept. Would a Buick museum also draw support from ROA members and GS folks. Time will tell.

[60FlatTop]

I like the idea of Buick pooling with the Gilmore group. From my personal experience with many clubs the Buick Club is the tightest group with money that I have seen. (Heard about the two Buick guys who got hold of a penny and invented copper wire?)

I was director of our chapter twice and can make a quick list of the number of times I reached into my pocket to pay for a club related item rather than listen to the howls and crying over the cost.

I tried to make a contribution through PayPal on time and was told to tag it as a gift to a family member so the fee would be less.

 

The Buick Centenary Certificate Award was a project I took on with the help of Cindy Livingston and offered to fund printing and mailing through 2048 (my hundredth birthday). The offer was just blown off while they gyrated with other priorities.

 

The building construction as a capital expense offers some manipulative finance options but the ongoing operation and Gilmore association fees are a responsibility into perpetuity. I don't see that fitting the Buick personality.

 

Every interaction is a learning opportunity. Although it is a good idea I have been taught to be quite wary when money isn't mentioned first. What is the budget and lifecycle cost?

[Barney Eaton]

What we want and what we can afford may not be the same thing.    I have been to the Gilmore one time and was very impressed, however when the committee assigned to review the proposed project gets all 

the fact together then we actually have something to discuss.   I am afraid that the BCA alone cannot support such a project.   Even if the BCA found a donor (or several) that would pay for the building could 

we afford the annual cost?    As noted there would be light, heat, insurance, and you have yet to see what the relationship would cost with the Gilmore to have the building there.

Someone mentioned having national BCA meets at the Gilmore if we build there and the response was there are no hotels or food near the site.   

I can wait until all the details have been uncovered. 

[Walt G]

On 7/7/2022 at 9:03 AM, Jack Welch said:

They would not be moving their assets from Hershey,  as the AACA Library is just that, a Library,  and the BHA literature belongs in the wonderful facility that the AACA library is

No adverse suggestions against the Gilmore complex, but I think the AACA library facility is one of the best going in any/all of the clubs. I have talked to both Chris and Matt who work there on several occasions over the years and they indeed know what they are doing and have this support of a long term on going organization/club.

I have been to the Gilmore property several times when I was on the national board of a car club who has a museum building there. Great place - IN WARM WEATHER but not exactly visitor friendly in the cold winter months. The comment that places to stay are not close by is true. My experience in life is what I make judgements with - I am active in non car related historical preservation at local and state level, worked as a museum exhibit technician 40+ years ago as well, taught art and architecture , started a Historical Society 25 years ago ( yes it is still going) . I hope that the consideration for this BCA museum proceeds cautiously and relies on sage advice from people with experience - enthusiasm is wonderful, I am all for that , but can also lead to some unclear thinking.

[Jack Welch]

On 7/25/2022 at 11:16 AM, 60FlatTop said:

I like the idea of Buick pooling with the Gilmore group. From my personal experience with many clubs the Buick Club is the tightest group with money that I have seen. (Heard about the two Buick guys who got hold of a penny and invented copper wire?)

I was director of our chapter twice and can make a quick list of the number of times I reached into my pocket to pay for a club related item rather than listen to the howls and crying over the cost.

I tried to make a contribution through PayPal on time and was told to tag it as a gift to a family member so the fee would be less.

 

The Buick Centenary Certificate Award was a project I took on with the help of Cindy Livingston and offered to fund printing and mailing through 2048 (my hundredth birthday). The offer was just blown off while they gyrated with other priorities.

 

The building construction as a capital expense offers some manipulative finance options but the ongoing operation and Gilmore association fees are a responsibility into perpetuity. I don't see that fitting the Buick personality.

 

Every interaction is a learning opportunity. Although it is a good idea I have been taught to be quite wary when money isn't mentioned first. What is the budget and lifecycle cost?

Money has been discussed in great detail. There are many possible options and the team has discussed some these options with the Gilmore management team. We are still a long way from decisions of any kind. The purpose of a feasibility study is just that: to see if it makes sense for the BCA or not. Gilmore has been very forthcoming in discussing costs, as well as original capital investment. Discussions are on going. Like any project , there are upfront costs of building, and on going maintenance costs. 

Edited July 27, 2022 by Jack Welch (see edit history)

[Jack Welch]

The BCA Museum Committee has had ongoing discussions about the possibility of a BCA museum at the Gilmore complex. As a matter of due diligence , they are also exploring other possible sites for a museum location. So far there has been strong support from the membership about having a museum. Some members have come forth about donations about automobiles and other memorabilia as well as financial support. The matter is a long way from any decision. There are concerns are about long term costs, (the Intent is to have a museum be self sustaining). Another matter of concern is the current sharp rise in construction costs across the Country.  As has been mentioned previously , deliberations are ongoing, including some "thinking outside the box" as to how to make this happen. 

