Flashback - Instant classics?

[30DodgePanel]

You ever have those spells in life when you get so busy that life is a blur, then weeks later you feel as if the world past you by or maybe you were in a slight coma for who knows how long? Yeah, this month I crawled out of my slumber to find this hideous thing (how long was I asleep?).

 

Please tell me we aren't going back to the 1980s Escort days.

This thing has Yugo, Vega, Chevette and Pinto all wrapped up into one without even trying. 

I get that some folks need to be within a certain budget, trust me I do, but this design is just repulsive. 

 

 

 

 

I'm not even a Ford guy but anyone can see the difference between an instant classic and a pile of dung. Well, most of us...

 

 

[3macboys]

I think that particular truck is the victim of a poor color and the base wheels.  Throw some color and wheels on it and to my eye it's not bad.  Not my choice of vehicle but neither was the S10 or Dakota for that matter but I understand the appeal for those who don't need a full size truck.

 

Edited March 27, 2022 by 3macboys (see edit history)

[30DodgePanel]

I agree, wheels and color do flash it up a bit but now it just looks like we need to add the "Cube" to the list.

 

My wife keeps telling me I need new glasses, maybe she's right.

[Gunsmoke]

Keeping things positive, the "truck" industry is trying to resolve a couple of competing issues. Firstly, the serious and objective energy and related climate crisis situation (a factual reality corporate America must respond to), and secondly, the subjective fascination of American consumers with "trucks". In a pre '60's world a truck was a means of transportation for work purposes, on the ranch, on the construction site, hauling material, truck (and Van) related trades (masons, carpenters, landscapers, plumbers, electricians etc). Those trucks were largely utilitarian, no frills, dog dish hubcaps, minimalist interiors, and not particularly heavy duty or high powered. They did not need to be. Fast forward to 2020,  and "monster trucks" have become the norm not only for those who need a truck, but for grocery haulers, family vacationers, macho posers, etc. They are priced at about double a decent family car, serious gas gobblers, often have maintenance nightmares, pollute the air, hog the highways, and routinely kill people who are unfortunate to have a head-on with them. So the industry is trying to wean consumers off their "big and glamorous is better" focus and it will not be easy.  The OP truck to me looks like just what the next generation of trucks should look like, if you need a truck, i.e. plain, inexpensive to build, enough features (like 4 doors) to allow a gradual weaning from it's bigger comparatives, etc. Some "truckers" will dismiss the gradual change, with terms like "but this design is just repulsive." I would ask a simple question. Why not instead start a balanced conversation about the new reality the industry faces, i.e. making a truck product that meets consumers needs while addressing climate and energy facts. Would be a lot more helpful to the future of transportation, and industry might even get some consumer guidance. 

[Bhigdog]

For those that want a truck but don't really need one it will sell.  Those that need a truck won't be interested. For those who use a truck but don't really need one it's the worst of both worlds. Crappy car and worse truck...........Bob

[8E45E]

Full size trucks have vastly improved their fuel mileage  in the past few years, to the point they are now getting better fuel mileage than the 80's and 90's mid-size trucks, at least unloaded, which most light trucks are, 70% of the time.

 

Craig

[Bhigdog]

My Dodge 2500 diesel @ 65 MPH gets 22 MPG unloaded in still air and flat terrain..............Bob

[1912Staver]

A bit of insight to at least a segment of the light truck market. Some years back I was visiting a fellow old car guy in cattle country. His main source of income was second hand , medium duty trucks. A portion of his trucks came from urban delivery fleets , which were often sold off surplus at about the 5 year old mark and replaced with new. One tons - three tons with van box bodies. He would then remove the van boxes and replace them with open flat decks, and stock transport bodies that were much more suited for rural , general purpose, ranch and agriculture  use. And the van bodies had a great resale as storage sheds.

 He said once the more powerful, Cummins  diesel , pick up based trucks hit the market it almost overnight killed his business in second hand , medium duty trucks. Ranch owners now had a vehicle that could double as daily transport, plus could tow large trailers that could perform all the "ranch country " utility tasks. Big flat deck trailers , big stock trailers. You name it. No longer a need for a people oriented , daily use vehicle , plus one or two medium duty trucks , a flat deck and a stock transport truck for example. 

