1939 Franken-Packard?

[Guest]

 

I came across this 1939 Packard convertible on craigslist and thought it was pretty sharp until I found it has a replacement 1940 front end.   There seems to be no explanation as to why it's been changed.   It appears there is too much open space above the front tire in one of the pictures, could this be due to the body panel change?   

I can't speak to price on this car but I do realize the white vinyl interior and painted dash don't help. 

So I'm curious, will this front end change-up put this car in some sort of Packard Limbo?   Will it carry the stigma of illegitimate offspring?   Will those "in the know" be able to spot this issue instantly?

Or do you think, because it's still a reasonable looking '30's convertible that it's no big deal?

Appreciate any and all input.

Cheers, Greg

 

1939 Packard 120 convertible - $55,000 (Mission Hills)

 

 

https://losangeles.craigslist.org/sfv/cto/d/mission-hills-1939-packard-120/7485404449.html

1939 Packard 120 convertible. Dual side mounts rebuilt straight 8 engine, 3 on the tree. Has 2 jumper seats in the rear runs and drives excellent (its a Packard). It has a 1940 Packard super 8 front end and other 1940 parts because a previous owner changed them a long time ago. Clean California title in hand with current registration in my name. Possible trade for Impala no projects plus cash. lf the ad is still up the car is still for sale. Contact Richard 747-322-9290

 

 

[George Smolinski]

I have no Packard knowledge, but I know I wouldn’t pay $55,000 for a car that isn’t right.

[alsancle]

The most likely answer would be front end collision and that was the clip sitting in the salvage yard.

[intimeold]

I would love to have it to drive and enjoy, but!

 

I wouldn't take it to a show and listen to all the negatives; from people who never even had this era of Packard. My patience would wear thin.

 

Thus, $55,000 is a great amount for a toy to drive.  Let alone the hassle; when you go to resale it, at some time.  The negatives won't go away.

 

intimeold 

[Xander Wildeisen]

Market place will determine its value. Just like everything else. Condition and fitting issues are all things that can be fixed. You can not hang your head in shame driving around an open Packard.

[John_S_in_Penna]

When cars had white interiors from the factory,

the dashboards were darker for a reason.  On a

bright day, light reflecting off this white dashboard

could be distracting or even blinding.  If you get

this car, Greg, have the dashboard properly redone.

 

If you like this car, Greg, buy it at an appropriately

discounted price.  Take friends and neighbors for

rides.  Jaded experts may not like the incorrectness,

but the general public will appreciate the beauty of

its lines, and the chance to see an old car.

[58L-Y8]

Tommy:

Here is the link to a PDF download of the 1939 Salesman Data book.  To learn what is correct for that model year, study it for an afternoon. 

Literature Archive - Packard Motor Car Information (packardinfo.com)

The details are what is important, these books include such in spades.    Not unlikely the front clip was changed years ago because of an accident, as AJ points out, the 1940 front clip was what was readily available.   Before these Packards attained desirable collector status, people repaired them with what was expedient.   The white vinyl was also a less expensive, expedient choice for the re-upholstery, though a poor one.  I would advise anyone pursuing this Packard to check the motor number as well to see if it is in the 1939 120 sequence.  Engine numbers are located on a boss on the upper left corner of the cylinder black. Starting; B-300001. Ending: 399999.

Steve

[Walt G]

Very well stated John. Do what makes you happy and people around you happy . The dashboard comment is so very true as well, reflection of sun light will bl;ind you.

Price should be what you can afford with the consideration of the incorrect things that you may want to eventually correct. 55k is way over the top. To replace the interior to be correct will be well over 15k.

Looks like the air cleaner is missing.

[60FlatTop]

We have an urban legend car in our area that I hear about frequently, maybe not so much since the plague hit, but I would hear the tales. I know the owner and have been familiar with the car for decades.

A noted Pierce-Arrow owner told me the story of the first offering of that car on the collector market. He was interested and one Saturday he and a few of his friends dove to the other side of the city to look it over. It is a 1939 Buick Roadmaster 4 door convertible. And this was right around 1970. Each member of the small group thoroughly scrutinized the car. They stopped in a nearby restaurant to discuss the car and their findings. Fault was found with nearly every aspect of the car. My friend was convinced by the experts that it was a foolhardy purchase, one to run away front. And that was the consensus. It was written off.

 

A couple of weeks later the car pulled into my friends dealership driven by a local car salesman who was a bit less discerning. He was beaming while showing the car to bystanders. He drove the car for a couple of years and passed it on to the current owner. He had a great personal experience and not a regret about buying it. Unlike my friend who grumbled as he told the story. A lesson learned and passed on to me.

 

Lots of times the only word I can think of is dogma. And that is usually car hobby related. I can't think of a car that I have regretted buying. But there are a whole bunch I regret not buying. $55,000 is a good chunk but it is a discretionary purchase. Not the kind of thing one would take out a bank loan for or give up groceries for the family. It looks nice.

 

Take a car like that to a cruise night. Someone will walk up to you and say " I have one like that too." "Is it here"" "No. It's not finished. I have had it apart for 15 years." "Oh" "But when I'm done it will be nicer."

Edited May 21, 2022 by 60FlatTop (see edit history)

[J.H.Boland]

It's my understanding that the convertible coupe (and coupe) body was the same on all 1938-40 Packards. Only the nose was different depending on the year, engine and wheelbase. If I were showing it at a cruise night or non Packard specific show, I'd be calling it a 1940. Personally, I've always liked the 1940 nose better anyway.

I agree with Walt that $55K is pretty steep given what else would need to be corrected.

[1937hd45]

There was a time when Dual Side Mounts were added to everything along with bolting on every accessory that fits, the hobby has moved on. 

[JimKB1MCV]

  For maybe half the listed ask, I might think about it.