[B Jake Moran]

On 7/25/2022 at 9:02 AM, Jack Welch said:

This is an example of what a possible Buick museum at the Gilmore may look like. The feasibility study is in its infancy and the concept of a museum is that it would be self supporting . The Cadillac LaSalle Club and the CCCA are two of the museums on site that are self supporting and the HCCA is now expanding its presence. None of these things alone would indicate that a Buick museum is a fit, but they do indicate it is an idea worth pursuing .Membership in general has been very supportive of the concept. Would a Buick museum also draw support from ROA members and GS folks. Time will tell.

I recognize that dealership because I am an O Scale Model Train hobbyist since I got out of old cars.  Menards makes that!  That does give s good idea of a “dealership “ 

[Jack Welch]

The possibility of a Buick museum is still a very real one. Gilmore is now just one of the possible sites. The Museum committee members have formed a corporation known as the Buick Motor car Museum. A chapter 501 C 3 non profit found is being applied for. This museum will not be funded by the BCA. The BCA board has voted to advance the corporation "seed" money for legal fees. etc. This money is to be paid back to the BCA. Several members have already stepped up to be potential donors, once the non profit application is accepted by the IRS. All good news. There are currently three sites being looked at for a possible location. 

[B Jake Moran]

Thank you for the update.  

[Jack Welch]

The possibility of a Buick Museum is a real one. The Buick Motor Car Museum now exists on paper. It is totally separate from the Buick Club of America as an entity. It has ben incorporated as a Minnesota Corporation . We are currently investigating  several possible sites, the Gilmore being one. The Museum is currently waiting for confirmation of its 501 c 3 status back from the IRS. We will only get one chance to do this right, so the Board of Directors is proceeding cautiously.  

[B Jake Moran]

On 3/7/2024 at 12:06 PM, Jack Welch said:

The possibility of a Buick Museum is a real one. The Buick Motor Car Museum now exists on paper. It is totally separate from the Buick Club of America as an entity. ...so the Board of Directors is proceeding cautiously.  

If the museum will be totally separate from the BCA, why is the BOD proceeding cautiously?

[Jack Welch]

We get one chance to do this right, regardless of who's money is being spent

Edited June 10 by Jack Welch (see edit history)

[JohnD1956]

In my opinion, the  club would benefit more from a paid, full time, manager vs a museum.  

[NTX5467]

Late to this discussion, in here, but knowing something about it already . . .

 

The Gilmore is an iconic location, BUT it appears to me that they are seeking to "improve their brand" at the costs of those putting new museums on their property.  Nothing wrong with that from THEIR side of things, but I also note that those brands who are successful in their museum ventures up there have a much larger following than Buicks, by observation.  Which also probably have funded their respective expansions.  Of course, the desire would be to put the venue in an area where lots of car people would attend and pay to visit a Buick Museum operation.  As if "riding their coat tails", so to speak. 

 

At a lunch we had as a part of our South Central Regional Meet last year, Jerry Courson was in attendance and sought input from our group about which direction the museum might take.  As to locations, "strings attached" at the Gilmore location, and possible re-purposing vacant retail buildings in several locations.  Several of our members had been to or knew of the operations of other car groups at Gilmore, but we were generally unaware of "the strings attached" situations.

 

Possibly ONE advantage of The Gilmore would be "We know who the landlord is", but that would NOT prevent possible/probable rent/fee increases in the future.  I might also pose the possibility of a "default mode" should an exit from Gilmore be needed?

 

Now that all non-profit paperwork has been completed, might it now be possible to partner with another non-profit car organization to configure a joint venture operation?  Or even a partnership with Sloan-Longway to centralize all Buick operations in a new facility to include:  vehicle displays, literature archives, volunteer restorations and classes on such, and related acquisition/periodic "tuns" of inventory/archiving functions.  A facility that could be "All Things Buick" in a Buick-oriented city, in a vehicle-oriented state (which could translate into "Flint, MI").

 

One possible issue with Flint might be "cost of real estate" when compared to other places in the nation.  Obviously less than a major population center, but higher than a location more remote from a major metro area.  Although I feel a Flint location might be very good, there might be other locations that could also be good, too.  Possibly Carlisle, PA?  Maybe even Bowling Green, KY?  Or even a "small town USA" location like Pete Phillips discovered, relating to Pontiacs?

 

In one respect, partnering with Sloan-Longway could be mutually beneficial.  Giving S-L a way to expand out of their "land-locked" current venue into the edges of Flint in a larger facility.  Moving all of their Buick-related items and cars to the new facility, while then allowing them to expand other aspects of their operations at the current location.  They could still keep some Buicks in a rotating display at the current location, but also promote the new facility for "See more at . . ." orientations.

 

THEN, let the automotive historians in Michigan and at the OEMs put together a large map (and plant tour tour) of all of the prior and present automotive-oriented locations in the Michigan state area, for promoting the great heritage of the region and possibly starting a "Come to Michigan" promotion of all things automotive.  With tie-ins to other automotive industries (as in tires, paints, components, aftermarket vendors).  Lots of plant tours, too!  Expand the whole state to be more like a much bigger event, similar to going to the Henry Ford Museum complex of sorts.