As time went by these " big diesel " pick ups became much more luxurious, and soon even city people were buying them in droves.

[TerryB]

Ford has quit taking orders for the Maverick truck as demand has outpaced their ability to supply them to customers.  Not everybody needs a big truck and apparently there is a market for an alternative.

[3macboys]

Maybe we can blame Dodge for the gentrification of the pick up.  I'm not sure that Don Knotts was ever "The Dude" though

 

[8E45E]

3 minutes ago, 3macboys said:

Maybe we can blame Dodge for the gentrification of the pick up.  I'm not sure that Don Knotts was ever "The Dude" though.

Dodge did it 6 years previous with the Custom Sports Special:  Max Factor: 426-Powered Dodge D-100 Was a Rebel In Its Time (motortrend.com)

 

First 1/2 ton with optional bucket seats and a console?

 

Craig

[Gunsmoke]

Some one posted "My Dodge 2500 diesel @ 65 MPH gets 22 MPG unloaded in still air and flat terrain." A quick internet check rates these vehicles as 12 City, 18 highway, and 15 average. While I don't question the poster's statement, the reality is these types of vehicles are hard on gas when used in the normal mix of driving. At 15 MPG average, one needs to reflect on whether there might be a better alternative for some trips, as conventional gas cars getting 35+MPG are out there (Honda Civic average 36MPG) and hybrids above 55-60MPG as well. Help save the planet.

[Billy Kingsley]

Love the small trucks. If I was in the market to buy one the Ranger and Maverick would be the only options I'd consider.

 

They also look great. It actually looks like a truck, no pretending it's a car. 

[1912Staver]

Back in 2009 my wife needed a new vehicle. For some reason I still don't completely understand she chose a 2 WD, Ford Ranger Sport. Smaller of the two V6's and the trailer package.  I was a bit puzzled at first , she absolutely hated driving any of my clunky old full size pickup's in the past. But the Ranger seemed to suit her. And it was handy for trips to the building supply store. Plus it could easily tow my flat deck car trailer , as long as I didn't move too large a vehicle. About the only thing I really disliked is that the seat is way too high. I am fairy tall and the rear view mirror ends up being right at my eye level. She is 6 " or so shorter than I am and the seat is perfect for someone of her height. 

Ford sold a huge number of these trucks, but for some reason stopped making them. This new " truck " is I suppose Fords attempt to make a replacement. But I doubt it will be nearly as much a useful truck as the Ranger of old. And no doubt a much larger sticker price Just a rather tall car I am afraid.

Edited March 27, 2022 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[TTR]

Let’s not forget the simple fact that all trucks, ancient or modern, big or small, regardless of brand are and have always been appliances or utilitarian tools, if you will, nothing more, although many manufactured within past 4-5 decades have attempted to blur the definition lines between them and cars.

 

I’ve owned (& driven) various pickups, modern/new and vintage, in past 4+ decades and never viewed any being nothing but tools intended for hauling (and/or towing) stuff, although most of my daily driven pickups in past 30+ years have featured accommodations for more than 1 or 2 passengers.

Edited March 27, 2022 by TTR (see edit history)

[keiser31]

In my opinion the Dodge Viper was an instant classic. I am making a seat out of a front end of a Viper for my shop....maybe the only Viper front end seat in existence. Does that make it classic?

Edited March 27, 2022 by keiser31 (see edit history)

[Pfeil]

1 hour ago, 3macboys said:

Maybe we can blame Dodge for the gentrification of the pick up.  I'm not sure that Don Knotts was ever "The Dude" though

 

OH, he is a Dude alright!!!!

Even though he only carries one bullet !

Edited March 27, 2022 by Pfeil (see edit history)

[3macboys]

39 minutes ago, keiser31 said:

In my opinion the Dodge Viper was an instant classic. I am making a seat out of a front end of a Viper for my shop....maybe the only Viper front end seat in existence. Does that make it classic?