  It looks like a Super Eight nose which I wouldn't think would be a direct bolt-on to a 120 frame due to w/b difference. I'm more than willing to be corrected on that.

  For reference a '40 six cyl convertible in pretty good original condition  changed hands a couple years ago in Texas for (I think) ~10k more.

 

  Car needs a close inspection. Too bad about the interior.

  Dash plastic for 39 and 40 hasn't stood the test of time well.

 

[60FlatTop]

I read the Craigslist ad and it says: " It has a 1940 Packard super 8 front end and other 1940 parts because a previous owner changed them a long time ago."

 

A long time ago was 20, 30, maybe 50 (1970) years ago.

 

That would lead me to believe one of today's hypercritical,  infallible octogenarians or older was the perpetrator. They are out there all the time spouting "this or that one butchered something". "This or that ain't right", young people don't know nothing and mess up everything they touch. 

 

I listen and pay attention, coming to a topic on the forum soon.

[bryankazmer]

1 hour ago, JimKB1MCV said:

 

  It looks like a Super Eight nose which I wouldn't think would be a direct bolt-on to a 120 frame due to w/b difference. I'm more than willing to be corrected on that.

 

 

The 1703/1803 Super Eights have the same 127" wb as a 120.

[58L-Y8]

1 hour ago, JimKB1MCV said:

 " It looks like a Super Eight nose which I wouldn't think would be a direct bolt-on to a 120 frame due to w/b difference. I'm more than willing to be corrected on that."

Although the 120 model name that was applied to the 1935-'37 series denoted the wheelbase length, beginning with the 1938 restyle and revision plus the all-steel bodies, the former 120" wheelbase was increased to 127 inches.  To further muddled the situation, the 120 was now named the Eight, but for 1939 the series returned to the 120 nomenclature, which it kept through 1941, to become the Eight for 1942.

 

As part of the rationalization program instituted by President Gilman and Production Chief Christopher, the 1939 Super Eight was now built on the same chassis and body as the 127" and 148" wb 120's.   This continued for 1940-'41 with the Super Eight 160 and Custom Super Eight 180. which also gained a 138" wb platform.    The front axle-to-dash length is the same for all eight-cylinder models, and the front clips are interchangeable.

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, 58L-Y8 said:

Although the 120 model name that was applied to the 1935-'37 series denoted the wheelbase length, beginning with the 1938 restyle and revision plus the all-steel bodies, the former 120" wheelbase was increased to 127 inches.  To further muddled the situation, the 120 was now named the Eight, but for 1939 the series returned to the 120 nomenclature, which it kept through 1941, to become the Eight for 1942.

 

As part of the rationalization program instituted by President Gilman and Production Chief Christopher, the 1939 Super Eight was now built on the same chassis and body as the 127" and 148" wb 120's.   This continued for 1940-'41 with the Super Eight 160 and Custom Super Eight 180. which also gained a 138" wb platform.    The front axle-to-dash length is the same for all eight-cylinder models, and the front clips are interchangeable.

 

The Packard naming and name changing in this era gets real confusing!

[kar3516]

I like the oft repeated phrase on these forums “if it speaks to you then buy it”.  I have a Packard in my garage with original paint and interior which runs well because the gentleman I bought it from spent a couple of years chasing down and fixing almost all of the issues.  Sure it has a few scrapes and scratches but every time I walk by it speaks to me again.  I’m glad I bought it.

[auburnseeker]

The purchase is the easiest part.  Living with it maybe not so much, especially if it's one of those ones that has it in for you.  

[John_S_in_Penna]

4 hours ago, kar3516 said:

I like the oft repeated phrase on these forums “if it speaks to you then buy it”. 

Well said, Mr. Kar3516!  I like that idea too.

[Xander Wildeisen]

I have a Hudson that talks to much.🤔

[auburnseeker]

3 hours ago, Xander Wildeisen said:

I have a Hudson that talks to much.🤔

I have a garage full of cars ,  all waiting patiently, for their turn to extract a little blood from my corpse.  I feel intimidated every time I walk in there.  

I hear them whispering to each other and giving me that look. 

[Xander Wildeisen]

They do talk. Do not stack them on lifts. Then they can see what really goes on.

[SC38dls]

7 hours ago, auburnseeker said:

I have a garage full of cars ,  all waiting patiently, for their turn to extract a little blood from my corpse.  I feel intimidated every time I walk in there.  

I hear them whispering to each other and giving me that look. 

I’ll take the Big Boy off your hands that should help quite things down in the garage. 
dave s 

[Xander Wildeisen]

It’s always the big boy starting the problems.

[auburnseeker]

2 hours ago, SC38dls said:

I’ll take the Big Boy off your hands that should help quite things down in the garage. 
dave s 

That is the only one that runs and drives.  I atleast have to get something else running and road legal before I part with it.

 

Maybe,  Just maybe,  it's the Big Boy keeping order,  Otherwise maybe the others would have strung me up with an extension chord by now and taken turns at me with a tire iron.  

[auburnseeker]

10 hours ago, Xander Wildeisen said:

They do talk. Do not stack them on lifts. Then they can see what really goes on.

What you do in your shop is more along the lines of a torture chamber.  I think more than one has been drawn and Quartered for the rest to see.  

 

That probably helps keep order. 

 

Mine is more like a spa.  A little buff and fluff, shine the chrome, stuff like that. 

Edited May 23, 2022 by auburnseeker (see edit history)

[Xander Wildeisen]

I am just helping them through the dying/grieving process. Comforting them as they prepare for the journey onto the highway of ever after. I perform a service, years of neglect and abuse has brought them to me. Drawn, almost magically by a Devine power. Into my waiting arms. I let them know the comet is on the way, as I place the car cover over them.🤫