 

When we went to the Buick Centennial Celebration/2003 BCA National Meet in Flint, we flew into Detroit, got a Buick Regal from National Car Rental's Emerald Aisle (of which I was a member), and headed west, then north to Flint.  As it was mid-afternoon, I took the first exit market to have a Wendy's hamburgers location.  After we got something to eat, I noticed the "plant" across the street, somewhat hidden with a fence of 50' tall trees.  Ford's Livonia Plant where Lincolns and T-birds were built, but had been closed-down a year or so prior to that time.  THEN it struck me how much car history might be hiding "in plain sight' up there.

 

Later, one afternoon, we "snuck off" from the Buick events to trek to Auburn Hills and the then-new Chrysler museum, lunching at a Kip's BigBoy Restaurant.  More neatness!  No time to go to the similar Ford or GM venues up there.  In some respects, taking a summer vacation to MI could be similar to a Route 66 excursion, or to the hallowed ground of a Hershey or Carlisle swap meet/car show event.

 

Personally, I suspect that some might be "blinded by the light" of Gilmore, when other good locations might be equally as good OR better for promoting the museum and Buicks in general.  As there are lots of automotive-related museums and real estate in the Ohio and Indiana states.  Once one stops being impressed by "The Glory of Gilmore", many OTHER good locations/areas suddenly come into view, by observation.  Not to forget the partnering with Olds or Cadillac museums, too, for the good of all of them, together.  MANY possibilities exist, I suspect!

 

Just some thoughts,

Willis Bell  20811

 

 

[Larry Schramm]

FYI, the GM Heritage Center is being relocated from the Detroit area up to Flint at the old GM Service Parts Building in Grand Blanc.  That group has hundreds of GM vehicles that will be on display when it opens.

 

It is also the repository of GM historical collection including literature, photos, etc.

 

Oh, and don't forget that the GM factory 1 is located in Flint a couple of miles from the Sloan which also houses an extensive collection that was located at the old General Motors Institute, now Kettering University.

 

All this on top of what the Sloan Museum has in their collection of literature and all things Buick.

Edited June 19 by Larry Schramm (see edit history)

[Barney Eaton]

Do museums get an exemption from state and local taxes?    I know of a story in Texas where a fellow opened his private collection to the public,  within weeks the local tax assessor 

came in to do an inventory and tax him on it.    He closed the collection to the public and now you need to know someone that knows someone to view the collection of classic cars. 

Does the 501 designation exempt the museum property (both buildings and content) from state and local taxes?   If the answers is in some locations,  then that should also be strongly considered when 

considering a location. 

[Shootey]

There is a way to become tax exempt. An example is the Blackhawk museum in Danville California. The collection was initially owned by Ken Behring, a wealthy real estate developer. He worked out a deal with the University of California at Berkeley which resulted in tax exemption. Part of the deal may have been a contribution of part or all of Behring’s collection to UC which gave him a big tax deduction. The museum was marketed in part by using the University of California name. 

[NTX5467]

I concur with @Larry Schramm, the Flint area would make a great place for the BCA-owned museum.  There might also be a group of former Buick employees there which might help to staff it, too.  Paid or volunteer.

 

I was in the www.gm.com website the other night looking at the "vehicle information kit" archives.  I was surprised to not see "Buick" or "Pontiac" in that list.  The other 4 GM brands are there.  Just curious about that OR if there's another website where such information can be found?  Specifically, "A.M.A. Specifications".  Sorry for the diversion.

 

NTX5467

[Larry Schramm]

On 6/19/2024 at 11:35 PM, NTX5467 said:

I concur with @Larry Schramm, the Flint area would make a great place for the BCA-owned museum.  There might also be a group of former Buick employees there which might help to staff it, too.  Paid or volunteer.

 

I was in the www.gm.com website the other night looking at the "vehicle information kit" archives.  I was surprised to not see "Buick" or "Pontiac" in that list.  The other 4 GM brands are there.  Just curious about that OR if there's another website where such information can be found?  Specifically, "A.M.A. Specifications".  Sorry for the diversion.

 

NTX5467

 

I would look to partner with The Sloan Museum.

[Jack Welch]

it is great to see these comments and enthusiasm for a Buick Museum. The first thing, I would like to mention is that this will not be a BCA "owned" museum. It will be totally stand alone, just as the BHA is stand alone. . The cost of a Museum would put an undue burden on the BCA. The Museum Board Directors and officers are all BCA members at present , but that is not a requirement. The relationship between the Museum is based on a common purpose , The Preservation of the Buick marque and history. The focus of the Museum will be Buick history.

As has been mentioned, a partnership arrangement with a similar entity holds much merit. Several sites are under consideration, Flint is in fact, one of those sites. The Board has also had formal talks with Gilmore. Other possible sites are being vetted, one at a time. As I had mentioned before, we have one chance to do this right.