Now if that seat was in an outhouse would that make it the Viper Pit?

[30DodgePanel]

1 hour ago, TerryB said:

Ford has quit taking orders for the Maverick truck as demand has outpaced their ability to supply them to customers.  Not everybody needs a big truck and apparently there is a market for an alternative.

 

I get it, obviously there will always be a demand for the small to mid-range needs/wants, fuel economy, saving the planet etc. especially during these inflationary and unsettling times as some folks may feel they have to make these kinds of decisions, but the design and the sense of unreliability and lack of originality are written all over it. Besides, it's the name of a POS car so I guess they nailed part of their own criteria (oops, probably went too far on that one for the snowflakes). 

 

Anyone remember the hype about the Escort when it first came out? Sure, both fit a niche because of the price target and other things, I understand, but at least they've made improvements to the Escort appearance over the years to make it somewhat more appealing, this to me has the same feel to it. I'm probably wrong but in 10-15 years I'd be very curious to see if this thing is even around or will it be more filler for yards. Its appearance may evolve for the good (let's hope) but for now she needs a bag over her head. Wheels and color make anything more appealing, and I understand some see the beauty in her, but I just wonder what the attraction is. No matter how big the shirt is, we all still see the same lines. Ford better stock up on lipstick if this is the road they are going down, her headlights alone will cause distracted accidents surely. 

 

A lot of cars and trucks have been popular and in high demand for many reasons only to fade quickly into the sunset under the crappy skies they deserved so to say that they can't keep up with demand has zero credibility. Longevity, reliability are two criteria every consumer hope for in any vehicle, in turn that creates credibility that most need (and want) in transportation. It may be practical short term, but is it sustainable long term? That will be interesting to see. 

Edited March 27, 2022 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[30DodgePanel]

1 hour ago, keiser31 said:

In my opinion the Dodge Viper was an instant classic. I am making a seat out of a front end of a Viper for my shop....maybe the only Viper front end seat in existence. Does that make it classic?

 

It "depends".

How's the gas mileage on that couch? I'm guessing it has a max of two cans of Bush beans per visit.

Pretty crappy 

[3macboys]

4 minutes ago, 30DodgePanel said:

Longevity, reliability are two criteria every consumer hope for in any vehicle, in turn that creates credibility that most of need (and want) in transportation. It may be practical short term, but is it sustainable long term? That will be interesting to see. 

I think that the closest comparison would be the Australian Ute and they have been building those for a long time. 

[30DodgePanel]

2 hours ago, Gunsmoke said:

Why not instead start a balanced conversation about the new reality the industry faces, i.e. making a truck product that meets consumers needs while addressing climate and energy facts. Would be a lot more helpful to the future of transportation, and industry might even get some consumer guidance. 

 

You're preaching to the choir, we all live on the same planet and want what's best for future generations and one can debate climate and the effects all they want (go for it, and good luck with that on this forum btw) but without some kind of appeal or longevity it seems like another expensive experiment as consumers wallets are once again used as guinea pigs for "progress". 

[1912Staver]

30 Dodge, speaking of Escort's. Most regrettably, the first and in the view of many, best  Escort models was never sold in North America. A huge seller in the U.K. Europe and Down Under. 

Rust free ones are worth their weight in gold these days. Even more so if they are one of the performance models. This one from the early 1970's is for sale at just under 100,000.00 British Pounds. Well north of $100,000.00 U.S.

Escort RS 2000. The U.K.'s GT 350 R

 

Edited March 27, 2022 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[1912Staver]

Nothing to do with pick up trucks , but here is what makes the RS2000 magic. Ford's jack of all trades , Homologation special of the early 1970's. Emission/ safety regs. kept them off the U.S. market. You could walk into a U.K. Ford dealer and drive one of these home.

Have we really progressed even an inch over the last 50 years ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 27, 2022 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[30DodgePanel]

Redundancy doesn't change anything. No matter how many times any of you suggest that I or anyone who are independent thinkers are less human than anyone else it just doesn't make it true. So please, get off your high horse. 

 

I've noticed that some folks try that tactic over and over as they try and prove someone else wrong and will everyone to think the way they do (doesn't work for independent thinkers). Vitriol has nothing to do with it, people have voted for it as has been stated (again, several times now) and that's all fine and dandy but we shall see what is practical, sustainable and in demand longterm. 

 

Newsflash:

Just because something is popular doesn't mean I have to enjoy it or accept it. 

 

I live a pretty active lifestyle, we hike the local mountains, camp, fish and walk our neighborhood religiously so I must be missing something here. Is the point being because Maverick owners are active now days, they have to make sure ugly is part of the criteria when buying? 

 

I walk about 10 miles a day (with my job and other activities), I work around thousands of planes, shuttles, cars, trucks. I see and own IC and the EV's competing for the same lanes so no, I don't buy the fact that people like me are Vitriol no matter how many times your crowd repeat it.

Edited March 27, 2022 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[auburnseeker]

Well if we can hate on lots of old cars on this site,  no reason we can't hate on a few new ones.   As I understand it though,  it just has to be ones I don't post.  

[1912Staver]

I was very happy for 2 decades with my 1966 Mercury { Canadian Ford } M 100.  Regular box , 2 WD, 4 speed , regular cab truck. The only shortcoming was the small drum brakes for trailer towing. I guess power steering would have been nice as well , but it kept me in shape. Why waste money at the gym ? Why can't any domestic maker build a very simple, very basic, does lots of light duty work truck ? And please, not the price of a Cadillac.

[TerryB]

It’s hard to find a basic truck on a dealer lot as the truck craze has generated big $$$ for the auto makers.  The simple car trucks like El Camino and Ranchero were the early answer to light duty work.  Todays Honda pickup is another variation of that idea and will be joined by the Ford Maverick truck.  I doubt manufacturers worry about lasting appeal.  Selling what the customer wants today is how the company makes $$$.  Looks like Ford found an untapped market.

[3macboys]

20 minutes ago, 1912Staver said:

I was very happy for 2 decades with my 1966 Mercury { Canadian Ford } M 100.  Regular box , 2 WD, 4 speed , regular cab truck. The only shortcoming was the small drum brakes for trailer towing. I guess power steering would have been nice as well , but it kept me in shape. Why waste money at the gym ? Why can't any domestic maker build a very simple, very basic, does lots of light duty work truck ? And please, not the price of a Cadillac.

They do - a base F150 with an 8 ft box is $35k, a Ram with a 6'4" box is 40 k and the Chev with an 8 foot is 40 k all in Canadian funds.  It's just as TerryB says, you are not going to find one on a lot but they can be had.  My first new car that I bought was fairly basic and cost me 16 000 in 1990 which in todays dollars is 35 000 so I would say those prices are not out of line.

[30DodgePanel]

16 minutes ago, TerryB said:

It’s hard to find a basic truck on a dealer lot as the truck craze has generated big $$$ for the auto makers.  The simple car trucks like El Camino and Ranchero were the early answer to light duty work.  Todays Honda pickup is another variation of that idea and will be joined by the Ford Maverick truck.  I doubt manufacturers worry about lasting appeal.  Selling what the customer wants today is how the company makes $$$.  Looks like Ford found an untapped market.

They sure did.

 

Question is:

I wonder how much of the influence to purchase a car or truck now days is due to the nostalgic vs new factor? Surely there has to be a certain percentage that are buying because of the name Maverick alone while others are buying simply because it's new to market. Furthermore, I would imagine a small percentage of them are too young to even know what the Maverick of the 70s was, and probably a great majority of those (if they knew the old Maverick) probably wouldn't have bought the new Maverick (possibly, who knows..). 

 

Take the Charger and the Challenger as example. I'm betting that a good majority of folks bought just because of the name and the nostalgia. 

The Challenger is appealing to the eye but again, is it sustainable and will it be around in years as appealing piece of automotive history? I think so. 

Take that same vehicle (Challenger) and make it a EV and I'd venture to say you have another component of the consumer market happy as well. Why are the auto makers not trying to strike that balance is perplexing. 

[TerryB]

Most of the new Challenger drivers have gray/white hair.  A chance to relive their past.  I would be in that crowd if In were shopping for a retro ride. Note how the Ford electric EV truck doesn’t wander far from the gas version in looks.  And there’s Tesla with its Cyber truck design, no historical reference to worry about there!

[30DodgePanel]

I don't know, I can think of one historical reference

 

 

[1939_Buick]

In my part of the world (Australia - New Zealand) do not get many big USA style pickup trucks, with big diesel engines.  Get a few that are converted to right hand drive

 

Biggest seller is Ford Ranger ute (made in Thailand). Only crew cab - 4 door.  Sells more numbers than any car.

https://www.ford.com.au/commercial/ranger/

New model coming for 2022-->https://www.ford.com.au/showroom/future-vehicle/next-gen-ranger

 

And

https://www.toyota.com.au/hilux (made Thailand) Is hard to find a 2 door flat deck ute, but are sold

https://www.mazda.com.au/cars/bt-50/  (made in Thailand) Same as Ford Ranger for some years

https://www.mitsubishi-motors.com.au/vehicles/triton.htm

 

And https://www.ramtrucks.com.au/

 

RIP the Ford Falcon ute and Holden Commodore ute, based on rear wheel drive sedans (6 & 8 cylinder engines)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holden_Ute

 

 

Edited March 27, 2022 by 1939_Buick (see edit history)

[1912Staver]

3macboys , $35,000 ? choke , gasp !!  That's about what I earned last year in after tax $. { retired }

  My M100 was $2,200.00 in 1966 . A Ford Falcon was $2,000.00  The last Ford Focus had a base price of $18,000.00 a couple of years ago. Fords modern stand in for a Falcon. To be apples to apples the F 150 would have to be closer to $20,000.00 to be in the same ballpark as basic trucks compared to what basic cars were years ago.

 My first almost new { less than 10 months old } car was $10,000.00 in 2010. still driving it , nearly 300,000 K's. A brand new one was a few thousand more but no dealer in my area had a new 5 speed in stock. And I sure wasn't going to be saddled with a auto. I needed a car and took the one I could drive away in that day . Haven't regretted it for a moment. I would have bought a new one but could not possibly wait 4 - 6 weeks for one to be ordered in.

Edited March 27, 2022 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[TerryB]

1 hour ago, 30DodgePanel said:

I don't know, I can think of one historical reference

 

 

Actually I have the historical reference in t-shirt form thanks to my Tesla connections.

 

[zipdang]

Please give me a small truck with a decent bed and just two doors. Please.

[Pfeil]

1 hour ago, zipdang said:

Please give me a small truck with a decent bed and just two doors. Please.

They USED to make them.

It seems product planning and marketing people don't talk to the public anymore.

[1912Staver]

Actually my M 100 wasn't all that big either. Yes , bigger than a Datsun 620, but compared to a modern ,4 door, diesel , full size,, small and light weight. Mine never looked this nice. I bought it in 1986. A good original 20 year old truck but even when I bought it new paint wouldn't have hurt. Same colors as this one.

 

 

Edited March 28, 2022 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[8E45E]

10 hours ago, zipdang said:

Please give me a small truck with a decent bed and just two doors. Please.

https://www.hemmings.com/stories/article/1964-international-harvester-c-900

 

Craig

[8E45E]

16 hours ago, 30DodgePanel said:

Surely there has to be a certain percentage that are buying because of the name Maverick alone while others are buying simply because it's new to market. Furthermore, I would imagine a small percentage of them are too young to even know what the Maverick of the 70s was, and probably a great majority of those (if they knew the old Maverick) probably wouldn't have bought the new Maverick (possibly, who knows..). 

The compact Falcon replacement Maverick never had a following of any kind that the Mustang did, and no one lamented its demise at the end of the 1977 model year.  The Maverick name was used in Europe and Australia on re-badged Nissan SUV's and the Ford Escapes from the late '80's to the mid-2000's.

 

Craig